Jort Kramer
Total Posts: 566
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02-02-21 10:01 AM - Post#907400
Hi all,
At the moment im doing a simple program lifting 3 days a week in an ABA / BAB setup.
Workout A
- 1 arm push press: 2x (2-3-5)/(3-5-8)
- Power clean from blocks: 5-8 doubles
- Pull ups: 3x 8-10
Workout B
- Snatch from blocks: 5-8 triples
- Front Squat: 3x 5-8 reps
I would like to add some loaded carries that would give me a benefit that im not already getting from the lifts. In Dan John's "my favorite program of all time" he calls it conditioning work and uses the sled a lot (which I dont have/can't use at the moment).
Maybe combining carries like (farmers walk, bottom up carries, rack holds etc with planks, swings, push ups etc for a conditioning effect?
Your input/ideas are greatly appreciated.
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Mr. Kent
Total Posts: 583
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02-02-21 10:26 AM - Post#907402
I've been adding carries into my programming for a few months now (see my log for details), and have found them to be tremendously beneficial. I've primarily added them in between sets of lifts. I've come to be of two minds when it comes to carries: you can either use a carry to compliment the lift or you can do the opposite and use a carry which works opposite muscle groups. Now, since most carries utilize the entire body it's a bit difficult to parse out one that's exactly opposite to a lift, but an example of what I'm trying to explain is using a waiter's walk either directly before or after a press would be an example of a complimentary carry since the entire shoulder is directly active in a waiter's walk (a single side rack carry would also fit this description of being complimentary to a press). To contrast this, a suitcase carry doesn't tax the should girdle as directly, so using that after a press would give the shoulder more of a break.
If I were using your exercise selections I'd probably go with an 'opposite' approach. For example, since your pressing uses a bit higher volume per set I'd go with a suitcase carry (either single or double) to give the shoulders more of a break in between pressing sets. And on your pulling movements (the Oly lifts and pull-ups) I'd try either: bear-hug/zercher carry, waiter walk, or single side rack carries to give the posterior chain a bit of break. Especially since I'm guessing you'll be going heavier on the doubles and triples in cleans and snatches. And following the front squat pretty much anything would work, but I personally like the bottoms-up carry. It does tax the forearm and the shoulder is in a rack position, but the area I feel it most is my abdominal wall/core/obliques. I can really feel the connection between upper and lower body when I do these, so following front squat would really reinforce the bracing that's needed.
Anyhow, you can certainly add carries in at the end as a separate movement, but I've found that doing them in between lifts really seems to add value. And for what it's worth I've come to find that a 'less is more' approach is advisable. For example, I can do a single side suitcase carry with a 32kg kb, but it definitely pulls me to one side and using a 24kg bell seems to work better for me as I can almost brace harder since I'm not struggling to say upright. I guess it's almost an 'easy strength' philosophy in that I always err on going a touch lighter to keep good form (well, posture in the case of carries).
As always, this is just one man's experience.
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vegpedlr
Total Posts: 1179
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02-02-21 11:55 AM - Post#907406
I like to do them at the end Nd just wing it. If I’m feeling fresh, I do a bit more. More weight, more volume, or more variety in the carries. If I feel done for the day, I do a couple moderate farmers or a light Cook drill. Nowadays I do suitcase carries in between sets of swings or rounds of the DMPM.
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DanMartin
Total Posts: 20705
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Lately I've been doing a swing/farmer's walk workout twice a week. I've had to split up the DMPM. I was having a hard time with my pecs cramping during my swings so I split the DMPM into two workouts.
A.
Swings
Farmer's Walk
B.
Goblet Squat
Push-Up
TRX Row
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iPood
Total Posts: 2360
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Lately I've been doing a swing/farmer's walk workout twice a week. I've had to split up the DMPM. I was having a hard time with my pecs cramping during my swings so I split the DMPM into two workouts.
A.
Swings
Farmer's Walk
B.
Goblet Squat
Push-Up
TRX Row
If you just added some form of crawling at the end of the A day, it would be the Ultimate DMPM.
In my case, I would do the 3Cs workout: cleans, carries and crawling.
"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness
and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums.
It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable.
Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow.
Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't."
Dan Martin |
Edited by iPood on 02-03-21 05:00 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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DanMartin
Total Posts: 20705
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Lately I've been doing a swing/farmer's walk workout twice a week. I've had to split up the DMPM. I was having a hard time with my pecs cramping during my swings so I split the DMPM into two workouts.
A.
Swings
Farmer's Walk
B.
Goblet Squat
Push-Up
TRX Row
If you just added some form of crawling at the end of the A day, it would be the Ultimate DMPM.
In my case, I would do the 3Cs workout: cleans, carries and crawling.
That's a good idea. My side project within this iteration is simply to incorporate some kettlebell slingshots and halos into the mix. Along with some one kettlebell thrusters. (Don't read anything in to that. I'm always on the lookout for a "finisher" that is not a total recovery destroyer.)
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iPood
Total Posts: 2360
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That's a good idea. My side project within this iteration is simply to incorporate some kettlebell slingshots and halos into the mix. Along with some one kettlebell thrusters. (Don't read anything in to that. I'm always on the lookout for a "finisher" that is not a total recovery destroyer.)
There should be a DMPM e-book. It’s not the first time I said it and it won’t definitely be the last. 
"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness
and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums.
It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable.
Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow.
Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't."
Dan Martin |
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Jordan D
Total Posts: 771
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That's a good idea. My side project within this iteration is simply to incorporate some kettlebell slingshots and halos into the mix. Along with some one kettlebell thrusters. (Don't read anything in to that. I'm always on the lookout for a "finisher" that is not a total recovery destroyer.)
There should be a DMPM e-book. It’s not the first time I said it and it won’t definitely be the last.
+1 to this. +2 if I’m allowed both hands.
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WxHerk
Total Posts: 334
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That's a good idea. My side project within this iteration is simply to incorporate some kettlebell slingshots and halos into the mix. Along with some one kettlebell thrusters. (Don't read anything in to that. I'm always on the lookout for a "finisher" that is not a total recovery destroyer.)
There should be a DMPM e-book. It’s not the first time I said it and it won’t definitely be the last.
+1 to this. +2 if I’m allowed both hands.
+4 if you're holding up both of mine.
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Jort Kramer
Total Posts: 566
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02-04-21 04:03 AM - Post#907485
I've been adding carries into my programming for a few months now (see my log for details), and have found them to be tremendously beneficial. I've primarily added them in between sets of lifts. I've come to be of two minds when it comes to carries: you can either use a carry to compliment the lift or you can do the opposite and use a carry which works opposite muscle groups. Now, since most carries utilize the entire body it's a bit difficult to parse out one that's exactly opposite to a lift, but an example of what I'm trying to explain is using a waiter's walk either directly before or after a press would be an example of a complimentary carry since the entire shoulder is directly active in a waiter's walk (a single side rack carry would also fit this description of being complimentary to a press). To contrast this, a suitcase carry doesn't tax the should girdle as directly, so using that after a press would give the shoulder more of a break.
If I were using your exercise selections I'd probably go with an 'opposite' approach. For example, since your pressing uses a bit higher volume per set I'd go with a suitcase carry (either single or double) to give the shoulders more of a break in between pressing sets. And on your pulling movements (the Oly lifts and pull-ups) I'd try either: bear-hug/zercher carry, waiter walk, or single side rack carries to give the posterior chain a bit of break. Especially since I'm guessing you'll be going heavier on the doubles and triples in cleans and snatches. And following the front squat pretty much anything would work, but I personally like the bottoms-up carry. It does tax the forearm and the shoulder is in a rack position, but the area I feel it most is my abdominal wall/core/obliques. I can really feel the connection between upper and lower body when I do these, so following front squat would really reinforce the bracing that's needed.
Anyhow, you can certainly add carries in at the end as a separate movement, but I've found that doing them in between lifts really seems to add value. And for what it's worth I've come to find that a 'less is more' approach is advisable. For example, I can do a single side suitcase carry with a 32kg kb, but it definitely pulls me to one side and using a 24kg bell seems to work better for me as I can almost brace harder since I'm not struggling to say upright. I guess it's almost an 'easy strength' philosophy in that I always err on going a touch lighter to keep good form (well, posture in the case of carries).
As always, this is just one man's experience.
This is an interesting idea. Combining carries with an explosive/strength movement is a nice way to jack up the Conditioning
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BrianBinVA
Total Posts: 5140
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02-04-21 08:20 AM - Post#907490
I don't see any need to overthink this, unless you want to compete in strongman, which has specific competition carry events you would need to train for. If there is a benefit to carries, IMO, it is in just doing "some" vs "none", so just work them in however and whenever you can.
Personally, my preference is to use carries as a warmup, in the form of the "Cook drill" (from Gray Cook) -- just carry a KB in the waiter position either until you lose integrity or (in my case) for a certain number of steps. Then move to rack and do the same thing, suitcase same thing, then switch hands. The other favorite option for me was just to do one set of farmers either to failure or for a certain number of steps as a finisher.
It's not rocket surgery...
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Chris Rice
Total Posts: 702
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02-04-21 09:01 AM - Post#907493
I usually think of carries as my finisher. It's 72 yards from my gym door around my house and back to the door. I do a different carry each workout - farmers, one hand farmers, bearhug with a stone, one hand overhead, KB rack position hold, etc etc. I use either blue or orange fat grips on DBs for my farmers much of the time - only rarely doing "heavy" farmers. It's 13 degrees outside right now - I think today's workout will stay inside hehe.
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DanMartin
Total Posts: 20705
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That's a good idea. My side project within this iteration is simply to incorporate some kettlebell slingshots and halos into the mix. Along with some one kettlebell thrusters. (Don't read anything in to that. I'm always on the lookout for a "finisher" that is not a total recovery destroyer.)
There should be a DMPM e-book. It’s not the first time I said it and it won’t definitely be the last.
If I was to do an e-book it would be a one-off sort of thing and any money generated would go to my favorite charity No Kid Hungry. But I digress. As an aside, during my quest for the Holy Grail of DMPM perfection I've been working on my "Warm-Up." Nothing earth shaking to be sure, but I can't get Bill Starr's mantra out of my mind which he nicked from the longtime York trainer Smitty, "if you don't have time to warm-up, you don't have time to train."
So here it is: 5 - 10 minutes on the Echo Bike, then the Stoney Stretch, Brettzel, Kettlebell Halo and Slingshot. All of my so-called hot spots are addressed. The Halo in particular seems to be doing a lot of good. Start light.
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Ricky01
Total Posts: 709
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Lately I've been doing a swing/farmer's walk workout twice a week. I've had to split up the DMPM. I was having a hard time with my pecs cramping during my swings so I split the DMPM into two workouts.
A.
Swings
Farmer's Walk
B.
Goblet Squat
Push-Up
TRX Row
If you just added some form of crawling at the end of the A day, it would be the Ultimate DMPM.
In my case, I would do the 3Cs workout: cleans, carries and crawling.
Ipood - I used a 3C's programme for a year with a junior rugby team I coached:
Core
Crawls
Carries
Now we know it all overlaps....but Core was more bracing movements eg plank variations as well as gait pattern core work (dead bugs, Bird dogs etc).
Crawls and carries are fairly self explanatory.
Regardless of their skill levels in any given match they never came up against a team that could out work them from the first minute to the last.
Richard
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iPood
Total Posts: 2360
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Ipood - I used a 3C's programme for a year with a junior rugby team I coached:
Core
Crawls
Carries
Now we know it all overlaps....but Core was more bracing movements eg plank variations as well as gait pattern core work (dead bugs, Bird dogs etc).
Crawls and carries are fairly self explanatory.
Regardless of their skill levels in any given match they never came up against a team that could out work them from the first minute to the last.
Richard
Whom do you think I shamelessly stole the idea from? 
"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness
and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums.
It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable.
Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow.
Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't."
Dan Martin |
|
Ricky01
Total Posts: 709
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Ipood - I used a 3C's programme for a year with a junior rugby team I coached:
Core
Crawls
Carries
Now we know it all overlaps....but Core was more bracing movements eg plank variations as well as gait pattern core work (dead bugs, Bird dogs etc).
Crawls and carries are fairly self explanatory.
Regardless of their skill levels in any given match they never came up against a team that could out work them from the first minute to the last.
Richard
Whom do you think I shamelessly stole the idea from?
Haha, you flatter me.
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