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Display Name Post: I can use a favor...        (Topic#37257)
Dan John
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Total Posts: 12292
05-29-20 01:32 PM - Post#898602    



I'm trying to type up my Post Deployment program. Can a few of you read this over and look for lack of clarity?

The Post Deployment Program

I work with a lot of people who get deployed into combat and come back tired and, sometimes, a bit broken. When they log on to the internet, they are bombarded with ads for working harder and longer. What they need is some “mild.” They need some mobility, they need some body composition work, they need time to put themselves back together.

With some great volunteers, and I have to thank George and Andrew for all the feedback and insights, I came up with a fairly simple program. It’s the basics:

Push
Pull
Hinge
Squat
Loaded Carries

It’s also a mix of Tim Anderson’s Original Strength. And, it has evolved into something that surprises literally everyone who tries it: it’s easy, but it’s hard. It’s simple, but it works. Let’s look at it.

At the end of three months, I hope for some modest goals. Here you go:

Goals for the Program (In Month Three)
Squat bodyweight for 25 reps
Do 4 “Hang for 30 seconds then Pull Up”
Rack DL Double Bodyweight
Press “more” in the Half Kneeling One Arm Press

I chose these specifically for not only a good (not the bestest possible improvement in the history of training) and manageable set of goals. If you can squat your bodyweight for 25, I’m guessing you have some strength and mobility and some muscle mass.

Hanging for thirty seconds is great for the grip, miraculously improves shoulders and gives us that nice “pop” that we call the Poor Man’s Chiropractor in my gym. Doing a pull up after the hang is tough. Doing that combo four times takes some training.

About three months of training.

The Rack DL goal is a safe way to test overall body strength as well as a great test for the grip. Moreover, even tender backs seems to like the nearly pure hinge of the movement.

The Half Kneeling Press demands that the hip flexors are stretched, the pelvis and the rib box are in line and the shoulders are powerful. This is my answer to that dumb question, “If you could only do one lift, what would it be?”

Each lift with have THREE parts.

Push
Prone Neck Nod
KB Waiter Walk
Lift (Half Kneeling Press)

Pull
Prone “Find Your Shoes”
KB Single Side Rack Walk: Down and Back
Lift (Hanging Pull Up)

Hinge
Six Point Nods
KB Suitcase Carry: Down and Back
Lift (Rack Deadlift: Bar set at one inch above the knee first time you go through the three-month program. Next time, try one inch below the knee.)

Squat
Six Point Rock
Hip Flexor Stretch
Lift
Squat Options
Back first three months no matter what.
Front
Overhead
Depth (Go deeper)
Pause (EACH rep!!!)
Remedial: Goblet


Loaded Carry
Bear Crawl
CrossCrawls
The Carry: Whichever thing you are doing that day! Farmer Walks, Bear Hugs, Juggernauts.

So, if doing three sets of eight:

Prone Neck Nod
Waiter Walk
Press 20 kilos x 8

Prone Neck Nod
Waiter Walk
Press 20 kilos x 8

Prone Neck Nod
Waiter Walk
Press 20 kilos x 8
The Waiter Walk is 20 kilos or so…maybe 20 meters each arm. It’s just to make sure everything is tying up.

Tim Anderson materials
Thank you, Tim. Your contributions to the world of fitness are vastly underappreciated. You make a difference in this world.
Prone Neck Nods





• Lie on your belly
• Prop up on your elbows
• Leading with your eyes, look up and nod your head up
• Look down and nod your head down

Find Your Shoes





• Lie on your belly
• Prop up on your elbows
• Leading with your eyes, look left and rotate your head to the left
• Look right and rotate your head to the right
• Try to find your shoes

6-Point Nods






• Get on your hands and knees
• Keep a tall sternum (flat gorilla back)
• Leading with your eyes, look up and nod your head up
• Look down and nod your head down



6-Point Rocking
• Get on your hands and knees
• Keep a tall sternum (flat gorilla back)
• Keep your head UP on the horizon
• Rock back and forth as far as you can without losing your tall sternum and without dropping your head

Grizzly Bear Crawl
• Crawl on your hands and feet
• Keep your head up on the horizon
• Keep a tall sternum (flat gorilla back)
• KEEP your butt DOWN below your head – back level with the ground
• Move opposite limbs together

Cross-Crawl
• Stand tall
• Touch your opposite elbow to your opposite knee
• Alternate back and forth between sides
• If you cannot touch elbow to knee without bending over, touch opposite hand to thigh





The following information, on sets and reps, will give you an idea on how the program ramps up monthly. Week One is always fairly short, but the reps (one set) are very high. As we go through the month, the sets increase and reps decrease. You will be doing the OS moves and specific carries on each and every set. Week Four is going to be a lot of Original Strength and Carries.

Then, we back off to one set again. I thank Josh Hillis for this great insight for simple programming: One set on week one, two on two, three on three and four on four. So simple, but so effective.

Sets and Reps
Week One
1 x 25

Week Two
2 x 15

Week Three
3 x 8

Week Four
4 x 5

Three Day a week loads:
Real light, a bit more, and a challenge


Load Recommendations
Press
With the Press, the devil is in the details. I want you to do half-kneeling presses with:
Left Knee Down-Left Hand Press
Right Knee Down-Right Hand Press
This will also give the Hip Flexors a nice stretch and teach the pelvis to stay “under” the rib cage. Remember, Week One is 25 reps, so you need to start light. The example here is for a male who wanted to press the 28-kilo kettlebell.
Note: Typically, Wednsday’s load becomes next Monday’s load and Friday’s load become Wednesday. Also, notice that the jumps in load are very small (two kilos…five pounds).




Pull
Some wonderful research from Hawaii and the experiences of improving some people’s pullups from simply hanging, I am recommending something very simple.
Month One: All straight arm hangs for time.
Month Two: All flexed arm hangs for time.
Month Three: Hang (straight arm) followed by single pullups..until test day

On Week One, Day One establish a repeatable base of one single hang for time. Don’t overdo it. Try to extend it on Days Two and Three. Week Two, Day One, try to match last Day Three’s time in the TWO sets (easy day). Strive to increase this the two next days…beat that total on Monday in three sets…and continue. Ideally, on Week Four, Day Three you will comfortably beat your base time on Week One easily on all four sets.

Next Month, repeat with flexed arm hang. This will be much more difficult.

Month Three: “Practice” the test. 30 seconds hang, ONE pullup. Try to build up to two reps that are “easy.”

Squat
Here. If you weight 135 or under use the 135 goal, 136-165, use the 165 goal. If you are 166-185, use the 185 goal. From 186-205, use either 185 or 225, everyone heavier just use 225.





Rack Deadlift
Place the bar either in a rack or on boxes (or whatever) so the bar is one inch above knee height.

Stretch the hammies and “hinge” each and every lift. Finish in a Vertical Plank. I would suggest going “crazy light” on the Rack DLs each week with the single set of 25, sneaking up to bodyweight on the two sets of 15. You can certainly choose to go heavier, but I don’t suggest pushing it during this exercise for these three months.

Yes, that’s vague. Oddly, these high rep hinges can cause a LOT of soreness and maybe even twinge the back if you have some poor technical reps. So…don’t “go there.”

Remember to match the Day Two/Day Three loads on next week’s Day One/Day Two. In month one, don’t ever really push this lift.

That was excellent advice when I first put this program out. A couple of people misunderstood this and simply used the squat program numbers for the Rack DL. In Month Three, in every case, they felt good one day and “maxed” out. Everyone experimenter easily pulled the double bodyweight lift.

Well, what do I know? It works and it’s simple and it’s logical. If you don’t like thinking about load and just want to train, do this: use the squat numbers on the deadlifts.

Loaded Carries
Make up something new and different every workout and just enjoy pushing, dragging and carrying. (That is all!)

One additional thing I mention during the talk and this is important. Now, I’m no expert but this is the very good advice I have “stolen” from the other presenters:

Repairing your “Hormonal Cascade”
Get up at dawn and walk.
Go to bed no more than two hours after it is dark.
Sleep in the darkest room you can manage.
You have to have hormones to sleep/love.
You need People in your life!!!
Sleep with human contact or your dog…


Sample Workout
Month Two. Week Two. Day Three
180-pound male. Using the KB numbers from the chart for one armed presses, Rack DL and Squat from the Squat chart (for 185 pounders).

Push
First Set
Prone Neck Nod
KB Waiter Walk (“Down and Back” with 20 K Bell)
Lift (Half Kneeling Press)
15 Reps Left Hand (Left Knee Down) with 20 K Bell
15 Reps Right Hand (Right Knee Down) with 20 K Bell

Second Set
Prone Neck Nod
KB Waiter Walk (“Down and Back” with 20 K Bell)
Lift (Half Kneeling Press)
15 Reps Left Hand (Left Knee Down) with 20 K Bell
15 Reps Right Hand (Right Knee Down) with 20 K Bell


Pull
First Set
Prone “Find Your Shoes”
KB Single Side Rack Walk: Down and Back (20 K bell)
Lift (Hanging Pull Up)
Today, go for a limit Flexed arm hang. (Be sure to note the time)

Second Set
Prone “Find Your Shoes”
KB Single Side Rack Walk: Down and Back (20 K bell)
If you wish, do another round of Flexed arm hang ease off far before failure.


Hinge
First Set
Six Point Nods
KB Suitcase Carry: Down and Back (20 K bell)
Rack Deadlift
185 x 15 reps

Second Set
Six Point Nods
KB Suitcase Carry: Down and Back (20 K bell)
Rack Deadlift
185 x 15 reps


Squat
Six Point Rock
Hip Flexor Stretch
Back Squat
185 x 15 reps

Six Point Rock
Hip Flexor Stretch
Back Squat
185 x 15 reps



Loaded Carry
First Set
All for thirty meters/yards
Bear Crawl
CrossCrawls
Farmer Walks with 20 K bells in both hands

Second Set
All for thirty meters/yards
Bear Crawl
CrossCrawls
Farmer Walks with 20 K bells in both hands

This looks like a lot on paper, but once you get the hang of combining Original Strength with all the additional carries (there’s a LOT of carrying in the program), you will see your work capacity “swell.”

And that’s, well, swell.

Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
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05-29-20 01:50 PM - Post#898603    



I know the answer probably is "it depends" but I think rest periods could be mentioned. They don't have to be exact, but a word or two would be nice.

When I see a program I want to know (in importance order):
goals of the program
rules for progression
sets and reps
rest periods
starting weight

You can often tell the later parts by the former, but it feels more complete with all pieces in place.

The program above has more or less everything important on the list, which is very nice.

The first time I read through I got confused since the first example was 3x8 but then week 1 was 1x25, but I then saw that you wrote "so, if doing...". You often miss the if.
 
iPood
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Total Posts: 2360
I can use a favor...
05-29-20 01:52 PM - Post#898604    



I just read it and it's all perfectly clear.

The only thing some people might find difficult to process is the broad suggestions regarding the loaded carries. Not that it's not clear, but it's the only bit that makes you actually think instead of just following directions.

But, since you are supposed to explore the movement and make it as varied and interesting as possible, I think that's just perfect.

I didn't even mention rest periods because in all these years following you, I remember only two possible options:

- One minute.

- As long as I need, but not as long as I would like.

And those are fine too.

Just my two cents.
"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness
and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums.
It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable.
Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow.
Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't."

Dan Martin




Edited by iPood on 05-29-20 01:58 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
Dan John
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Total Posts: 12292
05-29-20 04:30 PM - Post#898607    



Rest periods.

My "Waterloo!"

Thank you.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
Dan John
*
Total Posts: 12292
05-29-20 04:48 PM - Post#898609    



Rest Periods

Save for Loaded Carries, the OS movements (nods, find your shoes and rocks) are the “rest periods.” Allow them to calm you down. I have discovered that 30 seconds of OS (like in 30/30 variations) is a shockingly long time to do these movements. So, we experimented up to two minutes for these…and you feel good.

If you can get two other people to do this with you, the Loaded Carries triad should be done basically without stopping. The Bear Crawls are horrific, by the way. Just keeping going, as best you can: one person Cross Crawls, another carries and the third does Bear Crawls.

Overall, rest as you need. What’s nice is that you will find that you “ease” into conditioning here with only one round on week one, two on two and so forth. Week One workouts tend to go VERY fast in months two and three…even with the tough squat sets.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
AusDaz
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Total Posts: 3611
05-29-20 07:16 PM - Post#898612    



Fantastic.

There’s a couple of books in these two concepts:
1. “Three Day a week loads: Real light, a bit more, and a challenge.” (Ooh, that’s like Delorme across days...)
2. “Overall, rest as you need.“

They’re going straight into my book of stolen bits of training wisdom (right after DDDS! - Don’t Do Dumb Stuff!).

Typos here:
“Note: Typically, Wednsday’s load becomes next Monday’s load and Friday’s load become Wednesday. Also, notice that the jumps in load are very small (two kilos…five pounds)”

And here: “ Squat
Here. If you weight 135 or under use the 135 goal, 136-165, use the 165 goal.“
 
North
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Total Posts: 34
05-30-20 12:46 AM - Post#898616    



“Sample Workout
Month Two. Week Two. Day Three
180-pound male. Using the KB numbers from the chart for one armed presses, Rack DL and Squat from the Squat chart (for 185 pounders).”

There’s a reference to a chart. Is the chart part of the books/article?
 
Kyle Aaron
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Total Posts: 1911
05-30-20 04:42 AM - Post#898618    



I heard a rumour that post-deployment the usual drill is, "sign your kit back into stores, then go to the pub for your two weeks' leave."
Athletic Club East
Strength in numbers


 
JDII
*
Total Posts: 7319
05-30-20 08:05 AM - Post#898621    



I guess it depends, every time I came back all I wanted to sleep, lol. But for the most part it looks like something that’s doable but maybe make some KB work interchangeable with DBs. KBs aren’t as common or available to the returnees as DBs are. For myself and most of the troops I was deployed with I would suggest shoulder, knee and back stretches/warmups a bit more. Every single person I know that’s ever been deployed has issues with one or all three of those (I fall into the all 3 category, haaa). Just my 2 cents, which actually are probably less than that.
 
Dan John
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Total Posts: 12292
05-30-20 12:06 PM - Post#898625    



The pics and charts

   Attachment

Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
Dan John
*
Total Posts: 12292
05-30-20 12:07 PM - Post#898626    



Thank you all. Typos corrected.

As for the mobility and stretching, that's something I would expect "on their own." It's oddly helpful (the program) in helping the guys moderate training and the return.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
Adam S
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Total Posts: 629
05-30-20 02:07 PM - Post#898627    



Another possible typo: "Each lift with have THREE parts." Shouldn't "with" be "will"? Candidly, even if "will" is right, I am not sure what that means in context. Are the things you list really "parts" of a lift? To take the pull example, I don't understand how prone neck nod and KB waiter walk are "parts" of a "lift." Do you mean each movement pattern will consist of a triset or of three distinct exercises? Unless people are super familiar with the Dan John Way, I suspect that military folks may not understand what you mean there.
Why are you squatting in the curl rack?


 
Dan John
*
Total Posts: 12292
05-30-20 05:26 PM - Post#898634    



Got it, thank you.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
Steve Rogers
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Total Posts: 6158
05-30-20 10:39 PM - Post#898639    



I like it and think I should probably give it a go. It's clear enough though the initial overview is hindered for me by my not remembering what "find your shoes" meant. When I got to the explanation later I remembered it from Tim's material and kicked myself. Maybe incorporate some explanation in the overview.
"Coyote is always waiting, and Coyote is always hungry."


 
Dan John
*
Total Posts: 12292
05-31-20 11:03 AM - Post#898647    



I have all the pictures and information in the actual document, but thank you.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
Steve Rogers
*
Total Posts: 6158
05-31-20 12:26 PM - Post#898650    



An additional bit of clarification. Where to measure from for the rack deadlifts, top, middle, bottom of the kneecap?
"Coyote is always waiting, and Coyote is always hungry."


 
Dan John
*
Total Posts: 12292
05-31-20 12:48 PM - Post#898652    



The problem, Steve, is that you can't really get the bar "there." Racks might have five inch jumps, my pads are two inches...so "around" is all I can say honestly.

It's the Goldilock's thing. "Just right" is hard to explain here. So: try this yourself. Unless you have a really expensive rack with lots of positions, it's going to be vague.

All I want is for you to start in the deep hinge. Whatever height that is for you is the key. Some, by the way, with long arms have to go below the knee...
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
Mr. Kent
*
Total Posts: 583
10-14-20 11:39 AM - Post#903497    



I've decided to take a stab at this and have a question about the bar hang. When hanging in month 1 should the shoulders be 'packed' with tension through the lats? Or is the hang more of a dead hang with the back musculature loose?
my training log: What Mr. Kent is Doing Now


 
Dan John
*
Total Posts: 12292
10-14-20 01:53 PM - Post#903505    



People have been doing both. I personally don't see much of a difference either way.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
tigheguy
*
Total Posts: 43
10-18-20 07:48 AM - Post#903652    



This looks amazing Dan, thank you for sharing. Will this ever go into a book or in Dan John University?
 
tigheguy
*
Total Posts: 43
10-18-20 08:45 AM - Post#903659    



Sorry for my last question, I got attempts last week and after I posted my question I was reading it this AM and saw the program in there!
 
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