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Display Name Post: ES progression        (Topic#36995)
Damiano
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Total Posts: 192
11-26-19 05:02 AM - Post#890785    



Hello
I have an idea I wish to try out and wish to hear if it's sensible. Before someone asks goals I am doing this for fun and hopefully adding strength.

I have done three cycles of ES this year and I really enjoy it. I like math though so I like to make tables and calculate. I know you should go by feel on ES, but could this work?

Add weight for two consecutive workouts while removing reps and remove weight for one while re-adding reps.

For example

Week 1
Day 1 Start weight 2x5
Day 2 Add 2.5kg 2x4
Day 3 Add 2.5kg 2x3
Rest
Day 4 Remove 2.5kg 2x5
Day 5 Add 2.5kg 2x4
Rest

After 3 weeks and 15 workouts the pattern repeats.

On week 1 you have 5kg more on Saturday than on Monday.
On week 2 you have the same weight on Saturday and Monday (but that weight is 2.5kg more than last Saturday's).
On week 3 you have 5kg more on Saturday than Monday (and the weight on Monday is 2.5kg more than last Saturday's).

To summarise: on the third Saturday you do 2x3 with 15 kg more than on the first Monday. On Monday week 4 you do 2x5 with 12.5kg more than Monday week 1. You could of course use bigger or smaller jumps per day.


Edited by Damiano on 11-26-19 05:22 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
12bernd
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Total Posts: 155
ES progression
11-26-19 06:53 AM - Post#890786    



Should work alright. It's similar enough to how some people set up their training cycle doing Pttp using the 4 steps forward, 3 steps back method. Have tried it myself and it worked. Actually liked it more than going by feel.

But having done the 40 day routine 3 times and giving Pttp a go for a month I think the narrow focus on a few key exercises is the most important part. Big pull, big push. Maybe something else? Maybe not. Once the weights get heavier it might take more away than it adds.

Edited by 12bernd on 11-26-19 08:02 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
iPood
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Total Posts: 1780
11-26-19 07:14 AM - Post#890787    



During all my cycles of Easy Strength, I always used a constant load and kept pounding at it until it became ridiculously easy.

Then I bumped the load significantly and start all over again.
"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness
and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums.
It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable.
Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow.
Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't."

Dan Martin


 
Dan John
*
Total Posts: 11322
11-26-19 09:39 AM - Post#890788    



I'm with iPood, but I would love to see your idea work. Let us know how it goes.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
Old Miler
*
Total Posts: 1141
11-26-19 01:39 PM - Post#890795    



  • iPood Said:
During all my cycles of Easy Strength, I always used a constant load and kept pounding at it until it became ridiculously easy.

Then I bumped the load significantly and start all over again.



Interesting. My son borrowed all my dumbells for the basement in his student house this year, and I was wondering if I should buy more instead of just pressing the same 20kb bell every night. I guess I'll just keep going, and get myself a 24 around Christmas!
 
Dan John
*
Total Posts: 11322
11-27-19 10:48 AM - Post#890809    



Honestly, that is almost exactly how "we" trained when I first started. You trained with weights at a certain load. If you went to someone's house or a gym, you went heavier. That was it for me.

Barry Mammini had a gym membership that I would train heavier every month or so (beyond the 132 to 185 that I cobbled at home) and I would just use the heavier bars there.

It worked really well.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
iPood
*
Total Posts: 1780
ES progression
11-27-19 01:06 PM - Post#890812    



  • Old Miler Said:
  • iPood Said:
During all my cycles of Easy Strength, I always used a constant load and kept pounding at it until it became ridiculously easy.

Then I bumped the load significantly and start all over again.



Interesting. My son borrowed all my dumbells for the basement in his student house this year, and I was wondering if I should buy more instead of just pressing the same 20kb bell every night. I guess I'll just keep going, and get myself a 24 around Christmas!




You can always try Pat Flynn's version of E.S.: three entire months doing 2x1-2-3 almost daily and keeping the load constant.

I must confess I don't really have the patience for it but, provided the initial load is heavy-ish enough (so it won't become stupidly easy within the first weeks), it's a very interesting choice.
"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness
and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums.
It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable.
Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow.
Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't."

Dan Martin




Edited by iPood on 11-27-19 01:07 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
Damiano
*
Total Posts: 192
11-29-19 01:44 AM - Post#890834    



  • Dan John Said:
I'm with iPood, but I would love to see your idea work. Let us know how it goes.



Great! Thank you! I am updating my log and will post my evaluation here in three weeks.

Thank you all for your answers, I really enjoy reading your input.
 
blkjss
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Total Posts: 2211
12-08-19 09:33 PM - Post#891173    



  • iPood Said:
During all my cycles of Easy Strength, I always used a constant load and kept pounding at it until it became ridiculously easy.

Then I bumped the load significantly and start all over again.

sounds good.
My training log


 
Damiano
*
Total Posts: 192
ES progression
12-14-19 04:28 AM - Post#891399    



Three weeks are finished today. I enjoyed this ramping up scheme very much, I felt stronger over the week and it was a nice surprise when I lowered the weight and could do 5 reps easily with the weight I used that day.

The first session I used 58.5kg for bench and zercher squats and 78.5kg for deadlifts.
Today I used 73.5kg for bench and zercher and 93.5kg for deadlift.

Afterwards I made a new personal record on the bench (83.5kg x 2). I have trained for a year at Christmas and my bodyweight is 91kg, so I am slowly approaching bodyweight bench press. I know my progress is slow, but I don't mind since I have a lot of other things in life, like work, kids etc.

I know this experiment was just for one person (a newbie who probably would get stronger doing whatever) and only for three weeks, but I believe more people could try it out and see for themselves if they like it.

Edited by Damiano on 12-14-19 04:29 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
Gunny72
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Total Posts: 251
Re: ES progression
12-14-19 05:45 PM - Post#891408    



  • Damiano Said:
Three weeks are finished today. I enjoyed this ramping up scheme very much, I felt stronger over the week and it was a nice surprise when I lowered the weight and could do 5 reps easily with the weight I used that day.

The first session I used 58.5kg for bench and zercher squats and 78.5kg for deadlifts.
Today I used 73.5kg for bench and zercher and 93.5kg for deadlift.

Afterwards I made a new personal record on the bench (83.5kg x 2). I have trained for a year at Christmas and my bodyweight is 91kg, so I am slowly approaching bodyweight bench press. I know my progress is slow, but I don't mind since I have a lot of other things in life, like work, kids etc.

I know this experiment was just for one person (a newbie who probably would get stronger doing whatever) and only for three weeks, but I believe more people could try it out and see for themselves if they like it.



Way to go Damiano !

Kep on going with it.

I have done 3 x 40 Day programmes these past 3 years & I swear by them.

Hang in there.

Andrew Gunn
 
Damiano
*
Total Posts: 192
ES modules
12-19-19 01:35 PM - Post#891567    



I just had an idea. If this already is the point of ES and I just didn't realize it, please tell me.

So, say you do ES Mon Tue Wed Fri Sat and you do something like:
10-25 reps goblet squat
10 reps deadlift
10 reps overhead press
10 reps pull ups

Could you then, from time to time, add other exercises to the mix? Let's call them modules.

Say one module is doing curls for sets of 8, then you can, for a month or two, do curls on Wednesdays and Saturdays after your ES session (since the next day is a resting day anyway). One module could be doing complexes, another heavy squats. I don't mean that you do all this at once, but that you have a possibility to exchange these modules while always keeping the ES base. So ES is your strength base that you never change and then you change other things just to spice things up.


And thank you Andrew Gunn for your encouraging words!

Edited by Damiano on 12-19-19 01:39 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
Jordan D
*
Total Posts: 175
Re: ES modules
12-19-19 04:40 PM - Post#891571    



  • Damiano Said:
I just had an idea. If this already is the point of ES and I just didn't realize it, please tell me.

So, say you do ES Mon Tue Wed Fri Sat and you do something like:
10-25 reps goblet squat
10 reps deadlift
10 reps overhead press
10 reps pull ups

Could you then, from time to time, add other exercises to the mix? Let's call them modules.

Say one module is doing curls for sets of 8, then you can, for a month or two, do curls on Wednesdays and Saturdays after your ES session (since the next day is a resting day anyway). One module could be doing complexes, another heavy squats. I don't mean that you do all this at once, but that you have a possibility to exchange these modules while always keeping the ES base. So ES is your strength base that you never change and then you change other things just to spice things up.


And thank you Andrew Gunn for your encouraging words!




I’ve tried exactly this with bench press and back squats. Both were great failures. I mean, they worked a little, but definitely affected my ability to recover in the subsequent days.
 
iPood
*
Total Posts: 1780
Re: ES modules
12-20-19 12:50 AM - Post#891592    



  • Damiano Said:
I just had an idea. If this already is the point of ES and I just didn't realize it, please tell me.

So, say you do ES Mon Tue Wed Fri Sat and you do something like:
10-25 reps goblet squat
10 reps deadlift
10 reps overhead press
10 reps pull ups

Could you then, from time to time, add other exercises to the mix? Let's call them modules.

Say one module is doing curls for sets of 8, then you can, for a month or two, do curls on Wednesdays and Saturdays after your ES session (since the next day is a resting day anyway). One module could be doing complexes, another heavy squats. I don't mean that you do all this at once, but that you have a possibility to exchange these modules while always keeping the ES base. So ES is your strength base that you never change and then you change other things just to spice things up.


And thank you Andrew Gunn for your encouraging words!



The whole point of ES is taking care of your strength needs, so you can keep practicing your main sport with almost no impact.

Adding some plug-ins after ES defeat the purpose of the program (which is to be GPP oriented and quite minimalistic).

If you want to add curls, do them as a part of the program: substitute the pull ups for curls, do a couple of 40 day cycles that way and see what happens.

If you want to do heavy squats... well, choose another program. You can substitute deadlifts for squats for a few cycles, but neither of them should be heavy (then again, the whole point of ES is being easy).

Ideally, you should finish every session feeling fresh. So fresh, in fact, that you could do it again no problem.
"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness
and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums.
It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable.
Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow.
Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't."

Dan Martin


 
Damiano
*
Total Posts: 192
Re: ES modules
12-20-19 02:00 AM - Post#891594    



Thank you both for your answers Jordan D and iPood.

My rationale was that I don't do any other sport, so I thought I had more energy to "spend". I will try to add the exercises I want to the program instead then, and I will also try to use a constant load and keep pounding at it for an entire cycle instead of changing the load constantly.
 
Old Miler
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Total Posts: 1141
Re: ES modules
12-20-19 01:07 PM - Post#891610    



A couple of weeks ago on this forum, I asked Dan if it was OK to add an exercise and he said "fine". Specifically I spent 6 weeks doing ES squats, and have now moved to deadlifts, and was wondering if it was OK to keep doing one session of squats a week to maintain what I had built.

To be specific I'm doing them somewhat easy-strength style; just one day when I do up to ten reps, at a weight that feels heavy but not hard. Absolutely not grinding out 3 sets of 10, because that would make me sore for my running.

Likewise I'll probably move on to power-clean/front-squat in spring, but will try to one set of squats and one of deads each week to not lose whatever numbers I got up to.



 
Mr. Kent
*
Total Posts: 199
Re: ES modules
12-20-19 01:33 PM - Post#891613    



  • Old Miler Said:
and was wondering if it was OK to keep doing one session of squats a week to maintain what I had built.



You're free to do whatever you like in the weight room. You really don't need permission to do certain exercises with particular loads and/or frequencies.

I jest, and I sincerely hope I don't come off like a jerk with the above comments, but I do think we (collectively) tend to get hung up on the particulars and can lose the point. Something you might want to think about is rather than laying out a protocol and asking "is this Easy Strength", try to define your goals first because I think what you're really asking is "will doing X in the weight room help or hurt me reach my goals?"

And since you're asking for advice I'd say try it and see (and please report back). Generally speaking I've found that squatting once a week with reasonable loads and stopping before strain sets in (ie. NOT grinding reps) seems to support overall movement and athletic performance.
 
Jordan D
*
Total Posts: 175
Re: ES modules
12-20-19 03:14 PM - Post#891615    



  • Old Miler Said:
A couple of weeks ago on this forum, I asked Dan if it was OK to add an exercise and he said "fine". Specifically I spent 6 weeks doing ES squats, and have now moved to deadlifts, and was wondering if it was OK to keep doing one session of squats a week to maintain what I had built.

To be specific I'm doing them somewhat easy-strength style; just one day when I do up to ten reps, at a weight that feels heavy but not hard. Absolutely not grinding out 3 sets of 10, because that would make me sore for my running.

Likewise I'll probably move on to power-clean/front-squat in spring, but will try to one set of squats and one of deads each week to not lose whatever numbers I got up to.








+1 to this

After a year of ES-style training, that's one of the biggest things I discovered. Adding in that one extra squat/deadlift session per week (and not pushing it) helped me feel more "complete." It's more important for the squat than deadlift, I think.

Squats + Power Cleans has been my favorite combo for a while, but I think the sweet spot might be swapping out cleans for deadlifts one day per week. Probably on Day 5 so you get the next day off, and probably 5-3-2 reps.

When attempting those "modules" myself (I used the exact same word when asking a similar question on this forum 6 months or so ago), I gained some insight into recovery. ES does take a subtle toll on the body throughout the week. When adding in two days of 4 x 10 bench press sessions, it beat my shoulders up more than it increased my bench press. I think it's because you can recover from 5 days of ES in a week, but anything more will require more rest (boy that seems obvious now). So it went for me, at least. It's a balancing act, and I ultimately decided that if I wanted more aggressive gains, I'd be better off not screwing with ES and just choosing a tried-and-true program like MMS or 5x5.

Lord, this seems so obvious now. I've really got to quit overthinking this stuff.
 
Dan John
*
Total Posts: 11322
12-20-19 05:10 PM - Post#891619    



I had lunch (brunch) with two Olympians and we all agreed that the 8 week ES basic format was really helpful. It freed these guys up in the off-season to deal with all the other things (technical, tactical, whateveral) and just TCB (Take Care of Business for those who missed the 1960s).

At most, I think two rounds of the full ES a year would be about right. So, if you do decide to make it your center of your training, it makes total sense to me that you would add more here and there.

My advice for the guys today:

I reviewed "Now What?" and the importance of having clarity on the appropriate tension, arousal and heart rate when you compete. I called it the Golden Triangle and I wish I would have said that before...

Next, I went over the barbell complexes and I think that a few weeks (like three at most) of this to kick off the year/season would be a good idea. I gave them the Barbell Complex sheets.

Then, one round of ES working on the press, pull up (or variation) and a DL variation (plus carries and ab wheel)

A week OFF.

Then...well, it gets specific here, but I recommended to one to try the Transformation Program for up to six weeks. He has "all the numbers" so his issue isn't in the weightroom.

It's never in the weightroom any more.

So, in the real world of elite performance, ES's role is to nudge the athlete stronger, but not eat up a ton of recovery.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
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