08-17-12 05:31 PM - Post#743174    

Has Pavel left the RKC to do his own thing? I just saw some murmerings on facebook, anybody know?

Owen Brown, a Biomedical Scientist from Pontyclun, Wales.

08-17-12 05:50 PM - Post#743177    

Yes, I do.

This should be interesting. I will still honor my commitments, but...

This is funny. I posted a thing about the homeless being picked on by a Crossfit facility and got emails telling me I should publicly thank Greg Glassman. I honestly didn't learn shit from Greg, but I did from the community...lots of great people.

Compared to Ralph Maughan and Dick Notmeyer, Pavel (and my brothers...including the weird one in San Mateo) would be the ONLY person who made me stand up and reconsider literally everything I know. So, for me:

Thank you, Pavel. This should go on that facebook thingee...

Daniel John Just handing down what I was handed down... Make a Difference. Live. Love. Laugh. Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude) Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk. Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth. Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights. Reread great books. Say thank you

08-17-12 07:16 PM - Post#743185    

No murmuring's here:

http://everythingrkc.wordpress.com/2012/08/17/letter-fro m-pavel-tsatsouline-regar ding-the-future-of-...

Onward and upward!

Pavel and RKC split?
08-17-12 07:45 PM - Post#743188    

Link to Facebook thingy? I have held off getting the RKC (money mostly) but I had issues with some things and people associated with it. I know things, about stuff, about people (Mafia tone there lol) :-)

Coach Dan, as things progress can you assist with some of us interested in following you and Pavel staying in the loop? I would like to possibly do HIS RKC.

I am needing to make a career change and I am thinking things just happen to be lining up that maybe some certifications etc (esp. with this change) could add to what has been in the back of my mind for awhile... (Other than hot air..)

Edited by Brandell on 08-17-12 07:49 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

08-17-12 08:01 PM - Post#743189    

Doesn't this mean that RKC ceases to exist? From the letter Stoney posted it sounds like they just lost their license to teach/use Pavel's material.

Seems like a massive screw up by DD. They aren't much without Pavel.

I'm curious to learn what the basis of the split was. Brandell makes it sound like ethical problems.

08-17-12 08:14 PM - Post#743190    

Whoa I personally don't know anything. I said "I" have never gotten my certification because "I" had issues with some things and people etc.

I do not know what is going on, I have no inside info....Nada.

08-17-12 08:47 PM - Post#743196    

The whole tone and approach of the RKC system always reminded me of martial arts schools. Multiple grading levels you have to pay a lot of cash for, lots of worship of the top guy, etc.

What happens with martial arts schools is that as soon as they reach a certain age, others decide to split off and form their own schools. They give as reasons disagreements about the best approach to the martial art, but the truth is usually it's just ego, everyone wants to be Head Sensei.

Add in large stacks of money to the relationship, and it becomes even more complicated and nasty.

Life's too simple for some people, they have to make it more complicated for themselves.

None of this is to downplay the contributions of individual RKC people, or Pavel, etc. It is to say that when you create systems for people to be in, things can get messy.

Athletic Club East Strength in numbers

08-17-12 09:00 PM - Post#743197    

Not to speculate or be a gossiping old hag but...

"Beyond a critical point within a finite space, freedom diminishes as numbers increase. This is as true of humans in the finite space of a planetary ecosystem as it is of gas molecules in a sealed flask. The human question is not how many can possibly survive within the system, but what kind of existence is possible for those who do survive."
- Pardot Kynes, First Planetologist of Arrakis

"...remember that growth itself can produce unfavorable conditions unless treated with extreme care." (Kynes to Lady Jessica)

http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

08-17-12 09:06 PM - Post#743198    

This will be another sit on the couch with a big bowl of popcorn moment.

We will know more eventually. Until then, feel free to wildly surmise.

Will this be as big as the Martin-Lewis split?

Burton-Taylor second divorce?

Carrot Top bulking?

But, who knows?

08-17-12 09:12 PM - Post#743199    

• Kyle Aaron Said:

There is nothing wrong with Martial arts Systems. Most schools are good as well, and YES there is ONE instructor/ Sensei at a school. Once someone develops then they need to move on.

See the ego comes in when the instructor forgets he / she should want the student to develop to the point they move on and gain additional growth somewhere else.

Pavel and RKC split?
08-17-12 09:18 PM - Post#743200    

• Gary John Said:

ROFL!

I put it between "Dan John holding a submachine gun" and "Carrot Top bulking" for expected impact factor.

What's more interesting is, possibly, is the impact that this may have in

a) the value of extant RKC certs, relative to previous marketability or (more importantly) any new cert product

and

b) what sales will do of RKC certs between now and July 1 2013 - that is a heck of a lead time on shutting down a cert program IMO.

oh, and

c) what people in the position to care about either thing will do or say :)

Totally agree about the popcorn thing.

Edited by conwict2 on 08-17-12 09:21 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

08-17-12 10:00 PM - Post#743201    

• Gary John Said:

Yeah... probably not THAT big...

http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

08-17-12 10:47 PM - Post#743205    

When Boris was talking about Gases, finite space, critical points etc. I thought he was talking about farts :-)

08-17-12 11:58 PM - Post#743209    

I was kind of jaw-on-the-floor on this one. I know this year I've been kind of "out of the loop" working on other things, but I guess I was more out of the loop than I thought.

I know that a lot can change in 10 years. Pavel is clearly a genius and I'm sure what ever is next will be amazing.

Dude just googled Carrot Top, and he is YOKED. Where can I get my Carrot Top Certification (CTC)?

08-18-12 12:52 AM - Post#743214    

I wish I could share my emails, texts and voicemails.

I really like Pavel and this whole thing is good for a lot of people I think.

Daniel John Just handing down what I was handed down... Make a Difference. Live. Love. Laugh. Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude) Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk. Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth. Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights. Reread great books. Say thank you

08-18-12 04:40 AM - Post#743217    

I will do (within reasons)what Dan John, Pavel, Andrew Read and Dan Martin say and give it time.

My training log

08-18-12 04:40 AM - Post#743218    

I just hope this isn't gonna hurt the little guys too much, kettlebell fever, centaur gym etc.

Also hope nobody is regretted getting an RKC tatoo....

Owen Brown, a Biomedical Scientist from Pontyclun, Wales.

08-18-12 08:37 AM - Post#743233    

• Dan John Said:

In Coach We trust :-). We will just keep training and wait to see hit all goes.

08-18-12 10:03 AM - Post#743240    

Pure speculation on my part:

But I wonder if Pavel wants to branch out into something more "comprehensive" for fitness, as opposed to being limited to just kettlebells/RKC. I would imagine Dragon Door has a huge cash cow with the RKC and kettlebell product lineup and basically have Pavel pigeon holed into it.

I've seen a handful of interviews with Pavel and he comes across as extremely intelligent, funny and does not seem to play off the "evil" Russian as much as in some of the DVD's. Also, if you look at his writings, pretty diversified: kettlebells, barbell training, bodyweight training, mobility, etc.

It would be interesting to see what he comes up with. Perhaps some alternative to Crossfit, something without the unsustainable intensity, perhaps something......."easy"? It could be something very interesting.

Again pure speculation on my part.

John Mc

John McDonough Rolling, Bouncing, Crashing And Occassionally Getting Into The Flow On The Singletrack Of Life http://www.iamcurious.net

08-18-12 10:17 AM - Post#743244    

I will have nothing to say on this.

Mark it Zero.

08-18-12 10:36 AM - Post#743250    

John, I might argue the opposite. If you look at what we sell, in terms of DVDs and books, at the RKC, it is mostly (I love the term "mostly") Chinese secrets of medicine and martial arts, "fit" stuff, corrective stuff...this and that. At the SJS cert, I'm not sure we had Easy Strength...at the Easy Strength workshop, we didn't have enough, I know that.

In my case, I have been asking for a gathering again so we can clean up the system issues from the HKC to RKC to RKC II...instead, "Body Hero" and more of the convict stuff. Primal move looks exactly like Erwan's work in some ways (leaves) and Convict Conditioning and Naked Warrior certainly battle the same niche. In my area, we are now offering a barbell cert, but I am not included, again...a meeting or gathering is needed.

None of this is negative, I'm just trying to show how the flow of "stuff," and to be honest, John Walsh's post on this made the rounds, seemed to be a lot, but with a "this and that" message. For me, I am there for the "School of Strength," the other materials are fine and often illuminating but I have to keep a narrow beam on how I train people and my niche in the industry.

Daniel John Just handing down what I was handed down... Make a Difference. Live. Love. Laugh. Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude) Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk. Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth. Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights. Reread great books. Say thank you

08-18-12 11:37 AM - Post#743258    

Lets look at the facts; Pavel is the heart of the RKC. No disrespect to JDC, but people sign up for the RKC Certs, and buy the products, because of the material presented by Pavel, or the RKC's he has trained. I would guess that the vast majority of the upper level RKC's will leave when Pavel does. Granted, some may stay with JDC, seeing the chance to become a Sr.RKC, etc. considering the vacancies left, by those that will stay loyal to Pavel.

But, only time will tell.

My Training Log

08-18-12 11:45 AM - Post#743261    

The fitness world is a huge place - and there are plenty of "niches" to go around. Trying to fit your square head into a round hole will eventually give you a headache. This has to go down as one of the most successful pairings in the industry - but if its time to go - its best to do just that. Maybe some fresh ideas and projects will now come from both sides when they feel free to explore further.

08-18-12 12:00 PM - Post#743265    

At times like this we can only ask one question: What will Dan John do?

Mark it Zero.

08-18-12 12:14 PM - Post#743268    

I think that is a no brainer!!

Then again, he COULD stay with DD, and introduce a new DD-approved Shake Weight Cert, and become very rich! ;)

My Training Log

08-18-12 12:23 PM - Post#743270    

WWDD?

Danny will honor his commitments and do the best he can. He has two guiding concepts:

Make a difference.
Never Let Go.

The answer is in there.

Daniel John Just handing down what I was handed down... Make a Difference. Live. Love. Laugh. Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude) Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk. Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth. Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights. Reread great books. Say thank you

08-18-12 12:45 PM - Post#743273    

My 2 cents,

WDJWDIWDaDMoc.

Whatever Dan John will do, I will Do;and Dan Martin, of course?
(speaking metaphorically, because I don't think I can do 10% of what DJ does)

Change is the only constant.

Now, if Dan John Unleashed becomes the tyrannical ruler of the world, then we have no choice.

I have a well worn path to this forum and DJ's blog, so I am good.

With gratitude,
Bart

Typing with wrists the size of Tokyo

08-18-12 01:42 PM - Post#743275    

I am just going to wait and follow coach.

08-18-12 02:23 PM - Post#743286    

It will be good I'm sure of it.
Pavel is the teacher and John was his pitch man /publisher (no disrespect to John) and they worked well as a team up to this point.If they differences and can't resolve them it's time to move on.Pavel has the support of many fine people behind him.Check out Facebook as many RKC's have changed their profile pictures with them and Pavel in a show of that support.
Im waiting for great things to happen myself.

Pavel and RKC split?
08-18-12 02:40 PM - Post#743288    

Just friends,
lovers no more

Just friends, but
not like before.

Dan said shit and I'm telling!

Life's too short to worry about longevity.

08-18-12 02:49 PM - Post#743294    

I'm interested to see what all parties involved will come up with after the split. I expect good things will be developed by all.

"All things excellent are as difficult as they are rare." - Spinoza Not all questions need to be answered. Training Log

08-18-12 03:45 PM - Post#743298    

The products are part of the issue, Andrew. I have had a LOT ( a LOT!) concerning this Primal Move and IP. I never got into the discussion, but when you look at some of it, well...let's put this off.

I think we walked away from strength. Everyone knows I think that, so it is not talking out of school.

Daniel John Just handing down what I was handed down... Make a Difference. Live. Love. Laugh. Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude) Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk. Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth. Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights. Reread great books. Say thank you

08-18-12 05:04 PM - Post#743301    

Things are getting kind of heated it seems on the DD Forums, not unexpected. Over the next few months we will see the true nature of certain people.

08-18-12 05:15 PM - Post#743302    

About half of what I saw in the Primal Move promo video is Ginastica Natural®

08-18-12 05:35 PM - Post#743303    

Dan I am surprised you consider yourself a niche player ..maybe I misinterepreted you (it is one of my strengths)

granted I have never been to a cert and you have never been to the magical land of Oz,

but if your back ground was any broader you would be dead flat ..

your "niche" is that you can have an expereiced opinion on anything in the game..

you may not want to mess up other peoples pools, but you really can go where you want..

"We all overtrain" Pat Casey to George Frenn

08-18-12 06:00 PM - Post#743307    

Pontyclun - I spoke with the McIlroys and James Breese of KB Fever yesterday. We're all good. For now, no need to panic. There's still too much that needs tying up - there is almost a year before any of this actually takes place and a lot can change between now and then.

Josh, the PM stuff vs GN...There are similarities, but Peter has gone way beyond GN. I had played around with GN for about ten years thanks to being frequently injured at BJJ and can honestly say that there is little in the current version of PM that is similar to GN other than being on the ground. It's a really cool way to address the bottom four of the FMS, a natural step between straigth corrective and a return to normal training, much like Indian Clubs for the shoulder mobility test in FMS. (I saw your post on FB too about GN and your wrist - done right there's very little you'll actually have your hands on the ground in GN weight bearing so you should be ok).

08-18-12 06:10 PM - Post#743310    

Totally my bad then. Just looked very similar to me.

Good to know about not too much pressure on the wrist. I'll start playing with it for real, and I might hit you up with some questions if I hit a block.

Pavel and RKC split?
08-18-12 06:38 PM - Post#743311    

The thing I want to see is how Pavel will be dealing with the 'If you aren't certified you aren't doing it right/ Don't know what you are doing' thing.

I know how to do a TGU, Brett Jones confirmed it and my snatches and swings back in 06'. I thought I would check with an un named RKC a couple months back to see what the deal is these days. He flat told me I would fail the TGU at the current RKC, and started nit picking where my knee was in relation to my hand, in relation to my foot etc.

Really? Guess what? 90% of the people an RKC Trains doesn't give a rats butt about being that technical or anal about the technique. You can do a 'correct' TGU without all that micro detail. You can also teach someone to do it without all that BS.

It is like our Aussie friend tried to convey, its like many Martial arts organizations (not schools). I am a legit 5th Dan in TKD and Hapkido. I have earned my 4th Degree in American Kenpo and was certified by the Former American Kenpo SR council. But in the early 90's while at a tournament a WTF (not 'what the f...' but World TKD Fed..) TKD 'master' Told me I wasn't legitimate because I hadn't went through the WTF.

My response? 'I have 5 stripes on my belt, if you don't feel it is legit, feel free to try and take my belt off me and see how legit I am'. Funny, he never tried and pretty much got ran from the tourney by many other 'Non legit' blackbelts.

It is that 'If you aren't certified by us you know nothing' BS that needs to change.

I know this as FACT, the RKC process and even Pavel has been enhanced by Dan Johns joining them. I agree Dan has learned a ton from Pavel, but Bottom line it goes both ways AND Dan John was a GREAT coach, trainer etc. long before getting certified by that organization.

Off soap box now...

Edited by Brandell on 08-18-12 06:41 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

Re: Pavel and RKC split?
08-18-12 06:52 PM - Post#743312    

I don't usually look at that DD site, but now . . .
the next while should prove who's truly "certifiable".

Life's too short to worry about longevity.

Re: Pavel and RKC split?
08-18-12 07:16 PM - Post#743315    

• Neander Said:

LOL yeah its gonna get good *Joins Gary with Popcorn...*

08-18-12 07:56 PM - Post#743318    

Obviously I think it's going to be interesting, too -- we all do. Hopefully everything will work out for all parties. With that in mind, let's not get gleeful over the watching. That's sure to come back and bite more than a few people over the next months, too. Everybody should take a step back and let the involved people settle things, and hopefully that will begin to happen over the weekend.

08-18-12 08:08 PM - Post#743319    

I dig Pavel's style.

Mark it Zero.

08-18-12 08:20 PM - Post#743321    

• Laree Said:

Its not glee per say, more like NASCAR Wrecks or watching a train wreck happen. You just can't really help but watch. Nothing malicious intended.

08-18-12 08:36 PM - Post#743323    

best of luck to all involved. at the end of the day I'm sure everyone will be free to do what they think best.

Tony's reviews: http://www.otpproductreview.com/

08-18-12 09:02 PM - Post#743326    

• DanMartin Said:

It's going to involve fish oils, I know that.

Oh, and seat belts.

You have been selected for TERMINATION.

08-18-12 09:03 PM - Post#743327    

• T-800 Said:

Floss. You forgot flossing.

08-18-12 09:07 PM - Post#743328    

• Brandell Said:

Showing up, after taking your fish oil and flossing, with your seat belt on. Lifting heavy objects might also be involved.

"All things excellent are as difficult as they are rare." - Spinoza Not all questions need to be answered. Training Log

08-18-12 09:37 PM - Post#743332    

• ARobb Said:

Showing up, after taking your fish oils and flossing, with your seat belt on. Lifting heavy objects and never letting go.

Now we just need to figure out how to make this a 250-page ebook.

You have been selected for TERMINATION.

08-18-12 10:44 PM - Post#743336    

A trainee should be able to list all they need concerning rest, exercise and diet on one side of three 3 x 5 index cards.

Mark it Zero.

08-19-12 01:02 AM - Post#743338    

• DanMartin Said:

I meant what you guys say about training.

My training log