Easy-ish Strength with Jim Wendler's 75% Volume Work -
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Display Name Post: Easy-ish Strength with Jim Wendler's 75% Volume Work        (Topic#36855)
blkjss
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Total Posts: 2211
08-23-19 10:11 PM - Post#886700    



After a few cycle of 5-3-1, I embarked on the 75% Volume Work.

The first work out is nice and reminded me how I wasn't (still isn't?) very good with "going by feel with the poundage and volume", like when I did the 40 Days Workout, starting too heavy, adding weight too quickly.

It will be a good training for me, not only to work on crisp reps but also to listen to my body.

He said in Beyond 5-3-1(page 75) that you could stay on it for a long time.

3-10 sets of 3-5 reps with 75% of your "training max" (read 5-3-1 or Beyond 5-3-1 for more info)

I train twice a week so bench/squat + something else on one day and press/rack Pull + something else for another day.

Yesterday I did Did 5 reps X 6(or 7??) sets bench 42.5KG, super se 2 reps X 5 set chin up , and 5reps x 5sets Squat 65KG

Try to get more volume next week if it is too easy.

After 2 - 3 cycles, You are supposed to do 3-10 sets with 85% of your TM before going to a meet

I would do 40 days workout again but it works better for me to 2 x 60mins session than 5 X 25mins sessions due to set up time.

My training log




Edited by blkjss on 08-23-19 10:13 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
iPood
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Total Posts: 1780
08-24-19 02:17 AM - Post#886704    



Ten sets with your 85% of your training max seems anything but "easy".
"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness
and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums.
It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable.
Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow.
Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't."

Dan Martin


 
Cearball
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Total Posts: 103
08-24-19 04:30 AM - Post#886709    



I remember hearing about this before.

Sounds good to me.

I would probably do the 85% whether I was going to a meet or not.
 
Cearball
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Total Posts: 103
Easy-ish Strength with Jim Wendler's 75% Volume Work
08-24-19 04:37 AM - Post#886710    



also I quite like tactical barbell Operator I/A programme as it is similar to this but ramps the weight over a 10 workout cycle up to 85/90%.

Session 10 is a max test ramping to up the weight a single.

Edited by Cearball on 08-24-19 04:50 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
iPood
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Total Posts: 1780
Re: Easy-ish Strength with Jim Wendler's 75% Volume Work
08-24-19 06:03 AM - Post#886713    



  • Cearball Said:
also I quite like tactical barbell Operator I/A programme as it is similar to this but ramps the weight over a 10 workout cycle up to 85/90%.

Session 10 is a max test ramping to up the weight a single.



TB = 5/3/1 + PttP
"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness
and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums.
It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable.
Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow.
Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't."

Dan Martin


 
blkjss
*
Total Posts: 2211
08-24-19 06:28 AM - Post#886714    



  • iPood Said:
Ten sets with your 85% of your training max seems anything but "easy".



Yeah, 85% of your training max (0.85-0.9 X your sort of max) for 10 sets of 3 won't be that easy.

But 75% of the TM for sets of 5 is pretty easy, if I stopped doing more sets when I know I have enough.
My training log


 
AAnnunz
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Total Posts: 22635
Easy-ish Strength with Jim Wendler's 75% Volume Work
08-24-19 08:40 AM - Post#886721    



  • blkjss Said:
  • iPood Said:
Ten sets with your 85% of your training max seems anything but "easy".



Yeah, 85% of your training max (0.85-0.9 X your sort of max) for 10 sets of 3 won't be that easy.

But 75% of the TM for sets of 5 is pretty easy, if I stopped doing more sets when I know I have enough.


Several powerlifting gurus have jumped on the high volume with submaximal loads bandwagon in recent years. I wish you the best with Wendler's program, but if that's too much, take a look at Swede Burn's 5th Set. It is more doable**, and friends who have tried it have made impressive gains.

** Similar loads, but with slower progression. Fewer sets and reps (4x2 + one amrap) with target weight.
Be strong. Be in shape. Be a man among men, regardless of your age or circumstances.




Edited by AAnnunz on 08-24-19 08:41 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
Justin Jordan
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Total Posts: 562
08-24-19 04:26 PM - Post#886737    



  • iPood Said:
Ten sets with your 85% of your training max seems anything but "easy".



Well, 85% is meet prep, not the 'easy' part.

Although 85% of 90% would be easy for me for most things, but I may have an odd strength curve. Heck, I am currently doing 5 by 5 as back off stuff after three sets of heavy triples with that percentage for upper body, and I don't consider it hard - I'm like two, maybe three reps shy of failure with it on the last set.
 
iPood
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Total Posts: 1780
08-24-19 06:05 PM - Post#886743    



  • Justin Jordan Said:
  • iPood Said:
Ten sets with your 85% of your training max seems anything but "easy".



Well, 85% is meet prep, not the 'easy' part.

Although 85% of 90% would be easy for me for most things, but I may have an odd strength curve. Heck, I am currently doing 5 by 5 as back off stuff after three sets of heavy triples with that percentage for upper body, and I don't consider it hard - I'm like two, maybe three reps shy of failure with it on the last set.



That's not really surprising, considering you must have followed the program from the Hercules Method.

"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness
and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums.
It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable.
Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow.
Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't."

Dan Martin


 
blkjss
*
Total Posts: 2211
Re: Easy-ish Strength with Jim Wendler's 75% Volume Work
08-24-19 06:24 PM - Post#886744    



  • AAnnunz Said:


** Similar loads, but with slower progression. Fewer sets and reps (4x2 + one amrap) with target weight.




Nice!
I will have a read.
Jim Wendler has a sample 13 weeks progression. Basically add more sets slowly.

Like 3 weeks or 5 sets of 5, 3 weeks of 7 sets of 5, with the same weight!
My training log


 
Justin Jordan
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Total Posts: 562
08-24-19 08:25 PM - Post#886747    



  • iPood Said:
  • Justin Jordan Said:
  • iPood Said:
Ten sets with your 85% of your training max seems anything but "easy".



Well, 85% is meet prep, not the 'easy' part.

Although 85% of 90% would be easy for me for most things, but I may have an odd strength curve. Heck, I am currently doing 5 by 5 as back off stuff after three sets of heavy triples with that percentage for upper body, and I don't consider it hard - I'm like two, maybe three reps shy of failure with it on the last set.



That's not really surprising, considering you must have followed the program from the Hercules Method.





Aside from the urge for wanton destruction, they're the best!
 
Kyle Aaron
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Total Posts: 1674
Re: Easy-ish Strength with Jim Wendler's 75% Volume Work
08-25-19 05:36 PM - Post#886786    



  • blkjss Said:
The first work out is nice and reminded me how I wasn't (still isn't?) very good with "going by feel with the poundage and volume", like when I did the 40 Days Workout, starting too heavy, adding weight too quickly.



This is why in Kyle's Easy Strength, we stay strictly in the 60-80% range. So long as the 1RM test was good, capping it at 80% of that - the worst that happens is you end up doing 5 doubles, and the experience is so slow and not easy that you don't repeat it.

The hard floor of 60% stops you wussing out, and the hard ceiling of 80% stops you being a meathead.

  • AAnnunz Said:

Several powerlifting gurus have jumped on the high volume with submaximal loads bandwagon in recent years.


That's because powerlifting has gone from being for a few drug-using talented guys in gear to involving a lot of drug-free untalented people lifting more-or-less raw. We now get more people at a local gym's novice meet than we used to get at a country's Nationals.

Drug-using talented guys wearing gear can handle a lot of 85+% training, drug-free untalented people lifting more-or-less raw cannot. The gurus have (some of them) learned from their experiences, and have learned to tailor their programming to more than their six buddies in the leaky shed where nobody ever cleans the toilet.
Athletic Club East
Strength in numbers




Edited by Kyle Aaron on 08-25-19 05:38 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
Jordan D
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Total Posts: 175
Re: Easy-ish Strength with Jim Wendler's 75% Volume Work
08-26-19 09:20 AM - Post#886810    



  • Kyle Aaron Said:
The gurus have (some of them) learned from their experiences, and have learned to tailor their programming to more than their six buddies in the leaky shed where nobody ever cleans the toilet.




Ahhh. I miss that place.

Ours had a sauna that could give you an infection from twenty yards away.
 
RupertC
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Total Posts: 1326
Re: Easy-ish Strength with Jim Wendler's 75% Volume Work
08-26-19 09:52 AM - Post#886811    



  • Kyle Aaron Said:

This is why in Kyle's Easy Strength, we stay strictly in the 60-80% range. So long as the 1RM test was good, capping it at 80% of that - the worst that happens is you end up doing 5 doubles, and the experience is so slow and not easy that you don't repeat it.

The hard floor of 60% stops you wussing out, and the hard ceiling of 80% stops you being a meathead.





This is gold! I came to similar conclusions for my own training, based on a little N=1 experimentation.
"If I had eight hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend six hours sharpening my ax"


 
Heck
*
Total Posts: 38
08-26-19 11:38 AM - Post#886813    



I had some solid success with something like this approach recently on a pinch-grip Saxon bar. Basically, take whatever round number was squarely between 70-80%, do sets of 5 with it twice a week, and when 5x5 feels easy, test (about once a month) and recalculate. Afterward, add 10ish pounds or whatever allows me to start with a feeling like I had at the start of the last cycle.

It meant I used the same weight for 2-3 week straight, but it gave me some solid gains that more aggressive peaking plans hadn't in the past.
 
blkjss
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Total Posts: 2211
08-26-19 11:05 PM - Post#886873    



I just want to clarify that the 75% is based on "training max" which is around 90% of your sort of max :-)

Did 5 sets of 5 with press.
I just realised that it is not easy to do 5x5 good crisp reps.

it is a good way to practise my technique!
My training log


 
Cearball
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Total Posts: 103
08-29-19 07:46 PM - Post#887036    



Can you keep us updated with how this works for you?

I would be interested.
 
IB138
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Total Posts: 9274
Re: Easy-ish Strength with Jim Wendler's 75% Volume Work
09-19-19 02:35 PM - Post#887959    



  • AAnnunz Said:
  • blkjss Said:
  • iPood Said:
Ten sets with your 85% of your training max seems anything but "easy".



Yeah, 85% of your training max (0.85-0.9 X your sort of max) for 10 sets of 3 won't be that easy.

But 75% of the TM for sets of 5 is pretty easy, if I stopped doing more sets when I know I have enough.


Several powerlifting gurus have jumped on the high volume with submaximal loads bandwagon in recent years. I wish you the best with Wendler's program, but if that's too much, take a look at Swede Burn's 5th Set. It is more doable**, and friends who have tried it have made impressive gains.

** Similar loads, but with slower progression. Fewer sets and reps (4x2 + one amrap) with target weight.



Kaz trained mostly volume back in the day.
Peace ~ Bear



 
blkjss
*
Total Posts: 2211
11-12-19 01:31 AM - Post#890194    



Update: it is getting harder and sometimes I couldn't keep the reps crisp.

I love the simplicity of the it.

Up to the 3rd cycle now.

2019-08-30 FRI 531 75% C1W2D1
bench 42.5KG 5 rep(s) x 8 set(s)
pull up 1 rep(s) x 6 set(s)
back squat 57.5KG 5 rep(s) x 8 set(s)

2019-09-03 TUE 531 75% C1W2D2
Forgot to log

2019-09-06 FRI 531 75% C1W3D1
bench 42.5KG 5 rep(s) x 9 set(s)
chin up 2 rep(s) x 7 set(s)
back squat 57.5KG 5 rep(s) x 8 set(s)

2019-09-10 TUE 531 75% C1W3D2
rack pull 76KG 5 rep(s) x 4 set(s)
rack pull 86KG 5 rep(s) x 4 set(s)
mil press 32.5KG 5 rep(s) x 5 set(s)

2019-09-13 FRI 531 75% C2W1D1
bench 45KG 5 rep(s) x 5 set(s)
chin up 2 rep(s) x 5 set(s)
back squat 63.5KG 5 rep(s) x 5 set(s)
(Long break due to family sickness and overseas holiday)

2019-10-13 SUN 531 75% C2W1D2
rack pull 86KG 5 rep(s) x 6 set(s)
mil press 32.5KG 5 rep(s) x 5 set(s)

[ date unknown]. 75% C2W2D1
bench 45KG 5 rep(s) x 5 set(s)
back squat 63.5KG 5 rep(s) x 4 set(s)
always rushing, time poor, only doing the main lifts most of the time
there are big non-lifting related massive blood blisters on my left hand, lifting is affected.

2019-10-24 THU 531 75% C2W2D2
mil press 32.5KG 5 rep(s) x 6 set(s)
rack pull 86KG 5 rep(s) x 6 set(s)

2019-10-27 SUN 531 75% C2W3D1
bench 45KG 5 rep(s) x 6 set(s)
back squat 63.5KG 5 rep(s) x 5 set(s)

2019-10-29 TUE 531 75% C2W3D2
mil press 32.5KG 5 rep(s) x 6 set(s)
rack pull 86KG 5 rep(s) x 6 set(s)

2019-11-01 SUN 531 75% C3W1D1
bench 45KG 5 rep(s) x 7 set(s)
back squat 63.5KG 5 rep(s) x 3 set(s)
sick / bad day

2019-11-05 TUE 531 75% C3W1D2
mil press 32.5KG 5 rep(s) x 7 set(s)
rack pull 86KG 5 rep(s) x 7 set(s)

2019-11-08 FRI 531 75% C3W2D1
bench 47.5KG 5 rep(s) x 5 set(s)
back squat 65KG 5 rep(s) x4 set(s)

2019-11-11 MON 531 75% C3W1D2
mil press 35KG 5 rep(s) x 5 set(s)
rack pull 90 KG 5 rep(s) x 5 set(s)

last set of mil press wasn’t very good
My training log


 
iPood
*
Total Posts: 1780
11-12-19 07:11 AM - Post#890205    



I would use a wider range: between 60% and 80% percent (Kyle Schuant's style).
"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness
and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums.
It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable.
Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow.
Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't."

Dan Martin


 
12bernd
*
Total Posts: 155
11-12-19 07:56 AM - Post#890207    



Can you explain what the 75% means? Is that just a rough estimate and you then just do a bunch of sets of 5? Or is there a more sophisticated progression behind this?
 
blkjss
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Total Posts: 2211
11-12-19 05:41 PM - Post#890234    



It is the 75% of the 5-3-1 "training max"
I rounded the number up to 0.5 KG.

You might need to give 5-3-1 a read.
It is a classic
My training log


 
blkjss
*
Total Posts: 2211
12-01-19 09:52 PM - Post#890928    



It is going well so far

This is cycle 1, week 1:

2019-08-23 FRI 531 75% C1W1D1

Bench 42.5KG 5 reps X 6 sets
Back Squat 57.5 5 reps x 5 sets

2019-08-26 MON 531 75% C1W1D2

Rack Pull 81.5 5 reps X 6 sets
Press 32.5 5 reps X 5 sets

This is middle of cycle 2 after a long break (illness and not lifting related hand injury):

[ date unknown]. 75% C2W2D1
bench 45KG 5 rep(s) x 5 set(s)
back squat 63.5KG 5 rep(s) x 4 set(s)

2019-10-24 THU 531 75% C2W2D2
mil press 32.5KG 5 rep(s) x 6 set(s)
rack pull 86KG 5 rep(s) x 6 set(s)

And this is now I finish cycle 3:

2019-11-15 FRI 531 75% C3W3D1
bench 47.5KG 5 rep(s) x 6 set(s)
back squat 65KG 5 rep(s) x4 set(s)

2019-11-18 MON 531 75% C3W3D2
mil press 35KG 5 rep(s) x 5 set(s)
rack pull 90 KG 5 rep(s) x 5 set(s)

I moved on to 85% doing sets of 3 last week:

New Training Max
mil press 46.6 to 48
rack pull 120 to 125
bench press 63.5 to 65
back squat 86.5 to 90

2019-11-25 MON 531 85% C1W1D1
mil press 41KG 3 rep(s) x 5 set(s)
rack pull 106 KG 3 rep(s) x 4 set(s)

2019-11-28 THU 531 85% C1W1D2
bench 55KG 3 rep(s) x 5 set(s)
back squat 65KG 3 rep(s) x4 set(s)

Will milk it for a cycle or two and will move on to Boring but Big
My training log


 
blkjss
*
Total Posts: 2211
12-22-19 11:44 PM - Post#891690    



During my 85% (not easy-ish anymore) volume phrase (sets of 3), I upped the load of my overhead press to 42.5 and it is getting a bit too much.

I decided to test my lifts and then restart 531 with a lower poundage.

Last night I worked on barbell overhead press and it was an easy-ish double with 47.5KG. I decided to try a single of 50KG, it wasn't TOO hard but there were some grinding for sure.

This is a PB! My old PB was 47.5 for 1.
My training log


 
Steve Rogers
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Total Posts: 4769
12-23-19 10:06 AM - Post#891699    



Congrats on the PB!
"Coyote is always waiting, and Coyote is always hungry."


 
blkjss
*
Total Posts: 2211
12-26-19 07:10 PM - Post#891828    



Thanks, Steve!
My training log


 
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