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Display Name Post: A Year to Learn the O-Lifts        (Topic#37775)
Mark Fenner
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Total Posts: 60
09-03-21 11:44 AM - Post#913059    



Dan had some great comments here for an adult learner of the O-Lifts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v279yICrbG8

(There was also another recently about a personal trainer or coach, where DJ talked about the benefits to taking a year to really invest and develop some level of mastery of the OLs.)

It got me thinking: what would a year progression -- spending **plenty** of time with broomsticks and working on flexibility/mobility to *do them right* -- look like.

Of the top, you can easily imagine 4-8 weeks working on the basic low-squat, thoracic, and external rotation/wrist issues. So, then if you literally target a meet 10 months after that, the last two months would probably be movement into a solid, lots of singles/low-reps phase. Then, the question is: what do you do from month 3 to month 10.

8 months, nominally 8 opportunities to focus on *something*. The last of those 8 might be a good time to do Big-21 (I think that is three weeks -- 9 sessions program -- off the top of my head). Down to 7 months. The first two months (of the middle 8) might be focused purely on snatch (hinted at by Dan in the video). Down to 5 months. Add two months of similar focus on clean and jerk. Down to 3 months. And those three could be just a nice version of the Easy Strenght Oly + Fat Loss that DJ kindly posted recently for us.

Month - Focus
1-2 - Basic positional mobility
3-4 - Snatch
5-6 - C&J (Sn maintenance)
7-9 - DJ Easy Strength Oly+FatLoss
10 - Big-21 plus recovery week
11-12 - Competition Prep

Dan has some related blog posts (plus the stuff in the Contrarian Approach to Discus and some of the old videos):
http://danjohn.net/2009/11/olympic-lifti ng-for-the-master-athlete /
http://danjohn.net/beginners/

Thoughts?

Best,
Mark

Edited by Mark Fenner on 09-03-21 02:00 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
Ville
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Total Posts: 2770
Re: A Year to Learn the O-Lifts
09-03-21 12:23 PM - Post#913060    



I'm not Dan obviously, and I haven't watched the first youtube video.

I'm 48 now, I started learning the lifts by myself in my early 30s. If I would do it all over again, I would find a coach. It was very difficult to find one where I lived, nobody did the lifts at the gym where I went to. I only found out years later a man who actually competed in Olympics and Commonwealth Games who could have helped. Some years later I did do a BWLA weekend course and also met Dan in Dublin shortly after.

It really depends on the coach how they'd approach teaching the lifts. Some might spend a lot of time on mobility, working with PVC, etc. Some might dive straight in to learning to squat properly and do partial Olympic lifts first (top down or bottom up).

If you have no coach, then I would probably still do what I did: Read a lot of books, watch videos and just try to learn them by yourself. Film your lifts and try to figure out what is going wrong. I don't think they are impossible to learn on your own, the only limiting factor for me is/was leg strength. I could Clean quite close to what I was Front Squatting. After you have some tolerable technique you have to get stronger, and for some people (like me), that doesn't come easily. Various injuries as your body adjusts, but nothing too serious. After many years, I got over the obsession and now I just lift for fun.

I've always liked Dave Turner's Hercules Barbell Club beginners program. I think it's worth trying to learn the lifts from the start. You would develop necessary flexibility as well with an empty barbell. Dan has a couple of versions of that program, there are some old threads on the forum if you search for it.

Problem in using just a broomstick or PVC for month(s) is that you won't really hit the right positions because it is so light. You can get away with a lot even with an empty barbell. The trouble starts when the weights get heavier, but that's a given.

Hope that helps.
My workout log


 
Mark Fenner
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Total Posts: 60
Re: A Year to Learn the O-Lifts
09-03-21 01:59 PM - Post#913068    



Lots of great points Ville. I'll just summarize two super important take aways (I hope I don't misconstrue anything you said):

1. Coach. Yes, invaluable. Hard to find good ones (just like in martial arts), particularly in rural areas.

2. Problem with PVC/broomsticks and hitting the real positions. Dan has also hinted at this when he has talked about getting weight on the bar (particularly with OHS, I think), really helps to get you into a proper position.

There's a happy balance in there somewhere: getting a clean enough foundation that dysfunction from years of fighting gravity, sitting, injuries, etc. doesn't make your "low entropy" position one that is also breaking you --balanced with-- using the weights to teach your body the right position. [Chapter VII, Verse 5 of the Book of Dan John: Resist the temptation for either/or-ness.]

My proposal of 2 months was really just leaning towards caution and "first do no harm". In reality, I'd imagine using lightest possible weights with best possible form in that time frame (as well as kettlebells, broomstick/PVC, etc.).

Thanks for your thoughts!

Best,
Mark
 
Kyle Aaron
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Total Posts: 1911
09-04-21 04:54 AM - Post#913094    



A year at two workouts a week is 104 workouts, assuming you have two weeks off somewhere.

If you do 100 sessions straight in a year I don't think it matters a lot exactly how you structure things, you'll get better.
Athletic Club East
Strength in numbers


 
Dan John
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Total Posts: 12292
09-04-21 05:28 PM - Post#913103    



This is money...great thread. I will happily repost anything anyone needs here.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
Taranenko74
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Total Posts: 84
09-05-21 05:52 AM - Post#913116    



As a semi-pro WL-coach, my 2, probably 5 cents:

Prepare for a 3 year rule. Normally it takes 3 years to learn the lifts when we start from the scratch, providing that one gets around 3000 GOOD reps per year - for both lifts ofc. Say you get 50 sn and 50 cnj per week for a 48 weeks that is 2400 reps per year; that'll almost take you there. I said GOOD lifts and I mean that, sluggish or missed reps are not counted. So that's the base.

So that being said, forget the programming at early stage. Focus to get GOOD reps. Do them often, do them focused, truly learn the lifts. As an adult, maintain your max strength. Toss in some heavyish squats and pulls but don't let them disturb your WL-training.

First of all, get the coach if possible. That just makes things easier.

Good Luck!
 
pink.pixie
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Total Posts: 5576
A Year to Learn the O-Lifts
09-11-21 09:33 AM - Post#913260    



For me finding a coach IRL (he actually just appeared from nowhere) was the necessary start.

Both his keen eye and video feed back was helpful but also his willingness to find solutions in case I could not embrace the technique fully to begin with.

The important thing was his own dedication/interest in the sport and the trainees. That is life changing. Don't expect the impossible but plan and aim for miracles. It is a question of balance (as with anything).

I participated first in an open introductory group (which was very mixed both in age and abilities). Different people came each week and that was good because I also saw what others did (right or wrong) and learned from it. He explained, demonstrated and then we had to dive in, one person at a time so that you could hear him coaching the others and learn from it. That worked well. During the week we practiced on our own.

Later I had a few individual sessions focusing on my own specific kinks. If I couldn't do what he expected me to, he would adapt the approach one way or another until I got stronger and could execute correctly. Meanwhile I worked on mobility on my own (it was obvious where the weaknesses were), you just have to do it in paralell with lifting.

Unfortunately, after a few months the coach quit cold turkey (after a dispute with the gym owner) and I was on my own- but able to continue.

After a couple of months I checked my technique with a PT (ph. therapist) that I knew was also lifting. Totally I've got FB from three individuals IRL to start with. All info was useful. How did I know? I improved and I thought it was fun. Some lifts were more difficult than others but at least I didn't acquire bad habits that would be difficult to loose later on.

What you can't do easily is always difficult. The challenges appeared- weaknesses and imbalances- but with that the means also followed: mobility, yoga , different types of training.It all has to go hand in hand.

I agree with what others said, you need to lift. Keep it simple enough.

I wanted to learn a correct technique. It was important to me. My experience is- as Ville already mentioned earlier is that you need the load and 'done lifts'. A stick is not enough itself. Mobility is a necessary routine work along with lifting. It is not a purely linear process, it all works synergistically.

If it bites you and you have a clear goal you will find the means and overcome many hindrances.The more you learn the more easily you can discern what kind of help you need.

If somebody teaches swimming by throwing you into the pool at the deep end you might survive by doing nothing because you will at least float.

There is one important thing I learned: to know when too much is too much before I hurt myself and when not enough it just too little and one needs to label it laziness or procrastination or fear(hesitation).

Good luck.
Sound practical advice in the posts above, methinks.
Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.


 
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