mongfu
Total Posts: 72
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05-08-04 08:18 AM - Post#4216
hello eveyone! i was wondering if anyone out there knows of any good studies done on humans (not rats) with glutamine. if so, i would love to see them. evryone takes it, myself included, however, i have yet to see a good human study that was done. stay strong.
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AllYourStrength
Total Posts: 562
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There are literally dozens, if not hudreds. It's one of the most well-researched nutrients ever, particularly in the realm of intestine/gut repair, immune function and protein synthesis. This is just one quick link...reference the studies cited below. There are others in Metabolism, JAMA and AJSM. Then there's the real-world results. I myself will not even think of training without it, but then again I have a very poor recovery system genetically-speaking. 20 grams/day has enabled me to train like I couldn't when I was 20, let alone 40. Hope this helps! Jon http://vitamintrader.com/articles/1997_03_Glutam.html
Jon Benson
Nutrition and Fitness Lifecoach
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cajinjohn
Total Posts: 12495
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Thanks Jon for the study source
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Bill T.
Total Posts: 126
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Hi Jon. How do you take the gluamine (with meals, empty stomach, mixed with food, in capsules)? Do you take all 20 grams at the same time (if yes, when) or do you split it up during the day? Thanks in advance. Bill T.
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mongfu
Total Posts: 72
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thanks very much JON! i have to try more, i usually only take at the most 6-7 grams per day.
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Bill T.
Total Posts: 126
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Hi Jon. It states in this article that more than 2 grams/day can be counter-productive, if not dangerous. You take 20 grams/day. Do you have any concern abut this (ie: it’s working good right now, but long term effects might be negative)? Bil T.
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AllYourStrength
Total Posts: 562
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Hi Bill/Mongfu: There are many studies done with more than 20 grams, but mainly for immune repair, gut repair, etc. I've taken 20 grams for YEARS, but then again there 'could' be a long-term problem that no one is aware of. On paper, high dosages of Vitamin C have a 'risk', but Pauling and others have shown that to be absurd as well. As far as I know, there are no long-term studies done on high glutamine intakes, but from a nutrition perspective, I doubt that high dosages would be a problem if the dosages are cycled. I take 5 grams at a shot, 4-5 times per day, during heavy training cycles. I never 'personally' saw any benefits bodybuilding-wise for taking under 10 grams per day, but once again that's my experience and those of my clients. Perhaps Jerry B. could contribute here, as he knows his stuff!
Jon Benson
Nutrition and Fitness Lifecoach
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Sharon
Total Posts: 898
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I am a neophyte but I can read! I got this information from Life Extension - August 2003
I hope Jon and Jerry, the experienced, indispensible contributors to this board, do not mind me posting this information.
Dosage
According to the Physicians' Desk Reference (PDR) for Nutritional Supplements, glutamine added to TPN (total parenteral nutrition-intraverous feed) can help the recovery of the critically ill, such as trauma and surgical patients. The recommended dosages for glutamine added to TPN in a hospital setting are 12 grams per day for post-surgical patients and approximately 25 grams per day for severe trauma and infections.
While there are no specific recommendations concerning glutamine supplementation for athletes, the PDR states that those who use oral glutamine supplements for sports or fitness purposes usually consume 1.5 to 4.5 grams per day in the form of L-glutamine.
Proponents of glutamine supplementation have also indicated its consumption for other purposes. For example, in his book Dr. Atkins' Vita-Nutrient Solution, the late Dr. Atkins recommended between 5 and 20 grams per day to "stimulate the immune system" when needed, between 2 and 3 grams at the onset of a desire for sweets to help ward off the craving, and up to 40 grams per day for inflammatory bowel disease, leaky gut syndrome, during periods of wound healing or during recovery from a prolonged hospital stay. Dr. Atkins recommended powdered L-glutamine as the easiest and most economical way to obtain this amino acid.7
Although Dr. Atkins stated that none of his patients ever developed side effects from glutamine supplementation, the PDR reports that there have been some cases of constipation and bloating associated with high doses of glutamine in TPN. Furthermore, glutamine is contraindicated in anyone who is hypersensitive to any component of a glutamine supplementation product they plan to take. The PDR also warns that those with kidney or liver problems should be cautious in the use of glutamine supplements and that pregnant or nursing women should avoid glutamine supplementation unless specifically prescribed by their physicians. When taking glutamine supplements, it is probably best to split the recommended dosage into two to four divided servings spread throughout the day.3 As with any vitamin or nutritional supplement, the use of glutamine supplementation should only be done under the supervision of a physician.
Conclusion
Glutamine, the most abundant amino acid in humans, is vital to the proper functioning of our bodies. Research has clearly shown that glutamine is necessary for proper intestinal health and that it plays a major role in fighting infections by acting as a fuel for cells in our immune system. Glutamine supplementation is important for the critically ill and may play a role in helping athletes after prolonged strenuous exercise by decreasing infections and preventing the breakdown of muscle . While the role of glutamine in these and other situations is promising, additional research is needed. The role of glutamine in the body and the potential advantages of glutamine supplementation for both sick and healthy individuals is the focus of on-going intense research efforts throughout the world.
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Jerry Brainum
Total Posts: 130
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I've written a number of highly researched articles on glutamine use for bodybuilding purposes in Ironman magazine. While it's true that the majority of benefits shown for glutamine are mostly derived from studies involving catabolic hospital patients being treated for excessive protein loss (such as burn patients), some studies that have focused on athletes have indeed shown some benefits. This is particulary true for those who are engaged in either intensive training or overtraining. In those cases, glutamine appears to help blunt the catabolic effects of cortisol and maintain immune function. The intestinal cells perfer glutamine as a major fuel source, and such cells are replaced every 3 days, so they are definite glutamine guzzlers. In one of my recent articles about glutamine, I noted that it's quite safe, and doesn't compete with other amino acids for uptake into the body. The downside to glutamine is that those intestinal cells grab most of orally ingested glutamine, but some does get through. The other problem is that glutamine degrades rapidly in a liquid solution,so it must be ingested right away. The latest study, reported at the 2004 meeting of the American College of Sports Medicine found benefits with supplemental use of glutamine for bodybuilders. I'll be writing this up in Ironman.
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mongfu
Total Posts: 72
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thanks Jerry! so then, what would be the recommended amount in powder form daily?
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Jerry Brainum
Total Posts: 130
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Quote:
mongfu said:
thanks Jerry! so then, what would be the recommended amount in powder form daily?
0.3 milligrams per kilogram of bodyweight in divided doses.
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mongfu
Total Posts: 72
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Ken_B.
Total Posts: 43
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Quote:
Jerry Brainum said:
The intestinal cells perfer glutamine as a major fuel source, and such cells are replaced every 3 days, so they are definite glutamine guzzlers. In one of my recent articles about glutamine, I noted that it's quite safe, and doesn't compete with other amino acids for uptake into the body. The downside to glutamine is that those intestinal cells grab most of orally ingested glutamine, but some does get through.
Excellent info Jerry - thanks for taking the time. So it sounds like glutamine might be a protection against overtraining slowing one's results if that individual isn't aware he's overtraining? This sounds like a positive effect in and of itself for those of us that like to spend time in the gym :-).
If the glutamine isn't there (as a supplement) what exactly are the intestinal cells feeding on and is that not diminishing one's odds on improving muscle mass?
Thanks again.
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ccrow
Total Posts: 10055
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Quote:
Jerry Brainum said:
0.3 milligrams per kilogram of bodyweight in divided doses.
Is that a typo?
The most important test a lifter has to pass
is the test of time.
-Jon Cole
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AllYourStrength
Total Posts: 562
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RE: Typo on Jerry's suggestions...perhaps he meant 'grams', but I'd love to hear from the man himself. I'm almost 100kg; 100x.3=30. 30 'grams' seems about right with what I take and the other studies sited. I actually take a bit under that, but it's close. 30 "mg" seems like nothing at all. Jerry, can you clarify? Are we O.D.ing on this stuff!? :)
Jon Benson
Nutrition and Fitness Lifecoach
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Farmer Don
Total Posts: 48
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I found some L-GLUTAMINE in 500 mg tablets at Wal-Mart. The label say's take one tablet daily.That seems very low to me. If I were to take .3mg/kilogram of body weight, I would have to split a tablet into smaller parts.
I weigh 91 kilograms. At 30 grams a day that would be 60 tablets (500 mg each).
Help!! How many should I be taking???
I have been taking more than the one a day-- six as a matter of fact. But this may not be even enough to make any difference. I lift pretty hard . Is my math way off? The bottle has only 50 tablets in it. One bottle would not last very long. So, now I am kind of mixed up.
Jerry and Jon, need some input here. I am really trying hard to gain some mass in my advancing years.
Farmer Don
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AllYourStrength
Total Posts: 562
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I'm still waiting on Jerry's input (his last name says it all... :) Also, my math is LOUSY (I decided it wasn't worth it in college ;) so I could have read his formula wrong. I have had tremendous results from 15-25 grams per day in divided dosages with no side effects. I've done that for years. However, I'd NEVER take it in pill form. Powder is the key, Don, especially at that dosage. It mixes in water or a protein drink and is virtually tasteless. Just a heaping teaspoon is about 6 grams, and the bottles last a good long while. This will help with mass by 'default' in that Glutamine is one of the first aminos to go during hard training, great for gut and intestine repair (hence more food can be absorbed and muscle formed), and you recover quicker (probably from the greater absorption rate.)
Jon Benson
Nutrition and Fitness Lifecoach
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hoopster
Total Posts: 12
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If I had to take 30 grams of Glutamine a day I would shortly go broke buying it. I take four 500 mg pills(2 grams), during the day, and 5 amino acid tablets, plus 2 grams of Tyrosine before I work out, then 2 grams of Arganine, (don't know if I spelled that one right), after I work out. This is based on "stuff" I have read, and I have probably read enough to be dangerous. Not that anyone cares, but I'm 62 and after trying different vitamins, supplements, etc. for several years I settled on those that seem to help me feel pretty good. (Note, I didn't say "great", because I do work out a lot and I'd have to be younger to feel "great".) I manage to keep from going broke by buying most of it from Swanson Vitamins, (this isn't a commercial for Swanson, I did try GNC but I would have gone broke if I kept buying there.) If somebody asked me if all the vitamins and supplements I take do me any good I could only give them my opinion as an answer and that would be "yes".
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Ken_B.
Total Posts: 43
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I take 10 grams of both glutamin and creatine daily. On training days - 5 gm of each 30 min before training and again immeadiatley after training.
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Alex Joseph
Total Posts: 124
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Is Glutamine Supplementation Helpful or Harmful? Provided by Optimal Wellness Center / Mercola.com on 5/1/2004 by Dr. Joseph Mercola Back to Healthy News Dr. Mercola's Comment: Glutamine is an amino acid that makes up the majority of our skeletal muscle. There is some controversy over whether oral glutamine supplementation is toxic or helpful to healthy people. In a past article, Dr. Robert Crayhon expressed the view of many natural medicine experts, "After reviewing the literature, I am unconvinced that high-dose oral glutamine supplementation is toxic to neurons in healthy persons." However, Dr. Russell Blaylock, a board-certified neurosurgeon and author of the highly recommended Excitotoxins: The Taste that Kills wrote in to me with another viewpoint and his response is below. By Russell L. Blaylock, M.D. Advanced Nutritional Concepts, LLC. Dr. Robert Crayhon posted comments on this site indicating that I was terribly mistaken in my caution concerning the use of glutamine and that he had consulted several cell biologists who were also concerned with my statements on glutamine safety. In fact it was stated that I apparently did not understand that glutamine was not an excitotoxin and was not converted into an excitotoxin. Of course, I never stated glutamine was an excitotoxin, but I do state that it is converted into the excitotoxin glutamate within neurons. Numerous recent studies as well as Siegels Basic Neurochemistry textbook emphatically state that the major source of glutamate is from glutamine in the brain. Normally, when the brain finishes using glutamate for chemical communication between brain cells at the synapse the glutamate is taken up by surrounding glial cells and changed by the enzyme glutamine synthease into glutamine, where it is stored. The Problem With Excitotoxins The glutamine is then transported to the neuron and by the enzyme glutaminase, it is converted to glutamate--the potential excitotoxin. I say potential because unless it accumulates outside the brain cell it is harmless. This is the major source of glutamate within the brain. Excitotoxins are usually amino acids, such as glutamate and aspartate. These special amino acids cause particular brain cells to become excessively excited, to the point they will quickly die. Excitotoxins can also cause a loss of brain synapses and connecting fibers. Food-borne excitotoxins include such additives as MSG, aspartame, hydrolyzed protein and soy protein extract. In two recent studies it was found that the amount of glutamine in the brain could predict the brain damage seen both in pediatric brain injuries and brain damage secondary to seizures. Adding large amounts of glutamine to the diet increases significantly brain levels of glutamine and, hence, glutamate. Another study found that by adding glutamine to the diet of animals exposed to another powerful excitotoxin called quinolinic acid, brain cell damage was increased significantly. Quinolinic acid is known to accumulate in the brain in most cases of viral brain infection as seen with HIV dementia and viral encephalitis. Glutamine and Liver Toxicity Individuals with liver toxicity tend to accumulate ammonia in their blood and brain. Until recently, it was assumed that it was the ammonia that caused liver disease-associated brain injury and that glutamine was protective. Newer studies indicate that actually it is the glutamine that is causing the brains injury. Increasing glutamine in the diet would significantly aggravate this damage. Free Radicals in the Brain Glutamine accumulation has also been found in Alzheimers disease, Huntingtons disease and high levels of brain glutamine have been associated with a worse prognosis in Lou Gehrigs disease. Likewise, recent studies have shown that high brain glutamine levels increase brain levels of free radicals and impair the ability of brain mitochondria to produce energy. When the brain produces low energy, excitotoxins, such as glutamate, become even more toxic. It has been shown that the reason for glutamine toxicity under these conditions is because it is converted to the excitotoxin--glutamate. Glutamine and Multiple Sclerosis Of particular concern is the finding that people with multiple sclerosis have increased levels of the enzyme glutaminase (the enzyme that converts glutamine into glutamate) in areas of nerve fiber damage. High levels of glutamine in the diet would increase glutamate levels near these injured areas magnifying the damage. It has been shown that excitotoxicity plays a major role in multiple sclerosis by destroying the cells (oligodendrocytes) that produce myelin. Glutamine and Pregnant Women Another area of concern would be pregnant women. Glutamine passes through the placenta and may actually be concentrated in the babys blood, producing very high levels. Glutamate plays a major role in the development of the babys brain. Excess glutamate has been shown to cause significant impairment of brain development in babies and can lead to mental retardation. When to Use Glutamine The major use for high-dose glutamine would be to repair gastrointestinal injury. In such cases, I would recommend short-term use only. Those with a history of the following conditions should avoid glutamine, even for short-term use: Stroke Neurodegenerative disease Pregnancy Malignancy Recent vaccinations ADHD Hypoglycemia Autism Multiple sclerosis Other neurological disorders Glutamine has recently been shown to produce extreme hypoglycemia, even more so than leucine, which is known to produce fatal hypoglycemia in infants. The reason Chinese Restaurant Syndrome is not seen with glutamine challenge is that the glutamate receptors in the lungs and esophagus are stimulated by glutamate, not glutamine. The glutamine must be converted first and this occurs primarily in the brain. The only safe situation for glutamine use is in the vigorous athlete. Glutamine is used as a muscle fuel, so that vigorous exercise will consume most of the glutamine before it can accumulate in the brain. I would still avoid long-term use in high doses. I would caution readers to avoid excess glutamine, especially in the above named conditions and situations. If you want to learn the true cause of disease & practical inexpensive ways to address it, go to http://www.Mercola.com.
| Eat, Train, Rest, Repeat...... |
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Alex Joseph
Total Posts: 124
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t-mag issue #230 & #231 Glutamine Destroying the Dogma, Part 1 & 2 This basically sums up the writer's opinion on glutamine Glutamine is good for hospital patients and rich people with money to waste. If you’re involved in resistance training and already have proper post workout nutrition, along with a moderate carb intake, then glutamine probably won’t do anything for you. In fact, none of the proposed theories dealing with glutamine supplementation have worked out in the athletic world. It’s also one of the most expensive supplements around (simply based on dosage recommendations), so it’s way too costly to use for personal experimentation — especially when the updated scientific literature doesn’t support the theories. David J. Barr, CSCS, MSc. Candidate, is a Varsity Strength and Conditioning Coach at the University of Waterloo. You can contact him at dbmuscle@hotmail.com.
| Eat, Train, Rest, Repeat...... |
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AllYourStrength
Total Posts: 562
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Alex: Thanks for the posts on Glutamine. If I may counter with the last, with all due respect. First of all, I know Robert (Crayhon) personally (mentioned in the Mercola article). Trust me when I say I would value his opinion over ANY writer for T-Mag when it comes to nutrient supplementation. While Robert is far from a bodybuilder (he looks more like a small-headed Tony Robbins than a bodybuilder), he is a brilliant nutritionist and researcher; and he's on the level. If T-Mag's BioTest line INCLUDED Glutamine, it would be a top item on their promo list. Glutamine may not produce drug-like effects, as most readers of T-Mag are looking for, but it's silly to write it off because of one writer's opinions. His point about carbs is VERY good, however, as I advocate a low-carb diet most of the time and Glutamine takes up a lot of slack. Even on moderate carbs, glutamine does 'something' for you rather than 'nothing'. This is documented in a few of the studies I mentioned and many more I didn't. Besides...and this isn't blowing smoke...I think Jerry B. is just a 'tad' more credible than a CSCS Masters candidate who has a lot of feathers to ruffle in order to draw attention to himself. Jerry's writings on Glutamine in Ironman will help heat this topic up a bit, I imagine. Mr. Barr is not considering the fact that MOST people suffer from improper assimilation of nutrients, and Glutamine (due to the intestinal and gut repair mechanisms) GREATLY assists in this arena. You are not what you eat...you are what you DIGEST. Therefore, Glutamine makes a lot of sense for those of us who do not recover well from workouts—almost always a sign of nutrient intake problems (either not enough food or not enough food being digested and assimilated.) Mr. Barr also radically overestimates the cost of Glutamine. It's not that expensive (about $20-30 a month or so.) I'm not a super-wealthy hospital patient, and I can easily afford it. I've seen Glutamine work for myself and for hundreds of others. Most importantly, I've seen it 'heal' many chronic states of digestive disorders when drugs failed. Blood tests and symptomology do not lie. Rags like T-mag toss out anything this side of Anavar...or so it 'seems'. Then again, I could be wrong. Just my $.02 worth.
Jon Benson
Nutrition and Fitness Lifecoach
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Jerry Brainum
Total Posts: 130
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Quote:
AllYourStrength said:
RE: Typo on Jerry's suggestions...perhaps he meant 'grams', but I'd love to hear from the man himself. I'm almost 100kg; 100x.3=30. 30 'grams' seems about right with what I take and the other studies sited. I actually take a bit under that, but it's close.
30 "mg" seems like nothing at all.
Jerry, can you clarify? Are we O.D.ing on this stuff!? :)
Oops, I did make a typo there, my excuse being that I wrote it about 4 a.m without the influence of caffeine! It is indeed 0.3 grams per kilogram (2.2 pounds) of bodyweight. Why this particular figure? I'm not sure, but this is the level used in nearly all studies on glutmine related to athletic or exercise usage.
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Jerry Brainum
Total Posts: 130
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Quote:
Don said:
I found some L-GLUTAMINE in 500 mg tablets at Wal-Mart. The label say's take one tablet daily.That seems very low to me. If I were to take .3mg/kilogram of body weight, I would have to split a tablet into smaller parts.
I weigh 91 kilograms. At 30 grams a day that would be 60 tablets (500 mg each).
Help!! How many should I be taking???
I have been taking more than the one a day-- six as a matter of fact. But this may not be even enough to make any difference. I lift pretty hard . Is my math way off? The bottle has only 50 tablets in it. One bottle would not last very long. So, now I am kind of mixed up.
Jerry and Jon, need some input here. I am really trying hard to gain some mass in my advancing years.
Farmer Don
Don't even bother taking the tablet form. The powder is far more economical. Usually comes in about 4-5 grams per teaspoon or more of glutamine.
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Jerry Brainum
Total Posts: 130
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Concerning Dr.Blaylock's comments on glutamine toxicity. This doesn't jive with all the published reports I've seen on glutamine. Most such reports involve hospital patients, who would likely be more subject to the problems outlined by Blaylock. Yet this doesn't seem to happen in real life. Blaylock has long championed the excitotoxin theory. There is some merit to the idea that glutamate in the brain is, under certain pathlogical situations, toxic to neurons.One such occassion is during a stroke. Much of the damage caused by strokes related to glutamate flooding, which overwhelms the brain and cause nerve damage. The problem is that many of the doctor's other assertions are merely speculative. I would like to see his published medical evidence that glutamine rapidly converts into glutamate and causes all those neurodegenerative diseases he mentions. I have doubts about the rapidly of glutamine conversion into glutamate with the rapidity he alludes to to. In fact, I've seen just the oppisite: glutamate tends to convert into glutamine. I agree that under certain pathlogical conditions it may be prudent to limit glutamine, such as liver failure. But that doesn't apply to healthy people. The notion that glutamine generates free radicals doesn't make any sense to me, either. Blaylock has made several statements that excitatory amino acids, such as asparate and others, will cause many neurogenertive diseases. He implies that using asparatame, due to its content of both aspartic acid and menthanol, is extremely toxic. Yet this has never been shown in any legitimate published study that I know of. To be sure, some people are sensitive to aspartame, and should probably avoid it. But,again, this man Blaylock is long on theory and short on hard evidence. I consider most of what he says speculation.
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Jerry Brainum
Total Posts: 130
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Quote:
AllYourStrength said:
Thanks for the posts on Glutamine. If I may counter with the last, with all due respect.
First of all, I know Robert (Crayhon) personally (mentioned in the Mercola article). Trust me when I say I would value his opinion over ANY writer for T-Mag when it comes to nutrient supplementation. While Robert is far from a bodybuilder (he looks more like a small-headed Tony Robbins than a bodybuilder), he is a brilliant nutritionist and researcher; and he's on the level. If T-Mag's BioTest line INCLUDED Glutamine, it would be a top item on their promo list.
Glutamine may not produce drug-like effects, as most readers of T-Mag are looking for, but it's silly to write it off because of one writer's opinions. His point about carbs is VERY good, however, as I advocate a low-carb diet most of the time and Glutamine takes up a lot of slack. Even on moderate carbs, glutamine does 'something' for you rather than 'nothing'. This is documented in a few of the studies I mentioned and many more I didn't.
Besides...and this isn't blowing smoke...I think Jerry B. is just a 'tad' more credible than a CSCS Masters candidate who has a lot of feathers to ruffle in order to draw attention to himself. Jerry's writings on Glutamine in Ironman will help heat this topic up a bit, I imagine.
Mr. Barr is not considering the fact that MOST people suffer from improper assimilation of nutrients, and Glutamine (due to the intestinal and gut repair mechanisms) GREATLY assists in this arena. You are not what you eat...you are what you DIGEST. Therefore, Glutamine makes a lot of sense for those of us who do not recover well from workouts—almost always a sign of nutrient intake problems (either not enough food or not enough food being digested and assimilated.) Mr. Barr also radically overestimates the cost of Glutamine. It's not that expensive (about $20-30 a month or so.) I'm not a super-wealthy hospital patient, and I can easily afford it.
I've seen Glutamine work for myself and for hundreds of others. Most importantly, I've seen it 'heal' many chronic states of digestive disorders when drugs failed. Blood tests and symptomology do not lie.
Rags like T-mag toss out anything this side of Anavar...or so it 'seems'. Then again, I could be wrong.
Just my $.02 worth.
Jon:
Excellent points made here. I agree 100% with your assertions. As for T-mag, I can't think of a web site with less scientific credibility that that site. Note that they sell products such as "myostatin blockers" worthless junk that is a total ripoff. Most of their line is also high priced garbage. They attack anyone who disagrees with them, and their primary writer, T.C Leuoma (sic) is a self-admitted liar. He is one of those guys that's quite personable when you talk to him in person, but then takes on a rather nasty online persona of being a sarcastic clown. His writing is geared to 14-year-olds with IQs similar to their ages. This is a guy who writes editorials about his love for blow-up sex dolls. Those who want to trust this guy are more than welcome to.
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Manor
Total Posts: 6773
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I’m really interested in this Glutamine thread; I was not able to workout yesterday because I was just plain burnt. I guess I rushed things from my illness and recovery. I felt strong early in the week, and then “BOZO” decides to break a PR. How foolish can that be? Don’t answer. I know better. I feel much better today, an extra day of rest helped. I read through this whole thread and it makes sense to me, the overtraining, immune deficiency and cortisol, I have to remind myself I’m 41 not 21 but I feel 18! I used to take Glutamine, recommended dosage 5 g a day (powdered form). I felt nothing more from it, so maybe I wasn’t taking enough. I believe from what you all are saying is that if I up my Glutamine to say 20 g a day it should help with recovery and keep the immune in check and hopefully prevent overtraining, at least to a degree. Well I’m going to buy the Glutamine today, and have 20 g a day (5 g at a time). I will also ease off the training and be smart about it. You can’t take away my PR though!! Manor
aka SAVAGE/JDIDAN/Dan the Protein Man
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Earn your supplements
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Tim Mendelsohn
Total Posts: 1557
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Quote:
Manor said:
I’m really interested in this Glutamine thread; I was not able to workout yesterday because I was just plain burnt. I guess I rushed things from my illness and recovery. I felt strong early in the week, and then “BOZO” decides to break a PR. How foolish can that be? Don’t answer. I know better. I feel much better today, an extra day of rest helped. I read through this whole thread and it makes sense to me, the overtraining, immune deficiency and cortisol, I have to remind myself I’m 41 not 21 but I feel 18! I used to take Glutamine, recommended dosage 5 g a day (powdered form). I felt nothing more from it, so maybe I wasn’t taking enough. I believe from what you all are saying is that if I up my Glutamine to say 20 g a day it should help with recovery and keep the immune in check and hopefully prevent overtraining, at least to a degree. Well I’m going to buy the Glutamine today, and have 20 g a day (5 g at a time). I will also ease off the training and be smart about it. You can’t take away my PR though!!
Manor
I hear ya Manor,
Im 43 and as Clint Eastwood said as the character Dirty Harry in the movie "The Enforcer" ; "Mans got to know his limitations."
Tim
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AllYourStrength
Total Posts: 562
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Manor; It definitely helps. For me, I was able to go from 2-3 days a week of training (TOPS) to 4-5 and more than double the volume. This, after 'years' of trying everything else. So, for me, it has worked wonders. Good luck!
Jon Benson
Nutrition and Fitness Lifecoach
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mongfu
Total Posts: 72
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wow! thank you everybody for all your thoughts and contibutions to this thread! question for jerry....is it as important to make sure your gluatmine is hplc tested as is with your creatine? or will any manufactures product do? i am a distributor for JARROW and i have been using theirs. on the label it says, "produced by biological fermentation and is USP/FCC grade". is this what people should look for in a glutamine product or just fancy talk? thanks.
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AllYourStrength
Total Posts: 562
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Mongfu; I'll let Jerry answer your question, of course, but I think Jarrow is one of the very best in the business. Then again, I'm not a supplement distributor. As for as "HPLC Tested", that's definitely a Jerry B. question. Jon
Jon Benson
Nutrition and Fitness Lifecoach
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Jerry Brainum
Total Posts: 130
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Quote:
mongfu said:
wow! thank you everybody for all your thoughts and contibutions to this thread! question for jerry....is it as important to make sure your gluatmine is hplc tested as is with your creatine? or will any manufactures product do?
i am a distributor for JARROW and i have been using theirs. on the label it says, "produced by biological fermentation and is USP/FCC grade". is this what people should look for in a glutamine product or just fancy talk?
thanks.
If the manufacturer is willing to provide purity information, by all means stick with the high quality products. I haven't heard or seen any reports of toxic elements or lack of potency in relation to glutamine, so I'd assume most name brands are safe. The Jarrow products are excellent quality, and what they refer to is how the product was made, and that it was made under the highest level of goverment standards. In short, it's good! BTW, there is a genuine difference in creatine products. Those made in the USA and Germany show the highest level of purity, along with the no detectable level of contaminents. The same cannot be said for creatine emanting from China.
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Lauren
Total Posts: 580
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Jon told me to come visit your little glutamine soiree here and I am glad I did. The biochemical instruction here is top-notch, with or without th possible confusion regarding glutamine in high doses. Here's what I am seeing, so far in the posts: - many nutritionists and doc are praising glutamine - some resercahers are cautioning its use in large doses - many bodybuilders are seeing good results for recovery purposes - those of us in the wellness filed already know of glutamine's gut-repair prowess, even on a moderate-intake basis I think that one of the best indicators of a supplement's efficiency is the pudding. ie: "the proof is in the . . ." There are many of you (Jon being one) who find that the body utilizes glutamine during stressful times. I myself put a client on glutamine who had a hectic schedule and stomach difficulties - the glutamine eased out the generalized cellular stress and made her feel quite balanced. This discussion may come down to moderation. Jon has suggested a rational supplementation schedule that most people can adhere to . . even smaller doses can suffice, as long as the final concept is understood: that glutamine, when purposefully and wisely consumed, CAN work for reducing physiological stressors (training, wild days, gut difficults) and a good rule of thumb might be not to go hog-wild unless you are prepared to attend the hog. That being said, I'm gonna get ready to train and take some glutamine afterwards ;) "Someone turn off the oven outside, it's not supposed to be on until July", Lauren
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megancrisp
Total Posts: 2
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Can somebody recommend glutamine or another supplement for a remedy of ammonia odor? I've been researching this, and it appears that I'm releasing an ammonia odor when I break down nitrogen. I'm on a 40/40/20 nutrition plan. When I do cardio or get my muscles warmed up, the ammonia smell comes and it permeates the room. I really need to get this repaired soon. I've heard it isn't unhealthy, but I'm really wanting to join a gym, and I'd like to get rid of the problem so I can do it. I've been reading about this for several days, and I'm throughly confused about what to take!
Thank you,
Megan
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ll-j-ll
Total Posts: 1144
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Just to clarify Megan, 40/40/20 is pro/carbs/fat? or pro/fat/carbs? (I'm confused as to wether you are low-carbing or not) It is my understanding that if you are low-carbing this situation can be corrected with some carbs...I've never heard of glutamine as a cure for this. I'm sure some of our great minds will generate something more conclusive for you...[= Welcome, Sis!
"We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, and famous?' Actually, who are you not to be?"
~Marianne Williamson |
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G-MAN
Total Posts: 17
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Jon, Thanks for sharing your real-world results with the rest of us. It explains why I never saw much benefit from taking 5g per day. Two questions: Would you adjust the intake for a HIT routine vs. HVT or a 6-day per week vs.3-day per week routine? Also, based on the information presented here, do you plan on upping your intake to 30g per day? I'm glad your glutamine is almost tasteless, mine tastes a lot like "Elmer's Glue-tamine". Thanks again for the help.
| I can do all things through Him who gives me strength... Philipians 4:13 |
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Caymus
Total Posts: 153
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Jon:
Excellent points made here. I agree 100% with your assertions. As for T-mag, I can't think of a web site with less scientific credibility that that site. Note that they sell products such as "myostatin blockers" worthless junk that is a total ripoff. Most of their line is also high priced garbage. They attack anyone who disagrees with them, and their primary writer, T.C Leuoma (sic) is a self-admitted liar. He is one of those guys that's quite personable when you talk to him in person, but then takes on a rather nasty online persona of being a sarcastic clown. His writing is geared to 14-year-olds with IQs similar to their ages. This is a guy who writes editorials about his love for blow-up sex dolls. Those who want to trust this guy are more than welcome to.
Jon or anyone else - it's been awhile since you wrote this, but re: Biotest, do you think any of their products are worthwhile? I actually enjoy Grow! I think it tastes better than most on the market. But please speak more to their other products such as Mag 10, Tribex (or other Test increasers), etc. Thanks.
| "You may be disappointed if you fail, but you are doomed if you don't try" - Beverly Sills
"Waiting over here, for life to begin" - Pete Yorn |
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megancrisp
Total Posts: 2
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My food plan is 40 pro 40 carbs and 20 fat. I read on Hussman that it was nitrogen breaking it down, and to supplement with amino acids. Here's a paste from the site:
In general, you'll maximize your fat loss if you wait about an hour after your workouts before eating. The exception, in my view, is when you smell ammonia. Ammonia is essentially nitrogen, and that sensation after a workout is a signal that you've raised your cortisol levels enough to trigger the breakdown of amino acids by the liver (gluconeogenesis). When the body needs energy, it metabolizes glycogen, then fat, then protein. If one isn't fast enough, it goes down the list. But if it's going to feed on protein, you want it to go after something other than muscle tissue. So if you smell ammonia, you should have a protein and carbohydrate containing supplement immediately after your workout, preferably along with a protein stimulating supplement such as L-Leucine (whey protein is about 20-25% Leucine).
He says later on to take about 1 gram of L-Leucine right after working out. I read somewhere else to take glutamine for it, but I can't find that now! I'm looking for a way to prevent this from happening, not stop it after it started. If I do this after each workout, will it eventually stop happening?
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