01-04-21 06:04 PM - Post#906326    

Hi all,

I long fancied learning the Olympic lifts and getting my bodyweight overhead. I would like opinions on whether it's (a) a sensible goal, (b) feasible for my body, and (c) the right time now.

I need to pick a program for the next couple of months. It needs to be easy-strength style, something I can do in 20min before dinner or in the evening after. My running injuries seem fixed so it will hopefully be a 'second session', sometimes on tired legs.

I did a lot of deadlift/pullup/press workouts last year and have got back close to a double-bodyweight deadlift - 151kg. Currently pressing 29/30kg with each arm with BW of 77 (which should hopefully come down to 72 when I lose the obvious beer belly/love handles). I fancy a change and want to get a bit more explosive/snappy, after years of doing things slowly. I thought it was too late until I heard Dan encouraging a 60 year old lady on his podcast last summer. I'm 54 so if going to do it, it's best soon!

All lifting will be done in a cold shed, as the UK just locked down hard and gyms are closed for the foreseeable future. I warm up indoors on the floor, then head out in fleece, gloves and hat. I have a 1-inch barbell where the hands are maybe 2" closer than on an Olympic bar, and a snatch grip which puts the bar 2-3" lower (mid zip). It served me fine for the last 30 years and will last the next 30, apart from not being "Olympic". No rack.

The killer is probably my mobility. The first exercise I saw in one of Dan's Olympic programs was a set of snatches followed by deep overhead squats. Now I can just about do an OHS all the way down with a PVC pipe, arms out wide, but with heels coming off the floor; but the moment I use a bar, say 10kg at home, or a bare Oly bar in the gym, I seem to be unable to get past a quarter squat.

When I try Dan's drill, and goblet squat and curl the bell, I have both feet flat on the floor until I release the KB. Then, there are two choices: come up on the toes, or fall over backwards. So I come up on the toes, stick the broom handle above me, but it's nowhere near vertical - it's more in line with my torso. Javelin/pipe dislocates are however pretty easy.

Is there a way to tell if I specifically need more mobility in ankles, hips, thoracic spine, or shoulders? Are there 'standards' for each? Could it just be 'fear of being in a weird position with a weight overhead'?

Most of all, is there any point starting to work on snatch and C&J now? Or would it make sense to spend weeks getting mobile enough to a proper OHS first? I could always do an Easy Strength cycle with power clean, front squat and push press while I work on it.

Thanks in advance for all opinions...

01-04-21 06:44 PM - Post#906329    

I learned the Olympic lifts at age 54. I did have the obvious advantage of good coaching (Columbus Weightlifting Club). The first and hardest thing for me to learn was to even achieve the full squat positions. A good rack position for Clean (wrists) and front squat and the ability to do a "rock bottom" over head squat. It's possible of course to do "power" versions while developing the flexibility to do the lifts correctly. I did a ton of PVC pipe work and empty bar work working towards the full lifts - I was able to learn the lifts to an "acceptable" point and did C&J over my bodyweight before too long. Good Luck!

01-05-21 08:51 AM - Post#906344    

How do Olympic lifting coaches help people with incredibly stiff ankles? I’d really love to know this. Do they just shake their heads and kick them out the gym?

01-05-21 09:19 AM - Post#906346    

Weightlifting shoes might be helpful here?

They won’t help with any missing mobility but might allow you to train the lifts?

If you don’t have any, some workboots with a bit of heel height and a solid base would be a reasonable substitute

Log

01-05-21 10:29 AM - Post#906357    

I had great difficulty w/ front rack position early on. Not ankles (DUH) but may be similar in what helped me tremendously. Use light weight, like just the bar, held OH and get as low as possible w/ heels still on floor. Then holding that, relax what you can and feel your way a bit lower. When fatigue sets in, lower the bar, stand up, shake it out and rest. Then repeat. I was pretty far from front rack let alone a comfortable one. Doing that simple "weighted stretch", really more of an awareness and CNS adaptation I think, got me there in just a couple weeks.

Learning Olympic Lifts and Overhead Squat
01-05-21 11:31 AM - Post#906361    

Can you hold an empty bar overhead comfortably? If so, how far down can you squat before you have to dump the bar?

Just my 2 cents, but when I learned to snatch I just started out with a power snatch + overhead squat and kept squatting lower and lower until I was eventually getting all the way down. It took a few weeks. I practiced the bottom position with a 100 pound dumbbell and would just sit at the bottom for like 30 seconds 'prying' and trying to get deeper.

"The trouble about always trying to preserve the health of the body is that it is so difficult to do without destroying the health of the mind."~GK Chesterton

Edited by Browser on 01-05-21 11:37 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

01-05-21 01:41 PM - Post#906377    

Heels can be normal work boots...my first O lifting shoes. Jim Shmitz gave me my first pair of actual lifting shoes.

I have a video where I use plates...right?

Daniel John Just handing down what I was handed down... Make a Difference. Live. Love. Laugh. Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude) Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk. Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth. Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights. Reread great books. Say thank you

Learning Olympic Lifts and Overhead Squat
01-05-21 02:14 PM - Post#906381    

I've worn lifting shoes for years. It's the only way I can squat to (just) below parallel. My mobility everywhere else is great, but I've got this surgically rebuilt ankle that may or may not even be capable of achieving that full ass-to-grass front squat depth that Olympic lifters execute so wondrously. Regular old mobility techniques have been all but useless across the decades.

Thus, I'd REALLY like to find an Olympic lifting coach who can say, "Yes, I've seen ankles like this before, and this is how we solved it."

To date, I've never found this. (Though the ATG program I mentioned last month has helped to some degree.)

Apologies for hijacking the thread!

Edited by Jordan D on 01-05-21 02:15 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

Re: Learning Olympic Lifts and Overhead Squat
01-05-21 03:09 PM - Post#906384    

• Jordan D Said:

I know Dan Bell (an old Columbus Weight Lifting coach) talked about building up the heels on Olympic Lifting shoes even higher (there's a limit of course) for those that need it due to ankle, knees, or hips issues. I have a slight heel wedge in mine that really helps. This is an easy thing to try to see if it helps or not - and is of course non permanent.


https://coachdanbell.wordpress.com/2014/01/17/heel-heigh t-and-position/

Edited by Chris Rice on 01-05-21 03:11 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

Learning Olympic Lifts and Overhead Squat
01-05-21 04:32 PM - Post#906394    

I've used Adidas and Puma lifting boots. Wore them all out. Went to a Red Wing work boot. The Blacksmith model to be specific. (And boy oh boy have they gone up in price. Must be all the hipster dofus pukes.) Since I just do KB's now, I find Adidas Samba's to be enough.

Mark it Zero.

Re: Learning Olympic Lifts and Overhead Squat
01-05-21 04:33 PM - Post#906395    

Thanks, everyone. That blog above resonated - when I squat with a PVC pipe, my arms look weird exactly like the girl in the picture.

Tonight I practiced for ages indoors with the PVC pipe, and managed a few with my 10kg bar with about an inch under the heel. Then with a 2 inch support (heels on a 4x2), I was able to do 20kg a few times; that's the point for me where the weight really needs to be 100% vertical. Upper back working like mad to keep in position.

I moved up to 30kg and managed a few controlled 'negatives', at least getting all the way down slowly and learning to put the bar down in front.

So hopefully I'm "on the way" now and that's my "lockdown project"!

Re: Learning Olympic Lifts and Overhead Squat
01-05-21 06:10 PM - Post#906399    

• Old Miler Said:

A 2' x 4" board is actually 1 1/2" x 3 1/2" in case you try to duplicate it with your boots.

Re: Learning Olympic Lifts and Overhead Squat
01-05-21 08:43 PM - Post#906405    

• Quoting:

Hopefully no one misinterpreted the progressive aspect of lifting and in six months was standing on many many bigger plates.

• Quoting:

I say yes to the first choice. It'll increase your interest and each lift and/or accessory in some ways improves all the others.

Life's too short to worry about longevity.

Edited by Neander on 01-05-21 08:48 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

Re: Learning Olympic Lifts and Overhead Squat
01-09-21 05:10 PM - Post#906532    

• Old Miler Said:

Have you considered learning the split snatch?

Re: Learning Olympic Lifts and Overhead Squat
01-09-21 06:03 PM - Post#906536    

• Joe Fogler Said:

Thanks! I have to admit, I never knew it existed until now! I'll play with that tomorrow!

I guess it really doesn't matter if I ever manage a deep squat snatch, because if I ever managed a bodyweight clean and jerk I'd "declare victory" happily, and there doesn't seem to be any mobility obstacle to that (just lack of speed).

BTW I spent the last few days playing around and I reckon it's chest/shoulder mobility stopping me, not ankles. My arms just never needed to go behind the plane of my torso before. I can do it with a light enough weight that I can bend my arms a bit and hold them super-wide, but if I have to hold something up, arms just don't go back. I guess the Stoney Stretch is the one to work on?

Re: Learning Olympic Lifts and Overhead Squat
01-09-21 06:23 PM - Post#906538    

-> Stoney Stretch

I can't say, but that's a time saver and a keeper for sure.

Life's too short to worry about longevity.

Edited by Neander on 01-09-21 06:25 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

Re: Learning Olympic Lifts and Overhead Squat
01-10-21 06:18 AM - Post#906548    

Have you tried shoulder dislocations with a broomstick?

2 minute shoulder mobility drill

This, too, shall pass