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Display Name Post: The kneesovertoesguy        (Topic#37633)
bigstve12
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Total Posts: 113
04-07-21 10:53 AM - Post#909494    



I've been doing a lot of backwards walking up hills. I just had my first MTB ride of the season with the usual guys I ride with. I left them all in the dust! It's been months since I've ridden, the only thing I can attribute this to is the leg strength gained from the backwards walking.
 
Ricky01
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Total Posts: 681
04-07-21 02:02 PM - Post#909497    



Not trying to work out too many specifics, but are any of his deep split squats performed in an isometric fashion (holding the bottom position)?

I ask as the long duration ISO lunge is something I quite like, but this usually stops with front thigh parallel.

Richard
 
Jordan D
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Total Posts: 560
04-07-21 04:51 PM - Post#909500    



  • Ricky01 Said:
Not trying to work out too many specifics, but are any of his deep split squats performed in an isometric fashion (holding the bottom position)?

I ask as the long duration ISO lunge is something I quite like, but this usually stops with front thigh parallel.

Richard



He says to hold the bottom position for 3 seconds. It’s insanely effective. Makes all other hip flexor stretches virtually useless, and has added some really nice hypertrophy to my quads.

In fact, I just got done with 5 x 5 of these half an hour ago. Used 40lb dumbbells. 8 months ago I couldn’t do bodyweight on two aerobic steps without holding on to something for balance. The overall benefits have been tremendous, and that 3s pause is crucial. My lower body just all around WORKS better now.
 
RyanH
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Total Posts: 853
The kneesovertoesguy
04-08-21 11:35 AM - Post#909512    



He was selling or promoting a strap that you could use on a regular bench to hold your legs down while doing Nordics.

This may have been the one.

https://www.amazon.com/Slant-Board-Guy-Nordi c-Hamstring/dp/B08HR9JXVP




Edited by RyanH on 04-08-21 11:35 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
ihavearedhoody
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Total Posts: 13
Re: The kneesovertoesguy
04-08-21 01:48 PM - Post#909517    



  • Jordan D Said:
  • Ricky01 Said:
Not trying to work out too many specifics, but are any of his deep split squats performed in an isometric fashion (holding the bottom position)?

I ask as the long duration ISO lunge is something I quite like, but this usually stops with front thigh parallel.

Richard



He says to hold the bottom position for 3 seconds. It’s insanely effective. Makes all other hip flexor stretches virtually useless, and has added some really nice hypertrophy to my quads.

In fact, I just got done with 5 x 5 of these half an hour ago. Used 40lb dumbbells. 8 months ago I couldn’t do bodyweight on two aerobic steps without holding on to something for balance. The overall benefits have been tremendous, and that 3s pause is crucial. My lower body just all around WORKS better now.




Don't tell Dan... "Coach, it's the lunges this year!!!" ;)

  • RyanH Said:
He was selling or promoting a strap that you could use on a regular bench to hold your legs down while doing Nordics.

This may have been the one.

https://www.amazon.com/Slant-Board-Guy-Nordi c-Hamstring/dp/B08HR9JXVP



Looking at it... it's a "gymnastic ring" strap.
 
Old Miler
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Total Posts: 1656
Re: The kneesovertoesguy
04-08-21 02:01 PM - Post#909518    



I've got to admit I am finding the ATG squats a challenge. I started doing some faster running 6 weeks ago (not "hard", but more strides and tempo-pace intervals, so mechanically faster than I was used to). Then I started KOT 3 weeks ago. My lower quads (or above-knees or whatever you call it) got really sore and just wouldn't recover until I took about 5 days off knee/quad stuff. And the first split second "coming out of the bottom position" feels quite painful in an "am-I-straining-something " way. A pity, as I love that stretch in the bottom position.

Do the cognoscenti come out of these by pushing "back" with hips in the first instance, or "up"? Seems to make a big difference, as it does with a normal squat.
 
Jordan D
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Total Posts: 560
Re: The kneesovertoesguy
04-08-21 04:08 PM - Post#909522    



  • Old Miler Said:
Do the cognoscenti come out of these by pushing "back" with hips in the first instance, or "up"? Seems to make a big difference, as it does with a normal squat.



When it’s heavy or late in a tiring set, I’m pushing back. On the crisp reps, it’s up. The best benefits, I suspect, come from keeping the reps crisp and fresh. Practice, not grinding. It all seems to be about getting the body to work correctly before adding resistance.

Despite Dan’s aversion to lunges, I think he might get behind these. They’re a different animal. Their relationship to the barbell squat is more like the relationship between 1-arm DB bench presses and the barbell bench. It illuminates weak points in the oddest places.
 
DanMartin
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Total Posts: 20523
Re: The kneesovertoesguy
04-08-21 04:27 PM - Post#909523    



  • Jordan D Said:
  • Old Miler Said:
Do the cognoscenti come out of these by pushing "back" with hips in the first instance, or "up"? Seems to make a big difference, as it does with a normal squat.



When it’s heavy or late in a tiring set, I’m pushing back. On the crisp reps, it’s up. The best benefits, I suspect, come from keeping the reps crisp and fresh. Practice, not grinding. It all seems to be about getting the body to work correctly before adding resistance.

Despite Dan’s aversion to lunges, I think he might get behind these. They’re a different animal. Their relationship to the barbell squat is more like the relationship between 1-arm DB bench presses and the barbell bench. It illuminates weak points in the oddest places.



Whoa, whoa, whoa...to be clear the ATG split squat is not, repeat not a lunge.
Mark it Zero.


 
Jordan D
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Total Posts: 560
Re: The kneesovertoesguy
04-08-21 07:22 PM - Post#909524    



  • DanMartin Said:
Whoa, whoa, whoa...to be clear the ATG split squat is not, repeat not a lunge.




Haha. Oh, I concur. Different beast entirely. I was just responding to this...

  • ihavearedhoody Said:
Don't tell Dan... "Coach, it's the lunges this year!!!" ;)


 
Roger Clarvin
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Total Posts: 62
04-11-21 01:26 PM - Post#909582    



In my second week of Knee Ability Zero. Had a bit of a breakthrough on the ATG split squats yesterday. Had something to do with concentrating on glute activation on the front leg (both legs, really) during the descent/eccentric. Man, what a great movement when you get it dialed in.
 
Old Miler
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Total Posts: 1656
04-13-21 04:27 PM - Post#909611    



Hi all. I ran this for two weeks on top of too much running - quads already sore, the extra eccentrics made me even sorer. Rested a week and restarted reasonably and it's...reasonable!

They suggest spending Tuesday and Thursday on an upper body program:
- 50 band pullouts
- 3x10 ring pushups alternating 3x10 ring/TRX rows
- 50 more band pullouts
- HALF AN HOUR of timed stretches lasting 1-2min each for everything in the lower body

So for once in my life I actually stretched for the amount of time the physios have always told me to. I am pretty sure this is part of the secret sauce.
 
DanMartin
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Total Posts: 20523
04-13-21 06:37 PM - Post#909613    



To digress a bit, I was doing some more deep diving on the KOT YouTube videos. One thing, well really two things. Patrick said he did over 10,000 ATG split squats and walked backwards over 100 miles
Mark it Zero.


 
Brian Hassler
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Total Posts: 499
04-14-21 12:56 AM - Post#909618    



  • Old Miler Said:
Hi all. I ran this for two weeks on top of too much running - quads already sore, the extra eccentrics made me even sorer. Rested a week and restarted reasonably and it's...reasonable!

They suggest spending Tuesday and Thursday on an upper body program:
- 50 band pullouts
- 3x10 ring pushups alternating 3x10 ring/TRX rows
- 50 more band pullouts
- HALF AN HOUR of timed stretches lasting 1-2min each for everything in the lower body

So for once in my life I actually stretched for the amount of time the physios have always told me to. I am pretty sure this is part of the secret sauce.



I found that doing the exercises at the end of my other activities, rather than as a warmup, helps. Also, I've started interpreting the "no pain" rule to mean "nothing more than (very) mild fatigue". With those two things, my knees have been much happier, both relative to the workouts and in general.
 
Old Miler
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Total Posts: 1656
04-14-21 02:37 PM - Post#909645    



Me too, the ATG squats are not hurting at all any more. I can just about do them on the ground, but feel my form is better with front foot on a 4 inch brick. I do feel this strange urge to press a dumbell or something and turn them into a half-kneeling press!

But really trying to stretch for a long period like 2x60sec each side, five days a week is a lot (he has the couch stretch and outer hip stretches in there every day). I'm hoping one day soon I start to loosen up.
 
Roger Clarvin
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Total Posts: 62
08-22-21 09:06 AM - Post#912768    



A few months later and I am still doing this. Just started "Dense." This has been a welcome diversion after years of doing basically the same stuff.

In the long run, I don't know to whether this will end up completely revolutionizing my training life, but even if the long term takeaways are nothing more than:

(1) do a little something that really closes up the knee--eg ATG split squats, reverse nordics,

(2) do a little lower leg stuff--eg tib raises and slant board calf raises, and

(3) think more about hamstring flexibility--eg slant board Jefferson curls

well then that is a lot.

All stuff I really haven't paid much attention to at all over the years. All stuff that feels really good.
 
Roger Clarvin
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Total Posts: 62
08-22-21 09:11 AM - Post#912769    



Long term I think I see this stuff as becoming part of my standard warmup/mobility routine for more conventional barbell/kb/running workouts.

 
ledfistaco
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Total Posts: 786
08-23-21 09:53 AM - Post#912784    



Nice to hear. I am still on zero. I regressed to elevated split squats and upped volume.
Less Hercules, more Achilles.



 
Upside
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Total Posts: 172
08-23-21 03:58 PM - Post#912786    



The combination of backward walking, Patrick step-ups, and tib raises have my left knee feeling better than it has in a couple of years. Medical science (which has been good to me for virtually everything else) has been unable to determine any reason for my left knee being unable to reach full extension. No arthritis, just a partial-thickness tear of a meniscus that I was already aware of and was told needed no surgery. It was 8 degrees deficient when assessed and now is 3 degrees after six months of the aforementioned exercises.

As others have pointed out the keys seem to be patience and commitment. Patrick himself says that it takes 100 hours of backward walking.
 
Roger Clarvin
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Total Posts: 62
08-29-21 08:37 PM - Post#912910    



Using a lifting belt and a bench for nordics—which are wholly eccentric at this point. Works fine. But my bench is nice and squishy.
 
Old Miler
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Total Posts: 1656
08-31-21 04:25 PM - Post#912958    



I found out that my deadlifting barbell works perfectly for nordic curls. With a bit of extra mat or cushion under the feet, and trainers on, my heels end up hooked under a 100kg bar that doesn't move. It's way easier to slide heels under it lying on the floor than to strap yourself down to a bench.
 
Chris Rice
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Total Posts: 623
08-31-21 07:18 PM - Post#912960    



  • Old Miler Said:
I found out that my deadlifting barbell works perfectly for nordic curls. With a bit of extra mat or cushion under the feet, and trainers on, my heels end up hooked under a 100kg bar that doesn't move. It's way easier to slide heels under it lying on the floor than to strap yourself down to a bench.



Pool noodles make great padding for the bar
 
Roger Clarvin
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Total Posts: 62
09-01-21 09:58 AM - Post#912972    



  • Chris Rice Said:
  • Old Miler Said:
I found out that my deadlifting barbell works perfectly for nordic curls. With a bit of extra mat or cushion under the feet, and trainers on, my heels end up hooked under a 100kg bar that doesn't move. It's way easier to slide heels under it lying on the floor than to strap yourself down to a bench.



Pool noodles make great padding for the bar




These are some hot tips right here. Thanks.
 
Roger Clarvin
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Total Posts: 62
09-16-21 09:22 PM - Post#913379    



Worth it to get a tib bar? I have resisted. How much better than just doing the toe raises standing against wall?
 
ledfistaco
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Total Posts: 786
09-17-21 11:14 AM - Post#913389    



  • Roger Clarvin Said:
Worth it to get a tib bar? I have resisted. How much better than just doing the toe raises standing against wall?



I have been doing the KOT and am interested in somehow loading the thib through a greater ROM than the toe raises. Seems like the tib bar or a diy version would be useful.
Less Hercules, more Achilles.



 
Chris Rice
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Total Posts: 623
09-17-21 12:54 PM - Post#913391    



  • ledfistaco Said:
  • Roger Clarvin Said:
Worth it to get a tib bar? I have resisted. How much better than just doing the toe raises standing against wall?



I have been doing the KOT and am interested in somehow loading the thib through a greater ROM than the toe raises. Seems like the tib bar or a diy version would be useful.



It's pretty easy to make one up for very little money
 
ledfistaco
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Total Posts: 786
09-17-21 01:09 PM - Post#913392    



Yeah. There are a number of plan designs out there already. PVC, plumbing pipe...
Less Hercules, more Achilles.



 
Chris Rice
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Total Posts: 623
09-17-21 02:42 PM - Post#913394    



find someone who welds and show them a picture - won't take them but a minute and you'll something nice for not much money. Use a "pool noodle" for the padding
 
Old Miler
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Total Posts: 1656
09-17-21 04:42 PM - Post#913397    



  • Roger Clarvin Said:
Worth it to get a tib bar? I have resisted. How much better than just doing the toe raises standing against wall?



I made myself a big wooden wedge a few years ago for eccentric knee exercises. It lets me stand on a 25 degree slope. Worked out great both for toe raises, and for calf raises, depending which way I face. A few old bits of wood and screws, and some glued-on sandpaper for grip.
 
Jason J
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Total Posts: 33
09-20-21 03:46 PM - Post#913457    



I made a tib bar with some iron pipe and a pool noodle. Similar in concept to a t-handle for swings.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/S5BkaQNnuRnqQQFC6

I also made a ramp for kot squats and jefferson lifts.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Pcq5oFQwaJ9dfoQr8
 
Chris Rice
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Total Posts: 623
09-20-21 05:24 PM - Post#913458    



  • Jason J Said:
I made a tib bar with some iron pipe and a pool noodle. Similar in concept to a t-handle for swings.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/S5BkaQNnuRnqQQFC6

I also made a ramp for kot squats and jefferson lifts.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Pcq5oFQwaJ9dfoQr8



Very nice!
 
ledfistaco
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Total Posts: 786
09-24-21 05:16 PM - Post#913551    



You may have learned about Monkey feet from KOT guy but I found this ad from a 1941 issue of Strength and Health. Monkey feet right there!

   Attachment

Less Hercules, more Achilles.



 
Steve Rogers
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Total Posts: 5628
09-24-21 05:38 PM - Post#913552    



  • ledfistaco Said:
You may have learned about Monkey feet from KOT guy but I found this ad from a 1941 issue of Strength and Health. Monkey feet right there!


KOT guy doesn't claim to have invented any of this, but he has put it together in easy to access form.
"Coyote is always waiting, and Coyote is always hungry."


 
Ville
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Total Posts: 2587
09-25-21 05:49 AM - Post#913555    



Is there a video how the tibialis bar is used? By the KOT guy?

When I google tib bar, I find a lot of videos how to make one, but not sure how it is used or what does it do. Is it used for knee (p)rehab?
My workout log


 
Steve Rogers
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Total Posts: 5628
09-25-21 08:15 AM - Post#913556    



Try this Bulletproofing Mark Bell's Knees video. Tib bar starts at 1:16.
"Coyote is always waiting, and Coyote is always hungry."


 
Mark Fenner
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Total Posts: 47
09-26-21 12:39 PM - Post#913566    



Has anyone tried (and succeeded) using a band setup for assistance on the nordic curls?

The goal being that instead of using progressive range of motion, you would use progressive weight through a full range of motion.

I briefly tried a few different setups (with bands in a squat rack with pull up bar) and none of them really gave a nice "resistance curve" throughout the movement. For reference, I tried from the pull up bar straight down, from the perpendicular cross piece that runs to a cable stack, and from the opposite (far side) rack posts with a variety of bands. None really "worked".

(One side note: these are so different from glute-ham raises. In fairness, I haven't done GHRs since about 2007, so my memory is "fuzzy". But the nordics are just a whole other level of hell.)

So, I'm curious about other's experience in trying to setup bands.

Thanks,
Mark
 
Jordan D
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Total Posts: 560
09-26-21 02:11 PM - Post#913567    



  • Steve Rogers Said:
Try this Bulletproofing Mark Bell's Knees video. Tib bar starts at 1:16.



That video is absolute gold.

That point about using the tibialis to pull you into ankle flexion was a huge epiphany for me. Knee pain just vanished immediately. Like a light switch.
 
Dan Christensen
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Total Posts: 114
09-28-21 01:32 AM - Post#913595    



It's a bit tangential, but I'm sure I heard Emmet Louis (the Irish stretching bloke) recommend some tib exercises if you are training for more ankle mobility, e.g. alternate calf stretches with tib work, or use a tib contraction to pull yourself deeper into a calf stretch.
 
DanMartin
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Total Posts: 20523
09-28-21 11:00 AM - Post#913599    



  • Jordan D Said:
  • Steve Rogers Said:
Try this Bulletproofing Mark Bell's Knees video. Tib bar starts at 1:16.



That video is absolute gold.

That point about using the tibialis to pull you into ankle flexion was a huge epiphany for me. Knee pain just vanished immediately. Like a light switch.



I have a Tib Bar and it's great. That said, I did the standing Tibialis raise for three months beforehand. As far as results, the Tib Bar provides a better means of feedback than the standing version, IMO. But, the standing version is free.
Mark it Zero.


 
ledfistaco
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Total Posts: 786
09-30-21 09:40 AM - Post#913637    



Yep, I wasn't saying he claims authorship.
He is remarkably open with sharing his info. One really can do most of his programs/ideas just from his youtube videos.

  • Steve Rogers Said:
  • ledfistaco Said:
You may have learned about Monkey feet from KOT guy but I found this ad from a 1941 issue of Strength and Health. Monkey feet right there!


KOT guy doesn't claim to have invented any of this, but he has put it together in easy to access form.


Less Hercules, more Achilles.



 
DanMartin
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Total Posts: 20523
09-30-21 11:14 AM - Post#913640    



  • ledfistaco Said:
Yep, I wasn't saying he claims authorship.
He is remarkably open with sharing his info. One really can do most of his programs/ideas just from his youtube videos.

  • Steve Rogers Said:
  • ledfistaco Said:
You may have learned about Monkey feet from KOT guy but I found this ad from a 1941 issue of Strength and Health. Monkey feet right there!


KOT guy doesn't claim to have invented any of this, but he has put it together in easy to access form.






The "Zero" program is all there on YouTube. It is worth a deep dive. Bookmark them all for your review.
Mark it Zero.


 
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