What’s on your list of ‘never again’ lifts? -
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Display Name Post: What’s on your list of ‘never again’ lifts?        (Topic#37165)
aussieluke
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Total Posts: 4916
03-25-20 12:09 PM - Post#896092    



Did a quick, late indoor workout tonight and discovered that Airborne Lunges on my right leg cause me upper side abdominal/rib pain. I love this exercise but it’s always caused me pain there - but I always assumed it was from pull-ups, which I always alternated with the airborne lunges. But since I haven’t done a pull-up in days I now know that isn’t the case.

Made me think of all the other lifts that these will now be joining in my ever growing personal bin of no hope. Which now includes:

Barbell front squats. Wrist pain for days whether it’s 20, 40, 60 or 80kg
Barbell bench. Nope. Guaranteed shoulder injury.
Leg extension machine. Might as well stab knives under my patella
Overhead squats. Always crick my neck. The last time I tried (several years ago) my hands went numb until I clicked my neck back in
Airborne lunges. (Rib/ab pain for days)

I’m sure there are many more I’ve forgotten and no doubt more to be discovered in the future.

Thankfully I can still clean, press, swing, squat and snatch a kettlebell with no issue!
Log




Edited by aussieluke on 03-25-20 12:33 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
Jg64
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Total Posts: 35
03-25-20 02:23 PM - Post#896099    



Flat bench presses, behind the neck presses, skull crushers for painful reasons. Cable crossovers, concentration curls and db tricep kick backs for other reasons.

I prefer picking a weight up and getting it overhead...be it a barbell, dumbbell, and/or kettlebell.

Concentrating on training "movements" as opposed to body parts.
 
BChase
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Total Posts: 502
03-25-20 02:47 PM - Post#896100    



Windmills, behind the neck presses, behind the neck lat pulldowns, skull crushers, lateral raises
 
Jordan D
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Total Posts: 220
03-25-20 03:32 PM - Post#896101    



Pistols, single-leg deadlifts, snatch-grip deadlifts, any type of standing barbell row.

All a guaranteed injury for me.
 
MrDave100
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Total Posts: 5
03-25-20 07:17 PM - Post#896111    



Upright rows, more of a BB movement, but it has always caused me shoulder pain.
 
Gunny72
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Total Posts: 265
03-25-20 07:33 PM - Post#896113    



Bench Press
Pistol Squats
Upright row
Leg extension/tricep pulldown (any isolation movements.)
 
aussieluke
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Total Posts: 4916
03-25-20 08:08 PM - Post#896114    



  • BChase Said:
Windmills, behind the neck presses, behind the neck lat pulldowns, skull crushers, lateral raises



Oh yeah I forgot about behind the neck presses. Ouch.
Log


 
Browser
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Total Posts: 374
What’s on your list of ‘never again’ lifts?
03-25-20 09:30 PM - Post#896115    



-barbell rows...always feel great for a workout or two and then my lower back goes kablooey

-zercher squats...some actually strong people like them so I gave them a try and absolutely do not see the point

-Turkish get-ups...same as zerchers

-and especially PULLUPS... I always feel guilty for not doing them but every single time I try to take them seriously all I get is elbow and shoulder misery with no noticeable benefits
"The trouble about always trying to preserve the health of the body is that it is so difficult to do without destroying the health of the mind."~GK Chesterton




Edited by Browser on 03-25-20 09:43 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
Kiwi5
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Total Posts: 199
03-26-20 03:35 AM - Post#896121    



-Bent Press. Almost as stupid a move as kipping pullups! But, I do unloaded windmills, 2 reps both arms as a warm up occasionally
-Bench. Dips are a far superior move/replacement.
-Rear foot elevated split squat, knees feel like crap when I do these loaded. Replaced with step ups and reverse lunge loaded/unloaded.
-Kettlebell TGU- replaced with sandbag TGU. Sandbag TGU preceded by a sandbag shoulder is brilliant stand alone session.
 
Dan John
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Total Posts: 11464
03-26-20 10:03 AM - Post#896127    



Along with this great list of testimonials, I have cobble today discussions like this for years. Excellent, experienced athletes tell me the same things.

Here's the rub: if I say, "We don't do X," I get 10,000 emails and questions demanding why. Yet, the same movements show up time and again.

Watching my buddies video of him almost really hurting himself with a heavy TGU reminded me of how f---ing stupid this is. Mark's face after he had a face full of barbell after a slipped bench press...tons of people bitching about Patella Tendonitis from lunges (and varietals).

Sometimes, the equipment helps. With rows, the TRX seems to have been the answer. I agree about Bent Over Rows (but they work in complexes as the load is very light...YMMV). Bent Press...almost destroyed a good friend's career demonstrating it for the Chief Commander Chairman (no warm up, no warning to do it, save "do it.")

Upright Rows and BNPresses are always an issue. It seems like they are fine...then BOOM...locked up in the neck.

Great list.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
GeoffreyLevens
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Total Posts: 185
03-26-20 10:39 AM - Post#896130    



Pull ups have been a no go for me for some years. Arthritis added to (and quite likely caused by) tendency to easy impingement. Added KB snatches awhile ago for same reason. When I "pack" shoulders in overhead position or near to (TGU once up on elbow), I get toothache type pain in one shoulder, radiating down the arm. And that arm tends to turn to boiled spaghetti with no warning.

I still do TGU's but light, 35 lbs max, as warm up with no issues. I won't ever go heavier than that.

Barbell clean. If I get strong enough to use 45 lb plates I might some day but with 25 lb plates, not enough room under the bar when it's on the ground "in the event". I've seen to many "FAILS!" videos plus I almost did it myself awhile back and decided I'm just not nimble enough at 70.

Really, since my goals are all functional, healthy, mobile as a geezer, I'm good with heavy swings and trapbar dl's or if access to squat rack, front squats or high bar back squats.

I'll do loaded carries until I fall into my grave w/ weight in my hands HAH!
 
BrianBinVA
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Total Posts: 3853
What’s on your list of ‘never again’ lifts?
03-26-20 10:49 AM - Post#896131    



I don't know about "never again" or anything, but things that have never seemed to have a lot of value to me, relative to what is put into them, include heavy getups, bent press/windmill/armbar family, pullups/chin-ups, heavy bench press. I'm sure there are more, but these are some. Of course, if you have a need to do any of these, I'm sure you can work around what needs to be done, but they definitely won't be staples for me, to say the least.

Editing initial post instead of adding more to note good mornings and mixed-grip deadlifts.
"You are not good enough to be disappointed."

-- Dan John

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising."

-- Kenny Powers




Edited by BrianBinVA on 03-27-20 09:17 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
Jordan D
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Total Posts: 220
03-26-20 11:15 AM - Post#896134    



Burpees. I forgot burpees. I can't think of anything more asinine.


 
DanMartin
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Total Posts: 20199
03-26-20 11:16 AM - Post#896135    



Too numerous to mention. But, I don't spend a lot of time worrying about it. What I do do is focus on those exercises I can perform safely and productively.
Practice what you suck at.


 
Jg64
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Total Posts: 35
03-26-20 11:40 AM - Post#896136    



I know I may get blasted here but I have another exercise to add. The "heavy" kettlebell snatch. I recently injured myself doing them. I'm ok but I realized in my case at this time the risk isn't worth it.

I'm not trashing the snatch at all, great movement, but I personally at my age (55) don't want to snatch above 40 kgs again!
 
Jim James
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Total Posts: 51
What’s on your list of ‘never again’ lifts?
03-26-20 11:53 AM - Post#896137    



Palms forward pullups.

Neutral grip pullups are fine if the gym has that option, but often hotel gyms will just have a straight bar and I'll think,"a couple of sets can't hurt."

But they do. A couple of sets is enough to aggravate one of my elbows.



Edited by Jim James on 03-26-20 11:54 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
Pontyclun
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Total Posts: 2118
03-26-20 11:54 AM - Post#896138    



The "windshield wiper" part of a TGU. Jacked my knee up for a few months after doing it one day. The modified TGU where you plant your foot down at 90 degrees is far safer for the knees.
Owen Brown, a Biomedical Scientist from Pontyclun, Wales.


 
Jim James
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Total Posts: 51
03-26-20 11:59 AM - Post#896139    



is the issue with heavy TGUs how they can be traumatic if you drop them on your face/body?

Or do they tend to injure in other ways?

I did the program that shall not be named to 32kgs, and have to admit they made my body feel good. If I recall correctly, I later did a few at 40kg, and that was definitely iffy and I could easily have lost control.

I quit trying to go heavy mostly because one of my elbows doesn't fully lock out (should have tapped sooner), so if you can't lock out that 40kg becomes really hard to keep extended.
 
Pontyclun
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Total Posts: 2118
03-26-20 12:04 PM - Post#896140    



There’s a bit about heavy getups in Dan’s newly uploaded ‘Bounce’ video. Talks about the risk of a heavy ‘bell smashing your face in.
Owen Brown, a Biomedical Scientist from Pontyclun, Wales.


 
BChase
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Total Posts: 502
03-26-20 01:00 PM - Post#896143    



I found when I did TGU's with an 88, my elbows and wrists would be sore afterward. I still feel good doing a TGU with a 70.

My pullups are always neutral grip never more than 5 reps, usually 2-3.

Oh, I forgot one, decline press. Never found it of any use.
 
Dan John
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Total Posts: 11464
03-26-20 03:30 PM - Post#896152    



Ponty, that's the way I teach it.

Heavy KB snatches: they never made sense to me. I get it is impressive, like heavy single leg DLs, but go back and look at the guys showing off doing these and you might find they don't have an internet presence any more...
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
Steve Rogers
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Total Posts: 4856
03-26-20 03:50 PM - Post#896154    



  • Dan John Said:
...
Heavy KB snatches: they never made sense to me. I get it is impressive, like heavy single leg DLs, but go back and look at the guys showing off doing these and you might find they don't have an internet presence any more...


How heavy do you mean by heavy? Some of the guys doing A+A style snatches seem to be holding up well with 32kg to 40kg bells. Others start having issues with 28kg.
"Coyote is always waiting, and Coyote is always hungry."


 
BrianBinVA
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Total Posts: 3853
03-26-20 05:04 PM - Post#896156    



I can't imagine a reason to do heavy KB snatches, but that is just me. Sort of like loading up swings to double beasts, or one of those 200-lb KBs. At some point, the tool loses its utility.
"You are not good enough to be disappointed."

-- Dan John

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising."

-- Kenny Powers


 
Dan John
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Total Posts: 11464
03-26-20 05:30 PM - Post#896158    



Well, I snatched 314 pounds in a weightlifting meet and I think that was "safer" than some of the heavier snatch nonsense I have seen.

I still think the dynamic snatch with the 16, 20 or 24 is still the place you want to be in with the KB snatch. Once you start going heavier, you best be good.

Also, let's see how long the heavy snatch fad stays around again. I remember when the Viking Warrior Conditioning was the answer to all questions then...

Poof.

Magician trick!
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
Steve Rogers
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Total Posts: 4856
03-26-20 06:49 PM - Post#896161    



I can see a heavy Olympic snatch being safer than a heavy kettlebell snatch, inherently more stable mechanics and performed for low reps. I agree about being good before progressing to heavier weights for the kettlebell snatch. I'm currently doing A+A snatches with a 24, have done a few with the 28 and don't plan to progress to the 28 until I've done a lot of perfect snatches with the 24. I think Harald Motz looks pretty good with the 40.
"Coyote is always waiting, and Coyote is always hungry."


 
BrianBinVA
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Total Posts: 3853
03-26-20 07:12 PM - Post#896162    



Right, o-snatch is way safer (and far more useful if going heavy), from my perspective.

And, I somehow forgot the good morning from my original list! Rank oversight for sure.
"You are not good enough to be disappointed."

-- Dan John

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising."

-- Kenny Powers


 
Old Miler
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Total Posts: 1242
03-26-20 07:50 PM - Post#896166    



At various time I had lifts I felt very unsafe on.

But when I put the time in, practiced regularly starting with a light load, I got better at them and now they don't bother me.
 
Silverback61
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Total Posts: 1238
03-26-20 07:56 PM - Post#896168    



I wont say never again, but... The Barbell Clean & Press / Standing Barbell Press.
For me, Kettlebells are just better for Overhead Pressing.
It Is Better To Be Stronger Than You Look, Than Look Stronger Than You Are

My Weights Are In Freedom Units

=[[[[[[--------]]]]]]=


 
Jg64
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Total Posts: 35
03-26-20 08:50 PM - Post#896171    



Well, since I brought up the snatch...I can and did snatch heavily, i.e. 40 or a 44 kg for multiple lower rep sets ala A+A. I really enjoyed them and one day about 8 weeks ago I felt an odd pull and ended up with an annoying dull ache in my shoulder. It's better now but I feel like I learned a valuable lesson. At 55 yoa I am not sure it's worth risking as I enjoy training and don't want to stop because of an injury.

The kb snatch is a great movement and I can reap the benefits of it with a 24 or 28. I don't want to be in a situation wherein one slightly wrong move severely injures me.

 
Jordan Derksen
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Total Posts: 4
03-26-20 09:15 PM - Post#896172    



-Barbell back squat - which I’ve spent most of my training life centered around. Mostly for recovery issues with going heavy on it. I just don’t care anymore.
-Weighted Pullups. I can still do solid high rep sets with body weight, but the last few times I’ve tried to weigh them down my elbow gets tender and pinky/ring finger get tingly.
-Olympic lifts (my first love) with a caveat. Not exactly a never again movement but for sure never again without a platform. Had the worst neck tweak ever catching heavy power cleans in my basement.
-TGU. They feel great for me, but when I was teaching my wife the movement I watched her almost destroy her face with a 35lb kettlebell. She saved it but jacked up her arm pretty bad. I abandoned it myself quickly after.
-flat bench press. Not for injury reasons, but my dad told me when he was in college a guy died cause he dropped the bar on his neck. Freak accident yes. But every time I get close to the mid 200’s I have mental images of my shoulder giving out or it slipping and smashing my teeth in. Not a good image to have when you’re trying to focus on a heavy lift. Pushups and it’s many variations are more than enough.
 
Andy Mitchell
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Total Posts: 5109
03-27-20 05:01 AM - Post#896177    



I’ll never give my daughters a lift to school again
You can never be too thin, too tan or too rich..
D-mart


 
RupertC
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Total Posts: 1351
03-27-20 07:34 AM - Post#896179    



- Heavy TGUs. I find 24k to be about perfect. I can do 32k, but probably best not to start there if I haven't been working on it for a while. Nothing heavier than that has ever felt safe.

- Pistols. I think bottom-position pistols work as a stretch, but that's about it. Why bother?

- Mixed-grip deadlifts. Sure, it can get a few extra kilos, but never feels very safe.

- Bent press / Side press. I might revisit these two if a circus strongman can give me some coaching. Otherwise, no thanks.

- Trap bar jump pulls. What was I thinking of?

- Lifting outside in a thunderstorm. Yes, I did this. No, I don't recommend it.
"If I had eight hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend six hours sharpening my ax"


 
Chris Rice
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Total Posts: 465
03-27-20 08:30 AM - Post#896180    



It's not so much lifts I don't like (although there are some) but lifts that don't like me.
 
Heck
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Total Posts: 45
03-27-20 10:47 AM - Post#896183    



Doing Dan's KB snatch test prep protocol for the RKCII gave me new respect for the lightweight snatch. Like 12 or 16kg. I honestly don't see the need to go heavier anymore. Aside from absolutely cruising through the test itself, it just gave me that "wow, am I in incredible shape right now" feeling while hiking or doing most anything else.

My friend who is an SFGII and can snatch the 40kg for reps agrees. When I've done stretches of either "high reps and long rest" or VWC-style low rep, low rest, it always feels great. Doing heavy snatches... I don't feel great.

Honestly, I feel the same about the bent press. Standing or (even better) half kneeling, that thing is good medicine with light weight.
 
BChase
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Total Posts: 502
03-27-20 01:56 PM - Post#896187    



It's nice to see some exercises that I refused to do in the first place. Pistol for example. Thought it was a circus trick then. Never thought Zercher squats were worth anything.

I used to snatch a 32 once in a while. Never felt great on the elbows on the lock out.

VWC gave me tennis elbow. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

Dan, great line about the internet presence.
 
Dan John
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Total Posts: 11464
03-27-20 05:43 PM - Post#896191    



Thanks, BC.

That's my biggest issue with the zealots of these certs and programs: the answer is always "do the program."

Reminds me of another weekly meeting.

These fads...I'm sorry for any of my influence on encouraging these kinds of things.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
Jg64
*
Total Posts: 35
What’s on your list of ‘never again’ lifts?
03-27-20 07:04 PM - Post#896195    



Coach John, you make a good point about the "zealots"....on another unnamed forum you have followers asking for "updated" or "redone" protocols because the original protocol doesn't include the "newest" craze. I'm not being critical of the A+A protocol at all, nor the Quick and Dead protocol but changing an already established system like the ROP or "Kb Strong!" Is just nuts to me.

I do recall years ago following the VWC protocol as the "go to" fat loss program. Then its followers seemingly overnight disappeared. I am aware there has been some disagreement between the VWC's author and the SF management but it just goes to show that some protocols will come and go and some will be there forever. (Delorme)



Edited by Jg64 on 03-27-20 07:15 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
Neander
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Total Posts: 7404
Re: What’s on your list of ‘never again’ lifts?
03-27-20 09:32 PM - Post#896199    



  • Quoting:
I’ll never give my daughters a lift to school again



Thanks Big for that grin, Andy!
At times you must sacrifice yourself for the good of the Universe.



 
Andy Mitchell
*
Total Posts: 5109
Re: What’s on your list of ‘never again’ lifts?
03-28-20 05:26 AM - Post#896206    



  • Neander Said:
  • Quoting:
I’ll never give my daughters a lift to school again



Thanks Big for that grin, Andy!



I did that for us.
You can never be too thin, too tan or too rich..
D-mart


 
Ville
*
Total Posts: 2289
Re: What’s on your list of ‘never again’ lifts?
03-28-20 07:23 AM - Post#896209    



Difficult to say. I think I've gotten an injury or two from most of the lifts I'm doing now, but after a time, I can do them again.

I would say I'll never lift too heavy, too often again. Try to ease an extra rep or set here and there and just enjoy being alive.

I've been very surprised that I can progress just doing a lift once a week. Goes against everything I've read ("To press a lot, you have to press a lot", 40 days program, etc.).

My workout log


 
Ville
*
Total Posts: 2289
Re: What’s on your list of ‘never again’ lifts?
03-28-20 08:34 AM - Post#896211    



I am terrified of lifts and I’m taking steps to avoid them.

(Sorry, I couldn't resist!)
My workout log


 
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