Jordan Derksen
Total Posts: 392
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05-25-20 10:58 AM - Post#898468
I worked with kettlebells only for a few months earlier this year. It was the first time I really took a break from the bar. I followed ROP for a while and then did an easy strength approach with one arm kettlebell presses.
Recently I've taken to working in some olympic lifts again now that my shop isn't frozen. I quickly noted how different the overhead positions felt. My back was significantly more engaged than I've ever felt it before during the lifts. In the overhead position I stopped shrugging my shoulders up (armpits to ears, thanks crossfit) and instead kept my shoulders down away from my ears as a carryover from the kettlebell presses. Pavel really stresses this position so I trained them that way.
What a difference! The weights have been light, as light as warmup weights would have been for me previously. But the goal is to really drill in this new position and let the structural changes happen to dial in my form. I just can't believe how stable it feels to have really activated shoulders and back. My jerk always lagged quite a bit behind my clean; maybe this will be the fix I had always wanted.
It definitely does feel like things are stretching in this new position. My shoulders are all kinds of tight in this shoulders down activated position.
After I read a small forum post from Geoff Neupert at strongfirst he recommended watching some top olympic lifters so I did. I paid attention to their shoulders and they definitely adopt this shoulders down head neutral position. Except some of the chinese shrug up and the head comes forward. But they seem to be an exception to many rules.
This idea of exploring and focusing on different lifts really changes things. Instead of keeping some one arm presses as a background assistance exercise for a 'bigger' move, making them a focus for a few months exposed some weaknesses and caused some changes I would not have known to change before.
Thanks to Dan and his ideas - and definitely Pavel to some extent as well - for releasing me from the 'big' movements to go explore other territory.
As an aside as well from another thread, I've never done my time on the incline bench. Definitely interested to prioritize that movement sometime this year after what I have read. At the end of last year I finally started working with it and dumped the flat bench. Aesthetically, my chest went from bottom heavy to evenly filled out pretty quickly. I would like to see what kind of strength gains I can get out of that lift as it still is relatively novel for me in my training life.
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DanMartin
Total Posts: 20705
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05-25-20 02:16 PM - Post#898476
I feel the one-arm press is invaluable. You can do it standing, seated or kneeling. On a flat bench or even an incline bench.
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Dan John
Total Posts: 12292
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05-25-20 04:05 PM - Post#898483
Great feedback, thank you.
Great read, too.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...
Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you |
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blkjss
Total Posts: 2265
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05-25-20 11:30 PM - Post#898494
Nice! ROP is a great program :)
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Jg64
Total Posts: 46
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05-26-20 07:24 AM - Post#898501
The ROP has become my favorite go to program to "get in shape". I have run it with light, medium and heavy kettlebells and it does more than just get me stronger, it improves my body composition big time. It always gives me something in return.
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Arthax
Total Posts: 173
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05-26-20 07:45 AM - Post#898502
The ROP has become my favorite go to program to "get in shape". I have run it with light, medium and heavy kettlebells and it does more than just get me stronger, it improves my body composition big time. It always gives me something in return.
Have you followed the swing/snatch programming to? I plan to do RoP in the fall but kind of want to put all effort in to the press and pull-ups and do the swings by feel something like 75-100 swings per session. Like EMOM. Any thoughts on that?
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Jg64
Total Posts: 46
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05-26-20 08:01 AM - Post#898503
The ROP has become my favorite go to program to "get in shape". I have run it with light, medium and heavy kettlebells and it does more than just get me stronger, it improves my body composition big time. It always gives me something in return.
Yes, done after the pressing ladders. I know now there is an opinion that one can do swings in the manner of "S&S" before the clean + press ladders but ironically I find that doing it as written is effective!
Having said that, doing the ballistics by feel is what I do. I now take a bit more rest than I used to and keep the swings "snappier" if that's the word.
Have you followed the swing/snatch programming to? I plan to do RoP in the fall but kind of want to put all effort in to the press and pull-ups and do the swings by feel something like 75-100 swings per session. Like EMOM. Any thoughts on that?
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Jg64
Total Posts: 46
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05-26-20 08:22 AM - Post#898504
Ok, so that last post didn't contain the quoted part from Arthax I wanted to respond to but please understand that I am a techno-challenged person from the late 70s/early 80s era.
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Arthax
Total Posts: 173
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05-27-20 05:57 AM - Post#898521
Ok, so that last post didn't contain the quoted part from Arthax I wanted to respond to but please understand that I am a techno-challenged person from the late 70s/early 80s era.
I took your technical disability in account when I read your message, and understod it perfectly! ;)
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Arthax
Total Posts: 173
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05-27-20 07:07 AM - Post#898525
Since we are talking about CnP and/or RoP.
I plan to run it in late summer. As for now I own a 16, 24 and 32.
I can strict press the 16 about times and clean and press the 24 about 4 times.
Is there a way to run Rop without buying intermediate bells? Perhaps use the 24 for the 1 and 2, and the 16 for 3,4 and 5 reps?
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pink.pixie
Total Posts: 5576
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It definitely does feel like things are stretching in this new position. My shoulders are all kinds of tight in this shoulders down activated position.
yap, gotta keep the shoulder blades "down and together" in shoulder exercises (for a lack of better expression)
good that you can feel a difference which you perceive as positive
| Aut viam inveniam aut faciam. |
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pink.pixie
Total Posts: 5576
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05-27-20 07:20 AM - Post#898527
Is there a way to run Rop without buying intermediate bells? Perhaps use the 24 for the 1 and 2, and the 16 for 3,4 and 5 reps?
In my experience it takes some experiments like with any other training whenever you need to up it ( for whatever reason)
I worked with different exercises and weights on *the verge of 'heavier'*
i.e. I could do some exercise with 2x10 kg and that makde it easier to go up to one 16 kg Kb on another exercise soon enough.Thus I took some synergy effect into consideration.
Not sure if that would work for you with your program but I mention it here anyhow.
Good luck.
| Aut viam inveniam aut faciam. |
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pink.pixie
Total Posts: 5576
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05-27-20 07:23 AM - Post#898528
Ok, so that last post didn't contain the quoted part from Arthax I wanted to respond to but please understand that I am a techno-challenged person from the late 70s/early 80s era.
When you read the post that you want to quote just click on the " quote post" below the text that you are reading and voilà, it all pops out automatically. You can also edit it but withing the brackets....
You'll figure it out, I am sure....
| Aut viam inveniam aut faciam. |
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pink.pixie
Total Posts: 5576
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Jg 64:
If you click "quick reply" instead- then the quoting option doesn't come up...then you just type away into the window that does pop up.
You are too young not to know this :-)
| Aut viam inveniam aut faciam. |
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Jg64
Total Posts: 46
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05-27-20 09:11 AM - Post#898532
Arthax, traditionally the ROP is done with a weight that you can clean and press for 5 to 8 reps. Because of the volume involved I recommend doing closer to 8...I have also run it with a 10+ weight with great results focussing on form.
Yes, doing the 24 for reps 1 and 2 and the 16 for the remainder of the reps/rungs works. I've read where people have done so with success.
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Jordan Derksen
Total Posts: 392
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05-27-20 09:20 AM - Post#898534
Arthax, ROP works great for 16 and 24. Echoing other experiences the 32 gets a bit much. I have made it up the 5x1,2,3,4,5 ladder to 'finish' the 32, but it's really time to move on after that if the wheels don't come off first. I never used intermediate bells though, just 24 straight to 32. You can sort of run a transition where you start with 1,2,3 on the heavy day with 32 and use 24 on the light/medium day until you adapt to the heavier weight.
As per the overhead position discussion that came about from one arm presses, I just found this video from catalyst athletics. He does a great job explaining what I'm talking about. He specifies not to pull the shoulder blades down, but I have found as I 'retrain' myself from all the shrugging up I've done overhead I have to retract and depress my shoulders back and down just to fight the tendency for my shoulder blades to want to float up.
Here's the video, it's a quick watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGTMblARM-c
As I adapt to this new position my jerks have gotten so much faster! I used to have a slow drive under, but now that I'm activating my whole back and my shoulder blades are in position I have a defined snap to my finish position in the split now. If only I had learnt all this at 21...
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Mike L
Total Posts: 43
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 05-27-20 10:00 PM - Post#898562
good thread. I just wanted to say that I found it useful and easy to implement.
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Arthax
Total Posts: 173
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05-28-20 06:58 AM - Post#898569
Thank you guys for the answers!
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Kyle Aaron
Total Posts: 1911
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I worked with kettlebells only for a few months earlier this year. It was the first time I really took a break from the bar. [...]
Recently I've taken to working in some olympic lifts again now that my shop isn't frozen. I quickly noted how different the overhead positions felt.
I love to say I told you so, so: I told you so. I've been telling you guys this for years.
Training should be in three month terms, terms of 12 weeks with a week off in between. In the fourth term of the year you do something different. You were doing kettlebells, now do barbells. You were doing barbells, now do running. You were running, now do soccer. Whatever. Something different.
You then return to your original sport physically and psychologically refreshed, and maybe you've built some other physical quality or got some insights from the other one.
This is not a recipe for excellence, which requires singular focus and a willingness to be injured in the process. But it is a recipe for training longevity.
It's not about barbells or kettlebells or medicine balls or whatever being some great game-changer. It's taking a break from what you're doing, and doing something same but different.
Much the same applies for academic disciplines, of course, but there's no use talking to those guys.
Anyway, well done, keep going, do it again next year.
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BChase
Total Posts: 854
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Great thread. Nothing to me feels better than getting back to basics with 1 kettlebell workouts.
Edited by BChase on 06-02-20 04:28 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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