09-27-13 12:10 AM - Post#783606    

Hi Dan,

I've just read your article about the 10,000 rep swing workout at T-nation.

My question is would you have a minimum level of fitness and competence at KB swings in mind for someone before suggesting that they could do this program?

09-27-13 07:57 AM - Post#783620    

I´d suggest to have a session with an StrongFirst or RKC instructor first. Of course posting videos of your swing here would be one option.

Related to that article I was wondering if there was any sense doing the sets of 10 (and maybe 15 reps) with a heavier bell. Although the program is loaded with volume it would feel sensible for heavier athletes.

Most likely the best option would be to actually do one workout myself and see what´s up..

09-27-13 09:09 AM - Post#783627    

Here's the link in case anyone missed it: http://www.t-nation.com/workouts/10000-swing- kettlebell-workout

I think this might be a good program for the summer...

Check out my critical-thinking blog at sharpenyouraxe.substack.com

09-27-13 09:57 AM - Post#783636    

How long do these workouts generally take?

Workout 1?

Workout 20?

"Every social association that is not face-to-face is injurious to your health." Nassim Nicholas Taleb

09-27-13 10:02 AM - Post#783637    

I didn't know they put it up, sorry. It helps to be good at swings to start it, but "just do it." It's really not that hard and a nice challenge.

Daniel John Just handing down what I was handed down... Make a Difference. Live. Love. Laugh. Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude) Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk. Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth. Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights. Reread great books. Say thank you

Dan's 10,000 Rep KB Swing Workout
09-27-13 10:13 AM - Post#783641    

Dan, great article. They need to edit out the picture of the guys making faces doing swings in the article. Especially the Mr. Clean looking guy doing them in a belt. He looks like a joke.

Editing criticism aside, I've been doing the 10,15,25/Goblet Squat/Push Press with my 88. It's great, though I've only done the 200 and 300 rep workouts.

My suggestion to any one that wants to try this is, make sure you have a pedi-egg and take care of your hands. Your fingers will get tender.

Best of luck to all who try it!

Edited by BChase on 09-27-13 10:14 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

09-27-13 10:51 AM - Post#783645    

"Everyone got leaner, dropping a waist size or two, in 20 workouts."

Is this actually a training effect, or were people watching their diets?

Disclosure: I don't believe in the 1:1 aspect of diet and leanness that seems to be current belief fad, not when experienced trainees can still add lean mass and drop fat somewhat simultaneously.

Thanks, Tom Barrett

09-27-13 12:23 PM - Post#783649    

From talking to doing. Did a workout as follows today.

10 swings, 36kg, 30s rest
1 front squat, 130kg
15 swings, 32kg, 30s rest
2 front squats, 130kg, 30s rest
25 swings, 24kg, 30s rest
3 front squats, 130kg, 30s rest
50 swings, 24kg, 120s rest

Three rounds altogether, since I need to have somewhat fresh legs for tomorrows sports practice. Excellent workout! 50 reps in the swing was a challenge for grip strength. Going to do the full version maybe next week.

09-27-13 12:27 PM - Post#783651    

Wow, impressive Front Squats, Jukka!

My workout log

09-27-13 01:02 PM - Post#783657    

That might be my most edited piece ever. We all noticed good changes, but I would have to go back to the original to figure out what I said and meant.

I looked better...flat out looked better.

Daniel John Just handing down what I was handed down... Make a Difference. Live. Love. Laugh. Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude) Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk. Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth. Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights. Reread great books. Say thank you

09-27-13 01:47 PM - Post#783660    

Dan there was nothing wrong with your end of it at all. It was great. It's just I've never seen a guy do swings with a belt. Swings aren't supposed hurt your back. The guy is making faces using a 24. If it was the beast, yeah, I could understand a little discomfort in the face, but the picture looks like the guy is overcompensating to be hard core.

It would be akin to writing a deadlift article and showing a picture of a guy using straps and lifting in running shoes with a wheel on each end of the bar.

Illustrations need to be correct.

09-27-13 01:47 PM - Post#783661    

Thanks, Dan. Your answer cuts through the crap.

Thanks, Tom Barrett

09-27-13 01:48 PM - Post#783662    

• BChase Said:

You want he should take off his belt after deadlifting 600 pounds to do his swings then put it back on to continue his deadlift?

Thanks, Tom Barrett

09-27-13 01:55 PM - Post#783663    

I wouldn't be supersetting Deadlifts and Swings. Kind of redundant.

Tiger Woods takes his golfing glove off when he putts...

09-27-13 02:11 PM - Post#783665    

LOL

x_x

Squats, then.

Be a little forgiving. The site started out for bodybuilders. Haha!

Thanks, Tom Barrett

Dan's 10,000 Rep KB Swing Workout
09-27-13 02:15 PM - Post#783666    

• Ville Said:

Well, thanks. :)

That´s the lift I´ve been putting most of my effort for some time and it finally bears some fruit.

Edited by Jukka on 09-27-13 02:15 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

09-27-13 08:31 PM - Post#783676    

How best would I modify the volume if I wanted to run this program with a 70# kettlebell? That's all I have right now.

Thanks

09-27-13 11:42 PM - Post#783683    

• Dan John Said:

Just curious, do they edit your actual workout program? Or just the story copy?

Was surprised to see dips in there as an option.

Log

09-28-13 10:39 AM - Post#783699    

Dips seem like a great option esp in terms of easy transition- just step into the dip station.
I'd guess if you did weighted dips you could do the 1-2-3 rep scheme vs the 2-3-5 but it's just a guess.

Less Hercules, more Achilles.

09-28-13 11:12 AM - Post#783703    

We do 500 with heavy KBs by going 10-15. It takes a while, but it is amazing.

Daniel John Just handing down what I was handed down... Make a Difference. Live. Love. Laugh. Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude) Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk. Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth. Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights. Reread great books. Say thank you

09-28-13 01:26 PM - Post#783709    

Ive done the 250rep swings for a month ala "intervention"twice this year. I just may give this one a go before the end of the year.
My WOB throws have improved and deadlifts a bit snappier not to mention my swing groove is dialed in.
You cant go wrong with these swing programs IMO.

09-28-13 01:32 PM - Post#783710    

250 a day is very good.

Daniel John Just handing down what I was handed down... Make a Difference. Live. Love. Laugh. Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude) Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk. Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth. Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights. Reread great books. Say thank you

09-29-13 11:20 AM - Post#783747    

Gave it a go with just the swings with the 24k.
Not hard style obviously. Only made it to 30 swings on the set of 50, first round.

I'll try again before the 10am football game.

Heartrate gets way up there. Hope to just ease into more. When we were throwing yesterday, Gary Kelmenson was taking pictures. In my minds eye, I look like a bowling ball right now. So, need more whatever. This may fit the bill.

09-29-13 01:34 PM - Post#783755    

Pace yourself Tiger.

Mark it Zero.

09-29-13 01:46 PM - Post#783756    

Thanks, Dan.

I'm changing up my swing to be more like a hammer throw. Inside of elbows facing up and shoulders packed down, head slightly back.

Finally feeling like I can hit things hard again.
Though, corrected for age.

09-29-13 01:53 PM - Post#783757    

• Gary John Said:

I'll come over and train with you one of these days.

Mark it Zero.

09-29-13 03:48 PM - Post#783762    

I tried it this afternoon and was schooled. I'm now rethinking my life!

09-29-13 03:48 PM - Post#783763    

...and Gary's right, my heart rate hit 186 a few times.

09-29-13 03:50 PM - Post#783764    

I'm doing DJ's 10,000 swing workout over 3 years.

It comes out to a very manageable number, daily. I don't see what the big hooplah is?

You have been selected for TERMINATION.

09-29-13 04:49 PM - Post#783768    

I'm doing the OSAD workout for the next 27.4 years.

Got good results from doing a couple of hundred a day, 5 days a week. Perhaps 250 a day, 4 days a week would actually work better for me.

Dan's 10,000 Rep KB Swing Workout
09-29-13 05:16 PM - Post#783771    

• Jason Lake Said:

That is an heart rate, that will kill you. A-fib, some don't know it, it is out of whack...

I read, Japanese thoughts about 10,000 steps a day, I figured maybe he is talking the same... That would kill you

"I live, I lift, I ache, I am." - "I don't mean to be rude, but...junk is for jerks" "No pain, no gain' isn’t a nursery rhyme, and 'only the strong survive" ...Etc... Had to put in this quote... Current Quote "Eat better, train harder, be tougher, think surer and rest morer." ~ Draper Dave Draper **** Age 73 Semper Fi... GAB

Edited by Gabster on 09-29-13 05:17 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

09-29-13 05:23 PM - Post#783772    

Only twenty days...once.

The rest of the time 75-250.

Daniel John Just handing down what I was handed down... Make a Difference. Live. Love. Laugh. Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude) Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk. Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth. Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights. Reread great books. Say thank you

09-29-13 05:29 PM - Post#783775    

Dan Martin,

Would love to have you help me out. When we are done, you can buy be lunch....unless of course you bring the sammwiges.

Dan's 10,000 Rep KB Swing Workout
09-29-13 05:43 PM - Post#783779    

It would be fun to try this program further down the road.

right now I'm doing big five and will follow up with 40 day easy strength. After that I was thinking about doing something hard for a couple of weeks maybe smolovs base cycle or something and then top it of with something easier, I guess this could fit as a transition?


As of now I only do 2 x 10 swings with the 24kg in the warmup on my big five workout days(ie 60 per week), would it be wise to sneak in a couple of reps between the sets?

My funky training log! http://www.davedraper.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/26288/tp/1/ (inactive) My new improved log! http://www.davedraper.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/30146/

Edited by Funky on 09-29-13 05:44 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

Re: Dan's 10,000 Rep KB Swing Workout
09-29-13 07:04 PM - Post#783784    

• Jason Lake Said:

• Gabster Said:

Not sure if you're joking, but either way, I don't want anyone reading this to be confused. For some people, it's real easy to train in that range for short durations. it's not even an unusual number for a lot of people.

Dan's 10,000 Rep KB Swing Workout
09-29-13 07:16 PM - Post#783786    

Age does have a lot to do with it for sure...Duration is another issue.

http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/GettingHealt hy/PhysicalActivity/Targe t-Heart-Rates_UCM_434341_ Article....

So if you are over 40 don't go to those heights is my thinking, and if under you have to be in good shape.


Target heart rate zone is your "Target" Just like working with weights, similar, we don't go max that often...

"I live, I lift, I ache, I am." - "I don't mean to be rude, but...junk is for jerks" "No pain, no gain' isn’t a nursery rhyme, and 'only the strong survive" ...Etc... Had to put in this quote... Current Quote "Eat better, train harder, be tougher, think surer and rest morer." ~ Draper Dave Draper **** Age 73 Semper Fi... GAB

Edited by Gabster on 09-29-13 07:18 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

09-29-13 07:34 PM - Post#783788    

I hit the 140s at most now.

But, then it drops like a rock under 100 within about 90 seconds. It is an age thing.

09-29-13 08:39 PM - Post#783792    

We're all hugely different in heart rates. I'm still breathing through my nose up to 155 bpm on the spin bike, and when I was training intervals, I regularly went to above 190...up to 196 occasionally. It doesn't mean I was in worse shape or better shape than anyone else, just that our heart rates are more different than the standard recommendations.

The number i care about more is the recovery number. Work to get that number shorter...way more important.

09-29-13 08:42 PM - Post#783793    

Intervals are all about the rest, not the work.

Mark it Zero.

09-29-13 09:07 PM - Post#783794    

I started a lower-volume version of this today and like it quite a bit.

I don’t currently have the grip strength or conditioning to do the 50-rep sets with the 24kg, so I’m just doing 10, 15, 25 times 5 sets for a total of 250 swings in the workout. This is about twice what I’ve been doing lately, so I think it’s a good way for me to start.

I did presses in between sets, per the program in the article.

If it helps anyone track this, I’m writing them like this:

swing/press – (10/1, 15/2, 25/3) then marking clusters of five (ie. IIII then slash across for five)

I’m thinking I may warm up with 1-2 TGUs per side, then do this program – maybe presses one day, then goblet squats the next – and finish with a loaded carry (farmer’s, rack, or overhead), and planks.

Jason

09-30-13 02:47 AM - Post#783801    

Just on the heart rate thing, the standard deviation for max heart rate on the classic 220-age equation is +/- 10bpm. That's 1 standard deviation. If you remember your statistics, 1 standard deviation either side of the mean is 68% of the population, 2 standard deviations is 95% and 3 standard deviations is 99.7%. So 95% of 40-year olds could have a max heart rate anywhere from 160-200bpm, and another 4.7% could be even further out at 150-210bpm. Then we still have those remaining .3% outliers! This is way too much variation to take seriously from a training point of view.

For the serious lifters, think about it this way: Would you run a percentage-based bench press cycle based off a 1RM calculation from your 10RM? I sure wouldn't.

Further, it has been reported that the calculation tends to overestimate MHR in those under 40 and underestimates it in those over 40. Just to make things even more confusing, especially for the older folks who are more concerned about training too hard but who it turns out have a greater capacity than this calculation is telling them.

There are a few more accurate equations, the most common of which is probably 206.9 - 0.67*age. This still has a SD of around 6bpm, however, so there's still plenty of room for inaccuracy (95% of 40-year olds would be ~168-192bpm).

Ideally, we would all get medical clearance and then do an incremental exercise test to try and get an accurate individual assessment. But that's not really feasible, I suppose.

09-30-13 09:23 AM - Post#783811    

Very interesting! Thanks for writing that up.

Especially good for me, since I didn't take any statistics.

09-30-13 10:01 AM - Post#783813    

Dumb question alert. Or maybe not, if the piece was heavily edited.

It says for the 1-2-3 lifts, you should use a 5RM weight -- just wanted to confirm that that means weighting the chins (and dips?) and establishing/using a 5RM for the goblet squat...

May just possibly have been eating too much recently, so starting this next week.

09-30-13 10:28 AM - Post#783816    

Well, I gave this program a go tonight. I tried the 24kg bell and was pleasantly surprised at my ability to swing it as I have mostly been using the 16kg - the heavier weight seems to focus my technique a lot more, I even made the 50 reps!

On the second round things changed and I was gone halfway through the 50 rep set, probably too much too soon. I think I might build up the rounds slowly over the course of a couple of workouts, dropping the bell weight might be better as well, going back to 16kg until I can get the full 5 rounds.

Regardless the 2 rounds have really ramped up the metabolism and 3-4 hours post workout my glutes and hamstrings are starting to get angry with me...

09-30-13 10:33 AM - Post#783817    

Dan,

I forgot to ask in my original post - Is this just a once-per-year type of program?

09-30-13 10:33 AM - Post#783818    

My wife and I decided to start attacking this tonight. No strength movements for her, but I'm really looking forward to it. Will post results at the end of October.

Dan's 10,000 Rep KB Swing Workout
09-30-13 10:47 AM - Post#783823    

In a perfect world you should/could supplement the swings with the "other" four movements. Namely a push, a pull, a squat and a weighted carry. Choose one and do it lightly to feel the movement.

The swings make it a hinge-centric workout and that's cool!

Don't trip it's only 10,000 reps!

Mark it Zero.

09-30-13 11:35 AM - Post#783838    

Ok got it today, and found it hard, but got it done, with parallel grip pull ups in 44 minutes.

On a side note, I've had my heart rate up to 210 in lab tests and 196 (a few times) cycling up certain hills.

09-30-13 11:41 AM - Post#783839    

• Jason Lake Said:

You're a modern savage...

Mark it Zero.

Dan's 10,000 Rep KB Swing Workout
09-30-13 11:50 AM - Post#783841    

• Jason Lake Said:

That clarification is good, cycling...Lab's...

I'll just mention BP for a second...

http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/medicine/blood-pressu re.htm

Think about difference regarding lifting/swinging, and riding bike.

Look at the difference in body build. Lot more to this than going for max...And staying healthy.

Vehicle, tach...and red line where do you want it at

Tragic, true...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aziz_Shavershian

"I live, I lift, I ache, I am." - "I don't mean to be rude, but...junk is for jerks" "No pain, no gain' isn’t a nursery rhyme, and 'only the strong survive" ...Etc... Had to put in this quote... Current Quote "Eat better, train harder, be tougher, think surer and rest morer." ~ Draper Dave Draper **** Age 73 Semper Fi... GAB

Edited by Gabster on 09-30-13 12:36 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.