Is there a program that teaches you how to get off the floor? -
davedraper.com home Home | Dave's Q&A | IOL Blog | DanJohn.net
Shout box
Recent topics


Dan John's Wandering Weights: Our Epic Journey Through All Things Heavy
Click here for details and to sign up for this FREE weekly commentary

*****

Dave Draper’s Musclebuilding Q&A

Dan John
Dave's Current Article
Draper Photo Gallery
Book Recommendations
Sample Workout Routines Unanswered Topics
Early IOL Email Archive
IOL Forum FAQ


Current Quote
"It takes an injury, a hardship, to gain our attention, re-right our priorities and stir our gratitude. An injury is a valuable tool to teach us training focus and true exercise performance."
~ Draper
Quick Links: Main Index | Flight Deck | Training Logs | Dan John Deck | Must Reads | Archive | Private Topics

Display Name Post: Is there a program that teaches you how to get off the floor?        (Topic#36977)
paulrc
*
Total Posts: 134
11-13-19 12:32 AM - Post#890248    



Today my 71 year old neighbor fell and could not get up. His wife asked me to pick him up off the floor. I was able to get him into his seat with great struggle. Fortunately he did not break anything.

He actually has a dog that he walks a few times a week. He is not obese by any means but he did not have the strength to get to his knees and get up.

Is there a program out there that the forum recommends to teach an older person(my Dad) to get off the floor? Specifically I am looking for a program that teaches people who currently cannot get off the floor to get off the floor.


Thank you

Paul

Edited by paulrc on 11-13-19 12:34 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
12bernd
*
Total Posts: 155
11-13-19 02:52 AM - Post#890251    



Sorry to hear that.

My grandmother (turned 81 in October) had lost a lot of strength following full knee replacement early this year and saw good results doing machine based strength training with a physical therapist. I don't know the details but from what I heard from her it sounded like the typical 3 sets of 8-12 reps doing leg presses and rows. Plus walking stairs and practicing tricky everyday activities.

She went from not being able to walk a flight of stairs without pausing and needing help getting out of her bed to being able to tend to her garden and flowers on her own.
 
Boogieman
*
Total Posts: 49
11-13-19 07:14 AM - Post#890258    



May not be exactly what you’re looking for, but I’d look into GMBs programs, specifically “Elements”. Send them an email, they’re very helpful, and if they think they aren’t what you’re looking for, they’ll tell you! (From my experiences at least.)


 
Dan John
*
Total Posts: 11322
11-13-19 08:01 AM - Post#890261    



Absolutely: strength training is a miracle worker. As is walking. Let me add a few things.

Taylor Lewis taught me a good thing years ago: I always focused on "fall breaking" or tumbling. He noted that I should also work on NOT falling with people. He called it Stumble Proof.

Here is a quick little series:

March in Place holding broomsticks (in the middle) with vigorous arm movements. IF the person can't do this without slapping themselves in the face, stay there. This was a game changer (like Six Point Rocks) in my THR recovery. It highlights asymmetries immediately. Address those as best you can.

Next, gentle speed skaters where you go laterally side to side (Lateral Skating in Place?) From there, teach the person to lead with ear. I might have an instagram video on this. With athletes, we hand them a ball and they hold it with the chin to the neck and it reveals all the former issues. (Pushing the problem). After we take the ball out: new athlete.

With the MIP and Skate work, SLOWER is better. Trying to pause on one foot WITH the ear lead is challenging balance.

Quick note: floss and brush on one foot. If possible, switch hands brushing and try to stand on one foot: this will surprise you.

Look up "Vertical Bird Dogs" and read my article on it for the next step.

Once the one legged stuff comes around, trying standing on one foot and touching that down foot with the opposite hand. Holding is the key: this is stumble proofing.

From there, go to my Youtube and watch "Get Back Ups." Add as appropriate.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
iPood
*
Total Posts: 1780
Is there a program that teaches you how to get off the floor?
11-13-19 08:15 AM - Post#890262    



Get back ups are one of my go-to resets (yes, I know it's not an OS movement, but still...).
"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness
and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums.
It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable.
Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow.
Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't."

Dan Martin




Edited by iPood on 11-13-19 08:16 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
Brian Hassler
*
Total Posts: 409
11-13-19 10:39 AM - Post#890268    



Some good stuff here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT-IqnS87tY

 
DanMartin
*
Total Posts: 20113
Is there a program that teaches you how to get off the floor?
11-13-19 10:58 AM - Post#890272    



DMPM...I'm kidding. However, someone at 71 is not that old, but, obviously that gentleman is, for the time being.

Deep knee bends would be my first choice. (I don't like the term "air squats" anymore.)
Practice what you suck at.


 
vegpedlr
*
Total Posts: 864
11-13-19 02:20 PM - Post#890281    



This is important stuff. My mom toward the end of her life couldn’t get up off the floor either.
 
DanMartin
*
Total Posts: 20113
11-13-19 03:44 PM - Post#890286    



Checkout on YouTube Jay Armstrong's Simplified Fitness.
Practice what you suck at.


 
Neander
*
Total Posts: 7314
Is there a program that teaches you how to get off the floor?
11-13-19 06:13 PM - Post#890291    



  • Quoting:
Taylor Lewis taught me a good thing years ago: I always focused on "fall breaking" or tumbling. He noted that I should also work on NOT falling with people. He called it Stumble Proof.



I agree that this is very important as we age. Loss of balance, slowed reaction time and falling can cause real serious injuries in the elderly.

Plan ahead while you can!

Dan, that progressive one-legged stuff and all the variations are golden, eh. The book that turned me on to it is too!
The man you are going to be is a Man standing on top of a mountain
made of the dead versions of yourself.






Edited by Neander on 11-13-19 06:14 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
paulrc
*
Total Posts: 134
11-14-19 01:04 AM - Post#890311    



Thank you everyone.

I know that seniors falling down and being unable to get up is unfortunately a common situation throughout the United States.

One of my biggest fears is that my Dad falls and he won't be able to get help. I am only able to visit him once a week or every other week and I always worry that something like this is going to happen to him. Hopefully by helping him learn how to get up and how to avoid falling will be beneficial for him.

 
Kyle Aaron
*
Total Posts: 1674
Is there a program that teaches you how to get off the floor?
11-14-19 07:10 AM - Post#890318    



Ordinary strength training will be powerful.

I have got women off walking frames with the below approach. It requires patience. It took them half a century to become weak, it will take a little while for them to become strong.

Obviously, the below assumes no contraindications. Run the movements by their doctor, emphasising how they are simply formalised versions of movements in everyday life, "a squat is sitting down and standing up, a press putting something overhead", etc.

It's ordinary strength training, but you will find you have to reduce their range of motion, and progress that along with the load. As with anyone, they need some sort of squat, push, pull, hip hinge and loaded carry. Modified.

A person who needs help getting up off the floor WILL NOT be able to do a below-parallel squat on day one, or similar exercises.

ALPS - THE ABLE variation of the LINEAR PROGRESSION TO SWOLE
Two sessions a week, preferably separated by 2 days, as recovery is poor in older deconditioned people.

Day A: squat, press, rack pull
Day B: squat, row/pulldown, rack pull

SQUAT: Goblet squats to a high box; the person will be unable to squat below parallel or hold a bar on their back initially. But a weight held at the front, and a height equivalent to a highish chair (like those found on some walking frames) will be doable.

For example, a gym squat box with a bunch of gym mats stacked up on it. You give them an 8kg KB, have them do 3 sets of 5. Add a rep each time, after 6 sessions they're doing 3 sets of 10. Now drop one of the mats so they'll be squatting an inch lower, and go back to 3 sets of 5. And so on, until they are doing 3 sets of 10 below parallel.

They may need to keep the box indefinitely; deconditioned people who have not been physically active for half a century lack the proprioreception skills and confidence to simply feel when they're below parallel. That's fine, doesn't matter, keep using the box.

PUSH: Presses you will want an 8kg barbell, the "children's" WL bar. Again, 3 sets of 5, with men you can add 0.5kg a session, most women you'll want to work from 5 to 10 reps, add 0.5kg and back to 5, as with the squats.

In deconditioned males over 50, or women over 60, or younger if they're overweight, you will see shoulders rounded forward. In this case, they'll be unable to get the bar directly overhead, and no amount of mobility work will fix this as their joints have calcified; if they put the bar directly overhead, to make up for lack of shoulder mobility they'll hyperextend their lower back, which you do NOT want to see.

In this case, you could have them use a dumbbell, which since they come in big jumps you'll have to progress by finding a weight they can do for 15 easy reps (usually 7.5-10kg for men, 5kg for women), and progress it from 3 sets of 5 to 3x15 as above, then onto the next DB but for 5s.

Alternately you could have them do flat bench, but many will require help getting up and down, and the more hunched-over ones will need a pillow under their head (with upper back rounded forward, when they lie down, to make their head touch the bench would require hyperextending their neck).

PULL: Older deconditioned people will never do a chinup, and the setup for rows will typically be problematic due to lower back strength. You want a lat pulldown or seated horizontal row machine. Find a weight they can do for a comfortable 15 reps, have them start with 3 sets of 8, adding a rep a session until 15, then tick up the weight by the smallest increment and back to 8s. If you have both lat pulldowns and horizontal rows, alternate the two; if you have to do one, do the rows with a long pause at the top of the movement.

HINGE: Use rack pulls. Someone who can't squat below parallel on day one won't be able to pull from the floor without drama, so set up a power rack or blocks so they'll be pulling from just below their knees. Men and women both will be able to start with the 20kg bar for work sets, though the women typically need warmups from an 8kg bar onwards (8, 10, 12.5, 15, 17.5, then 20) to feel confident enough - you'll see them grasp the bar, pull slightly, then say "no, I can't do this" - but after the warmups they're fine. Larger men can add 2.5kg a time, smaller men and most women 1kg. 3 sets of 5 will be sufficient.

If they can pull 60kg from the rack they'll be able to pull 40kg from the floor. But be cautious here: the heart/lung problems that go with age, plus their lack of muscle mass, may mean they get very light-headed pulling from the floor, their system just isn't strong enough to get the blood back to their heads quickly. When in doubt, keep them doing rack pulls.

CARRIES: these are tricky since the person will find it difficult to pick them up from the floor. So you could put some DB on a bench for them, but then the distance must be short since if they put them down on the floor to rest, they mightn't be able to get them back up. Typically a total weight 1/2 that of their rack pulls will be fine for them.

OTHER STUFF
MINDSET is key with older deconditioned people, even more so than younger people. They will be convinced they can't do things they are actually physically capable of doing, and terrified of injuring themselves and losing further capability. This is one reason we start them stupidly easy, to build confidence.

After the first few weeks, two things help develop their confidence. Firstly, keeping their own training journal - giving them a sense of ownership over the process. Secondly, changing their own weight plates etc; if you do it all for them, that encourages a passive mindset, if they do it themselves, it's an active mindset, "I'm in charge of this." Plus, moving plates around is a bunch of small loaded carries, and so a bit of extra work for them.

PROTEIN will be lacking in most older deconditioned people. Common health problems of old age like high blood pressure, arthritis and diabetes, plus slowing digestive systems, tend to push people away from red meat, dairy and so on. As well, as we age we become less good at turning protein into lean mass, we need more for the same effect.

This is where you will need them to consult with their doctor on good ways to increase it. Typically adding a small amount of meat, fish or beans to their normal meals will help - they don't need 200g protein a day, it's not like they're going to be squatting 140kg after all - but they do need a bit more than they're getting. And because of health considerations, this can be a time where protein powder is actually useful. But again this is really something they'll need their doctor's advice for, and it's not a big consideration when they're doing 20kg rack pulls. Let their nutrition progress over time like the weight on the bar.

ENDURANCE
work necessarily needs to consider their various injuries and health conditions. Typically they'll be doing 2-3,000 steps a day at most. Call it 14,000 steps a week and have them add 1,000 steps a week, so that in 12 months they're doing 70,000 steps a week.

Failing that, or if you find they simply don't do it on their own, stationary bikes are usually well-tolerated. Have them go at an easy pace for 5 minutes, add 1 minute a time until they hit 30 minutes, and from there progress the speed or resistance by the smallest increment every two weeks.

CONCLUSION

The person training an older deconditioned person has a profound responsibility. You are helping determine not only how many more years they have, but how many quality years. Being able to sit down and stand up unaided means means their dignity - can they go to the toilet unaided? - and the difference between living their daily life without help, and needing a caregiver. And two-thirds of those admitted to nursing homes are dead within 12 months.

As well, you may be the last trainer and the last chance they ever have. If you train a 20 or even 40 year old and injure or discourage them, they'll go to another gym - eventually. But if you injure or discourage a 70 year old, they'll never go to the gym again, and that's it for them.

Done properly, with weights you can change lives. And for deconditioned older people, you are not only changing their life, you are giving them their life back.

But this takes patience and care.

Athletic Club East
Strength in numbers




Edited by Kyle Aaron on 11-14-19 07:12 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
Dan John
*
Total Posts: 11322
11-14-19 08:31 AM - Post#890324    



Fantastic post, thank you.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
Chris Rice
*
Total Posts: 451
11-14-19 08:41 AM - Post#890325    



I have nothing new to offer except to say that in my 32 years of walking a mail route I found two elderly ladies next to their front door who had fallen and managed to crawl to the door - where they waited on someone to come find them. One had a broken hip - the other just was unable to regain her feet due to weakness. This is a very valuable thread.
 
Dan John
*
Total Posts: 11322
11-14-19 09:05 AM - Post#890326    



I would like to see this Stickied...I agree, good stuff here.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
Jordan D
*
Total Posts: 175
11-17-19 05:14 AM - Post#890439    



I wish I could send my parents to you, Kyle.
 
Henry
*
Total Posts: 1039
Is there a program that teaches you how to get off the floor?
01-15-20 04:12 PM - Post#892717    



Our next door neighbour who is in her 80's has our phone number to and one day called to say she fell and couldn't get up, I came over and lifted her till she could get her feet ground.

Last Friday at my wife's mum and sister, they was talking about sleep positions, then went on to ask about mine, so got down on the carpet to demonstrate mine, I have 2 main position then got up. My wife's sister (70) and mum both sez "how did you get up?" that they could get up of the floor.

My sister in-law went on to say she went down on her knees for some reason then couldn't get up and had to pull all the blankets off her bed to make a little hill to crawl up then use the bed for assist. Both barely even walk and only in the house or out of a car a short distance.

I don't think there's a solution for them, I don't think they would follow any exercise methods. They live in a small farm area town and make no effort to even walk a block.


 
Kyle Aaron
*
Total Posts: 1674
01-16-20 04:55 PM - Post#892778    



Well, Henry, there are none so blind as those who would not see, and there are none so weak as those who would not walk.

Some people choose to live, some don't.
Athletic Club East
Strength in numbers


 
Henry
*
Total Posts: 1039
01-18-20 01:10 PM - Post#892837    



  • Kyle Aaron Said:
Well, Henry, there are none so blind as those who would not see, and there are none so weak as those who would not walk.

Some people choose to live, some don't.



It's their own fault, never doing much just sitting around reading and TV, not going outside for walks.

My wife and I walk everyday, yesterday walked for 2 hours, about 11km/7 miles. Workout in the Fitness room 4 times a week (DB's & V1-Select), indoor pool, Hot Power Yoga 3 times a week, Tai Chi plus weapons in my apartment. Use the stairs, 2 at a time to the 15th floor after workouts. I'm 67 and fit as a fiddle.


 
pink.pixie
*
Total Posts: 3920
01-18-20 06:58 PM - Post#892855    



Thanks for this thread....more than a serendipity that this thread jumped up at me today.

My neighbor (77) who got down on the bathroom floor to check his leaking toilet couldn't get up and called for help. He said "I can't get up".

To my own surprise I turned into a drill sergeant and said 'yes you can!' He again, no I can't, I again, yes you can, put your hand by your knee, other hand by the other knee.... push , butt up, head down, push....somehow he got up.

I was totally startled and shocked..... both by his circumstance and also by my approach.

He goes to the gym sometimes (machines only, same prgm for years-I suggested he modifies it, but no) and he walks sometimes (not every day) so I never imagined it was so bad.

But as Kyle said, if the person doesn't want to change and is not willing to listen, you just need to be prepared to watch the slow suicide in progress which is terribly sad, methinks.
Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.


 
pink.pixie
*
Total Posts: 3920
Re: Is there a program that teaches you how to get off the floor?
01-18-20 07:29 PM - Post#892857    



  • Kyle Aaron Said:


The person training an older deconditioned person has a profound responsibility. You are helping determine not only how many more years they have, but how many quality years.
...

Done properly, with weights you can change lives. And for deconditioned older people, you are not only changing their life, you are giving them their life back.

But this takes patience and care.




Well said, Kyle.

Q: What does this mean?
ALPS - THE ABLE variation of the LINEAR PROGRESSION TO SWOLE
Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.


 
pink.pixie
*
Total Posts: 3920
Quick Links: Main Index | Flight Deck | Training Logs | Dan John Deck | Must Reads | Archive | Private Topics
Icon Legend Permissions & Sharing Options Topic options

FACEBOOKFACEBOOK
TWITTERTWITTER
GOOGLEGOOGLE
DIGGDIGG
DELICIOUSDELICIOUS
STUMBLEUPONSTUMBLEUPON
Print topic


1081 Views

Home | Dave's Q&A | IOL Blog | DanJohn.net

What's New | Weekly Columns | Weight Training Tips
General Nutrition | Draper History | IronOnline Forum | IOL Blog | Mag Cover Shots | Magazine Articles | Bodybuilding Q&A | Bomber Talk | Workout FAQs
Site Map | Contact IronOnline | Privacy Policy


Top