Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets -
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Display Name Post: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets        (Topic#4594)
Trance
*
Total Posts: 723
06-30-05 02:34 AM - Post#116887    



Note: This review is rather long. It turned out to be more involved than I had originally expected, so I apologize in advance for the length. I hope, though, that you'll see it may be worth the trouble. And if you're currently taking a desiccated liver supplement, some of what I found my be surprising! --Trance

Since the dawn of history, liver has been eaten fresh from the hunt almost as a ceremony of the prey animal's strength, courage, and endurance. Primitive man had no knowledge of vitamins, but his instincts were fairly good. It was customary, after the killing of a buffalo or large game, he would eat parts of the liver or other internal organs raw, almost immediately. Even today, some indigenous cultures around the world continue this practice of reserving the liver of animals for their leaders, warriors, and athletes. Warriors we are.

What Is It?
========


Everyone's grandmother served them liver, usually some messy concoction involving onions, at least once in their life. She assured you lovingly that it was good for you, as you looked at it like a plate of poison had been set before you. Don't worry about the smell. Just a rose spoiled. Why does granny's house always smell funny anyway? And why are the dinner table legs always sitting in little tins of water? Ants!

Back to dinner .. Liver -- this was when your culinary gauntlet was laid down for the first time in your young life -- either you loved it, or you vowed never to approach the stuff again without threatening granny's life first, rest of the family and your inheritance be damned.

But granny was right, just as she always has been as you got older, you've noticed. It is good for you. Bodybuilders and other athletes realized it early on too, but they hated the taste as well. So someone decided to take all the liquid and fat out of it, and put it in a tablet so it could be swallowed without tasting it. Goodness! Genius!

Today, desiccated defatted liver is whole beef liver that has been concentrated using a vacuum and freeze drying process, utilizing no heat in the procedure. This process concentrates the nutritional content while removing the fat, connective tissues, and water without destroying any of the healthful ingredients via heat.

In almost all cases, the desiccated liver comes from fresh, hormone-free, organically raised, Argentine beef liver, carefully processed to preserve all the nutritional elements while removing any unnecessary components.

Why Argentina?
============


First, the cows supposedly live a life of luxury at home in the Pampas region of Argentina. A region of Argentina that is fertile in natural alfalfa, wheat, and oat grasses. The cattle roam freely on the grand, rich, grasslands. Organic cattle in the Pampas are required by the Argentine Cattle Association to be raised "stress free." They are never given any hormones, branded, or herded aggressively. The animals live outside, free range, running free. Law requires one acre of pasture land per organic designated cow. La Moo.

Just as the liver concentrates everything that is good for the body, it can also concentrate everything that is bad. Cattle from other countries, good ole USA included, have hormones, chemicals, antibiotics, pesticides & herbicides (from the plant matter they eat), fertilizers, drugs, steroids, and who knows what else, possibly concentrated in their livers. Not to mention the practice of taking meat scraps from the slaughter house and recycled back to the other cows. Mad cow. Madder mad cow. Wash. Repeat.

Be sure to look for Argentinean, organic, liver in any product you choose.

What's In It?
=========


Well, umm ... liver.

Protein: 60-80%.

Vitamins: A, B-complex (B-1, B-2, B-6, B-12, choline, inositol, biotine, niacin, pantothenic acid, folic acid, PABA), C, D, E, K, lipotropics choline & inositol.

Minerals: calcium, chromium, copper, heme iron, manganese, phosphorus, potassium, selenium, sodium, & zinc.

Amino acids: alanine, arginine, aspartic acid, cysteine, cystine, glutamic acid, glycine, histidine, isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, proline, serine, threonine, tyrosine, tryptophan, valine

According to Vince Gironda, the "Iron Guru", in addition to these known nutrients, there are substances present in liver that have a beneficial effect on health, fitness, and endurance -- such as cytochrome P-450 (more about this later) and others yet to be identified. He said that desiccated liver contains nucleic acids for proper amino acid utilization, a growth factor, and an anti-estrogen factor, which keeps testosterone levels high, and it is also a great anti-toxin.

Heme Iron
========


Iron is an essential mineral and an important component of proteins involved in oxygen transport and metabolism within your body. Almost two-thirds of the iron in your body is found in hemoglobin, the protein in red blood cells that carries oxygen to your body's tissues. Smaller amounts of iron are found in myoglobin, a protein that helps supply oxygen directly to muscle tissue, and in enzymes that assist biochemical reactions in cells. About 14-16 percent of your body's iron is stored for future needs and mobilized when dietary supplies are inadequate. The remainder iron is in your body's tissues as part of proteins that help your body function.

There are two forms of iron available from your diet: Heme and Non-Heme. Heme iron is found in red meats, poultry, and fish. Non-Heme iron is found in both plant, animal, and mineral sources. Note that Heme iron is not available from any vegetarian source in any significant quantity, if at all.

Now, exactly what is the difference between the two, and why would anyone care, you ask?

Well, most iron supplements found in your neighborhood health food store are 'inorganic', which is not easily absorbed by your body and can cause symptoms such as abdominal cramping, diarrhea, dark stools, etc. It can even be dangerous if too much is taken -- this is the Non-Heme iron. It's generally a molecule of iron compound not 'organically wrapped'. Non-Heme iron tends to be poorly absorbed, and is well known to generate the formation of free radicals, molecules that damage cell membranes throughout the body. Think of it as particles of rust, circulating throughout your body. Where's the Rust-Oleum?

That's why our body has magically found a way insulate us from our own body's iron by placing it within what is called a Heme ring (hemoglobin), effectively wrapping the iron in a plastic coated cover, keeping it pure and non-rusted. We need the iron for oxygen transfer, but we also need to be protected from it internally. Heme iron is this same natural form of iron already found and used in our own body. Rarely has an overdose occurred in taking Heme iron supplements. It's readily absorbed, and almost immediately usable by your body.

The richest source of natural occurring Heme iron is liver.

Again, remember that Heme iron is involved in every process of oxygen transfer in your body, and almost all metabolic & protein synthesis processes.

The Mysterious Cytochrome P-450
=========================


Vince Gironda mentioned it decades ago, and many current advertisements mention it with, or without, giving him credit. I'm willing to bet none of the advertisers know what it is or what it does.

Our liver pills have P-450 components! Don't trust those other guys! And besides, they're using platypus livers!

However, no one ever attempts to explain exactly what this mysterious P-450 component is, or what it does.

I won't either.

Okay, not really, especially since you've made it this far

Cytochrome P-450 is a family of the body's more powerful detoxification enzymes. Over 60 forms are now known, with hundreds of genetic variations possible, producing a wide variety of susceptibility to specific toxins. This is an enzyme family that your body uses to attack substances that you ingest -- substances that it considers detrimental, foreign, or poisonous to your operating system, by making them more water soluble in an attempt to eliminate them from your body through normal means.

For instance, in the case of carbon monoxide poisoning, your P-450 response immediately attempts to capture and isolate the CO molecules to protect your body from being poisoned. If the response is small, such as from a cigarette, or breathing exhaust fumes, your body has the ability to neutralize the attack through the P-450 enzyme reactions quickly and efficiently. Of course, like many systems, it too can be overwhelmed and possibly fail. On the other hand, it only makes sense that if you can supplement your body's natural P-450 defense system, you only make it stronger.

In fact, it is such a powerful responder, that pharmaceutical companies have to design their new drugs around your body�s P-450 attack responders, spending literally millions of research dollars to work around it.

Cytochrome P-450 proteins in humans are also drug metabolizing enzymes and enzymes that are used to make cholesterol, steroids, and other important lipids in your body.

The name Cytochrome P-450 derives from the manner in which they reflect light under analysis, and that these proteins have a Heme group attached. There's that 'Heme' word again. Beginning to notice a pattern here?

Many of the ancillary functions of P-450 hadn't been fully understood until the Human Genome Project had been completed in 2003, along with further DNA experimentation, and the genes for P-450 were specifically investigated. The first crystallization of a mammalian P-450 substance, for instance, didn't occur until 1999.

How Vince Gironda was on to this substance in the early '70s is anyone's guess. Genius? Psychic? Alien? Cranky alien?

Okay, Enough Already -- What Do Liver Tablets Do?
========================= ============


Desiccated Liver, the Wonder Energy Food!, Vince Gironda, Blueprint for the Bodybuilder

Claims are made that liver supplements improve fat metabolism, increase energy, increase stamina, help damaged tissues regenerate, curb sugar cravings, and protect the liver. Desiccated liver helps to increase red blood cell count and stimulate appetite. As a side note, anabolic steroids also stimulate appetite and increase red blood cell count.

It may also work as an anti-stress agent, alleviate gum problems, treat anemia, and help produce stronger functioning red blood cells. In addition, it has been proven to help improve recovery time after physical workouts.

The iron and B vitamins in desiccated liver tablets contribute to bone health, muscle building, and immune functioning. Liver is also a great source of the vitamin B-12. B-12 plays an important role in cellular division and is vital to growth. In addition, it assists the body with the burning of fats and carbohydrates. A deficiency of B-12 can also lead to anemia and fatigue. It also seems to play a large role in protection against heart disease.

In a now classic experiment in the '50s, Dr. BH Ershoff demonstrated that liver extract was able to boost strength, endurance, performance, and resistance to stress and disease.

Ershoff took three groups of rats and fed them controlled diets for a 12 week period. Group 1 ate a basic diet fortified with vitamins and minerals. Group 2 ate as much as they wanted of the same diet plus B vitamins and brewer's yeast. Group 3 ate the basic diet but had 10% desiccated liver added to their rations.

The rats were then placed into a drum of water, which they could not climb out of. Therefore, it was literally either sink or swim. The Group 1 rats swam an average of 13.2 minutes before they all drowned. Group 2 swam an average of 13.4 minutes before meeting Group 1 at the ole Davy Jones' Locker. Group 3, however, were still swimming at the end of 2 hours, at which time the experiment was concluded, and the rats set free in a field nearby. Now, either the Group 3 rats had watched the fate of their classmates very closely, or the liver had something to do with them swimming almost 10 times as long.

The Tablet Reviews
==============


When I first began this experiment, I picked up a bottle of desiccated liver tablets from my local Whole Foods store. The only brand of desiccated liver that they carried was Nature's Life Beef Liver. I began by taking 2 tablets every couple of hours, until I was taking about 6 tablets 4-5 times a day.

After two weeks of this regime with the Nature's Life brand, the things I noticed most, from a workout & personal perspective, were the increased stamina, increased energy, quicker recovery times, and less DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness).

I later purchased Universal Uni-Liver, Beverly International Ultra-40, and NOW Liver, which seemed to be the more popular brands that I could find. I used each one over a three week period to see if there were a better response from one brand or the other based on my own personal experience.



Interestingly, it seemed I got a better response from my first default choice, Nature's Life Beef Liver, followed somewhat by Beverly International's Ultra-40.

I didn't notice any of the beneficial effects that I had previously, while using NOW Liver or Universal Uni-Liver tablets. Hmmmm.

Also, some of these tablets, most notably Universal's Uni-Liver, are probably some of the largest tablets you may ever attempt to swallow.


Side note: Some of these products will indicate their tablet size in grains rather than milligrams. Just multiple the number of grains by 60 to get the approximate milligram size that most of us are use to.

Tablet Dissolving Test
================


I was curious about how effective these tablets were, considering the size and hardness of some of them, and the fact that the NOW and Universal brands provided no perceived benefits to me in my individual 3-week tests. I was curious as to why. So, I set up a dissolving test for each tablet suspecting that might be the problem.

A healthy human stomach is acidic, in the range of 1.5 to 3.5 pH, on average.

I placed each tablet in a hydrochloric acid solution with a pH value of 2.5.

Here is a photo, after 5 minutes:


Interestingly, the Uni-Liver and Nature's Life tablets both floated, while the other two sunk to the bottom. In addition, the NOW Liver tablet began bubbling almost immediately. All of this is probably related to the different binding ingredients used in each brand of tablet.

Now, after 35 minutes, here's what we have:


This isn't completely scientific, because I haven't completely duplicated the process of the stomach, in that I did not provide any type of mixing or churning action that the stomach would naturally do while digesting food, and I didn't keep the temperature at approximately 99 degrees as would be the case in a healthy stomach.

However, I now had some evidence as to why the Nature's Life product was the best performing product of my test group. It naturally dissolved faster than any of the other products, and thus allowing more complete absorption. You can also see that the Beverly International product is in a state of dissolving as well.

Even more interesting, is that the Universal Uni-Liver product never showed any signs of dissolving. I continued to allow these samples to sit for another 2 hours ... of course, after 2 hours these would have long vacated your stomach, but in the interest of curiosity I continued on. At the end of the 2 hours time, all the other products had dissolved completely, except the Uni-Liver product remained exactly as you see it above!

End Thoughts
==========


Well, if you've made it this far reading all of this, you're probably curious whether the benefits of desiccated liver tablets are real? I'll have to agree that they are, in my opinion. Try them yourself if you aren't already, and you'll see. Give it a couple of weeks to reap the benefits.

In addition, you're wondering what do about the size of the tablets, and the fact that some of them aren't easily dissolved in your stomach?

There are two solutions:

1) Use a liver powder. Let me know how you like that. No, on second thought never mind ... I know that answer.

2) Or we have to go back and visit our ole loveable 'liver & onion' granny again. "Chew everything you put in your mouth, son -- chew it good before you swallow. Chew it. Wanna borrow my teeth, dearie?"

Information & Ingredient Lists
=======================


Beverly International Ultra-40: 500 tablets per bottle, 2600 mg. MSRP $45.00. Ingredients: Argentinean Desiccated Liver (as 4x concentrate) 2600mg, Vitamin B-12 (as cyanocobalamin) 75mcg. Other ingredients: Cellulose, Calcium Phosphate, Magnesium Stearate, & Silicon Dioxide

http://www.bodybuildingworld.com

Nature's Life Beef Liver: 100 tablets per bottle, 1500 mg. MSRP $9.45. Ingredients: Argentinean Beef Liver. Other ingredients: Gelatin, Guar Gum, Vegetarian Stearic Acid, Silicon Dioxide, Cellulose, Vegetarian Magnesium Stearate, & Micro-Cellulose Coating.

http://www.natureslife.com

NOW Liver: 200 tablets per bottle, 680 mg. MSRP $5.99. Ingredients: Beef Liver Powder (Argentine, Low Heat). Other Ingredients: Calcium Carbonate, Stearic Acid, Croscarmellose Sodium, & Magnesium Stearate.

http://www.nowfoods.com

Universal Uni-Liver: 500 tablets per bottle, 1950 mg. MSRP $20.95. Ingredients: Desiccated bovine liver. Other Ingredients: Whey, Terra Alba, Choline Citrate, Inosital Monophosphate, Magnesium Stearate, & Stearic Acid.

http://www.universalnutrition.com

Street prices on all of these brands are considerably lower than MSRP on many of the online supplement sites.

Trance
 
RichardC
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Total Posts: 116
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
06-30-05 03:41 AM - Post#116888    



Thanks, Trance. Very, very interesting...
 
bulch
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Total Posts: 4276
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
06-30-05 04:40 AM - Post#116889    




Thanks trance, CB recommended these to me, so very interesting to read.

Glad to hear good reports about them since i've just ordered 1000 tablets.

b
Best thread ever! :)


 
Vince
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Total Posts: 1461
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
06-30-05 07:11 AM - Post#116890    



...I have been taking the Beverly Ultra 40 - about 20 a day - for about a week. I recoverd quickly after a very heavy workout. I am guessing that it was because of adding liver tablets. I take in plenty of whey protein, but have not eaten meat in 15 years. I am sure that the liver adds something that I have been missing. As Trance stated, the steers eat a vegitarian diet. Since I am eating tablets made from a vegitarian animal, then I still qualify as a vegitarian - right? Besides, after it's all processed and packaged it doesn't even look like meat. And you don't have to cook it. I would like my lver tablets well-done, please - onions on the side.
 
Wicked Willie
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Total Posts: 16779
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
06-30-05 08:46 AM - Post#116891    



Good job, Trance!

Wicked
"I'm in good shape for the shape I'm in."

"Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life:
no man comes to the Father, but by me." John 14:6


 
Manor
*
Total Posts: 6773
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
06-30-05 08:46 AM - Post#116892    



What can I say, Awesome!
aka SAVAGE/JDIDAN/Dan the Protein Man

You can't choose your parents however you can choose your lifestyle

Earn your supplements

The most important stack you can do are big plates.- Sweatn


 
Yeti
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Total Posts: 6587
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
06-30-05 08:59 AM - Post#116893    



Nice review, Trance. Perhaps I should throw my Uni-Liver in the trash. I have been crunching them lately, though. Taste like chocolate.......
"When [defeat] comes, I won't even notice. I'll be too busy looking good."


 
Laree
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Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
06-30-05 12:39 PM - Post#116894    



Wow, Trance. Thanks for taking the time to write this up and do the photos for us. Excellent job.


 
Vic
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Total Posts: 208
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
06-30-05 12:47 PM - Post#116895    



Great job Trance! Thanks!
 
CB
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Total Posts: 5666
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
06-30-05 12:56 PM - Post#116896    



Thanks and nice goin Trance. I prefer NSP and currently chew 4, 7 times a day. I've been eating liver tabs for over a year now and noticed increased
stamina, energy, strength, recuperation and muscle. I tried Uni-Liver but had to increase dosage gradually and could never eat more than 4 at a time as they upset my stomach. Uni-Liver is cheaper but taste gag nasty and they really aren't cheaper if you aren't digesting and assimilating them properly like I wasn't. NSP taste much better, I have no stomach duress with them and can eat as many as I want with out gradually increasing the dosage.
CB
 
bulch
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Total Posts: 4276
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
06-30-05 01:44 PM - Post#116897    




Ah, that's interesting, i didn't know you had to chew them. It makes sense though.
Best thread ever! :)


 
CB
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Total Posts: 5666
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
06-30-05 02:01 PM - Post#116898    



Quote:

bulch said:

Ah, that's interesting, i didn't know you had to chew them. It makes sense though.



Sure, after all they're just highly concentrated food.
CB
 
Ms. KO
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Total Posts: 1856
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
06-30-05 02:03 PM - Post#116899    



Thanks so much for all this, Trance. I'm pretty hooked on liver pills. Nice to have all that information. The depth of Vince's wisdom, even today, sometimes defies explanation. But it is, by and large, solid as a rock and just as timeless.

Does anyone know why they make you have to pee all the time?



 
Michael Testa
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Total Posts: 98
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
06-30-05 02:07 PM - Post#116900    



I've been chewing between 15 and 20 NSP liver tabs a day, along with 6 total glandulars throughout the day. I have gotten leaner during this time, and my workouts continue to get better.
"Michael, let your freak flag fly."--Dan Martin


 
CB
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Total Posts: 5666
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
06-30-05 02:18 PM - Post#116901    



Quote:

KO said:

Does anyone know why they make you have to pee all the time?



I've not known them to have this effect.
How much water are you drinking ? And Vitamin C are you taking ? They will increase the frequency of your potty breaks. I was told to never pass up a water fountain. When I took this advice I was never able to pass up a restroom either. [smile]
CB
 
Ginger
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Total Posts: 2493
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
06-30-05 02:20 PM - Post#116902    



Great review!
 
CB
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Total Posts: 5666
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
06-30-05 02:22 PM - Post#116903    



Quote:

Michael Testa said:
I've been chewing between 15 and 20 NSP liver tabs a day, along with 6 total glandulars throughout the day. I have gotten leaner during this time, and my workouts continue to get better.



Hey Mike,
What advantages or results have you noticed with the glandulars ? What brand are they ? And what do these little delicacies taste like ?
CB
 
cajinjohn
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Total Posts: 12495
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
06-30-05 02:31 PM - Post#116904    



KO asked why do they make you pee all of the time.
Because if you don't you will explode, and make a mess.
It don't matter


 
rvan
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Total Posts: 744
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
06-30-05 02:53 PM - Post#116905    



I use Beverly tabs 5 times a day. Usually chewing them.
 
Ms. KO
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Total Posts: 1856
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
06-30-05 04:28 PM - Post#116906    



Quote:

CB said:
Quote:

KO said:

Does anyone know why they make you have to pee all the time?



I've not known them to have this effect.
How much water are you drinking ? And Vitamin C are you taking ? They will increase the frequency of your potty breaks.




I'm not drinking all that much water - I should drink more. About a half hour to an hour after I take the liver pills, I "gotta go gotta, go right now". It feels like I've taken a strong diuretic. I can't take the vitamin c because even with prilosec my ulcer will not hear of it. All my other supps are acceptable, though. It feels to me - and I'm just going on what it feels like - that the liver pills rev up my metabolism. It just seems like it makes me burn a bit hotter, and if that were the case, then everything else might be accelerated, too...ahem.

I wish I had a Vince Gironda Magic 8 Ball for answers, though they might be punctuated with expletives. "My sources say "no"..a**hole!"

Hey, there's a marketing opportunity. He probably had enough stock answers to make one quite feasible.



 
Ms. KO
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Total Posts: 1856
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
06-30-05 04:34 PM - Post#116907    



Quote:

cajinjohn said:
KO asked why do they make you pee all of the time.
Because if you don't you will explode, and make a mess.




Did Vince tell you that himself? I believe you.



 
Wicked Willie
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Total Posts: 16779
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
06-30-05 04:49 PM - Post#116908    



Leave it to Cajin to reduce it to its visceral essence.

Wicked
"I'm in good shape for the shape I'm in."

"Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life:
no man comes to the Father, but by me." John 14:6


 
CB
*
Total Posts: 5666
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
06-30-05 06:10 PM - Post#116909    



KO,
Are you taking the kelp ? That steps up the metabolism too.
CB
 
Ms. KO
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Total Posts: 1856
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
06-30-05 07:37 PM - Post#116910    



Yes but not as often as the liver tabs.



 
Amazonblonde
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Total Posts: 12642
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
06-30-05 07:38 PM - Post#116911    



I have an interest in trying these.....do you take them thru out the day certain times or just in the am and pm or?
Obsessed is a word the lazy use to describe the dedicated!!!


 
CB
*
Total Posts: 5666
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
06-30-05 07:44 PM - Post#116912    



Quote:

KO said:
Yes but not as often as the liver tabs.



How often and how many ?
CB
 
CB
*
Total Posts: 5666
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
06-30-05 07:48 PM - Post#116913    



Quote:

Amazonblonde said:
I have an interest in trying these.....do you take them thru out the day certain times or just in the am and pm or?



Either way but most eat them every 2-3 hours throughout the day. I just keep a handfull in my pocket. Remember me feeding them to your Rotties after they were sniffing my pockets ? [grin]
CB
 
Ms. KO
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Total Posts: 1856
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
06-30-05 07:58 PM - Post#116914    



Quote:

CB said:
Quote:

KO said:
Yes but not as often as the liver tabs.



How often and how many ?
CB




Three with each meal, five or six times a day.



 
CB
*
Total Posts: 5666
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
06-30-05 08:09 PM - Post#116915    




Quote:

KO said:
Yes but not as often as the liver tabs.



How often and how many kelp ?
CB




Three with each meal, five or six times a day.



To find your personal tolerance level with kelp increase your dosage by 1 tablet each serving every day or two. When you begin to feel hyper or edgy then reduce the dosage by 1 tablet per serving and that is your personal tolerance level. You can also take these just 3 times a day but 5 or 6 is fine too if you like that.
CB
 
The Judge
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Total Posts: 16397
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
06-30-05 08:59 PM - Post#116916    



Trance,

The review was interesting but it appears like something you copied and posted. I have noticed others like this. It would be helpful to know when something is copied where it came from because there sometimes is a prejudice when a company writes up a review.

As was said in the article, putting tabs in acid in a dish is not really an accurate way of testing whether or not it is digestible but sometimes it is the best we have. I was disappointed to see Universal's didn't break down since I use them. May have to rething using them if I know where the article came from.

Thanks.
Judge John

"You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves." - Abraham Lincoln

"I live, I lift, I ache, I am." - Dave Draper

"Moderation assures mediocrity -- nice, safe. Mediocrity is for the mediocre -- simple, okay. The intense rule; the mediocre follow." - Dave Draper

Every day innocent plants are killed by vegetarians. Help stop the slaughter. EAT MEAT!


 
CB
*
Total Posts: 5666
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
06-30-05 09:07 PM - Post#116917    



No problemo Judge just eat em. [grin]
CB
 
The Judge
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Total Posts: 16397
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
06-30-05 09:16 PM - Post#116918    



Sorry CB, but chewing those babies is out of the question! After years of ingesting foul tasting supplements (like Protein from the Sea - ask cajin about that one), I now longer will suffer those insults to my taste buds. Each time I drink a glass of Bomber Blend, I know how lucky I am not to have to drink those protein supplements of the past.
Judge John

"You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves." - Abraham Lincoln

"I live, I lift, I ache, I am." - Dave Draper

"Moderation assures mediocrity -- nice, safe. Mediocrity is for the mediocre -- simple, okay. The intense rule; the mediocre follow." - Dave Draper

Every day innocent plants are killed by vegetarians. Help stop the slaughter. EAT MEAT!


 
Trance
*
Total Posts: 723
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
07-01-05 12:41 AM - Post#116919    



Quote:

The Judge said:
Trance,

The review was interesting but it appears like something you copied and posted. I have noticed others like this. It would be helpful to know when something is copied where it came from because there sometimes is a prejudice when a company writes up a review.

As was said in the article, putting tabs in acid in a dish is not really an accurate way of testing whether or not it is digestible but sometimes it is the best we have. I was disappointed to see Universal's didn't break down since I use them. May have to rething using them if I know where the article came from.

Thanks.



No, I actually wrote it, over a couple of weekends & late nights, using a variety of sources, and personal experience.

Of course the theoretical data can be researched from multiple sources. The Ershoff rat experiment, Gironda's writings, P-450 history, etc -- they're going to be the same, if accurately interpreted, between any writings. I was going to footnote the references I used for some of the technical data that I interpreted, but it was already getting somewhat burdened with technical jargon that I was trying to avoid. In fact, I left a lot of ancillary technical stuff out that was taking it beyond a "simple" review & history.

I didn't use any particular manufacturer's information as a source either, other than to list the ingredients claimed -- and some didn't even provide that on their websites, and I had to read it off the bottles. Of course, they will also be referencing some of the same data, most notably again Gironda's writings and feelings, in their advertisements.

My personal experience with the Uni-Liver though reflects that fact, that for me in any event, it wasn't being utilized or digested when swallowed. The tablet test did confirm what I was suspecting just based on the difference in physical feelings I associated through each 3 week period with each product. The Uni-Liver tablets were probably being completely eliminated, in original form ... but I didn't dig that far into finding that out for sure, in my own experimentation. ;)

I would be interested, for example, if you personally switched to the Nature's Life or Beverly (I think Laree sells it here) brand for 3-4 weeks, and see if it makes a difference for you, since you're not chewing the Uni-Liver tablets either.

I'm going to have to try chewing them next to see what difference it makes, but I haven't talked myself into that just yet ...

Trance
 
Yeti
*
Total Posts: 6587
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
07-01-05 08:46 AM - Post#116920    



Quote:

Trance said:

I'm going to have to try chewing them next to see what difference it makes, but I haven't talked myself into that just yet ...

Trance




Do it.
"When [defeat] comes, I won't even notice. I'll be too busy looking good."


 
ll-j-ll
*
Total Posts: 1144
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
07-01-05 10:37 AM - Post#116921    



Trance...
I have had a life long aversion to liver, despite my parent's best intentions. I never could keep the stuff down.

BUT your wonderful write up has me thinking I oughta give it a go sometime. Thanks for the information! This is bound to be an IOL classic post.
j
"We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, and famous?' Actually, who are you not to be?"
~Marianne Williamson


 
bulch
*
Total Posts: 4276
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
07-01-05 10:55 AM - Post#116922    




With liver tablets, are they best eaten with meals or inbetween on their own?

I have been biting them up then washing them down with water or juice. They do taste pretty grim :@(

bulch
Best thread ever! :)


 
Trance
*
Total Posts: 723
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
07-01-05 11:06 AM - Post#116923    



Quote:

bulch said:

With liver tablets, are they best eaten with meals or inbetween on their own?

I have been biting them up then washing them down with water or juice. They do taste pretty grim :@(

bulch



A lot of people like using them as their snack meal, or between meals, since at the higher tablet quantity they are pretty much a meal in their own right, especially as a boost to protein intake. I doubt that it would make too much of a difference though if you wanted to take them as part of a meal.

Personally, I usually take 6 tablets every 3-4 hours with a copious swig of water. Also, I be sure to swallow a handful with my preworkout drink (fast whey & water), about 30-40 minutes before heading to the gym.

Trance
 
*
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
07-01-05 11:15 AM - Post#116924    



CB what brand do you take....and what brand of kelp

Art
 
pointcove
*
Total Posts: 1136
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
07-01-05 01:34 PM - Post#116925    



Trance, do you intend to try having this published in a magazine.
John...Pointcove


 
Trance
*
Total Posts: 723
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
07-01-05 03:06 PM - Post#116926    



Quote:

pointcove said:
Trance, do you intend to try having this published in a magazine.



I was just writing it to document my experiment, and toned it up to make it a more interesting read here.

Everyone knows, or should know, that the major fitness & bodybuilding magazines are all owned by various supplement companies. Look for the greatest number of pages of advertisements by one company in your fitness magazine, and you can be assured that’s the company that owns the magazine you’re reading.

Before Weider sold his empire, his magazines were becoming nothing more than giant monthly catalogs. It’s still pretty much the same, now that I think about it.

No fitness magazine would publish it anyway, because I'm not touting one of their specialized supplements. And any magazine that would be independent enough to be considered, wouldn’t publish it because it’s pitting possible, or current, advertising clients against each other.

Interesting, though, I’ve always thought there should be some independent “Consumers Report” kind of magazine, or group, that would take supplements, and products, raved about in the various fitness magazines and independently analyze them for actual contents, test for the claims made, determine effectiveness, etc. Ah well …

Trance
 
The Judge
*
Total Posts: 16397
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
07-01-05 04:09 PM - Post#116927    



Trance,

I apologize for posting that I thought the article might have been copied. I hope you take it as a compliment since I was surprised that you did that much work with experiments and all. It was also well written. It sure is informative enough to be published but, like you said, muscle publications are commercially involved and they want to show that their product is the best.

I hope you will write more in the future.

BTW, no way can I chew those damn things! I will just hope that my stomach acids will do the job. Maybe I will try another brand next time and see if I feel a difference. I must say, I have felt more energetic in the gym since I started the liver this round. Could be other factors though - even psychological.
Judge John

"You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves." - Abraham Lincoln

"I live, I lift, I ache, I am." - Dave Draper

"Moderation assures mediocrity -- nice, safe. Mediocrity is for the mediocre -- simple, okay. The intense rule; the mediocre follow." - Dave Draper

Every day innocent plants are killed by vegetarians. Help stop the slaughter. EAT MEAT!


 
CB
*
Total Posts: 5666
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
07-01-05 04:59 PM - Post#116928    



Quote:

Art V said:
CB what brand do you take....and what brand of kelp

Art



NSP. Believe me gang they taste a whole lot better than Uni-Liver. I could not chew Uni-Liver they tasted so bad. I had to crush them with a meat mallot and wash them down with copious amounts of water. I eat them with and between meals and can chew NSP with out any water they taste that much better and often do when I'm on the run. In fact I'm doing so as I write this. You can purchase NSP right here at www.davedraper.com or call Ron Kosloff at 313-372-1807. He sells kelp too if you're interested in that. Before taking kelp read my previous post to determine the dosage for your personal tolerance level or just ask Ron if you call him, and tell him how you learned of him. That will help get him to enter the 20th century and get a computer and web site. Yes I know this is the 21st century but anyone without a computer hasn't even entered the 20th yet.
CB
 
Deston Fallon
*
Total Posts: 333
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
07-02-05 12:22 AM - Post#116929    



I chew the Nature's Life and they taste pretty bad . . . . . I think I got them from Whole Foods in Dallas.
 
Chris McClinch
*
Total Posts: 8538
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
07-02-05 11:33 AM - Post#116930    



Quote:

KO said:
I wish I had a Vince Gironda Magic 8 Ball for answers, though they might be punctuated with expletives. "My sources say "no"..a**hole!"

Hey, there's a marketing opportunity. He probably had enough stock answers to make one quite feasible.




"Magic Vince Ball, how's my physique?"

"You look like a fat f*** to me!"
The more I eat and the heavier I train, the better my genetics get.

If you're not paraplegic and not squatting, please kick your own ass for me."

"Do you really think that the reason most guys don't have big arms is purely because of a lack of doing curls?" --Alwyn Cosgrove

"There is only one gram of carbs in STFD and no carbs at all in STFU." --Byron Chandler

"Use meaningful loads to achieve results." --Big Vic

http://www.stoneagefitnessconcepts.com


 
Ms. KO
*
Total Posts: 1856
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
07-02-05 11:55 AM - Post#116931    



Quote:

Chris McClinch said:
Quote:

KO said:
I wish I had a Vince Gironda Magic 8 Ball for answers, though they might be punctuated with expletives. "My sources say "no"..a**hole!"

Hey, there's a marketing opportunity. He probably had enough stock answers to make one quite feasible.




"Magic Vince Ball, how's my physique?"

"You look like a fat f*** to me!"




I think about 90% of the free world could use a Magic Vince Ball. Oprah sure as hell isn't going to break the news to them.



 
Tim Mendelsohn
*
Total Posts: 1557
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
07-02-05 12:32 PM - Post#116932    



Quote:

KO said:
Quote:

Chris McClinch said:
Quote:

KO said:
I wish I had a Vince Gironda Magic 8 Ball for answers, though they might be punctuated with expletives. "My sources say "no"..a**hole!"

Hey, there's a marketing opportunity. He probably had enough stock answers to make one quite feasible.




"Magic Vince Ball, how's my physique?"

"You look like a fat f*** to me!"




I think about 90% of the free world could use a Magic Vince Ball. Oprah sure as hell isn't going to break the news to them.




Funny stuff guys!

:)

Tim
 
Subeer
*
Total Posts: 1214
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
07-03-05 01:40 AM - Post#116933    




Trance

Good writing.

Your writing was precise and well thought out, and Judge felt that you copied it, it was that good...

Looking into my options
Subeer
Life's a rock 'n roll
Means you keep rocking and rolling, no matter what, no matter how much; while people feel that you have to smash into the rocks and roll into a ditch...


 
Laree
*
Total Posts: 25974
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Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
07-03-05 01:18 PM - Post#116934    



Call Ron at 313-372-1807; we don't carry the liver tabs 'cause we had Beverly's in stock with we started with the NSP products. Pretty soon I'm hoping Tamas will be done with Ron's website so people who no longer use the telephone can order. (Yes, there are many of us out here since the internet is so convenient!) Once that happens, we'll send our online NSP customers to Ron direct.


 
Dan Coletta
*
Total Posts: 162
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
07-03-05 05:52 PM - Post#116935    



This is Aimee , Dan's better half. (LOL) Dan was telling me about this post. Wow. It sounds like this would be something good for me to take. After having our son Josh, I learned that I am anemic. I feel sluggish most days. I am curious if anyone knows if this would be safe for me to take while I am nursing? I know I can't take anything with Glutamine in it and these have glutamic acid-Is that similar?? I plan to discuss with my doctor and my son's pediatrician as well as my pharmacist. If anyone has any opinions or info, I would love to hear it. I am one to research a ton especially while nursing. I will get many opinions and inoformation before I start to take these. Thanks in advance.
Happy 4th!!!
Aimee Coletta
Dan C.


 
Trance
*
Total Posts: 723
Re: Review: Desiccated Liver Tablets
07-04-05 12:13 AM - Post#116936    



A friend sent me a bunch of old bodybuilding magazines a while back, and as I was flipping through some tonight I came across this.

This is an advertisement from the July 1964 issue of "Muscle Builder". It was interesting reading this in context with this thread.

This particular issue has a young Dave Draper on the cover, too.

Trance

PS. Oh, it's easier to read this ad if you click on the "Attachment" link above.
 
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