Laree
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Login Name: ldraper
Date Agreed to Rules: 12-09-10
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info_have_been_training_since: 12-31-79
Primary Training Purpose: Fitness and strength beats aging badly
Real Email Address: ld@davedraper.com
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(Rhymes with Marie)
Full name: Laree Draper
Gender: female
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02-18-06 07:59 PM - Post#185860
Write Bill Starr on page 81 of Strongest: "One of the best ways to overload the muscles of the legs and hips is by doing heavy half or quarter squats. What most people call a half squat is in actuality a quarter squat, so I will use the latter term. "The quarter squat allows you to overload the squatting muscles. Whereas you might only be able to full squat with 250 x 10 or 300 x 5, or 325 x 3, you will be able to use in excess of 400+ in the quarter squat. This builds a great deal of strength in the hip area, which is the center of power for any athlete." Mostly today's thinking is nix on quarter squats, am I right? Anybody here doing quarter squats?
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DamBuster
Total Posts: 2
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Bill is spot on,in that partial ROM will overload the musculature beyhond what it's accustomed to.As he says,this can help build a great deal of strength.
The flipside would be the sheer stress placed on the knee caps.
Overall the use of partial ROM can be of benefit.
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cajinjohn
Total Posts: 12495
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Not only the knee caps, but the knee joints themselves. Starr trains footballers who knees are replaced long before they reach my age. The mortality age for pro players is around 57. I am sure this comes from the beating they take. The lineman most of all. Then there is the juice that is taken off season. Also the over eating for size.
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Wicked Willie
Total Posts: 16864
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If I remember correctly, Hatfield and a few others aren't impressed with quarter squats...even though many do them. The ROM isn't sufficient to recruit many muscle fibers, especially in the quads. The result is a big time loading of the tendons and the knees. To my way of thinking, they are more of a supporting movement. I currently only do "quarter squats" as part of my warm up while squatting. The first couple no-weight sets are quarter squats, then they become progressively deeper. Wicked
"I'm in good shape for the shape I'm in."
"Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life:
no man comes to the Father, but by me." John 14:6 |
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Chris McClinch
Total Posts: 8538
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I don't think quarter squats have a big place in a good routine, but they do have a place. They're good for making your heavy squats feel relatively light, and they can get you over the fear of unracking and breaking the hips with a heavy weight. I wouldn't do them much more often than every third or fourth workout, though, and I'd use them as a finishing move.
The more I eat and the heavier I train, the better my genetics get.
If you're not paraplegic and not squatting, please kick your own ass for me."
"Do you really think that the reason most guys don't have big arms is purely because of a lack of doing curls?" --Alwyn Cosgrove
"There is only one gram of carbs in STFD and no carbs at all in STFU." --Byron Chandler
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Laree
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Primary Training Purpose: Fitness and strength beats aging badly
Real Email Address: ld@davedraper.com
Homepage: davedraper.com
(Rhymes with Marie)
Full name: Laree Draper
Gender: female
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Similar in theory, but different because of the knees, I very much like overloading the bench press when trying to push the weights up. I remember thinking I could never bench plates, but at some point I put plates on, lifted the bar off the rack and simply *held* it to get the feel of the weight. The next workout, I moved it three or four inches and within a couple of weeks, owned it. I'm totally convinced that technique -- getting accustomed to the feel of the weight -- cut months off my slow trek up. Does anybody know if Bill's thinking has changed on these?
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DanMartin
Total Posts: 20705
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In the book BS looks at quarter squats as an advanced technique. In theory, you should have done three days a week of 5 x 5 in the squat, working the 100%/80%/90% program for a considerable time. I don't have the book in front of me, but I believe a certain poundage goal is supposed to be met. In fact, considerable time working on the 10's, 3's and 5's program also comes before quarter squats. Even front squats are done before quarter squats. Keep in mind, BS's quarter squats are squats that are probably taken a bit lower then most realize. Not that far above parallel.
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TomP
Total Posts: 4887
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I do them about every other month, just one or two. I used to train with a powerlifter and he squatted some heavy poundages. I tried to unrack 405 once and couldn't. He had me do 1/4 squats periodically just to feel the weight. Now I've unracked 505. I can't 1/4 squat with it yet, but 405 doesn't feel so bad now.
| For he today that sheds his blood with mine, shall forever be my brother. |
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Wicked Willie
Total Posts: 16864
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Laree: Chuck Sipes used to do a lot of heavy supports...especially for the bench press. Also, your partial technique was documented long ago in Muscular Development in an article called "Tipping Your Way Off a Bench Press Plateau" or words to that effect. Take a weight that is heavier than your normal bench press poundage and lower it 3-5 inches...not dropping through or reaching the sticking point. True, it's not a complete movement...but you "are" working out with the heavier weight. This often can inspire you to overcome fear or a mental block about a certain poundage...and gains follow shortly. It's not recommended as a consistent training protocol...just an occasional assist to overcome a stubborn sticking point. Wicked
"I'm in good shape for the shape I'm in."
"Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life:
no man comes to the Father, but by me." John 14:6 |
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brucedl
Total Posts: 2406
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Laree,
I think there is something to be said for doing partial reps with heavy weights. It will certainly make you better able to support more weight and that's a good thing. Most of our lifts are based on our weakest area of the lift. Some people get stuck a little off the chest with benches because they have weak pecs, so they use a lighter weight that they can get moving. Obviously there is no principle written in stone that says you can't start from the top and work your way down.
I've done partial squats with up to 695 when I was squatting about 475. I probably needed better shoes cause it hurt in my feet. No pain or any problems anywhere else.
The truth is in whether it is helping you or not.
People have to do the really hard work of thinking through things and making up their minds based on first hand experience. Too often what I read online is just one person parroting what they heard someone else say they heard from some expert.
Lifting weights is hard work and there is no way around it. Lift the weights, do the work and you have a better chance of getting results than reading about it in a book or online.
Cycle it in and out of your workouts like any other lifting tool you use. Dare to be great!
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Neander
Total Posts: 7755
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Never again! They may be a suitable move for some, but for me the possible benefit is not worth the potential risk. I prefer any one of the many other squat assists and variations available. If you are capable of a full, that's full, squat with 350 and want to get used to the feel of 400...fine. Ego can become a big factor in any partial movement if you're not careful and that's someting our 350 full-squatter might want to remember when doing quarters with one or two hundred over that. The question might be: Is there anything else I could be doing with this energy that would increase my hip strength more efficiently? Here's that "tipping" article Willie mentioned... web page
Life's too short to worry about longevity.
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DanMartin
Total Posts: 20705
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Quote:
Neander said:
Never again!
They may be a suitable move for some, but for me the possible benefit is not worth the potential risk.
I prefer any one of the many other squat assists and variations available.
If you are capable of a full, that's full, squat with 350 and want to get used to the feel of 400...fine. Ego can become a big factor in any partial movement if you're not careful and that's someting our 350 full-squatter might want to remember when doing quarters with one or two hundred over that. The question might be: Is there anything else I could be doing with this energy that would increase my hip strength more efficiently?
Here's that "tipping" article Willie mentioned...
web page
Two or three years of 3 days a week squatting should, IMO, be done before the thought of quarter squats is entertained.
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Wicked Willie
Total Posts: 16864
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Neander: Thanks for the memory. That site seems to have scans of a lot of articles I remember. Wicked
"I'm in good shape for the shape I'm in."
"Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life:
no man comes to the Father, but by me." John 14:6 |
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brucedl
Total Posts: 2406
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When it comes to weight training we must all use a good dose of common sense. If you find that something doesn't work for you or for some reason feels wrong don't do it. You only have to answer to your self.
I have never been one to follow anyone blindly and I don't think anyone should be that way. We are all responsible for our own welfare. We can't blame others for our screw ups. We need to think things through and do a little experimenting. We will make mistakes along the way, but that's part of learning.
Our workouts need to be hard, but shouldn't be repulsive to us or we won't do them.
Bruce
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cparks
Total Posts: 531
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(I love the fact that all this is archived)
Maybe someone can explain this to me in a way I can finally understand. It seems obvious to me that how far you can/should go down on a squat is directly proportional to your height. The physics of a 5'6" guy squatting and a 6'2" guy (ie, me) squatting would seem to say that the farther down the taller guy goes, the more stress on the fulcrum relative to the fact that the weight is on the shoulders and is a farther distance away from that fulcrum.
Same appears to go for pushups, BPs, etc, and the arms. The shorter the arm, the farther down you can go and the longer the arm, the more stress is going to get placed on those hinges.
What, if anything, am I missing here? Why isn't it that simple?
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cajinjohn
Total Posts: 12495
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12-29-07 09:48 PM - Post#389980
Whooo way too much thinking on your part. I might suggest if you are going to do 1/4 squats. Do them in a rack off of the pins. (Bottom squats) Try this also with 1/2 squats.
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cparks
Total Posts: 531
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And here I thought I was simplifying the whole thing. Oh, well, wouldn't be the first time. My wife's always telling me I overthink things. lol....
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oi_joe
Total Posts: 356
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06-20-08 08:56 AM - Post#454280
Whooo way too much thinking on your part. I might suggest if you are going to do 1/4 squats. Do them in a rack off of the pins. (Bottom squats) Try this also with 1/2 squats.
that sounds like the best way to use them , in my opinion, at least that way, it'll be similar to the deadlift, concerning the loading on the knees.
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h k
Total Posts: 15
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08-05-08 05:21 PM - Post#469754
I'm currently doing these off the pins applying progression idea I got from Paul Anderson.
I'm squatting 3x5x440 from the pins and just weekly lowering the pins. I fit them in my schedule in this fashion:
monday: squat 1x5 full squat (intensity) + the pin squats
wednesday: front squat 3x3
friday: volume squat... 10s now for a while, soon going to change back to 5x5.
So far I'm loving them, bottom squats are pretty harsh on the whole body. Planning to keep them in my training from now on.
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Teddy Moore
Total Posts: 1105
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01-09-10 04:38 PM - Post#598976
Bringing in another author, Pavel in PTP (I think) talks about doing half lifts - basically a partial deadlift. He doesn't make it sound like a advanced technique and kind of lauds it as "old time" strength building.
"There are a lot of workouts that can get us where we want to go, but none will work without consistency." Uncle Al
" Strength is the foundation for all the other physical qualities. People have forgotten that fact... Strength is the mother quality. It should never be out of style." Pavel T.
" There are countless variations of everything on a theme. I warn about reading too much and knowing too little. Cuz, everything works and nothing works. You only need that to train." Gary John |
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garyed
Total Posts: 10226
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01-11-10 09:17 AM - Post#599289
Bringing in another author, Pavel in PTP (I think) talks about doing half lifts - basically a partial deadlift. He doesn't make it sound like a advanced technique and kind of lauds it as "old time" strength building.
I do a partial dealift usually around 585 lbs or so... 
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Teddy Moore
Total Posts: 1105
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01-12-10 09:23 AM - Post#599531
I have used them too. I don't consider them an advanced lift. You may need more body/ form awareness (esp for the 1/4 squat)but that would be about it.
"There are a lot of workouts that can get us where we want to go, but none will work without consistency." Uncle Al
" Strength is the foundation for all the other physical qualities. People have forgotten that fact... Strength is the mother quality. It should never be out of style." Pavel T.
" There are countless variations of everything on a theme. I warn about reading too much and knowing too little. Cuz, everything works and nothing works. You only need that to train." Gary John |
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