nickbroken
Total Posts: 123
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11-22-19 08:41 PM - Post#890657
So I have a bit of workout ocd and really struggle keeping to a set routine and I wonder how much this is "hurting" fitness levels that I could be gaining? Say like one day I will do nothing but loaded carried for maybe 20-30 mins lower weight of course, next workout day 5-7 rounds of humane burpees, next workout day push-ups and carries, etc. I know that something is better than nothing, but would I get more out of doing a set routine for a few months than this ocd training?
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Silverback61
Total Posts: 1834
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You sound like a great candidate for Conjugate Training, it allows you to be consistently inconsistent.
It Is Better To Be Stronger Than You Look, Than Look Stronger Than You Are
My Weights Are In Freedom Units
DEADLIFTS RULE!!
=[[[[[[--------]]]]]]= |
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Chris Rice
Total Posts: 702
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11-22-19 11:23 PM - Post#890659
Any particular goals you want? If all you're looking for is some overall fitness - this looks OK
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Dan John
Total Posts: 12292
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11-23-19 01:10 AM - Post#890661
Good point: whaaaduyouwant?
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...
Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you |
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nickbroken
Total Posts: 123
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11-23-19 06:33 AM - Post#890664
Oh I just do it for general fitness if I had any serious goals is most likely move to a barbell, but general fitness is all I am really after and the ability to move well as I age.
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BntLgr
Total Posts: 403
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11-23-19 08:43 AM - Post#890665
With the others. If you're getting your HR up and loading the spine/muscle structures with some weight, you will most likely gain from being stasis. Maybe not to your specific optimum level, by a more strict set up, but still gain anyway.
Is there a way to track your progress?
Example: on your loaded carries do you perhaps increase the distance or a bit of the weight each time or every other time out?
| Be yourself. Everyone else is taken |
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Jake Steinmann
Total Posts: 313
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You sound like a great candidate for Conjugate Training, it allows you to be consistently inconsistent.
In that vein, you might check out some of Ross Enamait’s material. He’s got a couple of books that include training templates based around this idea.
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Silverback61
Total Posts: 1834
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11-23-19 09:33 AM - Post#890669
Also... You NEED to have goals.
It Is Better To Be Stronger Than You Look, Than Look Stronger Than You Are
My Weights Are In Freedom Units
DEADLIFTS RULE!!
=[[[[[[--------]]]]]]= |
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Old Miler
Total Posts: 1744
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11-23-19 09:42 AM - Post#890671
Do you have any fitness 'tests' you measure yourself by?
My track coach and squad would do an evening of test 3-4 times per year. Dan has suggested plenty of gym ones. And cardio is easy to test, just run a 5k or a mile or something.
Anyway, if you're getting fitter or at least measurably not declining, nothing wrong with what you are doing, it seems to me!
(Personally, I know my cardio is down, but I'm planning on doing a few strength and agility tests with my son between Christmas and New Year, and hoping it will be more respectable than the last 2 years. That plus a Christmas parkrun will tell me where I am....
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Jake Steinmann
Total Posts: 313
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11-23-19 09:52 AM - Post#890672
Also... You NEED to have goals.
Why?
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Silverback61
Total Posts: 1834
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11-23-19 10:07 AM - Post#890673
Also... You NEED to have goals.
Why?
Anyone that asks this question would never understand the answer.
It Is Better To Be Stronger Than You Look, Than Look Stronger Than You Are
My Weights Are In Freedom Units
DEADLIFTS RULE!!
=[[[[[[--------]]]]]]= |
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Jake Steinmann
Total Posts: 313
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11-23-19 10:17 AM - Post#890674
Also... You NEED to have goals.
Why?
Anyone that asks this question would never understand the answer.
If you say so, I guess. Thanks for the thoughtful conversation
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Steve Rogers
Total Posts: 6158
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11-23-19 11:03 AM - Post#890677
Some are more goal oriented than others. Some will automatically set goals, others won't automatically seek goals but find they help motivation, and some may find them irrelevant.
| "Coyote is always waiting, and Coyote is always hungry." |
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nickbroken
Total Posts: 123
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11-23-19 11:09 AM - Post#890678
For things like loaded carry I increase the distance as able I don't time it I just kinda walk with whichever carry I choose until my grip fails and note the distance or how many times back and forth I get.
Testing myself not so much I'm building myself right now and haven't gotten to the test part yet so much as ok I feel good I busted out all my sets now can I do another 40 swings? That's the only testing I do.
Goals with fitness is something that I have difficulty without a barbell. I only have a 24 and 32 kg kettlebell so I took around with them. The last goal I met was the simple standard, Infact it was the last program that I completed. Will honestly say I wish I didn't waste the time on it as I find that it did nothing for my cardio/endurance really. I find that I get more from just out busting out max rep swings.
Goals I guess I want to be able to hike for hours. I've never been a runner so to be able to walk for 10 hours, so work capacity is my goal. It's not very specific I'm sorry. With the tools that I have I am not sure of what I should be shooting for goalwise. 10k swings isn't an option because I like to be able to walk the next day.
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Steve Rogers
Total Posts: 6158
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11-23-19 11:11 AM - Post#890679
Oh I just do it for general fitness if I had any serious goals is most likely move to a barbell, but general fitness is all I am really after and the ability to move well as I age.
General fitness and ability to move well are worthy goals and for these things frequent changes shouldn't hurt. If you feel a need for more structure you might try rotating through A, B, C workouts where A is strength focused, B is conditioning focused and C is mobility focused.
| "Coyote is always waiting, and Coyote is always hungry." |
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vegpedlr
Total Posts: 1179
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11-23-19 11:44 AM - Post#890682
If you don’t have specific performance goals, then it doesn’t really matter does it? The goal then is to exercise.
“Exercise” has tremendous power for health and longevity, and performance goals do not factor in.
Enjoy your variety, and if and when a specific goal becomes interesting, choose an appropriate program and get it done.
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nickbroken
Total Posts: 123
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11-23-19 11:51 AM - Post#890683
If you don’t have specific performance goals, then it doesn’t really matter does it? The goal then is to exercise.
“Exercise” has tremendous power for health and longevity, and performance goals do not factor in.
Enjoy your variety, and if and when a specific goal becomes interesting, choose an appropriate program and get it done.
Yeah that's kinda what I have been doing, I was just wondering if I can squeeze more with a program. I kinda feel like kettlebells see a bottleneck as they aren't great for much other than swings, carries, and presses. So generally any routine is just going to be a variation of these.
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DanMartin
Total Posts: 20705
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The only thing I can add is that my best gains, whether it be strength, fitness or conditioning came from stable 12-16 week blocks of following the same routine day in, day out.
Initially I would "tweak" the routine and always thinking if I added more I would get more. Well, that never worked out.
When I wanted to be brutally strong and 70's big it was three days a week lifting and three days of minimal jogging.
When it was time to be Disco ready I'd run 5-6 days a week and do some dips and chins the "off days."
Conditioning was no more than doing some sprints and dropping the dips and chins along with adding the Bill Starr "Big Three."
You will find that very few writers will suggest less as a matter of course. Rather you will find more of more and then the following month the same writer will offer reasons for even more still.
And you will just be in the same rut...
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Silverback61
Total Posts: 1834
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11-23-19 12:00 PM - Post#890685
Yeah that's kinda what I have been doing, I was just wondering if I can squeeze more with a program. I kinda feel like kettlebells see a bottleneck as they aren't great for much other than swings, carries, and presses. So generally any routine is just going to be a variation of these.
Try some Double Kettlebell Front Squats and Snatches and let us know what you think.
It Is Better To Be Stronger Than You Look, Than Look Stronger Than You Are
My Weights Are In Freedom Units
DEADLIFTS RULE!!
=[[[[[[--------]]]]]]= |
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DanMartin
Total Posts: 20705
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11-23-19 12:45 PM - Post#890687
Yeah that's kinda what I have been doing, I was just wondering if I can squeeze more with a program. I kinda feel like kettlebells see a bottleneck as they aren't great for much other than swings, carries, and presses. So generally any routine is just going to be a variation of these.
Try some Double Kettlebell Front Squats and Snatches and let us know what you think.
Wow...
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iPood
Total Posts: 2360
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Also... You NEED to have goals.
I disagree.
As someone who embraced the park bench philosophy many, many, many moons ago, I've been training goallessly for a few years now.
The closest thing to a "goal" I have now is "try to train more often than not" and "have fun". Which is unclear on purpose and doesn't necessarily mean to lift loads of even follow a program.
Don't get me wrong, having goals is nice and makes easier to get from here to there, but I don't think they should be mandatory.
"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness
and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums.
It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable.
Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow.
Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't."
Dan Martin |
Edited by iPood on 11-23-19 01:58 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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mprevost
Total Posts: 816
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11-23-19 01:02 PM - Post#890689
1. More consistency = more SPECIFIC gains
2. More variety = more transfer to a wider range of activities
#1 above works well with specific performance goals. #2 above works well with more process goals (enjoyment, not missing workouts).
This is the park bench VS bus bench discussion.
www.mikeprevost.com
"The quality of movement, I think, trumps load...unless it is a contest about load." Dan John |
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Jake Steinmann
Total Posts: 313
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Edited by Jake Steinmann on 11-23-19 01:25 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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BntLgr
Total Posts: 403
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11-23-19 01:57 PM - Post#890693
Actually, I guess in a way, not having any specific goals, is sort of having a goal, right!?
I mean, one can just make it the goal, that they go in the gym and do some stuff more or less daily.
| Be yourself. Everyone else is taken |
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nickbroken
Total Posts: 123
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11-23-19 01:58 PM - Post#890694
Training with no goal aka Zen training. Time to patent and market it.
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iPood
Total Posts: 2360
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11-23-19 01:58 PM - Post#890695
1. More consistency = more SPECIFIC gains
2. More variety = more transfer to a wider range of activities
#1 above works well with specific performance goals. #2 above works well with more process goals (enjoyment, not missing workouts).
This is the park bench VS bus bench discussion.
This!
"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness
and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums.
It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable.
Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow.
Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't."
Dan Martin |
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Chris Rice
Total Posts: 702
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All of my life I have trained "to be ready". Ready for whatever came along really. I have had periods where I had competition goals - be that Power Lifting, Olympic Lifting, Triathlons - rock or mountain climbing etc and specialized for that. But in general I have embraced more variety than most people in my training. I always wanted to be able to do a strength comp one weekend - run a 5K the next - do a Highland Games - climb a mountain the following week etc. Now did this keep me from achieving my absolute top potential in any one thing - probably - but that was OK by me. I seemed to make the podium more often than not anyway.
By the way - this Was my goal.
Edited by Chris Rice on 11-23-19 05:48 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Silverback61
Total Posts: 1834
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Also... You NEED to have goals.
I disagree.
As someone who embraced the park bench philosophy many, many, many moons ago, I've been training goallessly for a few years now.
The closest thing to a "goal" I have now is "try to train more often than not" and "have fun". Which is unclear on purpose and doesn't necessarily mean to lift loads of even follow a program.
Don't get me wrong, having goals is nice and makes easier to get from here to there, but I don't think they should be mandatory.
We will have to agree to disagree. All successful people set goals and go after them.
People that just want to doink around usually just end up chasing their tails.
Stay Strong!!
It Is Better To Be Stronger Than You Look, Than Look Stronger Than You Are
My Weights Are In Freedom Units
DEADLIFTS RULE!!
=[[[[[[--------]]]]]]= |
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RupertC
Total Posts: 1479
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Also... You NEED to have goals.
I disagree.
As someone who embraced the park bench philosophy many, many, many moons ago, I've been training goallessly for a few years now.
The closest thing to a "goal" I have now is "try to train more often than not" and "have fun". Which is unclear on purpose and doesn't necessarily mean to lift loads of even follow a program.
Don't get me wrong, having goals is nice and makes easier to get from here to there, but I don't think they should be mandatory.
We will have to agree to disagree. All successful people set goals and go after them.
People that just want to doink around usually just end up chasing their tails.
Stay Strong!!
There are more than 300 dead bodies on Mount Everest. I can guarantee you that pretty much every single one used to belong to somebody who was deeply committed to a simple goal like "Climb Everest!" On the other hand, people who set more sensible goals often get better results. Something like this, for example: "Get back from Everest in once piece after climbing as high as I can get safely."
Once you start thinking about goals in that way, you will see that "enjoy varied strength training three times a week for the rest of my life" actually make perfect sense. Chasing arbitrary numbers might make sense if you are a top powerlifter, but it can also set the rest of us up for injury and pain.
If you want to do some more reading on this, look up process-orientated goals. There is lots of material on Google.
| Check out my critical-thinking blog at sharpenyouraxe.substack.com |
Edited by RupertC on 11-23-19 07:16 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Andy Mitchell
Total Posts: 5269
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11-23-19 07:30 PM - Post#890708
i believe we are all driven by some sort of goal whether we like it or not.
In terms of exercise I think that if you’re enjoying the benefits of whatever you do and not getting hurt then that is fantastic
Regardless of whether you are playing football, powerlifting or just living life.
I remember Dr Ken stating that if it was soundly proven without a shadow of doubt that an a abbreviated hard training session was not as effective as its counterparts he’d still stick with hard training because he valued efficient safe exercise (although he was a risk taker) but would test himself occasionally which is the only way one learns.
What I do know now is that everyone is built differently, mentally and physically.
Results matter
Nice legs-shame about the face
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Silverback61
Total Posts: 1834
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It sounds like a lot of people here are just looking for Participation Ribbons. 
It Is Better To Be Stronger Than You Look, Than Look Stronger Than You Are
My Weights Are In Freedom Units
DEADLIFTS RULE!!
=[[[[[[--------]]]]]]= |
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Andy Mitchell
Total Posts: 5269
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11-23-19 07:38 PM - Post#890710
Actually, I believe all successful trainees possess a level of OCD, doesn’t always translate well to life but in exercise it can be great.
Nice legs-shame about the face
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Silverback61
Total Posts: 1834
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11-23-19 07:44 PM - Post#890711
Actually, I believe all successful trainees possess a level of OCD, doesn’t always translate well to life but in exercise it can be great.
I agree. I like to push myself. Once a Marine, always a Marine.
It Is Better To Be Stronger Than You Look, Than Look Stronger Than You Are
My Weights Are In Freedom Units
DEADLIFTS RULE!!
=[[[[[[--------]]]]]]= |
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nickbroken
Total Posts: 123
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11-23-19 08:13 PM - Post#890712
Ah no ribbon needed here, maybe some cookies or other scrumptious carb related delicacies that I should be avoiding.
I think more I am just wondering if I should find a "real program" or not. In the kettlebell world there aren't a whole lot of long term programs that I can think of outside of Pavel's stuff and few others. Maybe I need to do more reading.
I challenge myself from time to time. Other day I did 150 swings in 5ish mins 1handed. It's not a lot but a year ago I couldn't do it so I am proud. Sometimes I push myself and it's too much do I back off for a bit then come back just as strong to be decrepit. Hell I remember sessions 8 months ago where I would be unable to complete and just broken down and unable to move, questioning why I was doing this to myself. I love this forum and have read it for a long time because there is such a wealth of knowledge and it is so organic, unlike other forums which are more sycophantic. There are some great routines I see on her. Armor building is amazing, the humane burpees is *chef kiss*, loaded carries should be taught in PE at a young age. Maybe I am just trying to figure out put it all together in something long term.
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Silverback61
Total Posts: 1834
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11-23-19 08:46 PM - Post#890720
Ah no ribbon needed here, maybe some cookies or other scrumptious carb related delicacies that I should be avoiding.
I think more I am just wondering if I should find a "real program" or not. In the kettlebell world there aren't a whole lot of long term programs that I can think of outside of Pavel's stuff and few others. Maybe I need to do more reading.
I challenge myself from time to time. Other day I did 150 swings in 5ish mins 1handed. It's not a lot but a year ago I couldn't do it so I am proud. Sometimes I push myself and it's too much do I back off for a bit then come back just as strong to be decrepit. Hell I remember sessions 8 months ago where I would be unable to complete and just broken down and unable to move, questioning why I was doing this to myself. I love this forum and have read it for a long time because there is such a wealth of knowledge and it is so organic, unlike other forums which are more sycophantic. There are some great routines I see on her. Armor building is amazing, the humane burpees is *chef kiss*, loaded carries should be taught in PE at a young age. Maybe I am just trying to figure out put it all together in something long term.
Keep grinding brother, you'll get there.
It Is Better To Be Stronger Than You Look, Than Look Stronger Than You Are
My Weights Are In Freedom Units
DEADLIFTS RULE!!
=[[[[[[--------]]]]]]= |
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Old Miler
Total Posts: 1744
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11-24-19 03:00 PM - Post#890737
Why not just sign up for https://www.danjohnworkouts.com/ ?
Most of the time, you can use Dan's Park Bench workout generator on his workout site. You can input your equipment and it spits out a recommendation for a workout. This will "always be different". It's even got nice printouts now that you can take to the gym and fill in to "keep on plan" ;-)
And then maybe 3-4 times you can pick one of the 'bus bench' programs.
Keep it up for 2020 and tell us how it goes!
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Jake Steinmann
Total Posts: 313
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11-24-19 03:35 PM - Post#890740
Ah no ribbon needed here, maybe some cookies or other scrumptious carb related delicacies that I should be avoiding.
I think more I am just wondering if I should find a "real program" or not. In the kettlebell world there aren't a whole lot of long term programs that I can think of outside of Pavel's stuff and few others. Maybe I need to do more reading.
I challenge myself from time to time. Other day I did 150 swings in 5ish mins 1handed. It's not a lot but a year ago I couldn't do it so I am proud. Sometimes I push myself and it's too much do I back off for a bit then come back just as strong to be decrepit. Hell I remember sessions 8 months ago where I would be unable to complete and just broken down and unable to move, questioning why I was doing this to myself. I love this forum and have read it for a long time because there is such a wealth of knowledge and it is so organic, unlike other forums which are more sycophantic. There are some great routines I see on her. Armor building is amazing, the humane burpees is *chef kiss*, loaded carries should be taught in PE at a young age. Maybe I am just trying to figure out put it all together in something long term.
Define “long term”
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nickbroken
Total Posts: 123
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11-24-19 07:07 PM - Post#890743
Ah no ribbon needed here, maybe some cookies or other scrumptious carb related delicacies that I should be avoiding.
I think more I am just wondering if I should find a "real program" or not. In the kettlebell world there aren't a whole lot of long term programs that I can think of outside of Pavel's stuff and few others. Maybe I need to do more reading.
I challenge myself from time to time. Other day I did 150 swings in 5ish mins 1handed. It's not a lot but a year ago I couldn't do it so I am proud. Sometimes I push myself and it's too much do I back off for a bit then come back just as strong to be decrepit. Hell I remember sessions 8 months ago where I would be unable to complete and just broken down and unable to move, questioning why I was doing this to myself. I love this forum and have read it for a long time because there is such a wealth of knowledge and it is so organic, unlike other forums which are more sycophantic. There are some great routines I see on her. Armor building is amazing, the humane burpees is *chef kiss*, loaded carries should be taught in PE at a young age. Maybe I am just trying to figure out put it all together in something long term.
Define “long term”
year or two I dunno I like routine.
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Silverback61
Total Posts: 1834
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11-24-19 08:27 PM - Post#890746
Ah no ribbon needed here, maybe some cookies or other scrumptious carb related delicacies that I should be avoiding.
I think more I am just wondering if I should find a "real program" or not. In the kettlebell world there aren't a whole lot of long term programs that I can think of outside of Pavel's stuff and few others. Maybe I need to do more reading.
I challenge myself from time to time. Other day I did 150 swings in 5ish mins 1handed. It's not a lot but a year ago I couldn't do it so I am proud. Sometimes I push myself and it's too much do I back off for a bit then come back just as strong to be decrepit. Hell I remember sessions 8 months ago where I would be unable to complete and just broken down and unable to move, questioning why I was doing this to myself. I love this forum and have read it for a long time because there is such a wealth of knowledge and it is so organic, unlike other forums which are more sycophantic. There are some great routines I see on her. Armor building is amazing, the humane burpees is *chef kiss*, loaded carries should be taught in PE at a young age. Maybe I am just trying to figure out put it all together in something long term.
Define “long term”
year or two I dunno I like routine.
Lol... In your first post that started this thread you said...
"So I have a bit of workout ocd and really struggle keeping to a set routine"
It Is Better To Be Stronger Than You Look, Than Look Stronger Than You Are
My Weights Are In Freedom Units
DEADLIFTS RULE!!
=[[[[[[--------]]]]]]= |
|
nickbroken
Total Posts: 123
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11-24-19 09:11 PM - Post#890748
Ah no ribbon needed here, maybe some cookies or other scrumptious carb related delicacies that I should be avoiding.
I think more I am just wondering if I should find a "real program" or not. In the kettlebell world there aren't a whole lot of long term programs that I can think of outside of Pavel's stuff and few others. Maybe I need to do more reading.
I challenge myself from time to time. Other day I did 150 swings in 5ish mins 1handed. It's not a lot but a year ago I couldn't do it so I am proud. Sometimes I push myself and it's too much do I back off for a bit then come back just as strong to be decrepit. Hell I remember sessions 8 months ago where I would be unable to complete and just broken down and unable to move, questioning why I was doing this to myself. I love this forum and have read it for a long time because there is such a wealth of knowledge and it is so organic, unlike other forums which are more sycophantic. There are some great routines I see on her. Armor building is amazing, the humane burpees is *chef kiss*, loaded carries should be taught in PE at a young age. Maybe I am just trying to figure out put it all together in something long term.
Define “long term”
year or two I dunno I like routine.
Lol... In your first post that started this thread you said...
"So I have a bit of workout ocd and really struggle keeping to a set routine"
I like it I didn't say that I was good at it lol. I followed S&S to a tea but after 6ish months k felt like I was wasting my time.
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Browser
Total Posts: 507
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11-25-19 08:31 AM - Post#890756
The sooner you learn to 'program' for yourself the better off you will be.
"The trouble about always trying to preserve the health of the body is that it is so difficult to do without destroying the health of the mind."~GK Chesterton
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Jake Steinmann
Total Posts: 313
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11-25-19 08:27 PM - Post#890776
[
I like it I didn't say that I was good at it lol. I followed S&S to a tea but after 6ish months k felt like I was wasting my time.
Why did you think you were wasting your time on S&S?
I'll reiterate...I think you might benefit from something like Ross Enamait's Infinite Intensity. It's a dumbbell based program, but translates easily to kettlebell work. It includes a 50 day template, but you can repeat those 50 days ad nauseum. I did for a long time, and had decent results.
Tom Furman has this program, which has similar rotating workout schedule.
https://medium.com/@physicalstrategies/t he-garage-workout-415d1ac 61953
Food for thought.
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nickbroken
Total Posts: 123
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11-26-19 01:24 PM - Post#890794
[
I like it I didn't say that I was good at it lol. I followed S&S to a tea but after 6ish months k felt like I was wasting my time.
Why did you think you were wasting your time on S&S?
I'll reiterate...I think you might benefit from something like Ross Enamait's Infinite Intensity. It's a dumbbell based program, but translates easily to kettlebell work. It includes a 50 day template, but you can repeat those 50 days ad nauseum. I did for a long time, and had decent results.
Tom Furman has this program, which has similar rotating workout schedule.
https://medium.com/@physicalstrategies/t he-garage-workout-415d1ac 61953
Food for thought.
I feel like S&S is an amazing introduction to kettlebells, but outside of that I don't believe it is a great program. Did I get stronger? Sure, but I feel like a kettlebell isn't the best tool if you want strength, hell if I had the room is have a barbell and 300 pounds in weight and I feel that would serve better for strength.
I will check out that program that you mentioned.
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12bernd
Total Posts: 176
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You could check out Mike Prevost's free "Escape from the Gym" ebook. 100 workouts that can be done with Kbs, a pull up bar and some tubing.
https://www.davedraper.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/36578/
Or you could simply alternate "strength" and "endurance" days. Do KB grinds and calisthenics on your "strength" day. And KB quick lifts and/or loaded carries with jogging for active recovery for your endurance day. Maybe get a lighter KB to practice snatches. Simple and with no goals and limited equipment it should keep you in decent shape.
Edited by 12bernd on 11-26-19 01:50 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Walter J.
Total Posts: 1535
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12-01-19 12:38 PM - Post#890903
Nickbroken, depending on your goals it comes down to. Lol, I just reread that and it sounds like a Yodaism.
If you want all-around capability you are actually hindering yourself if you become too goal oriented and focus on one thing. You can become a great power lifter, Olympic lifter, shot-putter, endurance athlete, horse jockey, etc. But that’s your specialty and if you’ve the right genetics, coaching, in the right age bracket, etc. you can dominate (for a very short while) in that endeavor.
Big whoop! (Translated: so big deal, whoop-dee-do-good-for-you ). Sure It’s impressive to the rest of us who aspire to be there on that same podium but do to many factors will never stand on that podium.
But if you want everyday, work-or-play, survive-and-thrive, improvise-and-adaptabilit y you need variety. When the chips are down you don’t need some Twinkie-specialist on your team. You need someone who can think and act quickly to any given situation. And that capability does not come from specializing in one area of competition.
I come from the world of general labor and a multiple of sports and outdoor activities and I cannot tell you how many times I’ve seen guys who were great at one particular sport, but when it came time to actual work, they couldn’t handle a tough job. They could run a 26 mile marathon but couldn’t handle digging in a ditch all day long. Or some guy specializing in some strength sport but was wheezing at the end of unloading two-three wagon loads of hay back-to-back.
I’ve seen the same thing when it comes to someone who trains and competes in one sport and then a bunch of guys get together to play some pick-up game of some other sport the dude has never played. They usually put in a very poor showing, lol.
What is it, Quadrant 1, a lot of qualities or skills at a low level? And Q2 is a lot of qualities or skills at a high level? This from Dan John and the four Quadrants.
Q1 is (or used to be) kids in school who played a lot of different sports, learned to swim, climb, wrestle, run, sprint, jump, etc. They learned all the rules and skills to a low degree. Q2 is the same except at a very high level: i.e. NFL, Navy SEALS, etc. Which very few people fit into that category but many aspire to.
So, what you are essentially trying to do is take your Q1 skills and slowly ramp them up. Sad to say, many people actually do not even have or never fit in to Q1. This SHOULD be the base for EVERYONE. Even the aging person who never did anything in their life. Help them learn a lot of low level skills and then go from there. Why are you trying to convince them to become a power lifter, KB specialist, endurance athlete (because that’s the Koolaide YOU drink) if they can’t even balance on one leg, crawl or do a decent set of pushups or catch a ball? But that’s just how I look at it.
Moving on, everything is on a sliding scale. Grade school skills, abilities, strengths, etc. are low but many. But by the time that child reaches his senior year, if he hasn’t erroneously started specializing, his capabilities have increased exponentially. Yes, due in part to growing physically but also because of another handful of years or so of continued exposure to developing all of these skills.
It’s the same in Q2, don’t kid yourself. There is an entry level, a bare minimum to qualify to enter the lower levels of the elite in multi-skilled sports, and vocations. You are the rookie. Then a person continues to progress, honing their skills in a MULTITUDE of disciplines. It is actually very much the same when it comes to working certain physical jobs and operating various types of tools, power-tools and machinery. You can learn to become more adept with the tools of multiple trades.
So the takeaway is there IS a scaling of the level of capability throughout Q1 and Q2. If you are playing in this area, understanding this fact can help you gradually see the path through and begin to explore and thrive in this side of the four Quadrants.
If you disagree, that’s cool, no sweat just stay in your Q3 comfortable little spot and dream of Q4, and leave us alone who know what we’re doing in Q1-Q2, lol.
That’s just MY perspective on this as a life-long dweller of multiple skills capability. IT has stood me well in my life and continues to keep me in the game. I’ll hit 58 in a few months, so I do have a little bit of experience here, having started lifting rocks when I was 10 years old. My older brother was about 15 at that time and got interested in strength and brought home books on self-defense, Judo, calisthenics and weight training and I would read them all and try everything I could get my hands on through the years.
I could write a book or three on all of this, lol.
So yeah, Nickbroken, if your goal is to get good, very good or attempt to dominate some sport, pick your poison and then drink it. It’s your choice.
If your goal is to be MacGyver strong and capable, having an ability to improvise, adapt and overcome, variety is the key. Explore it, experiment with it and dive in deep. You will surprise yourself in a few years at what you can do and actually how well you can keep up with others who specialize in things. You can often surprise them even in their own field of expertise. Can you beat them? Yes, if you play YOUR game and not theirs, lol. Your game has no set rules or regulations, theirs does. Make them play on YOUR turf and you will dominate.
I have found that every week as I rotate common training methods/exercises and also constantly change things up and/or experiment with new ideas I ALWAYS cover the basic human movements in my training. I dare say it’s the specialists who are always needing to go to some PT to fix some issue they have in their training. The ver-rye-it-tist (didn’t know how to spell this, lol, so I spelled it phonetically) or perhaps I should say generalist, has no issues because he is always covering everything weekly or monthly in his training.
Anyway, enough of my long-winded post. Some may laugh and poke at it or maybe even get angry, lol. Though my intent is not to anger anyone. Others may sit there reading this, nodding their heads in agreement with what I posted.
Regardless, there are many paths to follow in training. Just because you are including a lot of variety in your training does not mean you are merely “exercising for exercise sake” or “working out”. Those are buzz-words coined by those with something to sell or those too insecure to buck the current fitness trends and want to appear knowledgeable.
Some people want to argue about the three avenues of scientifically explaining work-capacity. I could care less. Go hang with some worker chopping dead trees down in the woods, limbing the logs, bucking them, dragging them out through the mud or snow and loading up his truck to drive home and split the wood by hand and if you can do that all day and continue to work like that for a handful of months, then you’ll really understand work-capacity. Look back at the old time lifters, they were very capable and well-rounded athletes, not one-trick ponies.
Sure, those buzz-words can and do apply to many people who mindlessly exercise, but tell that to some Q4 athlete or high-level Q1 person who knows what they are doing and they will just smile. Because the person trying to argue with you that “you’re just working out. I’m the one who’s really training because I’m working toward the goal to compete in (fill in the blank) and you don’t have any real goal” doesn’t have a clue. Smile, nod our head, don’t argue and just say; “It’s all good Grasshopper.”
JMHO, lol.
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DanMartin
Total Posts: 20705
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12-01-19 02:45 PM - Post#890908
I dwell in the Fifth Quadrant,
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Neander
Total Posts: 7755
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It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition,
and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge . . .
Life's too short to worry about longevity.
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Edited by Neander on 12-01-19 03:17 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Chris Rice
Total Posts: 702
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Nickbroken, depending on your goals it comes down to. Lol, I just reread that and it sounds like a Yodaism.
If you want all-around capability you are actually hindering yourself if you become too goal oriented and focus on one thing. You can become a great power lifter, Olympic lifter, shot-putter, endurance athlete, horse jockey, etc. But that’s your specialty and if you’ve the right genetics, coaching, in the right age bracket, etc. you can dominate (for a very short while) in that endeavor.
Big whoop! (Translated: so big deal, whoop-dee-do-good-for-you ). Sure It’s impressive to the rest of us who aspire to be there on that same podium but do to many factors will never stand on that podium.
But if you want everyday, work-or-play, survive-and-thrive, improvise-and-adaptabilit y you need variety. When the chips are down you don’t need some Twinkie-specialist on your team. You need someone who can think and act quickly to any given situation. And that capability does not come from specializing in one area of competition.
I come from the world of general labor and a multiple of sports and outdoor activities and I cannot tell you how many times I’ve seen guys who were great at one particular sport, but when it came time to actual work, they couldn’t handle a tough job. They could run a 26 mile marathon but couldn’t handle digging in a ditch all day long. Or some guy specializing in some strength sport but was wheezing at the end of unloading two-three wagon loads of hay back-to-back.
I’ve seen the same thing when it comes to someone who trains and competes in one sport and then a bunch of guys get together to play some pick-up game of some other sport the dude has never played. They usually put in a very poor showing, lol.
What is it, Quadrant 1, a lot of qualities or skills at a low level? And Q2 is a lot of qualities or skills at a high level? This from Dan John and the four Quadrants.
Q1 is (or used to be) kids in school who played a lot of different sports, learned to swim, climb, wrestle, run, sprint, jump, etc. They learned all the rules and skills to a low degree. Q2 is the same except at a very high level: i.e. NFL, Navy SEALS, etc. Which very few people fit into that category but many aspire to.
So, what you are essentially trying to do is take your Q1 skills and slowly ramp them up. Sad to say, many people actually do not even have or never fit in to Q1. This SHOULD be the base for EVERYONE. Even the aging person who never did anything in their life. Help them learn a lot of low level skills and then go from there. Why are you trying to convince them to become a power lifter, KB specialist, endurance athlete (because that’s the Koolaide YOU drink) if they can’t even balance on one leg, crawl or do a decent set of pushups or catch a ball? But that’s just how I look at it.
Moving on, everything is on a sliding scale. Grade school skills, abilities, strengths, etc. are low but many. But by the time that child reaches his senior year, if he hasn’t erroneously started specializing, his capabilities have increased exponentially. Yes, due in part to growing physically but also because of another handful of years or so of continued exposure to developing all of these skills.
It’s the same in Q2, don’t kid yourself. There is an entry level, a bare minimum to qualify to enter the lower levels of the elite in multi-skilled sports, and vocations. You are the rookie. Then a person continues to progress, honing their skills in a MULTITUDE of disciplines. It is actually very much the same when it comes to working certain physical jobs and operating various types of tools, power-tools and machinery. You can learn to become more adept with the tools of multiple trades.
So the takeaway is there IS a scaling of the level of capability throughout Q1 and Q2. If you are playing in this area, understanding this fact can help you gradually see the path through and begin to explore and thrive in this side of the four Quadrants.
If you disagree, that’s cool, no sweat just stay in your Q3 comfortable little spot and dream of Q4, and leave us alone who know what we’re doing in Q1-Q2, lol.
That’s just MY perspective on this as a life-long dweller of multiple skills capability. IT has stood me well in my life and continues to keep me in the game. I’ll hit 58 in a few months, so I do have a little bit of experience here, having started lifting rocks when I was 10 years old. My older brother was about 15 at that time and got interested in strength and brought home books on self-defense, Judo, calisthenics and weight training and I would read them all and try everything I could get my hands on through the years.
I could write a book or three on all of this, lol.
So yeah, Nickbroken, if your goal is to get good, very good or attempt to dominate some sport, pick your poison and then drink it. It’s your choice.
If your goal is to be MacGyver strong and capable, having an ability to improvise, adapt and overcome, variety is the key. Explore it, experiment with it and dive in deep. You will surprise yourself in a few years at what you can do and actually how well you can keep up with others who specialize in things. You can often surprise them even in their own field of expertise. Can you beat them? Yes, if you play YOUR game and not theirs, lol. Your game has no set rules or regulations, theirs does. Make them play on YOUR turf and you will dominate.
I have found that every week as I rotate common training methods/exercises and also constantly change things up and/or experiment with new ideas I ALWAYS cover the basic human movements in my training. I dare say it’s the specialists who are always needing to go to some PT to fix some issue they have in their training. The ver-rye-it-tist (didn’t know how to spell this, lol, so I spelled it phonetically) or perhaps I should say generalist, has no issues because he is always covering everything weekly or monthly in his training.
Anyway, enough of my long-winded post. Some may laugh and poke at it or maybe even get angry, lol. Though my intent is not to anger anyone. Others may sit there reading this, nodding their heads in agreement with what I posted.
Regardless, there are many paths to follow in training. Just because you are including a lot of variety in your training does not mean you are merely “exercising for exercise sake” or “working out”. Those are buzz-words coined by those with something to sell or those too insecure to buck the current fitness trends and want to appear knowledgeable.
Some people want to argue about the three avenues of scientifically explaining work-capacity. I could care less. Go hang with some worker chopping dead trees down in the woods, limbing the logs, bucking them, dragging them out through the mud or snow and loading up his truck to drive home and split the wood by hand and if you can do that all day and continue to work like that for a handful of months, then you’ll really understand work-capacity. Look back at the old time lifters, they were very capable and well-rounded athletes, not one-trick ponies.
Sure, those buzz-words can and do apply to many people who mindlessly exercise, but tell that to some Q4 athlete or high-level Q1 person who knows what they are doing and they will just smile. Because the person trying to argue with you that “you’re just working out. I’m the one who’s really training because I’m working toward the goal to compete in (fill in the blank) and you don’t have any real goal” doesn’t have a clue. Smile, nod our head, don’t argue and just say; “It’s all good Grasshopper.”
JMHO, lol.
This is what I would say if I could express myself this well LOL I think working toward a goal of upper level Q1 would be a fine thing for most people.
Edited by Chris Rice on 12-01-19 04:12 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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BntLgr
Total Posts: 403
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It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition,
and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge . . .
I liked the one with Telly Savalas!
| Be yourself. Everyone else is taken |
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Silverback61
Total Posts: 1834
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It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition,
and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge . . .
I liked the one with Telly Savalas!
Oh Yeah. "I'm talking Tina, and I'm going to kill you."
It Is Better To Be Stronger Than You Look, Than Look Stronger Than You Are
My Weights Are In Freedom Units
DEADLIFTS RULE!!
=[[[[[[--------]]]]]]= |
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