03-14-11 11:54 AM - Post#681226    

Anyone aware of the fact the late Ray had a few ideas of his own regarding H.I.T.? There is this rumour going on that Ray had squatted as much as 900 pounds, with Darden confirming Ray could almost certainly handle 700 odd pounds in powerlifter form.
At any rate, Ray was actually a really big, strong dude in his peak years, sometimes weighing in at a massive 270 pounds or more. He also had a reputation for using monster poundages and would warm up with up to 420 on bench press. He didn't do very slow reps either but liked to exlode on the positive, similar to Dorian Yates.
Here's a memory of Ray's training philosophy:

"He would perform anywhere from 2-7 sets per bodypart. Anyway, he decides to prove a point to the powerlifting community. He decides to go on a 6 week squat program. He squats once per week and would work up to a maximum set and then stop. He would warmup with multiple sets, progressively going heavier and heavier. He started the program at 550 lbs and in 6 weeks he claims to have squatted 905 lbs for 2 reps. He said, "...to show that it's not the Russian system; it's not that drug, this drug or anything else. It comes down to your heart, your soul, your being and what knowledge you have obtained."

03-14-11 11:58 AM - Post#681228    

P.S. It's kind of funny this is the system I use and nobody ever taught it me. I tend to squat once per week and have found it's good for strength. I like to go the first couple of sets for very high reps and high intensity and then finish with my highest weight. Like Ray, I try to "up" the weight each session so if I do 16 reps one week, I go for 17 the next time. I finish with something big.
The only down side is it can destroy you the next 2 days.

03-14-11 12:03 PM - Post#681230    

Here's a pic of Ray in shape. Not quite up there with the all time greats but certainly a good combination of mass and strength.
http://www.oocities.org/stachegallery/rmentze r01.jpg

RAY MENTZER
03-14-11 12:24 PM - Post#681232    

Mike got a perfect score in his time of posing and winning, he is one of the greats imho...Who has gotten a 300!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Mentzer

Brains and body was what he had, and a bad gene regarding his heart they say...

The rumors that flew when he and his brother died within days are still part of the problem I guess???

His run in with Arnold is also some of it, in 25 years it may get ironed out, or not...

Those who fail to see he was fantastic are the ones who I think, failed...

Edit...
I mentioned Ray as 300 wrong it was Mike!!! I should have been staying on topic...

Gary

"I live, I lift, I ache, I am." - "I don't mean to be rude, but...junk is for jerks" "No pain, no gain' isn’t a nursery rhyme, and 'only the strong survive" ...Etc... Had to put in this quote... Current Quote "Eat better, train harder, be tougher, think surer and rest morer." ~ Draper Dave Draper **** Age 73 Semper Fi... GAB

Edited by Gabster on 03-14-11 02:53 PM. Reason for edit: Wrong mention

03-14-11 12:31 PM - Post#681235    

For the record, we now know Arnold was terrific when Ray fell ill and offered his personal help and support. Arnold was also set to take part in a bodybuilding video with the two brothers but death came too quickly for this to happen.
The point is, though, Ray did have his own take on training but was less publically vocal. I tend to find some more practical, down-to-earth information on H.I.T. in a lot of Ray's ideas so he's worth researching a little.
People debate how deep those 900 pound squats were but maybe just a little over halfway.

• Gabster Said:

03-14-11 01:32 PM - Post#681249    

In the book Power Factor, written by RM/MM followers, Peter Sisco and John Little...Mentions the partial working with much heavier weights in the area of strength in all lifting...It is just one of many ways to improve strength I have found...

One of the greatest who enjoyed MM writings and teachings is Dorian Yates (I have read)...Yes he was into steroids big time he admits it and says he did it, cycling... That is one way to get big and strong pack on muscle, then you have to figure out a way to keep it...Not for me or most...

Point is for some of the extreme folks MM stuff worked...

To a degree it helps me also, I go heavy (for me) and then I go with a lot of reps...I have gained strength by doing it like that...

Now I am interested in keeping the strength and losing weight... Testosterone is a biggie in that picture also...(back to steroids)

Dave gives out a lot of good information in his e-mails and I read lately there are 600 of them here...

Time to read more of them The latest along with the Q and A, have been very helpful...

I believe his bombing is one of the biggies for intense, also you need extra rest when doing it...
So it is similar in what MM mentions IMHO...

Gary

"I live, I lift, I ache, I am." - "I don't mean to be rude, but...junk is for jerks" "No pain, no gain' isn’t a nursery rhyme, and 'only the strong survive" ...Etc... Had to put in this quote... Current Quote "Eat better, train harder, be tougher, think surer and rest morer." ~ Draper Dave Draper **** Age 73 Semper Fi... GAB

03-14-11 02:32 PM - Post#681258    

As a teenager I had the opportunity to train at Future Fitness in Torrance in 1981-82.This was Ray's gym..Ray was by far the strongest bodybuilder that I ever saw. He did squat over 900 to parallel, not below and did crazy heavy, over 800 pound good mornings. Ray had a much thicker frame than brother Mike did and handled substantial weights in all movmements..

Enjoying the Ride

03-14-11 03:18 PM - Post#681272    

• DOB500 Said:

That is a pic of Mike I believe.

It don't matter

03-14-11 04:43 PM - Post#681279    

that pic is ray they look very similar.

tough guys eat tuna!

03-14-11 04:51 PM - Post#681281    

• cajinjohn Said:

Definitely Ray but rarely did he get that lean.

Enjoying the Ride

RAY MENTZER
03-14-11 05:00 PM - Post#681282    

ray and mike were both monsters!

tough guys eat tuna!

Edited by sean.. on 03-14-11 05:00 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

03-14-11 05:27 PM - Post#681286    

genetics

My gym is my church. My sweat are my prayers. My strength is my salvation

03-15-11 08:05 AM - Post#681362    

You raise a very fundamental issue. Much as I admire Dorian, he was, as you say, deeply into the steroid cycling scene. Yes, Mike and Ray were also using steroids but the bodybuilders of the seventies and eighties weren't taking it to the extremes of Dorian's era.
Therefore, I think it's pretty pointless comparing my own HIT experience with Dorian. I'm not a pro bodybuilder, merely a layman who seeks to build muscle the most direct way.
By the way, I'm convinced it's possible to raise testosterone via heavy lifting and high reps as well as cardio work. I'm also convinced HIT works very well for natural bodybuilders because you learn to hit a muscle hard and effectively and then go home and rest to recuperate.
On a personal note, at the moment I'm trying something similar to what Ray was doing. I do squats first thing each workout so I'm fresh. I do lots of warmups which themselves are hard sets and averaging 15 reps each as I build up. I focus on higher rep work and full range, controlled reps. I only finish with a heavy couple of sets where I max out. Most importantly I force myself to do more reps than the week before.
I don't have a power rack as I prefer to feel the adrenaline fear factor a little when squatting. Racks make it seem so much easier. I think it's much easier to use huge weights in a rack.

• Gabster Said: