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Display Name Post: Westside vs The World?        (Topic#36976)
vegpedlr
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Total Posts: 864
11-12-19 11:43 AM - Post#890216    



Anyone check this out on Netflix? I watched it and thought it was OK. The first half was interesting, about Louie Simmons and how it all got started. But I would have liked to see more about the Soviet methods he adapted. I’m not familiar with their system, would have liked to see more, but get that they don’t want too much detail confusing the audience. Likewise, I would have liked to see more about the legacy as applied to other sports.

Unfortunately, the second half dragged as it got into soap operatic stories of personalities I couldn’t really identify with.

Now The Game Changers, that’s more my style.
 
Boogieman
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Total Posts: 49
11-12-19 11:58 AM - Post#890218    



How was the Game Changers?

I heard they kind of manipulate the content to suit there argument, and act a bit dogmatic... as is often the case with these kinds of things.
 
SinisterAlex
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Total Posts: 268
11-12-19 12:54 PM - Post#890220    



  • Boogieman Said:
How was the Game Changers?

I heard they kind of manipulate the content to suit there argument, and act a bit dogmatic... as is often the case with these kinds of things.



Yes, they did.

Corporate interests twisting reality to fit their narratives...
 
Browser
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Total Posts: 325
11-12-19 12:57 PM - Post#890221    



Game changers is a propaganda flick with cherry picked (and often mis-represented) science. They act as if there is a scientific consensus that consuming animal products is unhealthy.

"The trouble about always trying to preserve the health of the body is that it is so difficult to do without destroying the health of the mind."~GK Chesterton


 
Silverback61
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Total Posts: 1155
11-12-19 02:19 PM - Post#890226    



Watching Westside vs The World made me feel very sad for Louie. He has no life other than the gym.
He also used and discarded people when they could no longer make him look good.
Sad...
It Is Better To Be Stronger Than You Look, Than Look Stronger Than You Are

My Weights Are In Freedom Units

=[[[[[[--------]]]]]]=


 
vegpedlr
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Total Posts: 864
11-12-19 03:20 PM - Post#890227    




  • Boogieman Said:
How was the Game Changers?

I heard they kind of manipulate the content to suit there argument, and act a bit dogmatic... as is often the case with these kinds of things.


Well, I’ve been living the lifestyle for years, so I loved it. Inspirational and motivating. When your passion is shared by less than 5% of the population, anything like this is cause for celebration.

I’m very familiar with the criticism, it’s never been convincing to me. I’ve been listening to the haters for so long, I could probably write their response for them.

There”s a thread on this on the other forum.

I started this thread to see what people thought about the Westside doc. I don’t know much about it, seemed to me that the elitist attitude it them back. I was also disappointed at the short shrift the women got, if in fact they were more successful competitively.
 
Browser
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Total Posts: 325
11-12-19 03:43 PM - Post#890228    



I also came way feeling very sorry for Louie and wondering how everyone got so caught up in the Westside mystique. My (worthless and unsolicited opinion) is that their success was much more due to getting a bunch of strong and motivated (and crazy) guys together to push each other than to any special training program.
"The trouble about always trying to preserve the health of the body is that it is so difficult to do without destroying the health of the mind."~GK Chesterton


 
Kyle Aaron
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Total Posts: 1674
Westside vs The World?
11-12-19 04:30 PM - Post#890229    



  • Browser Said:
My (worthless and unsolicited opinion) is that their success was much more due to getting a bunch of strong and motivated (and crazy) guys together to push each other than to any special training program.


Honestly, I believe this is true of almost every gym or sports club that's known for producing champions.

Sometimes a world-class coach is just an ordinary coach who had a world-class athlete walk in their door one day. And once one walks in and people hear about it, maybe a second one decides to walk in. And then a third. And suddenly everyone thinks you're brilliant - especially if you're good friends with a pharmacist.

I honestly believe that most strength and conditioning coaches at the top level have as much to do with the strength and conditioning of their athletes as a basketball coach has to do with the height of their players.

It's not coaching, it's recruitment.

How do you get a guy to bench 210kg? Well, first get a guy who already benches 200kg, then...
Athletic Club East
Strength in numbers




Edited by Kyle Aaron on 11-12-19 04:30 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
Andy Mitchell
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Total Posts: 5086
Re: Westside vs The World?
11-12-19 05:47 PM - Post#890235    



  • Kyle Aaron Said:
  • Browser Said:
My (worthless and unsolicited opinion) is that their success was much more due to getting a bunch of strong and motivated (and crazy) guys together to push each other than to any special training program.


Honestly, I believe this is true of almost every gym or sports club that's known for producing champions.

Sometimes a world-class coach is just an ordinary coach who had a world-class athlete walk in their door one day. And once one walks in and people hear about it, maybe a second one decides to walk in. And then a third. And suddenly everyone thinks you're brilliant - especially if you're good friends with a pharmacist.

I honestly believe that most strength and conditioning coaches at the top level have as much to do with the strength and conditioning of their athletes as a basketball coach has to do with the height of their players.

It's not coaching, it's recruitment.

How do you get a guy to bench 210kg? Well, first get a guy who already benches 200kg, then...




The last point is realistic

You can never be too thin, too tan or too rich..
D-mart


 
Dan John
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Total Posts: 11322
11-12-19 09:24 PM - Post#890243    



There are a few two minute sections that would be worth copying and keeping, I think. Obviously, Louie dumbed down "Western" stuff; I think the traditional template (see Cerutty or JK Doherty's Omnibook) is still brilliant.

And...drugs. You gotta talk about drugs if you are being candid about Westside. My buddies who are in the video are more than honest.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
Neander
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Total Posts: 7314
11-12-19 10:29 PM - Post#890244    



I really liked the first section of that Westside doc. The historical parts were fun for me! And throughout there was candor when showing the drug deal. Not to the point of actually showing people sticking it in, but hey, that's something you don't see on too many strength and bodybuilding docs.

The part after that, the part the went into the various feuds and fallings out, I coulda done without.

One thing you can say for Louie Simmons. He tells it straight. And he's a storehouse of training info.
The man you are going to be is a Man standing on top of a mountain
made of the dead versions of yourself.




 
Chris Rice
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Total Posts: 451
11-12-19 10:37 PM - Post#890245    



I've visited Westside several times now - Louie is very interesting to talk to. He took me in tow as he coached everyone. Little tweaks and cues here and there. Louie talks non stop - wish I had taken a tape recorder with me. While I didn't agree with everything - he knows a ton about getting strong. We forget today that when Westside started what he was doing was fairly far ahead of the general knowledge available to many of us.
 
Taranenko74
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Total Posts: 47
11-13-19 05:46 AM - Post#890252    



@Vegpe, in case you want to study Russian methods, check Sportivny Press -booklets:

Main Site: http://www.sportivnypress.com/

Webshop: https://www.dynamicfitnessequipment.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=SP113

it's a russian guy living in US who keeps on publishing historic material I think.

There's lot of different material available. Interesting to read, but I'd be very careful to use those methods with standard normal working guy. On that time, they were 100 % professional athletes and using PEDs. Programming however is well planned and they certainly get results but at what cost?

As said, interesting to read and learn the history but can't recommend that training today. You'll get mentally bored and physically beaten.
 
Boogieman
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Total Posts: 49
11-13-19 07:02 AM - Post#890256    



I understand how you feel about being in a niche interest like that, so I can see how you would enjoy it.

With that said, as an outsider, I don’t have much interest in stuff in it after hearing the criticisms. (Again, criticisms that are shared by most documentaries it seems, especially ones related to health and fitness...whatever that is!)

The Westside flick sounds like its worth watching at least til the soap opera stuff starts. I may check it out. I actually know nothing about it, other than that I see the name appear often online, and have seen it in some programs.
 
Dan John
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Total Posts: 11322
11-13-19 07:46 AM - Post#890259    



You could certainly do that. I think the overview of programming and then the BRIEF mention of chains and bands (and the rest) make "must see" TV . It does devolve a bit into an episode of Friends. (Maybe overstating it.)
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
vegpedlr
*
Total Posts: 864
11-13-19 10:38 AM - Post#890267    



I love stories of little subcultures, particularly athletic, that can have the suffix “-bum” like surf, ski, climbing, etc. Stories of guys living out of their cars just so they could train there are cool.

It makes for a better story if it ends with legacy, how all that dedication and passion changed others not immediately connected. So ending with more on how their methods changed sports S&C and less personal drama.
 
Neander
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Total Posts: 7314
11-13-19 06:20 PM - Post#890292    



Wouldn't it have been so cool if filming was as easy way back when, as easy as it is now, "cause a doc on the original Westside would be beautiful to view.
The man you are going to be is a Man standing on top of a mountain
made of the dead versions of yourself.




 
IB138
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Total Posts: 9274
11-14-19 05:40 PM - Post#890357    



  • Silverback61 Said:
Watching Westside vs The World made me feel very sad for Louie. He has no life other than the gym.
He also used and discarded people when they could no longer make him look good.
Sad...



Agreed
Peace ~ Bear



 
IB138
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Total Posts: 9274
11-14-19 05:42 PM - Post#890358    



  • Browser Said:
I also came way feeling very sorry for Louie and wondering how everyone got so caught up in the Westside mystique. My (worthless and unsolicited opinion) is that their success was much more due to getting a bunch of strong and motivated (and crazy) guys together to push each other than to any special training program.



Exactly!
Peace ~ Bear



 
IB138
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Total Posts: 9274
11-14-19 05:49 PM - Post#890361    



The strongest guys I've known were crazy f*cks who would do and take anything to get stronger, even if it shortened their lives by 20 years.
Peace ~ Bear



 
Neander
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Total Posts: 7314
Westside vs The World?
11-17-19 02:05 AM - Post#890437    



Well yeah, same in pretty much any field we pursue.
And call me old fashioned, but I still can respect that choice
no matter how insane it may seem later.

The hope is that the unsafe extremes will drag the safe ways up to a higher level in some ways, eh.

We can learn a lot from the extreme people, scale it back a notch or two, and gain more significantly.

I mean, if you're willing to look hard enough you can learn something usable from
every person's successes and failures all the way back through time.

And not just the elite, the "stars" and the celebrities.
Every man has something in his life you can learn from.
Pretty cool setup, this connectivity!
The man you are going to be is a Man standing on top of a mountain
made of the dead versions of yourself.






Edited by Neander on 11-17-19 02:17 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
IB138
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Total Posts: 9274
Re: Westside vs The World?
11-19-19 12:48 PM - Post#890527    



  • Neander Said:
Well yeah, same in pretty much any field we pursue.
And call me old fashioned, but I still can respect that choice
no matter how insane it may seem later.




Same!

Bear likes choice.
Peace ~ Bear



 
DanMartin
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Total Posts: 20113
Westside vs The World?
11-19-19 03:01 PM - Post#890533    



Me, well I was a devotee of the original Culver City Westside with Peanuts West, but I digress.
Practice what you suck at.


 
jamej
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Total Posts: 465
11-19-19 07:32 PM - Post#890538    



I've tried not to comment but here it is: I worked out with Louie twice he was both generous and the consummate gentlemen. After having met him and worked out with him he is a truly special human being. If you doubt him and / or his system please put your doubts aside and go see him. You will be amazed and your life will be be changed.
Sincerely,
James
 
SB
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Total Posts: 870
Westside vs The World?
11-25-19 08:53 AM - Post#890759    



I enjoyed the documentary for what it was, a look into a subculture and some of the key personalities.

If you are interested in drug use by strength athletes, including at WestSide, I recommend Mark and Chris Bell's Bigger Stronger Faster documentary.
Scott




Edited by SB on 11-25-19 08:55 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
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