09-13-16 09:05 PM - Post#841221    

I was looking for the initial book discussion on this but it seems to be lost in time. So the suggestion was made to start a new one.

Neander had a great idea to go through each chapter and understand the strengths layouts and possible problems with it.

Since McCallum was such a great storyteller I think we should add a bit about the story and favorite quotes.

So..here we go...

Time Factor
09-13-16 09:09 PM - Post#841223    

Time Factor (the Beginner/Intermediate routine)

The routine, if that is not a foundational routine I don't know what is. Basic message, don't fool around in the gym till your are advanced or suffer the consequences of being a social outcast while remaining as skinny as a lamp post.

3x a week

BTNP 2x12
BFR 3x15
Bench 3x12
Curls 1x10
Squats 2x15 3 breaths between each rep
Pullovers 2x20
SLDL 1x15
Leg Raises 1x25

I can see how the BTNP might bother some shoulders but many of these lifts can be substituted for lifts that are more appropriate for the lifter and the basic routine would still be intact

ex.

Press
DB Row
Bench
Curl
Leg Press
Pullover
Hyperextensions
Leg raises

Reps can be changed, etc. 3x5, 5x5 as time goes on.Personally I'd miss the Deadlift but it can be substituted for the squat on the middle day.

Strapped for time? Do it 2x. Like deads? Do deads one day, squats the next.

Little name drops in the article; Reg, Maurice you get some education here. Basic article with a basic routine that could be used for years.


The kid in the article is so skinny:
"You could open tin cans on his kneecaps."
-John McCallum

The teasing of his victims...I mean apprentices begins.

Re: Time Factor
09-13-16 09:32 PM - Post#841226    

I figure if we re: to the article we can keep it semi organized as to which article we are on.

09-13-16 10:18 PM - Post#841229    

Now where's that book....

09-13-16 10:42 PM - Post#841233    

You might not have to for the first article...

09-13-16 11:08 PM - Post#841234    

Here's a link to "The Time Factor" with some cool pics added:

http://ditillo2.blogspot.ca/2008/04/time-factor-jo hn-mccallum.html

Re: the Re idea - Absolutely. Great idea to help us stop from going all lost-and-wandering on this. Right. 40 days and nights wandering the KTP desert in a haze. Not! That idea'll work finest kind.

Life's too short to worry about longevity.

Re: Time Factor
09-13-16 11:19 PM - Post#841236    

Man that looks great! Check out those lifting icons! Thanks for posting that. No excuse not to read it now.

Keys To Progress 2.0
09-13-16 11:26 PM - Post#841237    

Okay, I'll put my toe in here, but I'm not going into the deep end alone!

Right off the bat McCallum establishes that he's entertaining his readership while he's muscle-mentoring them monthly, and it would often turn out to be more than just the young readers' muscles he was developing --

"There’s a young man down the street from me who trains with weights. He’s been at it for about three years but you’d never know it to look at him. He’s got no build at all. My grandmother’s been dead for twelve years and she probably still looks better than him.

"He came over to my house to talk one night. He brought an arm-load of magazines with him. I told him to sit down. He dumped the magazines on the coffee table. He’s a thin jittery type. He sits on a sofa like his back pockets were full of broken glass."

Wonderful stuff, right out of the gate. At this rate I'm surprised Bob Hoffman didn't hire on a drummer strictly for McCallum rimshots!

He goes into that flipping through the magazines bit. I can now understand that this was a definite jab at the Weider outfit, something that went on what seems endlessly between the two groups.

Of course it's not just that, he's trying to impress the importance of not overdoing it. But he also gets that jab in there.

And right around that section McCallum also establishes what I can see as his 'strength-based' inclination and preference, through his trivialization of bodypart descriptions. He mentions Yarick's Gym, known for the abundance of strong lifters that trained there. Hepburn went down there, I believe it was his first trip to the U.S. when Charles Smith got some money from Joe W. to finance Doug's travel and stay. The importance of building strength and not only pumping runs throughout the majority of the book. But there's also this in that section:

I closed it [the magazine] up at this point. I’ve seen lots of good looking legs but the only ones that thrilled me were on girls.

I handed the book back. “Not bad,” I said. “Slip it under your coat when you’re leaving, will you? The postal authorities may be casing the place.”

Call me crazy, but I can see another jab at the Weider publications here. The 'gay' implication aimed at some of the more risque mags that the Weiders put out.

Sheesh, this is crazy. It's what they call in college a 'close reading' of a book or film. Who woulda thunk it!

I really want to come back later and check out the actual workout, the reasons behind it, the idea of being wary of overwork, the order of the exercises, and the set/rep schemes. Yippee!

Life's too short to worry about longevity.

Edited by Neander on 09-13-16 11:34 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

09-13-16 11:34 PM - Post#841238    

Oh yeah, it might also be nice, since this is the 50th Anniversary of the Keys' original publication, to note that this was 1965. We could dig back a little on some of McCallum's ideas in each article and find out where they came from in their rawer, earlier forms. And also relate the changes present today in those same ideas that keep being reborn with different names.

Life's too short to worry about longevity.

Keys To Progress 2.0
09-13-16 11:56 PM - Post#841241    

Exercise 1, Standing Press Behind Neck:

"The best single exercise for the shoulder girdle. Take a wider than shoulder width grip and drive the bar up hard. Don’t pause at the bottom when you lower it. Get a rebound and drive it back up hard and fast. Don’t handle it like a crate of eggs. Be rough."

I've gone back to this routine lots of times in the last couple of decades. It can bring you back to sanity from some of the crazier layouts we lifters with ambition are all too prone to. It can also serve to condition you for what's to come, to 'set up' the system for gains that can only happen maximally if you're in the right shape and at the right fresh head space.

That's an idea that J.C. Hise was very centered on throughout his life. Roger Eells used a somewhat similar approach but tended to specialize more on the infirm and weaker beginners with his ideas.

The first layout brings its own gains, but it also sets you up for the gains the second one can make available. You can't win maximally without the appropriate order of training routines. You don't build the roof first!

I can see the Standing Press Behind Neck here as almost a Push Press from behind the neck once you get rolling on the first program and the poundages become big enough to be beneficial.

". . . drive the bar up hard. Don’t pause at the bottom when you lower it. Get a rebound and drive it back up hard and fast. Don’t handle it like a crate of eggs. Be rough."

It helps with some of the McCallum layouts to remember that Olympic-style weightlifting was a big part of weight training around '65 and before, especially in Mr. Hoffman's Strength & Health mag. The style of execution isn't, to my mind, necessarily that of a bodybuilding Press Behind Neck here. And the idea of 'cheating' exercises was really gaining traction and in vogue at that time. The rubber mats that bars and bells could be bounced off, the loosening of strict performance and use of more 'body language' to permit handling heavier weights, that whole thing.

So, with more of a fast moving, dynamic yet still controlled-both-direction s style on this exercise the lifter could certainly work up to a nice pile of plates on each end of the bar over the three months this routine was meant to be used. Or was it four months. I can't remember. There's The Time Factor article, then three months of articles on Concentration before the Squat article hit the newsstands. My math would be a lot better if I hadn't spent so much time on this stuff, then, wouldn't it

Life's too short to worry about longevity.

Edited by Neander on 09-14-16 01:50 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

09-14-16 10:08 AM - Post#841256    

Count me as another who makes McCallum's Time Factor (or a variant thereof--right now, I'm doing the same exercises on the same schedule, but for a Park-style 5x5) my "base" routine, which I tend to return to from other experiments, or which I make my default when life is too crazy for splits or planned overreaching and deloads. There are other basic templates that work well, too, but this one's been a favorite of mine for a decade.

The more I eat and the heavier I train, the better my genetics get. If you're not paraplegic and not squatting, please kick your own ass for me." "Do you really think that the reason most guys don't have big arms is purely because of a lack of doing curls?" --Alwyn Cosgrove "There is only one gram of carbs in STFD and no carbs at all in STFU." --Byron Chandler "Use meaningful loads to achieve results." --Big Vic http://www.stoneagefitnessconcepts.com

09-14-16 12:27 PM - Post#841265    

This is gonna be fun!

Keys To Progress 2.0
09-14-16 01:20 PM - Post#841270    

You bet!
But I'm sure glad it's not me in charge of editing all that's to come.

Life's too short to worry about longevity.

Edited by Neander on 09-14-16 01:21 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

Keys To Progress 2.0
09-14-16 01:39 PM - Post#841271    

For a lot of lifters, that four months of looser form, standing pressing and pushing behind the neck could lead to problems with the shoulder girdle. I'd really rather rather see a press that's in front and not in back of the head. If it's a new, or almost new lifter, he won't know if the behind the neck version will bring shoulder problems until he's already experiencing them. A lot of lifters don't have any problem with behind the neck pressing and pushing. And once the ouch arrives, if it does, well it's too late then and that would derail the progression of poundage for a while.

I'd say just drop the behind the neck press here, and alter it to a front press/push press.

It's 2 sets of 12 with the same weight. I think with all these articles it's important to stick with the original rep plan, we could get into more on that later, I sure do hope so. Of course not in a guy's own training when it would be advantageous to switch the rep plans. But for a 'keeper' version of an updated Keys to Progress thing I really think the set/rep schemes should remain intact. An alternate to the 'rough' standing press behind neck (for some lifters an improvement in the long run) might be a standing press that starts reasonably strict for the first reps, then gradually morphs into a push press near the end of each set.

Rather large amount of time to spend on this one exercise, isn't it. No worries, as far as I'm concerned I'm gonna live forever.

12 reps, for me anyhow, is a high rep number for pressing. To stay with that count and still keep adding weight over the four months . . . I don't know . . . you could get stale in that length of time very easily.

Four months? Okay, if a lifter started this layout at the beginning of September, he'd be finding out about and beginning the next layout (Squat!) at the start of January, 2017! That's a long haul on one routine.

There could be an addition to this article, and something of a reminder in the three following. Something about deloading might be in order. No one is going to be able to keep pushing (and McCallum emphasizes the goal of more weight on all these exercises but the pullover here), pushing for four solid months, without getting stale.

Maybe the last week of each month, or at least the last two workouts of each last week of each month, could be back-peddled by a certain percentage???

Life's too short to worry about longevity.

Edited by Neander on 09-14-16 01:48 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

09-14-16 02:20 PM - Post#841274    

Great insights, Dale.

I love the loose(ish) press behind the neck, but I'd agree that it doesn't love a lot of lifters--and that you can get ~95% of the same bang for the buck by doing loose(ish) presses to the front as long as you avoid layback.

On the rep ranges, I've got a few thoughts. First thought, of course, is that you and I aren't the true audience for this article. We both wore out our beginner gains before today's high school student who wants to gain some size was born. We've also both taken runs at this program starting with weights that true beginners hope to work up to by the end of their four months.

For the true beginner, four months of mostly linear progress in higher rep ranges isn't beyond the pale, especially if you set a rule like "increase by no more than five pounds, and increase only when you feel you could have done two more on your final set." The big thing I'd add in avoiding staleness is the standard advice from the courses of its time about not training on the nerve, never missing reps, and only increasing weight when you feel you can make all reps.

For someone coming to this routine with some progressive lifting under his belt, I'd agree that we'd want to talk through some options on periodization. For someone who either comes in with experience or hits a wall, my first recommendation, of course, would be heavy-light-medium, with a goal of increasing your weights on the heavy workout each week. The second recommendation would be to follow four straight ramping mesocycles, where you spend four weeks ramping up every workout (starting from well-submax weights and aiming for a new 5-pound rep PR on each exercise on workout 12 of the mesocycle), then resetting to a "base" five pounds heavier.

The more I eat and the heavier I train, the better my genetics get. If you're not paraplegic and not squatting, please kick your own ass for me." "Do you really think that the reason most guys don't have big arms is purely because of a lack of doing curls?" --Alwyn Cosgrove "There is only one gram of carbs in STFD and no carbs at all in STFU." --Byron Chandler "Use meaningful loads to achieve results." --Big Vic http://www.stoneagefitnessconcepts.com

09-14-16 03:39 PM - Post#841282    

Those last three paragraphs are golden. This is so cool, this being able to know other people's take and ideas on stuff I love.

Life's too short to worry about longevity.

09-14-16 06:59 PM - Post#841288    

This is gonna be great to follow!

09-14-16 07:27 PM - Post#841289    

Cajin on PBN.

• cajinjohn Said:

09-14-16 11:05 PM - Post#841296    

• Jack C Said:

Join in and make it greater, Jack!

Life's too short to worry about longevity.

Keys To Progress 2.0
09-14-16 11:25 PM - Post#841297    

Exercise 2:
Bentover Barbell Row - 3 set of 15 reps.

"The best all-round back exercise. Round your back when the bar is in the low position. Pull up to your abdomen and arch your back. Try to contract your spinal erectors."

What do you think of nixing this:

Round your back when the bar is in the low position.

This program, when I initially used it, marked the first time I did bent barbell rows for that many reps. The pump and flushing I got after three sets was great, and it sure cured any problems I had with getting the 'feel' in my rowing motions, or for that matter any other upper back exercises. Just a wonderful feeling and a physical realization, so I have to be grateful for being shown that.

But rounding the back with a barbell row weight you've built up for a couple of dozen workouts might not be such a great plan. I can definitely go with the conscious flexing of the erectors in the bar-at-contracted position, though. And even a slight pausing 'squeeze' of the lats and all the upper back musculature at the top could be a possibility. That would lower the weight you use, of course, but no . . . for my money that round back at bottom should go, no matter the poundage.

Because the Stiff Legged Deads are included later on, and because of their rep range, I think the rows in this instance are meant to be something of a pumping, bodybuilding thing. But if you've ever done them with some challenging weight for the set/rep scheme here, you'll know that they can get your heart pumping and lungs panting too.

Also note that McCallum chooses here to put the Squat, meant to be the most demanding exercise, AFTER the upper body work. Some layouts get the high rep squatting done straight out of the gate while your freshest. Not in this case. I do know that the first bunch of workouts you ever do heavy, high rep squats in don't really leave much desire to do say, 'rough handled' standing presses or higher rep barbell rows.

What type of weight selection would be most beneficial in these three sets:
same weight each set,
progressively heavier over the three sets, or
progressively lighter over the three sets?

Nothing said about it in the article. Which do you think would be the best choice?

Life's too short to worry about longevity.

Edited by Neander on 09-14-16 11:36 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

09-15-16 09:28 AM - Post#841310    

On the "round your back" thing, I agree 150% with nixing any rounding of the spinal erectors. They should be locked throughout the performance of the set. However, rounding the upper back is a cue I do use in teaching the bent-over row, to encourage people to relax the lats, rhomboids, and lower traps into a "dead hang" position at the bottom of the rep. It's not really rounding; flaring is likely a better term, but you do feel as though your upper back rounds as you relax the musculature.

In terms of weight scheme, I'd personally throw progressively lighter right out. Never liked it, and it's suicide to take multiple sets to failure for a program you're supposed to repeat three times a week. I think the program is most sustainable (and closest to what I believe was the author's intention) as straight sets with the final one at RPE 8-9.5.

I will say that although I like putting heavy squats first in a full-body workout, I really like putting high-rep squats at the end. It's hard to work your upper body too hard to want to squat, but it's pretty easy to work the squat hard enough that you want to bail on the upper body.

The more I eat and the heavier I train, the better my genetics get. If you're not paraplegic and not squatting, please kick your own ass for me." "Do you really think that the reason most guys don't have big arms is purely because of a lack of doing curls?" --Alwyn Cosgrove "There is only one gram of carbs in STFD and no carbs at all in STFU." --Byron Chandler "Use meaningful loads to achieve results." --Big Vic http://www.stoneagefitnessconcepts.com

09-15-16 04:25 PM - Post#841315    

For this routine I agree completely with

• Quoting:

I think when we get to the 2 x 15 in the Squat there'll be some things I'll be able to take away that are new to me.

Life's too short to worry about longevity.

Re: Keys To Progress 2.0
09-15-16 07:51 PM - Post#841319    

• Neander Said:

Starr:

• Quoting:

Starr likes the "Olympic-Style Press" instead: http://startingstrength.com/articles/olympic_pres s_starr.pdf

09-15-16 09:34 PM - Post#841321    

In the anecdata department: BNP tend to make my shoulders feel better. And regular presses can gank up my back, even if I'm not leaning.

In my case, some of this is probably related to my somewhat kyphotic neck. BNP the presses aren't as far back for me.

09-15-16 10:15 PM - Post#841324    

I think front presses feel great and behind-the-neck presses feel awful. Dave likes PBNs a lot, and I've never seen him do front presses, although he used to do clean & presses back in the 60s. I've heard him several times answer the 'if you could only do one exercise' question with "clean & press."

Keys To Progress 2.0
09-16-16 12:02 AM - Post#841329    

That whole 'bow and arrow' technique of the 'near its removal from competition' Olympic Press ain't easy to master, especially for beginners. Push pressing is pretty simple, and I think it tends to make the novice more conscious of how important the lower body is in a Press. Once you get to the point where you're using a challenging weight, there's no choice but to 'solidify' the whole body when it's overhead. Or if you're getting a wee bit fatigued, as anyone does when standing pressing in sets of 12 reps as here, you really have to get your whole body in on the torture.

I should re-read that Bill Starr piece. Matter of fact, it'd be real wise re-read anything and everything written by that particular wise fella.

But the Standing Behind the Neck Press, treating the bar as McCallum describes, 'roughly,' with a 'rebound' at the bottom, could lead to a lot of beginning lifters with bumps on the back of their heads

I like them behind the neck and can feel it in my delts much more that way. Unfortunately I can't use near the weight I can in the front version, strict or pushed.

Life's too short to worry about longevity.

Edited by Neander on 09-16-16 12:06 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

Re: Keys To Progress 2.0
09-16-16 12:09 AM - Post#841330    

A little side note here.

I don't know about you but I've been fighting the urge to do this routine the last two days, even though I'm doing real well with the goal and routine variants that I've been with for the last 14 weeks.

How dumb is that!

Life's too short to worry about longevity.

Re: Keys To Progress 2.0
09-16-16 12:26 AM - Post#841331    

Exercise 3: Bench Press, 3 x 12 reps.

"For chest and arms. Use a normal press width grip. Don’t pause at the bottom. Arch your back a very little bit and fire it back up again. This will thicken your arms and shoulders and put slabs of meat on your chest. Work up into heavy weights."

Yes, for chest AND arms. There's no triceps isolation exercises in this layout. So he's recommending a grip that's probably a little closer than most people use on their benches at first. No pause, a very little bit of an arch and a dynamic and explosive push back to the lockout. I'm guessing this should be quite a rhythmic version of the barbell dance. Pump out the reps without a crazy amount of cheating and aim for more and more weights while maintaining the prescribed style.

When I first started looking at some of the 'older' lifting layouts, I think it was something of Doug Hepburn's, I was always confused by the lack of direct triceps isolation stuff. "These old dudes didn't have a clue! Where's the triceps work?" Yeah, right, I was thoroughly modern in my training. Talk about being a newbie and a boob, eh! The overheads and the prones are plenty if you're working hard enough, though. It took me a couple of years to really believe that and not keep plunking in some pressdowns or extensions in every routine I used. And all the while wondering why my Press and Bench numbers were so hard to improve on. Duh.

The last while I've been talking on the phone and over coffee at my dump with a fella who trained at Hepburn's best gym for years. He doesn't remember ever seeing Doug do direct triceps exercises. I think when I asked him he replied, "Why the hell would he!"

And I guess that leads a little to what some (especially beginners and a bit beyond beginners) might see as a 'lack of enough work' in this layout. The biggest mistake I believe a beginner can make is focusing on quantity and not quality. Doing more training instead of adding more weight to the bar. It's that simple, really, and I think that's what McCallum is trying to emphasize in this one.

Okay, a little anecdote from my 'older lifter' friend again. First place he worked out at was a double garage that some older, more experienced guys converted into a low rent East Side weight palace. Two of the seasoned lifters would coach the newbies on the powerlifts and the quick lifts. My friend goes in on a Monday and takes the prescribed workout medicine. All good. He shows up again on Tuesday, thinking this is a good thing, and they tell him NO! GO HOME! WHAT DID I TELL YA!!! MONDAY WEDNESDAY FRIDAY!

Fine. He shows up on Wednesday and again goes through the workout they gave him. All good again. Come Thursday he's back at the garage with a couple of friends and warming up when the main man comes in. This is a rather large fellow with a lot of years of lifting under his belt and on his body. Strong guy. He takes my friend and throws him out the double garage door without a word. Bum's rush. Message noted.

So, says my friend, that's when I figured it out, got smart and . . . wait for it . . . set up my first home gym. He did figure it out later, though, and I was surprised how little actual gym time he put in to eventually get to a 700 dead and high 5's squat. Sure, it was a lot of years, but it was not a lot of hours.

Imagine a young guy at the peak of his gaining years, testosterone max, with just enough casual lifting experience to be able to do the exercises in this first layout close enough to right to get started. Put blinders on the kid, get him to do this routine for four full months without fiddling about with it, make him keep pushing and pulling for more weight every workout and eat enough of the proper food. In four months time you wouldn't recognize anything but the guy's face.

Life's too short to worry about longevity.

Edited by Neander on 09-16-16 01:27 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

Re: Keys To Progress 2.0
09-16-16 08:13 AM - Post#841341    

• Neander Said:

You're not the only one. I've been strongly considering picking this routine back up on Monday.

The more I eat and the heavier I train, the better my genetics get. If you're not paraplegic and not squatting, please kick your own ass for me." "Do you really think that the reason most guys don't have big arms is purely because of a lack of doing curls?" --Alwyn Cosgrove "There is only one gram of carbs in STFD and no carbs at all in STFU." --Byron Chandler "Use meaningful loads to achieve results." --Big Vic http://www.stoneagefitnessconcepts.com

Re: Keys To Progress 2.0
09-16-16 08:18 AM - Post#841342    

I blame this routine for my lack of sleep this week. I'll get up early thinking "should I do it?". I usually get excited about training then want to try it in the AM

Re: Keys To Progress 2.0
09-16-16 08:30 AM - Post#841343    

• Neander Said:

One of the great insights from the powerlifting world is that there are a handful of 500-lb benchers with unimpressive chests, but there are no 500-lb benchers with unimpressive arms. I'm on board with the idea that direct triceps work to build mass on the arms is unnecessary and possibly counterproductive--especi ally given that the universal recommendations for triceps mass are slight variations on the two biggest upper-body presses, the bench and the dip. I've experimented with removing direct arm work entirely, subbing in chins or close-grip pulldowns for curls, but I tend to keep the curl in.

And your notes on putting in quality work a few hours a week are dead on. I'd be bigger and stronger than I am were I less of a stimulus junkie. I know what works best, but I like being in the gym nearly every day. It's the same basic reason the beginner routine in Arnold's encyclopedia is inferior to the Reg Park routine Arnold actually followed as a beginner.

The more I eat and the heavier I train, the better my genetics get. If you're not paraplegic and not squatting, please kick your own ass for me." "Do you really think that the reason most guys don't have big arms is purely because of a lack of doing curls?" --Alwyn Cosgrove "There is only one gram of carbs in STFD and no carbs at all in STFU." --Byron Chandler "Use meaningful loads to achieve results." --Big Vic http://www.stoneagefitnessconcepts.com

Re: Keys To Progress 2.0
09-16-16 08:58 PM - Post#841382    

• Neander Said:

Rip follows Starr on "bow" hips-forward technique: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMAiNQJ6FPc





Edited by Jack C on 09-16-16 09:00 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

09-17-16 09:47 AM - Post#841409    

And yet another option for stalling on this routine, in addition to Chris' suggestion is to do the same thing from the beginning with different exercises. Do DB's for example, stall, take it to H/L/M, stall, switch it again And do new exercises. By Using this routine more as a template it could possibly be used WAY past the 4 months.

Keys To Progress 2.0
09-17-16 05:33 PM - Post#841425    

Jack -- thanks for the link to the Rippetoe video! I wanted to see a tutorial on how to perform a Press with that technique.

Worth noting that there's no direct calf work in this layout either. He gets to that later on.

I AM NOT GOING TO SWITCH TO DOING THIS ROUTINE!
STAY THE COURSE!

Okay, that being said and determined, next is Exercise No. 4: Barbell Curl, a set of 10 reps and not considered to be of much importance here. I figure that what was said about the direct triceps training could apply here as well. You got your barbell bent row going on, so all is well so long as weight is being added regularly to the other more taxing movements.

Exercise No. 5: Squat. 2 x 15 reps.

Do them in breathing style. Three monstrous breaths between each rep. Don’t pause at the bottom. Go down to slightly below parallel and bounce back up as hard and smooth as you can. Push hard. Fight. Drive. You should work up to about 150% of your body weight for 15 reps.

It might be good to have more detailed information in an updated version of this article. We could take the main points one at a time?

First off, there's the breathing. For beginners, I'd go with all three lung-busting breaths between every rep, taking full advantage of the Eells-style true breathing squat technique. Even when the weights get heavier, there's basically a form of the Hise Shrug happening if it's done right.

Maybe more experienced lifters would be better off using the 'as many breaths as needed between reps' approach. For them, it's the weight on the bar that's the bottom line, not so much the breathing, in my opinion.

Secondly, there's the depth issue. "Go down to slightly below parallel . . ." I'm seeing this as saying that this is not a Deep Knee Bend. Hey, it's 1965 and the very deep Olympic style Squat would still be considered the 'real' way to do it. Powerlifting didn't get together enough to stage its first National competition until 1965, and I believe that for the most part deep squats were the norm still. I could be way off here, though. It'd be sweet to have a few people here who were there at the time chime in on this.

McCallum may have been recommending a squat style that allowed the maximum amount of weight, one that was more hip dominant than the Oly version. It would also affect the bigger muscle structures more effectively. Maybe this should be a power squat and not performed as a deep, high bar squat? Some forward lean, a wider than Deep Knee Bend stance, bar a bit lower and the lower legs remaining close to straight up and down throughout?

"Bounce back up . . ." I'm likely not the only person who was confused by that phrase. It could easily be interpreted as a literal bounce from the bottom, but since he gives a depth limit unless your butt and rear thighs are enormous hanging things that won't happen. I see it as a muscle 'rebound' that can be taken advantage of. There's a definite tightness of the hamstrings that happens just below parallel, I like to view it like a slingshot out of the bottom position. Once you get the depth locked in right coming out of the below parallel position hard and fast can definitely feel like a 'rebound' - not to be confused with dropping down fast and bouncing back up. Gadzooks and heaven forbid, no! So it's more of a spring that's being coiled from the moment you start to descend, then, after reaching the bottom position, there's that pogo stick thing that you take full advantage of with a dynamic explosion out of the hole.

Okay, now for the weight selection. Of course his 150% goal is there to inspire the lifter to keep adding more and more to the bar. But the question of how much weight to use for the second set is open to debate. Could a beginner do a real tough set of 15, do some light pullovers and take a break, and then do it again with the same poundage? I kinda doubt it, once he's up to real hard first 15. I do know from experience that, if you're going all out on the first set of 15, you won't be able to get all 15 reps on the second set even if you take a good long rest. And the time factor (The Time Factor!) here is limited, so a 15 minute break won't be permissible.

I always wondered why he didn't say anything about the second set. Some say to drop the weight on the second set a certain percentage, or 50 lbs. I think it might be best, over a couple of workouts once you're firm in the performance and exerting to the max on set on, to feel it out and find out how much of a drop you as an individual require. But make sure you're honestly taking off just enough weight so that you can, again, barely make the 15 reps.

Life's too short to worry about longevity.

Edited by Neander on 09-17-16 05:48 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

09-17-16 07:20 PM - Post#841428    

Ahh the breath issue. My paralysis by analysis. I've always had an issue with this, I blame Dan John and MMS. I can take the punishment of the squat thanks to him. But I can stay there and breathe till the cows come home to get my 10, 15 reps or 20. So I have a hard time differentiating failure on this particular exercise.

I constantly wonder how to progress on this. Currently I'm only taking 1 deep breath with 5 reps. But after reading this I'll try "whatever works" for the day.

As to the right. Maybe here the suggestion is to do them to where the second set is the tough one. Breathing being the main focus, Ells style, but slightly heavier. Setting up the lifter for the hard work to come. The 150% is more of a goal to meet down the road after many of McCallums lessons. Lessons where he is specific as to how much weight too add or subtract on each set.

Re: Keys To Progress 2.0
09-18-16 02:04 PM - Post#841455    

• Neander Said:

I'm actually in favor of keeping to three breaths for advanced lifters as well, for reasons also addressed when you get to the question of weight for the second set: three breaths do three things. First, of course, they increase time under tension and allow the Hise Shrug effect. Second, they encourage doing the set as a cluster of fifteen singles, allowing more weight than you could handle for a straight set of 15. Third, though, they simultaneously provide a limiting element that keeps you from absolutely burying yourself with squats. I can't help but think that the note about advanced guys taking more breaths and the note about advanced guys not being able to repeat the weight as straight sets within a reasonable timeframe are related.

• Neander Said:

I've always understood these as high-bar squats to parallel, although I've experimented with low-bar powerlifting squats, full Olympic squats, and even box squats. As the foundation of a bodybuilding series in a Hoffman magazine, though, I'd assume McCallum intended that his readers do a "half squat," which would be an Olympic squat taken only to parallel. It should remain a heavily quad-dominant movement, in my opinion.

• Neander Said:

Here, I read his description as controlled descent, no transitional time in the hole, explosive ascent, and three breaths at the top. Using Ian King's notation, something like 40X3.

• Neander Said:

On the second set, a decent rule of thumb (and one found elsewhere in McCallum) is to use first set weight or bodyweight, whichever is lighter. It's also good to push the second set to stay up with the first set until you can't repeat it with a five-minute rest, rather than knock down automatically.

The more I eat and the heavier I train, the better my genetics get. If you're not paraplegic and not squatting, please kick your own ass for me." "Do you really think that the reason most guys don't have big arms is purely because of a lack of doing curls?" --Alwyn Cosgrove "There is only one gram of carbs in STFD and no carbs at all in STFU." --Byron Chandler "Use meaningful loads to achieve results." --Big Vic http://www.stoneagefitnessconcepts.com

09-18-16 04:55 PM - Post#841462    

Honestly, what McCallum has described for these kinds of squats has always sound like it's closer to Rip's descriptions of low bar squats - just below parallel, and Rip talks about the stretch reflex being something used to start the ascent, which sounds an awful like the bounce McCallum is describing.

Keys To Progress 2.0
09-18-16 07:39 PM - Post#841464    

All right, now we're getting into it! The things I think of are not the things another will. And that's how we can learn more, and enjoy the being of each other more.

Enough gushing and back to the real deal.

• Quoting:

What the! I can't believe I haven't looked at doing high rep breathing squats as a series of SINGLES. That's golden for me, 'cause it's often the idea of say, 15 reps, that can be tough to overpower. Sure, 15 singles with a small break between each, each one feeling progressively heavier. Good Stuff.

I say stick to the recommended 3 Breath Method. What's probably going to turn out here, for me for sure, is finding that McCallum knew way more than me about all this, and that he thought long and hard on the routine designs. I'm enjoying getting a better look at the 'whys' a lot. Enjoying seeing them as I haven't before.

• Quoting:

I can see that, no question. If we were to update this routine, you would still choose the quad-dominant version? I'd sure like to hear more on the why of that, if it's cool.

• Quoting:

That's kind of my take on it, so far. But there's more than likely reasons, and I'll bet Chris has some, why the Oly style parallel ones are preferable. Honestly, I can't remember ever doing Oly squats to parallel and no further, and that's another thing I just picked up here. For me it's always been all the way down with Oly or Front squats, unless they're specifically from a higher position and done from the bottom.

But it's wide open to discussion of course. Why, a guy could even see what doing the first set with the Oly squats and the second one as Power squats yielded.

• Quoting:

Absolutely. I remember that rule of thumb from other McCallum routines - first set weight or bodyweight, whichever is lighter. But didn't remember it well enough, it seems!

I am really having a tough time not going with this routine tomorrow. Dang it! Hey, I just did almost four months of the three powerlifts, and nothing else. I feel kinda bored and uninspired with the prospect of continuing that . . .

Life's too short to worry about longevity.

Edited by Neander on 09-18-16 07:43 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

09-18-16 08:27 PM - Post#841469    

Great analysis!

Are the weights light enough to do same-weight sets, or are they drop sets (lower weight 2d set, same reps), or same weight 2d set, lower reps?

This is McCallum Annotated.

Re: Keys To Progress 2.0
09-18-16 10:00 PM - Post#841475    

• Neander Said:

Rip's logic for power squats is that they allow more weight, which develops more all around body power.

There's a logic that if what you're going for is a whole body stimulatory effect, which is obviously the deal here, that you might something closer to the power squat for similar reasons - basically, the body is supporting a greater load, and it's more work for the powerful muscles in the hips and back.

So a more quad dominant form might be less ideal. Which is speculation on my part - I do know a bunch of breathing squat routines I've read specially do recommend only go to parallel or a little below, which would make me think the heavier weights were part of the magic.

As a related thought, Dan Martin brought up a point that hadn't occurred to me and might have merit - that part of the magic of high rep squats (and good mornings) is the body supporting a load for extended period of time.

Which is interesting. Certainly, if everything from the neck down is under a couple hundred pounds load for a minute straight, I can at least hypothetical see that basically all the bones and muscles are getting a stimulus.

Dunno, that could be bro science though.

I got to look up and see if JC Hise recommended HOW to do squats. Obviously, Roger Eells didn't think load was as important.

Re: Keys To Progress 2.0
09-19-16 01:26 AM - Post#841478    

• Quoting:

I'm having a real hard time finding something about that, something I'm sure I read SOMEWHERE. I seem to remember (and this isn't good enough, there's gonna have to be a better, much better source in print out there), seem to remember the Hise squatting style to be a true bounce off the bottom. An almost uncontrolled drop to the real bottom and a bounce of the thighs off the calves. Round back and all. Scary stuff! Really have to find that write up.

I do know the Hise and Berry were doing a lot of the bouncing and rebounding type of lifting. Hopper deadlifts and such.

Life's too short to worry about longevity.

Edited by Neander on 09-19-16 01:26 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

Keys To Progress 2.0
09-19-16 01:32 AM - Post#841479    

All right! Here it is - from an article titled "The Chest Shaping Squat, Part Two, by J.C. Hise and Thomas Bruno. And I have to mention that I was given the chance to read this article courtesy of Jeff Schanz.

Hise was a character, and I love his take on life and his style of writing. This material is certainly dated, though, so take that into account and keep it in mind when shaping your perspective, as always. We could side track off here a bit and discuss that, for sure we could get into a little on the Hise stuff below on squatting.






Now in coming to matters of supreme importance in regards to the results you can expect from using this breathing style or technique, pay close attention and read carefully, so that you may carefully implant in your own mind the proper method of procedure so as to facilitate your receiving the maximum of results in a minimum of time.

First I might say that it will make little difference as to which style of deep knee bend you use. If you use the style in which you place the bar on your shoulders behind your neck, may I advise you to use a cambered (bent) bar in order to facilitate and guarantee your proper performance of the deep knee bend with the minimum of annoyance and maximum of safety to you. If you use the hip belt knee bend you can disregard all the above and merely concentrate on the breathing.

Now having gone along with you up to the point in which you have the cambered bar on your shoulders perfectly balanced, let us assume the proper stance in regards how far our feet are apart. I personally seldom set my feet more than 16 inches apart and generally nearer 12 or 13 inches. (Hise used this approximately in the middle 1930’s – now he uses the squat with heels 2 to 6 inches apart. If the feet are too wide, the concussion effect caused by the rebound is impossible. The exerciser should place his heels at a “comfortable” distance apart, which is usually near 12 inches. Many will need a plank under their heels to give stability – high heels of loggers’ shoes are just right for the majority. Now having hurdled this difficulty, let us go on to the proper breathing methods which I assure you will give you the utmost aesthetic potential of which your chest is capable of assuming.

Take three very fast deep breaths, through the mouth of course. No exerciser should ever breathe through his nose when exercising (nose breathing is very natural for Eells, experience forced this mouth breathing for exercise purposes). Make supreme efforts to breathe in such a way as to make the efforts felt way up in your upper chest. This is the secret of this most superior chest growing squat. You must strive to get away from abdominal breathing in the squat, which can only ruin the aesthetic effect of your chest to onlookers.

Now if you are breathing correctly, your chest and shoulders will rise and fall in rhythmic fashion – and NOT your diaphragm, as in the case of abdominal breathing. Abdominal breathing squats will square the lower rib box, while this upper chest, or costal breathing squat will give you the tapering effect so earnestly sought by most bodybuilders to the utmost degree of which your body is capable of assuming. Beginners can expect wonders from this style of breathing, and advanced men who have been using abdominal breathing will work remarkable transformations on their chests in period of three months of so as I did in making the change in breathing style from abdominal to costal style.

Having finished the third deep breath and with proper poundage loaded on your cambered bar, you suddenly lower yourself into the squat, making an effort to bounce off of your calves upon hitting the bottom by the simple expediency of contracting your leg muscles which will snap you upwards in order to give you your maximum potential in squat leverages, and repeat never less than 20 times.

Now in regards the style of squat you should use, round back (for the rebound is performed back-style as Hise calls it or with the spine in straight position in “round back style”), or with the normal flat back position used by Rader and Berry. I will say from observation, follow your own natural inclinations, sooner or later you will find the style in which you can exert your leverage to the utmost advantage and efficiency in the squat. Do not be overly influenced by what you read about others advocating, use what will bring to you the results in the shortest possible time, and remember that all of us possess individual variations in leverages as far as the squat is concerned and that you are exercising for results in a minimum time. I might add at this time if you are of the tall string bean type that it may be to your advantage to squat with your thighs parallel to the floor, as Peary Rader advocates, and if you are having trouble with your back adopt a strict flat back style in the squat, at least until your back is well again, and then let your conscience be your guide.

Function builds structure. Use the abdominal breathing style and you lose all chances of PLEASING chest shape. Adopt the style of breathing which forces you to breathe high in the upper chest and you build a structure which gives you a pleasing effect, a pleasant taper from waist to under the arm and the piling on of growth at the upper part of the chest where the tape may never reach it, but which the eye will reach instantly, for in this new style of breathing discovered by Roger G. Eells and used by him to the exclusion of others we have the magnum opus of technique.

In coming around to the pullovers, I will try to give you a short outline as to how they should be performed, poundage and what style I have found best. To begin with, the bent arm pullover has it all over the other pullovers for many reasons:

1.) It is not so hard on the deltoid muscles which cap the shoulders and therefore allows us to avoid sprains.
2.) It gives afar more pleasing aesthetic effect to the chest, for straight arm pullovers reach the lower chest principally, whereas the bent arm pullover arches and reaches the upper chest almost exclusively, a valuable exercise to be used in piling up growth at the upper part or your chest where it will make you look your best in conjunction with your breathing squats performed as listed above.

Now in coming to the amount of weight to be used, do not go over 60 pounds, and this for very strong men with favorable leverage at the very most, as a chest exercise. More will work wonders on your arms, but will result in stalemate as far as your chest is concerned and here is my reason for asking the use of a light weight in the bent arm pullovers. When using a very light weight in the bent arm pullover all your chest muscles are relaxed, as your arms go backwards behind your head and because they are relaxed you will get maximum amount of stretching and arching of your chest and rib box. Now in using a heavier weight the opposite effect is noticed, due to the use of the heavy weight your arms alone cannot handle the situation so all the chest muscles chime in to help, principally the serratus magnus which intertwine the rib box, so as the arms start backward behind your head as you are lying in a horizontal position the chest muscles clamp around your chest like steel bands in order to help you complete the movement. But where is the stretching and arching of the rib box? Gone. Nonexistent, because we have defeated the very purpose which we sought to accomplish, viz. the maximum stretching and arching of the rib box.

As we come to the actual performance of the bent arm pullover I will say in th beginning you should be using a bench about 10 or 12 inches high, 16 inches wide and about 48 inches long to perform on in order to allow the bell to drop down below the level of the bench top. Lie down on the bench with about a 40-pound barbell (or a short bar 15 or 18 inches long in cramped quarters) in your hands, which should be 10 to 12 inches apart. Your lower arms and upper arms to be bent at right angles with the elbows at your sides. Now lock your arms in this relative position all the way through the movement and start the bell on its way back, meantime breathing very deeply through the mouth and continue the movement until the weigh is at least as low or lower than the level of the bench top. It is of utmost importance to keep the elbows at the same distance apart, as when starting, and the upper and lower arms are always in the same relative position of right angles to each other throughout the complete range of the movement. Having reached the lowest extremity in which the bell has descended you bring the bell back to the starting position, exhaling in the interim and repeating at least 20 repetitions.

If you do this correctly the barbell will describe an arc throughout the complete movement, and your elbows as they reach the lowest extremity will be pointing upwards and not horizontally (as they would be in the straight arm pullover). Do the exercise slow and rhythmically and results for you are assured, if you render honest endeavor to master and make these exercises second nature to you.

Here's the two part article in full:

http://ditillo2.blogspot.ca/2010/11/chest-shaping- squat-part-one-jc-hise.html

http://ditillo2.blogspot.ca/2010/12/chest-shaping- squat-part-two-joseph.html

Dig around in there and figure out if he's talking only about the lighter breathing squat deal, or if it's meant to apply to the heavier thing too. Even if you can't decipher that from it, the read is worth it anyhow. Hise was a crazy interesting guy and his writing definitely reflects that! I wonder if Thomas Bruno even existed, or if Hise simply made that bit up.

Life's too short to worry about longevity.

Edited by Neander on 09-19-16 01:47 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

09-19-16 07:49 AM - Post#841484    

Hi folks,
Enjoying this thread about McCallum and hope to contribute in the future.

Re: Keys To Progress 2.0
09-19-16 07:53 AM - Post#841485    

Ditto, some top rate analysis going on.

• Chris McClinch Said:

Silly question, what is first set weight?

Edited by Eric R on 09-19-16 07:53 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

Re: Keys To Progress 2.0
09-19-16 09:13 AM - Post#841490    

• Neander Said:

I would. Kind of like we've discussed on performance cues for other exercises, it's important to remember that this is a bodybuilding series, first and foremost, and from a bodybuilding perspective, the primary purpose of squats is to pack mass on the quads. Shifting work away from the quads is detrimental to this purpose, even if it does allow you to handle more weight. I'd think about something both Louie Simmons and Dave Tate have said about advanced lifters coming to train at Westside: "When guys come here, their quads shrink, but their squats go up."

I've also found, for myself and others I've worked with, that high bar squats three times a week are much more forgiving on the lower back than low bar squats three times a week.

• Neander Said:

And that's a new idea for me. I like that, and may try it. :-)

• Neander Said:

I'm about 95% positive I'm doing the Time Factor workout today.

The more I eat and the heavier I train, the better my genetics get. If you're not paraplegic and not squatting, please kick your own ass for me." "Do you really think that the reason most guys don't have big arms is purely because of a lack of doing curls?" --Alwyn Cosgrove "There is only one gram of carbs in STFD and no carbs at all in STFU." --Byron Chandler "Use meaningful loads to achieve results." --Big Vic http://www.stoneagefitnessconcepts.com

Re: Keys To Progress 2.0
09-19-16 09:23 AM - Post#841491    

• Justin Jordan Said:

I like Rip, but it's important to note his biases: he's a lifter, first and foremost, and for him the purpose of muscle is to move weight. That's fine, and it's even possible that a more hip-dominant squat will add more muscle to the entire frame than a more quad-dominant squat. Part of the question in reviewing a bodybuilding series, though, is whether it's going to add muscle in the right places. Much like the ideal bench pressing form to move as much weight as possible is dramatically different from the ideal form to maximally develop the pectorals, so the power squat (in which you're primarily loading the glutes, hips, and hamstrings to explode the weight back up) is dramatically different from the ideal bodybuilding squat (in which the load is concentrated on the quads to the greatest extent possible).

• Justin Jordan Said:

Working into heavy weights is definitely part of the magic. Even with a more upright squat, part of the point of the breaths is to allow you to do 15 reps with more than your 15 RM.

• Justin Jordan Said:

And I agree with Dan Martin's take 100%. There's something to the time for which your full body is under tension. It's also related to the "inner tube" effect Dan John talks about with loaded carries.

The more I eat and the heavier I train, the better my genetics get. If you're not paraplegic and not squatting, please kick your own ass for me." "Do you really think that the reason most guys don't have big arms is purely because of a lack of doing curls?" --Alwyn Cosgrove "There is only one gram of carbs in STFD and no carbs at all in STFU." --Byron Chandler "Use meaningful loads to achieve results." --Big Vic http://www.stoneagefitnessconcepts.com

Re: Keys To Progress 2.0
09-19-16 09:28 AM - Post#841492    

• Eric R Said:

The weight you used on your first set. :-)

The more I eat and the heavier I train, the better my genetics get. If you're not paraplegic and not squatting, please kick your own ass for me." "Do you really think that the reason most guys don't have big arms is purely because of a lack of doing curls?" --Alwyn Cosgrove "There is only one gram of carbs in STFD and no carbs at all in STFU." --Byron Chandler "Use meaningful loads to achieve results." --Big Vic http://www.stoneagefitnessconcepts.com

Re: Keys To Progress 2.0
09-19-16 09:35 AM - Post#841493    

Lol...duh. I'm so skinny I forget 180-210 might be BW for some and way too heavy to start if with.

• Chris McClinch Said:

Re: Keys To Progress 2.0
09-19-16 10:58 AM - Post#841498    

• Quoting:

As a practical matter, the 2d set will be less than the stated reps if you're "working hard." McCallum always clearly states when he intends a drop-set scheme to apply, and he chose not to here.






Edited by Jack C on 09-19-16 10:59 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

Re: Keys To Progress 2.0
09-19-16 11:10 AM - Post#841499    

• Jack C Said:

The other approach to "working hard" is the one Dale and I were discussing above: using straight weight, you gauge off how the LAST set feels. The first set or first two sets will be heavy enough to be work sets, but RPE of 8 or below. The final set can be anywhere from RPE 8 (two reps left in the tank) to RPE 9.5 (probably don't have any left in the tank, but not starting any reps you're not going to finish). This is actually more consistent with how most of the three days a week programs were written, as the other approach is a recipe for rapid burnout.

The more I eat and the heavier I train, the better my genetics get. If you're not paraplegic and not squatting, please kick your own ass for me." "Do you really think that the reason most guys don't have big arms is purely because of a lack of doing curls?" --Alwyn Cosgrove "There is only one gram of carbs in STFD and no carbs at all in STFU." --Byron Chandler "Use meaningful loads to achieve results." --Big Vic http://www.stoneagefitnessconcepts.com