Dan John
Total Posts: 12292
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Pontyclun
Total Posts: 2191
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06-07-20 06:57 PM - Post#898859
Both Reebok and Rogue are cutting ties, a lot of gyms have announced they will no longer affiliate with them. and Froning, Davidsdottir and other well known athletes have denounced him. This is going go hit him where it hurts, in his pocket.
| Owen Brown, a Biomedical Scientist from Pontyclun, Wales. |
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Silverback61
Total Posts: 1834
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06-07-20 08:18 PM - Post#898863
Crossfit has always been Lame.
It Is Better To Be Stronger Than You Look, Than Look Stronger Than You Are
My Weights Are In Freedom Units
DEADLIFTS RULE!!
=[[[[[[--------]]]]]]= |
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Kyle Aaron
Total Posts: 1911
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06-07-20 10:05 PM - Post#898865
Starting Strength went through something similar over the Kavanaugh nomination.
I've never understood why the politics of the inventor of a training modality or tool have anything to do with the utility of that modality or tool.
Owners of training gyms tend to be white guys with a working class background. Their fees are such that their clients will be middle class, also mostly white, and all their friends white middle class. If politics comes up there'll be a clash.
In previous years the politics of a training guru wouldn't be a problem, but whether or not he was a heavy drinker, screwed around on his wife etc would. Why do we now care about politics, but not about character? Why have we swapped one puritanism for another?
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BrianBinVA
Total Posts: 5140
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06-07-20 10:36 PM - Post#898866
Starting Strength went through something similar over the Kavanaugh nomination.
I've never understood why the politics of the inventor of a training modality or tool have anything to do with the utility of that modality or tool.
Owners of training gyms tend to be white guys with a working class background. Their fees are such that their clients will be middle class, also mostly white, and all their friends white middle class. If politics comes up there'll be a clash.
In previous years the politics of a training guru wouldn't be a problem, but whether or not he was a heavy drinker, screwed around on his wife etc would. Why do we now care about politics, but not about character? Why have we swapped one puritanism for another?
It's what we do in 'murica, Kyle. Not sure about Oz...
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Brian Hassler
Total Posts: 616
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06-08-20 12:37 AM - Post#898870
In previous years the politics of a training guru wouldn't be a problem, but whether or not he was a heavy drinker, screwed around on his wife etc would. Why do we now care about politics, but not about character? Why have we swapped one puritanism for another?
It's not the concern for character that's changed, it's how people measure it. Being callous or indifferent to issues that profoundly affect millions of people's lives may seem to some to be a better indicator of "character" than if someone likes to drink.
Global pandemics and social justice issues are highly politicized, but an individual's (or company's) choices and the accompanying core values that are brought to light may not be inherently political in nature.
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iPood
Total Posts: 2360
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06-08-20 01:26 AM - Post#898872
Crossfit has always been Lame.
I always thought Crossfit was a wonderful idea... very poorly executed.
"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness
and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums.
It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable.
Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow.
Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't."
Dan Martin |
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Kyle Aaron
Total Posts: 1911
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It's not the concern for character that's changed, it's how people measure it. Being callous or indifferent to issues that profoundly affect millions of people's lives may seem to some to be a better indicator of "character" than if someone likes to drink.
The issues tend to be connected, I think. If a person has integrity in one area of their life they're more likely to have integrity in another, and if they lack it, they lack it.
There's a reason that through most of history we've judged people by their behaviour towards themselves and those close to them, rather than by their abstract views - and let's face it, for most of us political stuff is abstract - it doesn't affect us directly and we'll never be in a position to make a significant difference about it.
In any case, it's not really about politics. From the blog referenced in the articles DJ linked to,
"COVID hit hard. We’ve been closed for 3 months now. Even so, we are amongst the lucky ones. We took a huge hit, but we’re fine. Our community is strong, we pivoted our classes online, we’re fine. But we also realized that we are doing so alone. We do not have the help of the brand that we pay to be affiliated with."
It's just like Starting Strength and when BBM/BBL split from them after Rip said offensive things about Kavanaugh's nomination. Much babble about values or even programming, but really it comes down to money. They decided they could make more money without the parent organisation than with it.
Many Crossfits have done this before: do the cert, get the certification, pay for the affiliation so they can use the name, and build their business - "Crossfit Clayton South" will be found by more people than "Kyle's Gym in Clayton South". Once they've built their business to a level where word of mouth keeps the numbers up, they then ditch the Crossfit affiliation and save themselves $3k a year.
If they're smart they just wait for Glassman to do or say something offensive and do it then, that way they get some publicity to go with it.
Of course, Crossfit and SS are not the only organisations which have gone through this splintering over money. That's just business partnerships for you. If the business does badly, you split because it's the other guy's fault; if it goes well, you split because the other guy is taking too much money, damnit!
Edited by Kyle Aaron on 06-08-20 02:55 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Browser
Total Posts: 507
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06-08-20 07:49 AM - Post#898883
This has nothing to do with politics. It’s about basic human decency. And what you are willing to tolerate from a person you openly associate with.
"The trouble about always trying to preserve the health of the body is that it is so difficult to do without destroying the health of the mind."~GK Chesterton
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Bill Ripley
Total Posts: 213
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06-08-20 08:18 AM - Post#898884
This has nothing to do with politics. It’s about basic human decency. And what you are willing to tolerate from a person you openly associate with.
THIS.
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RupertC
Total Posts: 1479
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06-08-20 09:03 AM - Post#898885
Great startup founders rarely make great CEOs once the business is established. A lot of the things you need to go from zero to one (contrarianism, combativeness, attitude) really don't help if you are trying to go from version 3.51 to version 3.60.
I think CF is an example of that. As iPood correctly said, CF is "a wonderful idea... very poorly executed." It is based around a great insight, particularly the emphasis on community fitness and being an all-rounder. It has developed a strong recognizable brand and the Games were a clever development.
We all know about the mistakes. CF needs much better structure for beginners; significantly more emphasis on safety and lifelong fitness; clear ways of distinguishing professionally run boxes from amateur outfits; much more professional development for affiliates; and less divisive branding. Is Glassman the right man to do that? Almost certainly not! I'm sure that if he decided to sell CF Inc before ruining the brand, private equity firms would be queuing around the block...
| Check out my critical-thinking blog at sharpenyouraxe.substack.com |
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Brian Hassler
Total Posts: 616
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06-08-20 10:23 AM - Post#898888
Kyle - You're a cynic. I don't necessarily disagree with you or think that's a bad thing; however, as evidenced by the posts following yours, there are plenty of folks who feel the current issues are important enough that they genuinely do transcend common patterns of behavior and certain ways of looking at things.
Maybe the gym owner in the article is one of those people, maybe not. Or maybe it falls in between, somewhere. When it gets down to the level of what Browser said, motivations don't really matter, it's behavior that counts.
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Chris Rice
Total Posts: 702
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06-08-20 11:26 AM - Post#898891
Some may have just been looking for an excuse to bail - and this was the straw that did it. Glassman is divisive if nothing else. If a "name" costs $3000 then that name must bring in more that that to be worth having - and I have no idea how valuable that is in a business sense.
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Upside
Total Posts: 185
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06-08-20 11:29 AM - Post#898892
Regardless of money, brand, and all the other buzzwords I find nothing redeeming in Floyd-19. Rationalize all you want but there's no defending that.
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Neander
Total Posts: 7755
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I only have two questions.
Do I need to go to a certified Crossfit gym to train in that way, and
When wasn't Glassman a jerk?
Life's too short to worry about longevity.
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Edited by Neander on 06-08-20 11:48 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Chris Rice
Total Posts: 702
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I only have two questions.
Do I need to go to a certified Crossfit gym to train in that way, and
When wasn't Glassman a jerk?
People have been working out this way for a very very long time - just without the "name" - and some of the dumber movements :)
Edited by Chris Rice on 06-08-20 12:33 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Browser
Total Posts: 507
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06-08-20 01:41 PM - Post#898899
As long as it's fair game to bash crossfit, I'll share my only interaction with them. Well besides them being obnoxious at powerlifting and weightlifting meets (which is a whole different story...with good reason my wife refuses to attend any meets held at crossfit gyms).
Anyway, I was travelling for work probably around 2007-8 and it was squat day. I knew sort of peripherally that crossfit used the olympic lifts and squatted so I dropped in at a 'box' after class to pay the day fee and get my squats in for the week. When I walked in there was a skinny guy leading a group of about 15 people doing stuff. They all sort of stopped and I was like... um can I pay the day fee and workout? The skinny guy said...we don't do that here you have to be in a class. So I left this beautiful warehouse gym with tons of squat racks and good bars that no one was using to go lift at Gold's with garbage bars and people walking on treadmills. Sortof told me all I'd ever need to know about crossfit.
"The trouble about always trying to preserve the health of the body is that it is so difficult to do without destroying the health of the mind."~GK Chesterton
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Silverback61
Total Posts: 1834
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06-08-20 02:16 PM - Post#898900
Crossfit has always been Lame.
I always thought Crossfit was a wonderful idea... very poorly executed.
I can go along with that.
It Is Better To Be Stronger Than You Look, Than Look Stronger Than You Are
My Weights Are In Freedom Units
DEADLIFTS RULE!!
=[[[[[[--------]]]]]]= |
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Old Miler
Total Posts: 1744
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06-08-20 05:10 PM - Post#898907
I always thought Crossfit was a wonderful idea... very poorly executed.
I'm with this. Let's help them think of a snappy new name!
The right coaching guidelines putting safety first, better designed competitive structures, a rankings system measuring vaguely repeatable and useful elements of fitness - so much could be done here...
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Kiwi5
Total Posts: 264
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06-08-20 06:07 PM - Post#898908
Perhaps Chairman Tsatsouline will take over from Glassman...Strongfit. Crossfit could use The Chairman right now....
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Steve W.
Total Posts: 181
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06-08-20 06:36 PM - Post#898909
Crossfit has always been Lame.
I always thought Crossfit was a wonderful idea... very poorly executed.
I have a lot of bad ideas, but they are very well-executed.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; in practice, there is.
Just because it happened to you doesn't make it interesting. |
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Silverback61
Total Posts: 1834
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06-08-20 07:00 PM - Post#898910
Perhaps Chairman Tsatsouline will take over from Glassman...Strongfit. Crossfit could use The Chairman right now....
That sounds like an excellent idea, Comrade.
It Is Better To Be Stronger Than You Look, Than Look Stronger Than You Are
My Weights Are In Freedom Units
DEADLIFTS RULE!!
=[[[[[[--------]]]]]]= |
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vegpedlr
Total Posts: 1179
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06-08-20 09:52 PM - Post#898918
Regardless of money, brand, and all the other buzzwords I find nothing redeeming in Floyd-19. Rationalize all you want but there's no defending that.
Why would they even bother to post anything of the kind? This isn’t just a question for xfit. Given the butter polarization of American politics, why would anyone put up stuff that will rule people up, guaranteed? I’m not sure the old saying that there’s so such thing as bad publicity is as true anymore.
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Neander
Total Posts: 7755
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I only have two questions.
Do I need to go to a certified Crossfit gym to train in that way, and
When wasn't Glassman a jerk?
People have been working out this way for a very very long time - just without the "name" - and some of the dumber movements :)
Hey Chris!
Yeah, but won't my body know that I'm not in a certifiable Crossfit location? 
Life's too short to worry about longevity.
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DanMartin
Total Posts: 20705
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06-08-20 11:23 PM - Post#898921
I agree with the good ideas poorly executed theory.
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Andy Mitchell
Total Posts: 5269
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06-09-20 02:15 AM - Post#898929
This seems to happen often with franchise.
But why are the owners whining like an old diff?
Why make a big fuss?
Nice legs-shame about the face
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Kiwi5
Total Posts: 264
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06-09-20 02:22 AM - Post#898930
I wonder, what is the Crossfit market share (compared to other commercial gyms)? Is Crossfit that big a deal in the US fitness/sports world?
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iPood
Total Posts: 2360
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06-09-20 02:46 AM - Post#898931
I wonder, what is the Crossfit market share (compared to other commercial gyms)? Is Crossfit that big a deal in the US fitness/sports world?
Eleven thousand "boxes" all over the world in 2015 and an estimate of four billion dollar annual revenue.
Today is much more.
"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness
and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums.
It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable.
Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow.
Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't."
Dan Martin |
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BChase
Total Posts: 854
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06-09-20 06:31 AM - Post#898933
FIrst Glassman is a churl, and always has been.
During the Covid pandemic there were other gyms that didn't cover themselves in glory. The Boston Athletic Clubs were still charging members even though they couldn't use the gym.
A lot of franchisees get pounded with royalty fees to use the name.
I believe that Ms Royse found an opening/reason to get out of being a
CrossFit affiliate and is using it to her advantage.
Of course Glassman doubles down and is going to lose sponsors. This will pass and there will be new companies trying to get off the ground who will be begging to be chosen.
Which brings us to the second problem. Why does everyone feel forced to make a statement to answer the mob? What if you don't believe in the movement? It's pandering at its worst.
Answering to the mob because of social media is one of the worst things occurring in American society today. Look at Drew Brees for prime example number 1. The man gives $5M to help his community. Let me repeat that number $5M. He is treated by a pariah for having a different opinion. The cancel culture stinks.
Arguing politics on the internet, which let me state, I'm not doing here, is like screaming in an echo chamber. No one is going to change each other's minds.
I'd rather waste my energy on my kettlebell.
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RupertC
Total Posts: 1479
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Justin Jordan
Total Posts: 854
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06-09-20 07:12 AM - Post#898938
"Answering to the mob because of social media is one of the worst things occurring in American society today. "
Hahahahahaahaha
No.
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BChase
Total Posts: 854
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06-09-20 07:30 AM - Post#898939
"Answering to the mob because of social media is one of the worst things occurring in American society today. "
Hahahahahaahaha
No.
Ah, yes, it's cutting into your 1st amendment rights of freedom of speech.
Honest question, do you believe Drew Brees should have been castigated publicly for his remarks about the anthem and forced to apologize?
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Chris Rice
Total Posts: 702
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06-09-20 08:28 AM - Post#898943
Given any named workout program - most people will only follow it as written for a fairly short period of time before "adjusting" it to their own version - regardless of who the author is. When I read about what the "Games" athletes are doing - it bears little resemblance to what I read online as "Crossfit" but appears more traditional but with a lot of "skills" work to anticipate what they will see in competition.
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DanMartin
Total Posts: 20705
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For a brief period, CrossFit encouraged the home trainee to utilize their programming with a minimal amount of equipment.
Then the MLM monster took over. And greed ruled the day.
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Brian Hassler
Total Posts: 616
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06-09-20 10:09 AM - Post#898949
No one needs an "opening" to stop being an affiliate. All they have to do is stop paying. The notion that someone needs the excuse of fake morality really doesn't make sense.
And, of course, box owners are not the only ones who might need to choose. Individual members, of any organization, at some point need to take a look at what they're supporting and decide if that's how they want to align themselves and/or what they want their dollars to fund.
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dlannan
Total Posts: 23
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Here's another article that shows Glassman's colors:
https://medium.com/@mikeyoungphd/why-im- dumping-crossfit-47ad6a1a 0216
I think most of the de-affiliation and shaming is an attempt to get Glassman out of there, for a variety of reasons - including firings and restructurings over the last couple of years that have hurt the brand. They hardly have a marketing department anymore, and that was vital to growing the brand.
If affiliates simply stop paying, it does hurt his pocketbook, but it removes them from the "community" as a whole. I think affiliates see CrossFit as more valuable when all of the gyms are united under one umbrella. Some of the bigger gyms that have recently left will be fine on their own, because they've built their brand locally, but most other gyms are probably dead long-term without some sort of larger backing.
Edited by dlannan on 06-09-20 11:09 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Old Miler
Total Posts: 1744
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I would imagine that there is some benefit to being part of a larger umbrella. People in town for a few days, or moving to town, will look for their local "Crossfit box". A bit like me looking up the local Hash House Harriers when I visit a new city, although XFit sounds less fun and more painful..
You get similar business situations with RyanAir, Tesla, or - dare I say it - national leaders in UK/US/Brazil/Indonesia - CEOs who like to mouth off or speak on a whim and cause a whole lot of grief. Problem is, in business, if they own most of it, you can't shift them, just counsel them to keep quiet for a while, until they do it again.
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Justin Jordan
Total Posts: 854
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06-09-20 08:32 PM - Post#898966
"Answering to the mob because of social media is one of the worst things occurring in American society today. "
Hahahahahaahaha
No.
Ah, yes, it's cutting into your 1st amendment rights of freedom of speech.
Honest question, do you believe Drew Brees should have been castigated publicly for his remarks about the anthem and forced to apologize?
I can't imagine how easy and stress free a person's life would have to be to think that 'social media making people apologize' is one of society's worst problems.
But yes, I am fine with Drew Breeze being 'forced' to apologize. It's his right to say it. It's people's right to criticize it. It's his employer's right to fire his butt if they don't like the former two.
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jp92
Total Posts: 650
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06-09-20 09:05 PM - Post#898967
Col. Chris Hadfield, Canadian Astronaut and Commander of the International Space Station on what he would say to his younger self:
Link
Pope John Paul II:
“The fundamental error of socialism is anthropological in nature. Socialism considers the individual person simply as an element, a molecule within the social organism, so that the good of the individual is completely subordinated to the functioning of the socio-economic mechanism. Socialism likewise maintains that the good of the individual can be realized without reference to his free choice, to the unique and exclusive responsibility which he exercises in the face of good or evil. Man is thus reduced to a series of social relationships, and the concept of the person as the autonomous subject of moral decision disappears, the very subject whose decisions build the social order. From this mistaken conception of the person there arise both a distortion of law, which defines the sphere of the exercise of freedom, and an opposition to private property. A person who is deprived of something he can call “his own,” and of the possibility of earning a living through his own initiative, comes to depend on the social machine and on those who control it. This makes it much more difficult for him to recognize his dignity as a person, and hinders progress towards the building up of an authentic human community.”
In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus says:
3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are they who mourn, for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the land.
6 Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be satisfied.
7 Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the clean of heart, for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.
10 Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
(Bold above is my emphasis).
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Adam S
Total Posts: 629
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"Answering to the mob because of social media is one of the worst things occurring in American society today. "
Hahahahahaahaha
No.
Ah, yes, it's cutting into your 1st amendment rights of freedom of speech.
Honest question, do you believe Drew Brees should have been castigated publicly for his remarks about the anthem and forced to apologize?
I can't imagine how easy and stress free a person's life would have to be to think that 'social media making people apologize' is one of society's worst problems.
But yes, I am fine with Drew Breeze being 'forced' to apologize. It's his right to say it. It's people's right to criticize it. It's his employer's right to fire his butt if they don't like the former two.
Well said. Could not agree more.
In addition, the news tonight on what else Mr. Glassman said is even more hair-raising. Not surprisingly, he seems to have now “retired.”
| Why are you squatting in the curl rack? |
Edited by Adam S on 06-09-20 10:42 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Kiwi5
Total Posts: 264
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06-10-20 12:04 AM - Post#898971
Crossfit is probably to big to fail, new boss, lots of positive left leaning statements...boom sponsors come back.
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RupertC
Total Posts: 1479
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Great startup founders rarely make great CEOs once the business is established. A lot of the things you need to go from zero to one (contrarianism, combativeness, attitude) really don't help if you are trying to go from version 3.51 to version 3.60.
I think CF is an example of that. As iPood correctly said, CF is "a wonderful idea... very poorly executed." It is based around a great insight, particularly the emphasis on community fitness and being an all-rounder. It has developed a strong recognizable brand and the Games were a clever development.
We all know about the mistakes. CF needs much better structure for beginners; significantly more emphasis on safety and lifelong fitness; clear ways of distinguishing professionally run boxes from amateur outfits; much more professional development for affiliates; and less divisive branding. Is Glassman the right man to do that? Almost certainly not! I'm sure that if he decided to sell CF Inc before ruining the brand, private equity firms would be queuing around the block...
Combative founder of startup turned into multinational says something stupid, it blows up in his face and he is forced to resign to save his equity. It isn't the first example and it won't be the last!
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryancbrooks/c rossfit-ceo-founder-zoom- greg-glassman-george-floy ...
| Check out my critical-thinking blog at sharpenyouraxe.substack.com |
Edited by RupertC on 06-10-20 02:50 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Neander
Total Posts: 7755
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Greg Glassman:
“I’m stepping down as CEO of CrossFit, Inc., and I have decided to retire. On Saturday I created a rift in the CrossFit community and unintentionally hurt many of its members. Since I founded CrossFit 20 years ago, it has become the world’s largest network of gyms. All are aligned in offering an elegant solution to the vexing problem of chronic disease. Creating CrossFit and supporting its affiliates and legions of professional trainers has been a labor of love.
Those who know me know that my sole issue is the chronic disease epidemic. I know that CrossFit is the solution to this epidemic and that CrossFit HQ and its staff serve as the stewards of CrossFit affiliates worldwide. I cannot let my behavior stand in the way of HQ’s or affiliates’ missions. They are too important to jeopardize.”
Silly me.
I thought profit was the sole issue.
Still do, to tell the truth.
Mammon. There's a word that's seems to (cross) fit here.
Life's too short to worry about longevity.
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Edited by Neander on 06-10-20 04:05 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Browser
Total Posts: 507
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06-10-20 09:11 AM - Post#898988
Crossfit is probably to big to fail, new boss, lots of positive left leaning statements...boom sponsors come back.
Again, it's not a left or right thing. It's a basic human decency thing.
"The trouble about always trying to preserve the health of the body is that it is so difficult to do without destroying the health of the mind."~GK Chesterton
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Cearball
Total Posts: 273
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06-11-20 07:40 AM - Post#899030
This is happening a bit with strong first.
SFGs are leaving & it seems to be based around BLM.
I don't want to share the forum & Instagram posts as I am not sure what the correct forum etiquette is.
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Chris Rice
Total Posts: 702
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06-11-20 08:07 AM - Post#899032
Some of these things remind me of a "cult" - from both the top and the members - too much "worship".
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Kyle Aaron
Total Posts: 1911
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06-11-20 08:51 AM - Post#899035
Perhaps Chairman Tsatsouline will take over from Glassman...Strongfit. Crossfit could use The Chairman right now....
Because of Tsatsouline's history of close friendships and selfless unflinching loyalty maintained through business disputes?
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Dan John
Total Posts: 12292
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06-11-20 09:45 AM - Post#899042
Clearball, feel free to share those. I don't follow it close enough. Only my emails and texts boxes are jammed with mostly "WTF??? SFG?"
So, if you can, it would help.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...
Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you |
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Cearball
Total Posts: 273
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Cearball
Total Posts: 273
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06-11-20 09:57 AM - Post#899044
I think they would of been better off saying nothing.
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