Diet experiment -
davedraper.com home Home | Dave's Q&A | IOL Blog | DanJohn.net

Shout box
Recent topics


Dan John's Wandering Weights: Our Epic Journey Through All Things Heavy
Click here for details and to sign up for this FREE weekly commentary

*****

Quick Links: Main Index | Flight Deck | Training Logs | Dan John Deck | Must Reads | Archive | Private Topics

 Page 2 of 2 <12
Display Name Post: Diet experiment        (Topic#38021)
Gunny72
*
Total Posts: 398
Diet experiment
07-12-22 12:28 AM - Post#920394    



  • Justin Jordan Said:
Yeah, also: the no overweight people thing is a myth.

People were overall less fat, and a lot less were seriously obese, but the first Atkins book came out fifty years ago, and it sold millions THEN.

Before that was the Drinking Man's Diet, Fletcherizing, you name it. Heck, Banting's Letter On Corpulence, To The Public, sold 63,000 copies in England, in 1863.

Don't get caught in Golden Age fantasies.



Hi Jordan,

I was referring to as a whole not as individual cases as you pointed out.

I deal in facts and facts alone. I am sure there were some pockets of society carrying a few extra kilos back in "the golden age" but as a whole they well and truly have our generation covered in regards to lean body mass.

I have seen, read and researched more than enough to come to this conclusion. I am definitely not caught up in any "golden age' fantasies.

P.s my mother bought the Atkins diet book back in the late 1970's, early 80's and she wasn't even Fat. Never really has been.

It sounds strange, but, people buy these kind of books even though they don't necessarily need to read them. Not sure why my mum ever bought that book. Catchy marketing? who knows.

Andrew Gunn


Edited by Gunny72 on 07-12-22 12:38 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
WxHerk
*
Total Posts: 317
Re: Diet experiment
07-12-22 09:25 AM - Post#920402    



I would also consider what different generations regarded as "fat." Looking back at pictures, the fatter people in general were not as fat as today's fatter people. Especially youngsters.
Just my 2¢


 
BrianBinVA
*
Total Posts: 5003
Re: Diet experiment
07-12-22 10:00 AM - Post#920405    



  • WxHerk Said:
I would also consider what different generations regarded as "fat." Looking back at pictures, the fatter people in general were not as fat as today's fatter people. Especially youngsters.



Yes, correct. I'm fairly sure that what passes for "normal" size/bulk today would have been considered something like "husky" if not downright fat, in previous generations.


 
DanMartin
*
Total Posts: 20621
Re: Diet experiment
07-12-22 12:10 PM - Post#920409    



Over the past year and a half I have lost 50 pounds =/-. The two main factors were/are: Move more*, eat less. YMMV

*It will require a separate thread, but I cannot stress enough how effective Heavy Hands walking is at burning calories. And, to digress, because of Heavy Hands, my resting pulse rate has dropped significantly. YMMV
Mark it Zero.


 
Jordan D
*
Total Posts: 699
07-12-22 12:52 PM - Post#920410    



If there’s a single X, I think it’s “Convenience”, because that wraps up a lot of issues like cheap calories, plastics, and their sneaky insidious herald, advertising.

Imagine a line graph mapping ”convenience” against average bodyweight across the 20th century.

Also, I’m not opposed to extreme diets. I’m just opposed to them as a “solution” instead of a “temporary reset button.”

My own dietary philosophy now is: Eat like an adult (meat, veg, fruit) and occasionally do something extreme (whether that’s enjoying the shit out of ice cream and whiskey, or a 3-day total fast).

I do think both are conducive to the good life.
 
Gunny72
*
Total Posts: 398
Re: Diet experiment
07-12-22 07:26 PM - Post#920412    



  • DanMartin Said:
Over the past year and a half I have lost 50 pounds =/-. The two main factors were/are: Move more*, eat less. YMMV

*It will require a separate thread, but I cannot stress enough how effective Heavy Hands walking is at burning calories. And, to digress, because of Heavy Hands, my resting pulse rate has dropped significantly. YMMV




That's mighty impressive Dan Martin!

Your "move more/eat less" mantra reminds me so much of a very famous Australian science commentator, author and media personality "Dr Karl" Kruszelnicki.

"Dr Karl" has the unique ability to make science fun with any age group or genre. With his quirky personality and youthful enthusiasm (despite being a Baby boomer), he has written numerous best-selling books in Oz because of this ability.

In one of his books, he wrote about "fat burning." He told the reader that "fat burning" is a terrible term because it is physically impossible for the human body to "burn" fat. There is no chemical reaction in the human body that allows this to happen.

What "Dr Karl" then stated was the body removes/discharges fat molecules.

And how does the body do that he asked the reader? By breathing and sweating.

His last paragraph links in with yours and " I will quote it word for word."

"MORAL OF THE STORY - MOVE MORE AND EAT LESS" wrote the great scientist.

Andrew Gunn

Edited by Gunny72 on 07-12-22 07:29 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
Justin Jordan
*
Total Posts: 837
07-12-22 08:44 PM - Post#920413    



Way more people are way more fat today.

That's different than the idea that everyone was lean.

in 1960 - 1962, the percentage of people who were obese was thirteen percent, and the overweight percentage in the US was around thirty percent.

Obese, here, was defined as 30 or above. For a 5'9 male, that's about 205 pounds. So that's a fairly good proxy for actually being fat.

The overweight percentage overall is squishier, because of how low is starts - for our 5'9 male, it starts at 175.

I'd also note that the rates of obesity have skyrocketed, the overall rate of overweight actually hasn't - the number of merely heavyish by BMI people has remained stable (overweight and obese are separate categories in the stats - overweight doesn't include obese within it, and obese doesn't include severely obese)

So, it is absolutely true that more people are fat AND we are fatter individually.

What is not true is that everyone was lean back in the day. Even IF you want exclude everyone who was overweight AND you drop 1/3 of the people obese category (just assume they're muscular) you STILL have ten percent of the population being fat.

They were just less likely to be as fat. But the most charitable interpretation of the stats is that at least ten percent of the population needed to drop at least forty pounds or so.

 
Justin Jordan
*
Total Posts: 837
07-12-22 08:47 PM - Post#920414    



That's based on CDC studies, and the sample sizes were in the thousands.

Anecdotally and observationally, I can actually see something like this in real life. If I go to Manhattan, I am very likely to be one of the largest people I pass on the street at six feet and 230 pounds or so. If I go to any store here in rural Pa, I've got a good chance of seeing bunches of people heavier than me. It's striking.
 
Andy Mitchell
*
Total Posts: 5236
Diet experiment
07-12-22 09:41 PM - Post#920415    



I believe most (60’s to 70’s) were more often than not…malnourished and skinny-fat.
Nice legs-shame about the face




Edited by Andy Mitchell on 07-12-22 09:41 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
Andy Mitchell
*
Total Posts: 5236
07-12-22 09:43 PM - Post#920416    



When I was a kid I didn’t know what a mango was.
We had a very small choice of available food.
Nice legs-shame about the face


 
Laree
*
Total Posts: 25983
info_have_been_training_since: 12-31-79
Real Email Address: ld@davedraper.com
Primary Training Purpose: Fitness and strength beats aging badly
Primary Training Style: Kettlebells and gym full body, structural rehab
(Rhymes with Marie)
Homepage: davedraper.com
Bio: Here's our IronOnline Facebook Group.

Befriend me on Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/people/Laree-Draper/5 71615665

Join me on Twitter:
http://twitter.com/lareedraper

Full name: Laree Draper
Gender: female
Show User Page
(Blog, Gallery, Shoutbox & Buddies etc...): No

Last Login IP: 162.158.166.20
Last Online: 08-13-22
User ID: 3
Login Name: ldraper
Date Agreed to Rules: 12-09-10
Occupation: Website work
Re: Diet experiment
07-13-22 12:27 PM - Post#920435    



  • DanMartin Said:
Over the past year and a half I have lost 50 pounds =/-. The two main factors were/are: Move more*, eat less. YMMV

*It will require a separate thread, but I cannot stress enough how effective Heavy Hands walking is at burning calories. And, to digress, because of Heavy Hands, my resting pulse rate has dropped significantly. YMMV




Hey, Dan, what weight would you use for me? I haven't had those in decades. I just looked and won't be buying HH brand. That price is nuts! But will find an offbrand with the weight already in place. Thanks!


 
DanMartin
*
Total Posts: 20621
Re: Diet experiment
07-13-22 12:52 PM - Post#920438    



  • Laree Said:
  • DanMartin Said:
Over the past year and a half I have lost 50 pounds =/-. The two main factors were/are: Move more*, eat less. YMMV

*It will require a separate thread, but I cannot stress enough how effective Heavy Hands walking is at burning calories. And, to digress, because of Heavy Hands, my resting pulse rate has dropped significantly. YMMV




Hey, Dan, what weight would you use for me? I haven't had those in decades. I just looked and won't be buying HH brand. That price is nuts! But will find an offbrand with the weight already in place. Thanks!




Laree, I was able to find "vintage" AMF Heavy Hands weights on eBay. I didn't think the prices were bad. (That new site that sells the latest versions is way over the top.) That said, I would get a set that is just a pair of handles with 1, 2 and 3 pound weights. That should get you through a year or so before you would need to go heavier, if at all.
Mark it Zero.


 
Laree
*
Total Posts: 25983
info_have_been_training_since: 12-31-79
Real Email Address: ld@davedraper.com
Primary Training Purpose: Fitness and strength beats aging badly
Primary Training Style: Kettlebells and gym full body, structural rehab
(Rhymes with Marie)
Homepage: davedraper.com
Bio: Here's our IronOnline Facebook Group.

Befriend me on Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/people/Laree-Draper/5 71615665

Join me on Twitter:
http://twitter.com/lareedraper

Full name: Laree Draper
Gender: female
Show User Page
(Blog, Gallery, Shoutbox & Buddies etc...): No

Last Login IP: 162.158.166.20
Last Online: 08-13-22
User ID: 3
Login Name: ldraper
Date Agreed to Rules: 12-09-10
Occupation: Website work
07-13-22 03:08 PM - Post#920440    



Thanks Dan! Will try both


 
Old Miler
*
Total Posts: 1735
07-13-22 04:59 PM - Post#920449    



Hi all,

Quick update. On day 7 (minus 3kg) we left the UK for a week-long drive to Croatia. So, no more access to bedroom scales, and 6 more days before we get to compare love-handles on the beach with all the friends we see once a year. We filled the car with healthy snacks, tried to avoid all carbs until the evening, and then allowed ourselves a little wine or beer. My morning run goes WAY faster if I had some carbs the night before.

Then, we got to Italy. At this point, you have no soul if you don't eat, so I stopped caring today. There was even a gelato after dinner.

We are definitely looking significantly slimmer after 10 days or so, and I can't believe how easy and enjoyable it was. Anyhow, from now on, it's hopefully back to plain old healthy eating, avoid carbs when we have a choice, and lots of exercise.
 
WxHerk
*
Total Posts: 317
07-13-22 10:48 PM - Post#920454    



  • Old Miler Said:


Then, we got to Italy. At this point, you have no soul if you don't eat, so I stopped caring today. There was even a gelato after dinner.





If I may beg to differ, you cared about the right thing for that moment. I’m certain that you and Mrs. Miler will remember that fine Italian food and gelato FAR longer than the kg or so you may have added. Oh, and color me envious!!
Just my 2¢


 
Matt_T
*
Total Posts: 331
07-14-22 01:57 AM - Post#920456    



  • WxHerk Said:
  • Old Miler Said:


Then, we got to Italy. At this point, you have no soul if you don't eat, so I stopped caring today. There was even a gelato after dinner.





If I may beg to differ, you cared about the right thing for that moment. I’m certain that you and Mrs. Miler will remember that fine Italian food and gelato FAR longer than the kg or so you may have added. Oh, and color me envious!!


This in spades. What's the point if you can't live a little?
 
Neander
*
Total Posts: 7751
07-14-22 02:06 AM - Post#920457    



  • Quoting:
Over the past year and a half I have lost 50 pounds. The two main factors were/are: Move more, eat less. YMMV



Hello Dan! Long time, eh.

I chose to go from around 190 to under 170 to get a clean sixpack one more time before . . . hey, maybe one more time again later on. Nothing's writ in stone here on this rock.

Except them cave paintings, maybe.

Feels great to be this light! Shining.

All's I did was eat less, that's it. And now, I can play about with a clean slate and build back some strength and yer muscals for fun!

YMMV. That fits perfectly.
If you're not sweating you need to find another gear.



 
DanMartin
*
Total Posts: 20621
Diet experiment
07-14-22 09:31 AM - Post#920464    



  • Neander Said:
  • Quoting:
Over the past year and a half I have lost 50 pounds. The two main factors were/are: Move more, eat less. YMMV



Hello Dan! Long time, eh.

I chose to go from around 190 to under 170 to get a clean sixpack one more time before . . . hey, maybe one more time again later on. Nothing's writ in stone here on this rock.

Except them cave paintings, maybe.

Feels great to be this light! Shining.

All's I did was eat less, that's it. And now, I can play about with a clean slate and build back some strength and yer muscals for fun!

YMMV. That fits perfectly.



My brother...
Mark it Zero.


 
Henry
*
Total Posts: 1316
07-15-22 07:46 AM - Post#920489    



  • Old Miler Said:

We filled the car with healthy snacks.




I'm reminded when I was going to Aikido, the blackbelt instructors did a group trip to Japan. The head Sensei complained about one who is a bodybuilder type person had to stop the groups sightseeing and eat every 2 hours on the trip.



"Go Henry - Live, lift, learn and grow - Never quit - Dave Draper"


 
Matt_T
*
Total Posts: 331
07-15-22 11:45 AM - Post#920495    



  • Henry Said:
  • Old Miler Said:

We filled the car with healthy snacks.




I'm reminded when I was going to Aikido, the blackbelt instructors did a group trip to Japan. The head Sensei complained about one who is a bodybuilder type person had to stop the groups sightseeing and eat every 2 hours on the trip.





Leave Steven Seagal out of this.
 
Andy Mitchell
*
Total Posts: 5236
07-16-22 10:19 PM - Post#920520    



Here’s something I was thinking about after reading a little article by Dave Maurice in 1998, it’s in a Hardgainer mag #66.

If you go to a supermarket and view shopping trolleys they sorta represent your stomach, and a trolley that is full of fresh produce is always going to be a lot less in terms of volume (all things being equal)

Dave’s message back this was; we’re just all eating too much and in particular “processed” carbs, and sweeteners (mostly hidden)
Nice legs-shame about the face


 
Andy Mitchell
*
Total Posts: 5236
Diet experiment
07-16-22 10:21 PM - Post#920521    



Dan Martin usually says many profound things and one thing he said that sticks with me; “if you follow a diet ya sorta got an eating disorder “ he was more eloquent.
I’ve been reading his comments since Garagegym in the 90’s
Nice legs-shame about the face




Edited by Andy Mitchell on 07-16-22 10:23 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
Andy Mitchell
*
Total Posts: 5236
07-16-22 10:29 PM - Post#920522    



At 60 I’ve grown up throughout an interesting era; Aerobics (Ken cooper) Wieder, Arnold, the reliance has been more from receiving external help (relying on others) rather than internal (learning from mistakes)
Nice legs-shame about the face


 
Jordan D
*
Total Posts: 699
Re: Diet experiment
07-17-22 10:15 AM - Post#920526    



  • Andy Mitchell Said:
At 60 I’ve grown up throughout an interesting era; Aerobics (Ken cooper) Wieder, Arnold, the reliance has been more from receiving external help (relying on others) rather than internal (learning from mistakes)



"The Advertising Age"

Honestly, I think advertising may be among the greatest of mankind's evils, though probably unavoidable. So many countries have banned advertising cigarettes and alcohol. Some are now banning advertising of sugary "food" items to kids. Hawaii banned public billboards entirely.

Contemplate this: if you lived in a world without advertising, how would you organize your diet and training?

  • Andy Mitchell Said:
Dan Martin usually says many profound things and one thing he said that sticks with me; “if you follow a diet ya sorta got an eating disorder “ he was more eloquent.
I’ve been reading his comments since Garagegym in the 90’s




That's one of the more profound things I've ever read on this forum.
 
DanMartin
*
Total Posts: 20621
Re: Diet experiment
07-17-22 02:53 PM - Post#920531    



  • Jordan D Said:
  • Andy Mitchell Said:
At 60 I’ve grown up throughout an interesting era; Aerobics (Ken cooper) Wieder, Arnold, the reliance has been more from receiving external help (relying on others) rather than internal (learning from mistakes)



"The Advertising Age"

Honestly, I think advertising may be among the greatest of mankind's evils, though probably unavoidable. So many countries have banned advertising cigarettes and alcohol. Some are now banning advertising of sugary "food" items to kids. Hawaii banned public billboards entirely.

Contemplate this: if you lived in a world without advertising, how would you organize your diet and training?

  • Andy Mitchell Said:
Dan Martin usually says many profound things and one thing he said that sticks with me; “if you follow a diet ya sorta got an eating disorder “ he was more eloquent.
I’ve been reading his comments since Garagegym in the 90’s




That's one of the more profound things I've ever read on this forum.




Diet, just the word flares people up faster than a hemorroid.
Mark it Zero.


 
WxHerk
*
Total Posts: 317
Re: Diet experiment
07-17-22 05:25 PM - Post#920533    



  • DanMartin Said:


Diet, just the word flares people up faster than a hemorroid.




And most diets taste about as good….
Just my 2¢


 
Old Miler
*
Total Posts: 1735
Re: Diet experiment
07-24-22 08:55 AM - Post#920650    



Report 3 weeks in. We got to wife's family beach place, which amazingly the builder had almost finished renovating, so for the first time ever we have a breeze to sleep in, a proper kitchen and shower. We sucked in our abs hard and went down to the harbour wall everyone sits on, and decided we didn't look too shabby. We're awarding ourselves the gold medals in the village over-50 category, but firmly behind two of my wife's friends in their 40s who are ex-models and fitness instructors (and who confessed to starving themselves for a month before holidays each year!).

Henceforth there's a mixture of odd building chores, swimming, paddleboarding and an early evening run; very light lunch at 2pm (heat's great for suppressing appetite), and barbecued fish or meat each night, with one piece of bread to mop the sauce up. Not bothering with keto, it's not compatible with cold beer which is my main carbo-vice here, but I'm pretty sure I'm still shrinking.

Next week my friend who's into kettlebell sport is arriving, so I can get some coaching and crank it up a notch further..




Edited by Old Miler on 07-24-22 08:56 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
WxHerk
*
Total Posts: 317
Re: Diet experiment
07-24-22 02:17 PM - Post#920653    



  • Old Miler Said:
.

Henceforth there's a mixture of odd building chores, swimming, paddleboarding and an early evening run; very light lunch at 2pm (heat's great for suppressing appetite), and barbecued fish or meat each night, with one piece of bread to mop the sauce up. Not bothering with keto, it's not compatible with cold beer which is my main carbo-vice here, but I'm pretty sure I'm still shrinking.

Next week my friend who's into kettlebell sport is arriving, so I can get some coaching and crank it up a notch further..




Life is good. Really delighted to see you enjoying yourselves so.
Just my 2¢


 
 Page 2 of 2 <12
Quick Links: Main Index | Flight Deck | Training Logs | Dan John Deck | Must Reads | Archive | Private Topics
Icon Legend Permissions & Sharing Options Topic options

FACEBOOKFACEBOOK
TWITTERTWITTER
GOOGLEGOOGLE
DIGGDIGG
DELICIOUSDELICIOUS
STUMBLEUPONSTUMBLEUPON
Print topic


3429 Views

Home | Dave's Q&A | IOL Blog | DanJohn.net

What's New | Weekly Columns | Weight Training Tips
General Nutrition | Draper History | IronOnline Forum | IOL Blog | Mag Cover Shots | Magazine Articles | Bodybuilding Q&A | Bomber Talk | Workout FAQs
Site Map | Contact IronOnline | Privacy Policy


Top