01-26-19 10:42 AM - Post#877097    

Long time lurker, first time poster. Sorry this is a little long.

a little about me you can skip if you'd like, question to follow: I was very fit in my 20s, I went back to school and lost a lot of that. I'm about 5'9" and my weight has hovered around 180 since starting school with a little gap over the summer where I lost about 25 pounds in two months due to illness and some other stuff (long story). I'm back around 180 now. Weightlifting was never a priority for me, and when I did do it I injured my hip, which I'm still working with (this was about 4 years ago). I tried the 40 day workout and LOVED it. Going 5 days a week really works for me, I really enjoy the 'practice' element of it and it's been really helpful with helping me find a slightly more structured and disciplined way to keep up with all my other stuff (I work in a different part of the fitness industry and I'm doing a PhD). all my numbers are way higher than they've ever been before, nothing particularly impressive but for me very high and squatting feels pretty good for the first time ever. I went to visit a friend at the end of the program who is really big into lifting and he suggested we test my 1rms, they far exceeded anything I was expecting by large margins. I also lost probably about 3lbs but am visibly much more muscular. I plan to turn this post into a training log for MMS once I start.

I don't really like benching so I haven't done it in years until yesterday.

Here's my question: I want to transition into Mass Made Simple, and I want to follow the program to the letter as best I can. I would like to do that by following Dan's Squat 101 protocol first with the goblet squats; can one integrate that into the 40 day or should I switch to an every other day schedule? Yesterday I hit week two of the hybrid 40 day/squat 101 so my workout was like this:

WARMUP
mobility work
goblet squat with 35lbs kb 2x12
kb swing with 35lbs 3x15, march in place as rest
high plank for one minute with different wrist positions
turkish get up with 35lbs kb 1 per side

WORKOUT
Squat (high bar): 185lbs 2x5
Deadlift: 225lbs 2x5
Squat 101 ramp up: up to 85, very very short rests
Benchpress: 45lbs 1x5, 95 2x5
farmer walks: 80 in each hand out, rest, and then back.
ab stuff and a couple small chin sets (3x3, I do these just to get the movement smooth again)

My legs feel absolutely smoked today; what's the best way to do this? I like the idea of keeping up the forty day style to grease the groove on the bench (the OHP was my push during the last 40 day cycle), the other stuff I'm willing to temporarily put on hold as I transition to MMS.

I'm thinking these are my possible options:

A. Switch to a three days a week with rest days set up, do squat 101 in place of the squat workout

B. Stick to the 40 day template but every other workout do the squat 101 in place of the highbar lift, but otherwise squat every time I'm in the gym one way or another; ideally by dropping the weight on the high bar to keep up with the 101 template.

or

C. Do the 40 day workout minus the squat, every other day do the squat 101 workout on top.

Anyone have advice from personal experience? Thanks so much, this forum has been really helpful over the last couple of weeks (and thanks to Dan for putting out so much amazing content).

Edited by read the bread book on 01-26-19 10:49 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

01-26-19 11:43 AM - Post#877101    

To help me understand this...

Are you using the MMS book?

If you are, I would suggest just doing the program...but perhaps at lighter weights.

When you mix and match programs...it gets hard to figure out how to help. You are doing a lot of things here.

Daniel John Just handing down what I was handed down... Make a Difference. Live. Love. Laugh. Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude) Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk. Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth. Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights. Reread great books. Say thank you

01-26-19 12:00 PM - Post#877103    

Thanks for the quick response Dan!

I'm going from the book. I guess my main concern would be making sure I am ready for the benching when I hit the full workout as it has been a problem in the past. I know the first workout has a 'figure out your bench' approach to benching in it, I'm just so enamored by the 40 day greasing that I want to make sure it all runs as smoothly as possible, and I'm also thinking about trying to cut a little weight, as suggested, before starting the bulking part.

I also know about myself I have a tendency to overdue it, which is why I loved the 40 day; once I get going with something physical its always a balance for me of doing enough (to get my brain to chill out) and doing too much (and thus destroying my body).

01-28-19 10:57 AM - Post#877229    

Also consider MMS Lite, same principles but a bit more manageable for the first go.

02-10-19 01:08 AM - Post#877946    

hey gang, two follow up questions.

I noticed on week six of the squat 101 protocol (currently on 'week five')dan says to 'perform the goblet squat' with the heaviest bell you can. How many reps? How many sets?

I ask partially because my gyms bells only go to 110, and I'm already doing those in my sets of three reps during rack walk-ups and walk-downs.

I had another question for folks on here: any tips on programming to lose weight right before MMS?

02-11-19 12:10 PM - Post#878010    

I was confused by that too. My gym had some seriously big dumbbells, so I ended up going for a heavy single.

If you're 180 and repping a 110# DB, I'd guess that you're ready for MMS proper.

For weight loss, I'd throw out 1) cut carbs, 2) time restricted eating / intermittent fasting, 3) as much walking as you can manage, 4) sleep a bunch. That last one will serve you well during MMS too.

02-15-19 03:46 PM - Post#878220    

So to follow up, just did the first week six workout: holy hell, I feel smoked. I couldn't do it with the rest periods given (went from 110 down to 25). I often ended up resting for more like 30-45 seconds per set, and about two minutes before the next walk down. Is this going to be a problem for me? Had to lie on the floor for a few minutes afterwards!

02-15-19 04:45 PM - Post#878225    

I am not a doctor, but it sounds to me like you're doing it right.

02-18-19 08:49 PM - Post#878421    

alright, so gearing up for the last day of the 101.
I find the walk-ups much much easier than the walk-downs, was able to easily complete the last workout with the heaviest bells in my gym. Very surprised how much of a back workout it ends up being; also pleasantly surprised that cleaning them to chest height is now not difficult.


so for this last workout, any suggestions on rep scheme? I'll probably use the 110 since so far so good with it.

02-21-19 10:37 PM - Post#878634    

warning: long post. Mods, feel free to move this to training logs if it feels more appropriate.

so I guess today was day one and I am going for more of a 'lean made simple' type project here. I gave it more thought and 'trying to lose weight' has never worked for me as a goal; it has always been a result of something else. To that end, I plan to monitor my diet pretty closely and eat by feel as I go. I already eat like a grown up, and its very easy to for me to slam healthy fatty foods so i'm going to skip the pb and j unless I need it (I can eat a jar of almond butter in one sitting without blinking; when I was in my best shape I did that two to three times a week and somehow about 15 pounds lighter). I'll keep a very vague diet log on lifting days as well.

post-school-lifestyle-cha nge-bunch-of-injuries-bei ng-over-30-1RM-PRs-all-te sted-in-one-day (left some in the tank so who knows what they actually are) (all weights are in lbs):
high-bar squat - 255
deadlift - 315
ohp - 125
bench - I haven't benched in years. this should be fun.

Day 1:

Weight - Didn't check, so let's just call it 180 because it was dipping in that direction last time I did.
Definitely need to eat before the gym on this one. had two dried figs and a bunch of water. Needless to say, it wasn't enough.

warm up - foam rolled at home, walked ~7 minutes to the gym, then some goblet squats at 35, turkish get ups, and my usual mobility drills.

starting fairly conservative on this with numbers, willing to jump as needed.

Bench:
45x5
65x5
95x5
115x5
135x5
135x5
felt like I could do a lot more, but being conservative here as in the past too much has messed with my shoulder. addressing some of this in cool down and on recharge days.

batwings:
30 in each hand for 10 seconds, twice. I hate doing these but I love the way they make me feel.

dumbbell press:
left:
25x5
30x5
35x5
40x5
45x3
right:
45x3
25x5
30x5
35x5
40x5
45x3
finished with the left again. definitely had way more in the tank on the right, left is wobbly. hoping this will help fix that, trying to focus on controlled descent.

bird dogs
dunno, did them until I didn't. been doing them for years and years, I like them. the hip extension is crucial for me since I sit around reading all day and used to cycle insane amounts for my commute on a single speed (~160 miles a week)

complex:
45x3
65x3
85x3
definitely see what dan was saying about the press becoming the limiting factor. No problems on this go around. I didn't hate these at all. I don't really like the good-mornings, but this is also my first time doing them.

squat:
I am stupid and didn't bring the actual book with me to the gym. After consulting it when I got home I realized I went too heavy. This was very hard but doable. I didn't feel anything like muscular fatigue, more like a nervous system wonkiness ('why are you doing this to yourself?'). Oddly, I mostly felt discomfort in my right arch. Desperately need some new shoes, beat to hell vans with holes in the soles aren't going to cut it for this. Mentally I broke it into three sets of ten, counting up, then down, then up again. seemed to work.
135x30
then sat on the floor for maybe two minutes to catch my breath. my friend who came to the gym with me thinks I am insane.

cool down:
some lunges, twists, external rotation in the hip, little bit of hip flexor release. need to work internal rotation more, seems to be a limiting factor for my hip and cause some discomfort.

immediately after the gym ate five tacos with half an avocado, onion, orange pepper, and two tofurky sausages (I've been vegan for about 16 years (if you are reading this and want to give me advice on protein consumption or soy, please refrain, i'm fine)). ends up being about 1k calories, we'll call it something like 60g of protein if you are only counting the sausages.

in a class had a snack of a handful of cashews and a clementine. my professor is an angel.

dinner was with a friend at a wonderful sichuan dry-pot place. very spicy and tasty. bunch of tofu floating around in there, otherwise veggies, mushrooms, and probably about a cup of rice.

making a protein shake/smoothie with some chia, hemp, protein powder, and fruit to be determined, then winding down and going to bed. going for one scoop to start, so that's another 35g or so of protein. lights out by 11:30pm is the plan; we'll see if that works.

tomorrow I plan to get a floppy tape measure and take some photos so I can track things more accurately.

02-24-19 12:30 PM - Post#878742    

day two:

2/24/19
Didn't get enough sleep the night before or in general, still something I'm working on. Had a smoothie with some protein in it before the workout today, definitely helped.

warmup
foam rolling
normal mobility stuff
strides to the gym instead of walking

bench:
(warmup)
65x5
95x5 x2

135x2-3-5 x2
end of the bench was definitely a grind, I need to make sure I don't protract my shoulderblades at the end (way too much pec minor on the left side). workout took about 75 minutes, would love to cut that down a bit eventually.

batwings
30 in each hand x10, five second holds. might drop this to 25 next workout.

one arm press
45x2 40x3-5
40x2-3-5

I think 45 is currently at the edge for me; maybe could have done it with more rest, but it probably would've negatively impacted the press in the complex. Plan to go up sooner than later.

birddogs
yeah, same, fine. cool.

complex
today I started to understand why people don't like these. I need to work on my front squat arm positioning; I don't get my arms nearly as horizontal as others seem to though this doesn't seem to cause any problems. probably because of the low-ish weight relative to my press strength. will work to resolve this.
45
65
85
65
65
again, being conservative. the press was definitely the limiting factor on the 85, gave it a little nudge on the last rep. 65 was a sweet spot. 75 probably would have been fine but all the undergrads at my gym have terrible etiquette and hide everything so I could barely find the plates I needed nevermind the little baby ones.

squat
I respect you immensely Dan John, but I also kind of hate you.
95x30 x2

rested for about three and a half minutes between sets. after the first set got a weird cramp in my right glute, walked it off which was fine, haven't noticed anything since. general principle is still do ten, pause, do ten, pause, do ten.

no cool down except walking home and then up the five flights of stairs in my wonderful walk-up apartment. that was fun. Love that I get to do this at least twice a day.

diet was crap today. had some tacos right after workout, but then had to run to a work thing. I was able to do some stretching out at work which has definitely decreased soreness. I had a work dinner and there was basically nothing for me to eat; ended up eating a lot of dried fruit and some wasabi peas. Did not feel good. Was very glad I had two apples and a banana with me, but that is not enough by any stretch of the imagination. Ended up eating a peanut butter and jelly sandwich at a friend's house around 9:30pm and then eating two sausages when I got home around 1am. This is way too late to be staying up while doing this.

general notes: still haven't been able to find measuring tape, which is mind-boggling, and need to get more protein powder as i'm running low. I don't love drinking the protein I'm using right now as much as I do, makes me feel quite bloated throughout the day. I also don't really like eating this heavily/proteining this much before bed but i'll see how things progress. Previously had two types and alternated, but ran out of the other one. Planning to try some new stuff a comically large powerlifting friend uses. I also need to actually use the scale when I go to the gym and take some photos!!

heading to bed way too late, sleep is the priority for the next few days. I need to stop powering through tiredness and try just napping or going to bed when I feel sleepy. Way too used to getting second and third winds, probably not great long term. unfortunately will have to do more walking then I would like on monday. such is life.

meal prep time.

02-25-19 10:40 AM - Post#878806    

Actually impressed you got through in 75 minutes, I'm running MMS at the moment and it's taken me around 2hrs30 most workouts. Make sure you get a protein powder you like because you'll be getting through a lot of it and you really want to minimize how much willpower the diet takes. Switching from an unflavoured powder to a chocolate flavoured one has made this so much easier for me.

Best of luck

02-27-19 01:52 AM - Post#878894    

workout three 2/26/19:

weight before workout wearing sweatsuit and shoes: 188.9

definitely seeing some muscle growth, especially up top. my arms and shoulders/traps are visibly larger. belly is about the same; will have to deal with that after I finish all this. I am semi secretly hoping it shrinks since I am carrying a bit of fat right now and this probably isn't much more calories than I normally eat (but with a lot more protein!).

Today was fine. New protein powder which has drastically cut down the bloat, very pleased. and it's very cheap to boot! (nitrofusion vanilla for those who are curious)

weights were the same as day two, bench will be 155 next time, press will move to 45. I always feel weird asking for a spot with a not too heavy weight, especially since I don't end up needing it.

complexes felt very good today.

squat was 95x30 then 115x30. the first fifteen of the 95 were really quick, no problems. had to slow down a bit around 18 on the 115, but no serious issues.

Because of space issues I ended up doing the batwings followed by the bird dogs at the end of the workout; I prefer them earlier for sure.

been feeling some discomfort in my undiagnosed but pt'd hip/quad/tfl/butt/low back area. going to prioritize digging in there with some bouncy balls. I've also noticed doing 'ab exercises' seems to help with the pain there; might add them back in at the end of my workout (leg lifts and incline twist sit ups) as pseudo rehab.

cool down today was some stretching after walking home, felt good. also shaved off a beard that I had been growing for about a week and a half, feel more like myself again.

sleep still isn't great, though I did manage to take a 40 minute nap yesterday which feels like a huge accomplishment (but here I am staying up way too late yet again). did a big meal prep the other day and have been eating that.

today was:
three tacos for breakfast, beans and sausage with some avocado
pasta with a different sausage and tomato sauce for lunch
various snacks: a pear, pecans, and cashews, a smoothie with chia, mango, soymilk, and hemp seeds, and way too much of this insanely delicious snack a classmate brought in. Carbs felt good after the workout!
white rice, baked/marinated tofu, bok choy, and mushrooms for dinner.
two scoops of protein before bed; probably totals out around 165 for the day without counting the things that aren't 'explicitly' protein.


better late than never, but tomorrow morning i'll take some photos and measurements, too much effort for right now (though proportionally, I am all quad).
time to try to sleep.

03-02-19 10:12 PM - Post#879101    

alright. morning of 3/2/19 measurements are as follows:
Neck: 15.5
Shoulder: 48.5
Bicep L: 13 (unflexed) (flexed 14)
Bicep R: 13 (unflexed) (flexed 13.8)
Chest: 42.5
Waist: 36.6
Hips: 40
Thigh L: 24.25
Thigh R: 24.75
Calf L: 15.75
Calf R: 15.75

workout four: 3/1/19
190.5 in the same clothes as last weigh-in, so up about 1.5lbs in three days. probably mostly water tbh. this one was rough.
bench was 145 as workout calls for, then
135x8
my bench still feels really wonky, but been looking into cues and talking to friends who compete so feeling ready for the next one. however...

OHP
left arm started at 45x2, then couldn't hit 40 for even one, ended up dropping the weight to 35 for the rest of the workout. was very angry at myself and felt very frustrated at what appears to be a bit of a backslide. I think part of this is my crappy bench form, but also I should probably take more rest after my bench set before moving to the press.

batwings same as before, 30 in each hand.

birddogs same as before, they feel fine.

complexes as written at 65lbs. still not loving the good mornings but they're fine, shoulder was on fire during the press part but I got through.

squat
these were hard. first set was a breeze, second set got hard around 17, third set was a brutal grind for the first 4 and the last 5. My hip and lower back were bothering me towards the end, no surprise there. I may invest in a rumble roller.

A very big steroid man (no negativity here: my gym is exclusively puny children who are just starting, bodybuilders who skip leg days, and ex-military powerlifters who do steroids and are comically humongous) who was waiting for the cage was like damn that was impressive how many was that what the hell. it made me feel much better about the mishap with the ohp.

after the workout I walked home and up my five flights of stairs, and then had to just lay on the floor for about ten minutes. A friend suggested I eat a swedish fish, which helped immensely. I'm going to start bringing them to the gym to eat one between sets for the squats. I did that when testing my 1rm that I wrote about above, and a few of my powerlifting friends do it. its insane what a little extra sugar can do.

I was so dead that I ended up having to miss class. In general I need to give myself at least an hour and change between the gym and class to eat, shower, etc.

I also forgot because it was new to me, IF YOU ARE EATING LATE AT NIGHT MAKE SURE TO SPACE OUT THE PROTEIN SHAKE AFTERWARDS!!! I can't stress this enough; I ended up feeling like I was going to puke literally like a baby that drank too much formula for about 20 minutes.

sleep was good last night, night before the workout was bad. thinking I can't actually outrun my poor sleeping on this program, so going to prioritize an earlier lights out/phones off etc.

been eating lots of beans, lots of field roast, and beyond meat. we'll see how things progress.

03-05-19 01:18 AM - Post#879217    

Workout Five:

today had to start much later because of travel. Didn't get to the gym until almost 8pm, which lead to a very late dinner and yet another late night. Did a lot more static stretching a few hours before the workout, which might have helped with the hip but its feeling a bit cranky now. Very hard to get a sense of what exactly it is. Anyway:

Bench: 145x 2-3-5 x2 then 2-3-4
my shoulder stability on this is still quite rough and I missed a rep because of it. After rep two of that last sub-set I felt my shoulder start to slide so I took a second to re-set it and was able to get two more reps. My spotter remarked on the instability. Any suggestions here? will reiterate this question at the bottom in hopes that someone is actually reading this other than me haha.

upped the batwings to 35 in each hand. went fine.

due to the difficulty last time, I switched back to the 40s on my overhead press. all three sets completed with no problems.

complexes were done at 65, all sets finished with no problems.

birddogs were birddogs.

squats
45x5
95x30
115x30
135x15

squats were interesting this workout. that first set of thirty was a real struggle, foot hurt, hip was cranky, etc etc. I then ate a swedish fish, which was miraculous. I then drank some water (it didn't turn to wine), and the next set was easy. the last one was actually the easiest of the bunch.

finished the workout with some captains chair leg raises and twisty sit ups. I like these because I partially feel them in my hipflexors; they seem to be a contraction in an area that usually feels compressed when I squat. I worry the lacrosse ball in the tfl/glute/piriformis along with the constant attempts at hip extension is aggravating things, not improving them. unclear. I noticed in the past the very very end of the hip extension in the deadlift is a sticking point for me, and if I clench my butt and stand up very straight I feel a 'stretch' at the front of my hip. Not sure if this means to yank at it more or leave it alone a little.


Sleep is still a real struggle, but this weekend seemed to go pretty well. I did have one night where I woke up after about 6 hours and was bolt awake, so I ended up getting up and then taking a nap later. that was fine.

diet is going well, my lady is very happy with the increase in the size of my posterior chain. oddly, even though i'm super quad dominant, i'm seeing some noticeable growth in the glutes and hamstrings.




So on the bench should I be dropping the weight again (back to 135 from 145) and really focusing on nailing the form or just keep on keeping on? I hate missing reps! Anyone have suggestions for shoulder stability that are doable while doing this program?

03-05-19 04:17 PM - Post#879244    

That's rough. I don't have any specific technique tips.

I will say that I've never regretted ratcheting back or bailing on part of a program if that's what it took to preserve a joint. It's hard in the moment when I have my eyes set on a certain progression or outcome, but life can be like that.

I definitely had to walk the line when doing MMS with a few joints, and I probably went over the line a few times.

03-08-19 01:44 AM - Post#879347    

probably need to drop the bench even more I guess? really frustrating. when I used to bench it was so easy, I don't get what happened! Like maybe two weeks in I was at body-weight just by virtue of all the push-ups I used to do (and there's the answer of what happened).

Workout Six:
started around 8pm, finished around 10pm.
weight at start of workout, same clothes as previous posts: 193.3

I spent more time at the gym then any previous workout because I tried to rest; I took nine minutes between my last warm-up set and my big squat set. My hip/lower back was bothering me before the workout, some form corrections definitely helped but didn't quite solve the problem.

Bench
135x 2-3-5-9
135x 2-3-3
135x 2-3-4

so this is my worst lift, and its very very frustrating. my shoulder felt a lot more stable today, but I just couldn't get the weight to move despite this being lighter than the last workout. I blame this on poor sleep for the last few days (more on this below). I think I'm going to have to just be more humble about this and drop to 115 as my working weight for a little bit. Not sure whether I should test the double or just do a normal 2-3-5 next workout. I have no idea what my double could possibly be. I suspect the future 'double weight - 20 for five doubles' weight would be within 10 pounds of what I was doing last workout (145).

batwings
35 per hand x5

these felt fine as always.

OHP
warmed up with 15x5 and 25x5
40x 2-3-5 x3
no problems here.

Bird Dogs
I usually do ten. Should I do more? less? I still like them, they're still fine.

Complex
45 1x5
65 4x5

Needed a little bump via the legs on the last rep of the military press on the fourth set, no problems on the fifth. I really like these, will probably keep them in my repertoire when this is over.

squat
45x5
95x10
115x10
135x30-20

I felt tired before I even got to the gym, and I had no swedish fish for the extra bump. I know I know, don't stop at round numbers, but I had mentally psyched myself up as "you've already done this weight for thirty, this won't be hard. just keep moving" and my foot and back were both really cramping up so I had to stop. I racked the bar, moved around a little, and maybe thirty seconds later did the last twenty. It was a struggle at the end, but it still somehow feels more manageable than the bench! I have some squat shoes coming the mail, they should be here for my next workout; I hope that helps. Something I'm learning about my body is that I 'bite down' too much with my hip flexors and end up in too much of an anterior tilt with my pelvis, and I end up clenching up around l4/l5. I actually need to head closer to butt wink to squat pain free. go figure.

I finished with the same ab exercises as before and a free hang for about 40 seconds just to decompress my shoulders and back. Tomorrow I'll do some foam-rolling and stretching.


diet has been fine, though my protein powder has waaaay too much sodium. I've had to cut back on salt in everything else just because the volume of this stuff is making my head spin. I'd say on the average day I get around 160g of protein (not counting the protein in veggies and carbs, but the stuff i'm eating 'for protein'). I don't love eating like this, a bit too heavy on the processed stuff, but I am reminding myself this isn't forever, it's just for right now. I'm going to try a different protein powder brand with a similar profile (and price!!) to rotate in.

I think the insane amount of salt is making me retain more water, and explains a bit of the weight gain, which is a little more like bloat. I already had a belly and love handles before I started this, and they're getting a little bigger. I feel slightly torn between eating 'enough' for recovery and also trying to not put on too much weight (I know, its a bulk!). I'm going to try to dial back the calories just slightly while maintaining the protein levels and see what happens. I think my 'bench muscles' are just too atrophied from neglecting the lift for so long, thus the form issues, since I've been able to hit all the other lifts without too many problems.

I definitely plan to try and lose some weight when this is over by getting back into running and doing a cycle of EES; I told myself this would be a fine time to pack on muscle because in May I'm going back to heavy duty martial arts training. At that point the conditioning side will become the focus just out of necessity.

The biggest issue, still, is sleep. Fully. I might even say it's really THE ONLY issue (the bench I can just dial back and keep on keeping on with; trying to remind myself progress is progress even if you start small). I need more of it. Personal stuff plus school/work makes it a bit rough, but I need to prioritize it over the dumb crap I do late at night like writing in this journal (or, y'know, just write earlier!). Mood has definitely had some weird spikes, but I generally feel pretty relaxed given what I'm doing and all the other stuff. Really need to make sure I do the workouts around mid-morning when possible; too close to breakfast isn't good, and evening both means less energy and more difficulty getting to bed at a reasonable hour. Time to actually sleep.

40-day workout to MMS transition
03-20-19 01:16 PM - Post#879905    

So we're now three workouts later. Weight fluctuates day to day but hangs around 195. Maybe should push it a little harder? more below. I'll save the write up for the whole thing not each individual workout.

workout seven 3/11/19:

bench
45x10
65x10
95x5
135x3
155x2
185x2 (was very surprised by this)

batwings
35 per handx5 10 sec hold

OHP
40 as written

birddogs
x10

complex
65x5
75x5
85x5

squat
as written (no problems)

Workout eight 3/14/19:

bench
45x10
95x5
115x5
125x3
165x2 x5

batwings: (dumbbells inaccessible so used what was available)
35
35
45
35
35

OHP
40 as written

Complex
55x2
65x2
75x2
85x2
95x2

Squat (this was disappointing)
45x5
135x10
185x17
185x8
185x10
185x10
185x5

workout nine 3/17/19
bench (terrible spotters)
155x3 x2
165x3 x3 (I don't know that I should count the last rep on two of these three)

batwing and ohp as written

complex
95x2x3

squat
as written
as many set: 185x20

my sleep is still terrible. I find it very hard to get the adequate amount of protein without getting a stomachache. I've started spacing out feeding every two hours or so which seems to be helping rather than big meals (which is generally what I prefer). I quit the late night protein shake and instead do it mid-afternoon and before dinner, split into two. It was causing too much bloating before bed (I've added another protein powder into the rotation that is much lower on sodium as well which has helped a bit with how I feel). my butt and hamstrings are humongous; seeing some growth a few other places (especially chest/lats/arms, shirts are tighter) but not as substantial. None of my pants fit me comfortably.

I saw my acupuncturist about my back pain, and she stuck her hand inside my stomach and released my psoas. my back pain immediately disappeared, i stood up straighter, my lat also released and spread more evenly, and my hips felt insane. unfortunately the clenching has returned, but i'm going to see her regularly for a little bit to see if we can fix the problem. turns out I was right: my shoulder immediately felt more stable etc.

My mood has been kinda crappy; I feel more emotional in general, am a bit more snippy, etc. My body odor has changed substantially; way more ammonia-y. given what I know about the way your body metabolizes protein, maybe this means I should be eating more carbs? I don't quite understand this side of things. I told myself I would do this to the end, so I intend to, but it is pretty hard on the system. Especially if you already eat very healthy, the switch to super high protein can be a bit of a shock. I feel like I'm having some general composition changes, not just putting on muscle, but again, unclear as of now.

I had to do an extended yoga practice yesterday for work, and just a gentle reminder to my friends here that (depending on style) YOGA IS EXERCISE so it may be lighter intensity in some ways than what you're doing in the weight room, but it ain't rest. I'm hoping it doesn't negatively impact my workout today, but I'm not holding my breath.

I really like the squat shoes, they make things a bit smoother and have mostly solved the pain in my foot. I'm also realizing I very much prefer 'park bench' style workouts, but with the structure of a time constraint. a set 75 minute chunk of do whatever feels right is MUCH better for me psychologically than HIT THESE NUMBERS and it takes as long as it takes. I can't WAIT to get back on easier strength plus some jogging to cut and see what I got under here.

debating upping calorie intake just for this last two weeks and seeing what happens; as a former fat kid gaining weight is a bit loaded for me, and this is already the heaviest I've been in about 10 years. might be interesting to reach 200 though...

Edited by read the bread book on 03-21-19 03:28 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

03-21-19 03:28 AM - Post#879947    

my brain doesn't work well so I accidentally did some things not quite right today; amazing the difference a good spotter makes!

workout ten 3/20/19

bench
45x10
65x10
95x8
115x5
135x3
155x5-3-2 x2 (mixed it up somehow? also had to do 155 because no plates were available. my gym is ridiculous. thirty second pauses during 'set')

batwings
usual

OHP
45 5-3-2 (yep)
45 2-3-5 (ohhhh, right.)

Birddogs
usual

complex
95x2x5

Squat
as written
to 50 'set:' 20, 15, 15 very very little rest, at most two minutes. gym was closing so I had to rush. that twenty hurdle was hard to pass, I blame what I talked about in my previous post. But that's three sets instead of five including more reps on the first set, so I consider it a win.

my lower back was cramping right afterwards (I felt like I was really struggling to keep an upright torso position on the last eight reps or so) so I did some illopsoas release things and low and behold it immediately improved. clearly that's the ticket for me.

protein intake today is probably around 150g (again, not including anything in all the veggies, oats, and tortillas I've eaten today), ate a sweet potato as 'desert,'a fried plantain, and about a pound of collard greens with my tacos. carbs are great, y'all are crazy. given my current LBM, I'd say this is probably right on the money (figure I'm probably at least 20% bf right now, 195lbs, that leaves me at about 156lbs of lbm).

If you're reading this for some reason get yourself some udo's 3-6-9 omega oil blend and vitamineral green, they're the best supplements in the universe.

03-31-19 01:02 PM - Post#880403    

had to take a few days off because of actual time available which was frustrating, so my schedule is a bit loopier. was meant to be finished with the program tomorrow (4/1) and now it looks like I will be done on friday. The diet is really the hard part for me on this; I feel bloated basically all the time. I also hate weighing this much; that probably should have been predictable.

workout eleven 3/26/19
weight at beginning of workout: 195.5

bench
45x10
65x10
95x8
115x5
135x5
155x3
185x2
the long rest between workouts definitely made a difference. I also had a lift off on the double and I seem to remember Dan saying something about his football players doing better when having the bar 'placed' on them; this is definitely true for me, that was the easiest lift I've ever done and I felt like I could have shot way way higher. Trying to be smart though and not overstretch it given past problems.

batwings
35 per hand, same as it ever was

ohp
warm ups then
2-3-5x40lbs
2-3-5x45lbs

bird dog
same as it ever was

complex
65x5
75x5
95x0(?)
first failure during complexes. crapped out during the OHP on the last rep. re-racked and did the rest. it was all fine otherwise. interesting feeling failing a press after the row, clean, and front squat. not the typical 'this just won't move' ohp failure, more like a whole body tremor. didn't love that.

squat
appropriate warm-up as written then for 'to fifty' set:
185x21
185x20
185x9

I consider this a huge improvement. added more volume in the first grouping, and way more in the second.

workout twelve 3/30/19
weigh in before workout: 198.6 (probably a bunch of it water)

benchpress
45x10
65x10
95x8
115x5
135x5
165x2x5

no problems at all, if anything this felt too light. finding for the bench I need way more warm up for it to work properly.

batwings
40 in each hand, probably time to up the weight on these.

OHP
45x2-3-5x3

I think this is a PR? I used to press my fifty pound kettlebell overhead when I walked by it, but that was singles so this seems significant?

birddogs
same as it ever was

complex
95x3x3

not a problem at all. These are easier at less reps; duh.

squat
as written and for to fifty set:
135x50

this wasn't hard until about rep 44. I didn't even feel particularly drained afterwards and went on a long walk with my girlfriend since the weather was nice. I had been having some knee discomfort, but I think that's from some more acupuncture stuff and it feels completely fine today. In any event, I'll be glad to be done with this soon.

as stated above, diet is hard, and I'd add to that mood has really suffered. It would probably be better if my digestion wasn't so messed up / I slept more, but here we are.

trying to decide what to do immediately after this; might go for easy strength again, part of me wants to try a modified mms-lite as a 'lean' program and just dial back the squats (basically ees levels) to allow me space for running. I'm sure other people have noticed this, but I've mostly been putting on muscle in my hips and legs, followed by my 'mid-trunk.' arms have been the slowest. But overall, as others have said, it does exactly what it says it will. I'll be cutting all summer while training martial arts / doing kettlebells so it'll all come out in the wash.

I also find on my actual work out days I have extra difficulty sleeping. anyone else experienced this? I get too wired or something.

04-04-19 12:17 AM - Post#880562    

went to a friends yoga class on my 'rest' day, had acupuncture on my recovery day, felt 'deflated' in the sense that the pump finally went away for the first time in weeks and i felt pretty chill. very good feeling. I was 'down' almost a pound and a half at weigh in but felt 100 pounds lighter. Odd.

workout thirteen
weight: 197.2

normal warm up; some stretching, foam rolling, etc.

bench
45x10
95x8
115x5
135x5
165x3x5

I probably could've done this with no spotter, this isn't heavy enough. it feels amazing to type that given the first few workouts. everything is working smoother ,shoulder is feeling better, etc.

batwings
40x5

feels good. again, probably could go heavier.

OHP
25x8
30x5
45x2-3-5x3

feels good, no problems.

complexes
95x2x5

looking back I realize I've done this before; I will say that now there's nothing resembling cheating on the press. Could probably go heavier, and probably will once I'm done with this.

birddogs
same as it ever was

squat
as written
185x10
135x40+10

I was pretty frustrated by this; it was the arches of my feet that were the problem, they were on fire. I blame the yoga from a few days earlier (more calf/hamstring stretching etc). the 185x10 felt SUPER easy, which is pretty damn cool. after about 20 on the 135 my feet started bothering me to the point where i had to sort of hop on one foot and shake them out every three reps or so; on the bright side, this makes me feel like I could jump up and down on one foot with 135 on my shoulders or run a marathon with it without blinking. I barely even notice the weight itself. I re-racked, sat on the safety rail for maybe ten seconds just to get my feet to relax, and then finished the set.

Protein compliance has been good, but my stomach still doesn't like this much of it. been taking more probiotic capsules (now at x3 a day) along with kimchi in one meal a day, which seems to be helping a bit. it really is the powder that does it to me, the food itself is fine.

I don't feel particularly sore today except in one part of my hamstrings. Went to a whole body chiropractor at the behest of my acupuncturist and feeling pretty damn good. Trying for some real sleep the next two days and a strong finish on friday. this is probably the first time I've actually followed a bus bench program (I mean minus my stupid mistakes from me not being able to read good). my butt is huge, that seems the biggest change, but we'll measure on saturday and see how things are looking.

04-06-19 01:13 AM - Post#880635    

definitely noticing some differences from the chiro. hard to remember sometimes that 'fixing' something means it's different!


Workout Fourteen

Weight at start of workout (early afternoon): 198.3

normal warm-up plus a few more goblets at 45

bench
45x10
65x8
95x6
135x5
155x3
205x0
190x2

I was pretty frustrated by the failure obviously; had a good lift off and a great spotter who really only came in when it was absolutely necessary (got it about halfway up. I pause, no bouncing etc). felt a serious twinge in my back/hip but walked it off. then hit 190 for an incredibly easy double. Definitely feel pretty good about that given my earlier difficulties.

batwings
40x5 same same

OHP
20x6
30x5
45x2-3-5
50x2-3-5

this was so easy. so I upped it. it was also so easy. makes me wonder if I should've pushed it harder for the last few weeks.

complex
95x2x3

again, easy. gonna keep doing these and do them heavier!

Squat
45x5
135x5
135x3
185x35 (3mins rest and some stretching)
185x15

this was really upsetting. around 27 it became clear it wasn't going to happen (which honestly felt very emotional) so I squeezed out a couple more. I then had to stretch out a little as the lower back problem was flaring up/collect myself. I then did that last chunk.

took more than a few minutes to stretch out afterward, its still bothering me a little but nothing crazy.

so this is it for this one. will do a comprehensive write up with measurements (weight at start of next workout) in the near future, and will keep up the protein (about 190g today). thanks folks.

40-day workout to MMS transition
04-08-19 12:09 PM - Post#880717    

THE RESULTS / POST-MORTEM

Ranking the tweaks:
1 protein upon rising (by a mile)
2 protein after workout
3 protein before bed
4 protein before workout
5 creatine (n/a)

I found I got too bloated with all the shakes and actually have a strategy that works much better for me: if aiming for 'three' big shakes through the day (30-50g protein, 180-220 calories), I divide it into six and have one every two hours or so. this keeps my stomach from hurting. I didn't take creatine because I did it a million years ago and didn't love it. If you're a vegan that already eats healthy, be aware there will be a trade-off in general food habits: temporarily drastically increase sodium consumption, or work at slightly lower protein levels.

SIZE/WEIGHT RESULTS:
Weight gain from 2/26-4/6: 9.8lbs
3/2/19 (190.5ish)
Neck: 15.5
Shoulder: 48.5
Bicep L: 13 (unflexed) (flexed 14)
Bicep R: 13 (unflexed) (flexed 13.8)
Chest: 42.5
Waist: 36.6
Hips: 40
Thigh L: 24.25
Thigh R: 24.75
Calf L: 15.75
Calf R: 15.75


4/6/19 (198.7ish)
Neck: 15.75 (+.25)
Shoulder: 50.25 (+1.75)
Bicep L: 13.1 (flexed 14.25) (+.1)
Bicep R: 13.25 (flexed 14.25) (+.25)
Chest: 44.5 (+2)
Waist: 37.25 (+.6)
Hips: 41 (+1)
Thigh L: 25.5 (+1.25)
Thigh R: 25.5 (+.75)
Calf L: 15.8 (+.05)
Calf R: 15.8 (+.05)

somehow the change in the hips is by far the most visible. I think I'm a little smoother all around, but not much, and there's a lot more muscle under there. The gains in the chest and shoulder aren't particularly surprising and a little noticeable; hopefully more so when I drop the weight. My sense is that I had quite a bit of body comp change along with the weight change.

THINGS I LIKED / DIDN'T LIKE
I actually enjoyed all of the lifts. I loved the complexes. I hated the squats in a certain sense but appreciated them in a more general one. I didn't like how tired I felt often after workouts. It's remarkable to me how much your work capacity increases, however. After workout eleven (see above) I was shuffling and had to walk very slowly for several days etc. After the last workout, I ran a mile (had to rush somewhere) and the next day walked about 4 with my girlfriend. I hated the rigidity of this program, but I appreciated that it helped me recognize some things that don't come up quite the same without it. DO NOT DO THIS IF YOU HAVE NAGGING ACHES AND PAINS UNLESS YOU ARE GOING TO DIRECTLY ADDRESS THEM. I wish I had started seeing my acu/chiro combo earlier on, they're the reason I got through this and a lot of my issues are now better than they've been in YEARS. We like to pretend that 'strength' is the base we build fitness off of, but you can't build strength if there's skeletal/muscular dysfunction. Check that stuff and you'll be all good.

WOULD I RECOMMEND THIS?
Emphatically yes. Just make sure you know what exactly you're getting into. It's not 'hypertrophy made simple,' or 'bodyweight squats for 50 reps made simple,' it's big thick mass made simple. If you're already kinda heavy, save this one for another time (I plan to do this again in maybe a year).

FINAL THOUGHTS/IMPRESSIONS
As someone with a really strong 'type A' kind of personality, this was a really hard program for me. I'm very very hard on myself. Thinking about it realistically, I could have pushed harder on the overhead press and the complex. I plan to do that in training in the coming months. But, looking back over my logs, and my really extreme difficulty during the last workout (I maybe undersold it here, I was on the verge of serious sobbing I was so frustrated), I'm way way too hard on myself. Focus and worrying aren't quite the same thing. I always feel like I'm not pushing hard enough; sometimes it's okay to do 35 reps of squats at 185; my big boy powerlifting friends think I'm a monster now, and I don't think they're just bullshitting me. I'm not winning any contests with what I did here, but there's improvement all around.

It was important to me to do this program in full psychologically, to stick with something. That helped me learn that I hate these kinds of programs. I'd rather be infinitely practicing then pushing towards a goal. But, working towards a goal helped to identify and address what was going on on my left side, a persistent problem for years (seen pts, seen other kinds of doctors, etc). I can now bench without it hurting, I can squat for volume without it hurting, and all of that is great. I'm trying to think of something more sagely to say here, but maybe just if you practice being stressed, you'll feel stressed. and with a program that adds a lot of direct physiological stress to the system, you can't really stack beating yourself up for not being good enough in there. On my next attempt I'll try to keep that in mind and have a more relaxed attitude about the whole thing. This is a pretty time consuming and totalizing program, make some time for yourself to do nourishing recovery type stuff (meditate, breathing exercises, chill slow walks, whatever makes you feel more at ease).

WHAT'S NEXT?
two weeks until I have a long ten day trip with no gym. Then it'll be bodyweight and running, now it'll be two weeks of easy strength, yoga, and cycling. spring is springing over here, so there will also be a lot of meandering walking. I am very curious to see what happens. Will start a log in the appropriate section to avoid clogging up the Q and A section. I found looking at other people's logs for MMS really helpful when deciding to do it and during it, I hope this helps someone in some way or another.

Edited by read the bread book on 04-08-19 12:11 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.