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Display Name Post: What I'm thinking        (Topic#17902)
conwict
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Total Posts: 572
07-12-08 05:43 PM - Post#461885    



Here's a list of what I have learned/thought recently, followed by my current program.

-I need to overhead squat every single cycle at least once per week. There is no substitute. It even builds my quads surprisingly well. Overhead squats plus single leg work (not lunges though) are about all I need for legs...power versions of O lifts are great too.

-I need to hit weaknesses, whenever they arise, but not forget to maintain strengths.

-Nothing has ever improved my physique more than widening and thickening my deltoids.

-Touch training works very well for getting body parts to grow. There is a book on it, but basically you use this for upper body exercises and touch whatever muscle you're trying to isolate firmly. You have to contract the muscle as hard as possible and squeeze, but keep the rep very smooth. Perfect for lateral raises and curls, if you ever decide to add them. The lateral raises gave breathtaking results.

-I am satisfied with my progress thus far, and agree with DJ's recent advice to follow a very strict by the numbers program every once and a while and "mix it up" the rest of the time. Some recent numbers I'm proud of:

Chin-up @ 205lb BW with 75 pounds added...2 reps
Strict military press...145x5, 155x2 or 3
Power Snatch 6x5 with 145
Front squat 135...28 reps in 90 seconds (paused once briefly)
Overhead squat 145 3x3 (although I have done better in the past, I didn't include it much until very recently again)

-Bench press is next to useless for me. My best was 235x3 but it just doesn't seem to make me grow or get much stronger. I get a lot more from MPs, pushups, and dips.

-It's a good idea not to get fat while bulking, and not to lose muscle while leaning out.

-I don't need a ton of protein to grow or get stronger. 200 grams tops but I do get more sometimes, coincidentally.

-The simpler the means you can use to achieve a goal, the better the results

-Consistency is the key to strength, and strength is very specific at least for me (although obviously there is carry over)

-My only "Must" supplement is Carlson's fish oil, but Surge and Biotest's metabolic drive complete are also great.

The program I'm doing currently...

It's based on DJ's idea for battling fat for 28 days. I am fairly lean but want to get very lean. I've been doing this for a week.

-Every morning, wake up early and take 3g vitamin C and drink coffee, then go for a 45-60 min walk

-Consume half of the day's calories at breakfast in a reasonably clean fashion. I'm eating 2400 daily, so for me this is a 1200 calorie breakfast.

-Other meal sizes in order of consumption: 450, 350, 250, 150. They get more fibrous as the day goes on. Fruit and/or veggies at each one.

-Go to the gym 3 days a week.

Do 5x5 overhead squats (Monday), 5x5 chins (Wednesday) or 5x5 snatch-grip deads with a shrug (Friday)

Follow this with a 15 min "PR zone" of the following complex, performed explosively with 115 lb

Power clean
Deadlift
Bent over row
Hang clean
Front squat
Overhead press (lower behind head)
Good morning
Back squat
Overhead press

--Just do as many of that complex as possible in 15 minutes. I got 10 or 11 very easily last session. The idea isn't to kill yourself, just to progress each session smoothly.

15 minutes of interval training on whatever you like, 15 seconds hard and 40 seconds easy (easy time will get shorter)

15 minutes of steady state cardio

Let me know what you think. I just want to maintain strength and muscle and lose 10-15 pounds of fat this month. Haven't hopped on a scale after the first week but visually the results are there!

Thanks
Conwict
 
conwict
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07-12-08 11:43 PM - Post#461970    



Oh yeah, the 15 minute "zones" (Complex/interval/steady state) are a Cosgrove idea.
 
Dan John
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07-13-08 11:19 AM - Post#462049    



Aren't the zones Charles Staley;s idea?

This is excellent. 1200 calorie breakfast was the only thing I questioned, though, but give it a whirl. I like the honesty here and the use of the brain as a training tool.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
conwict
*
Total Posts: 572
07-13-08 11:59 AM - Post#462064    



Dan, thanks!

I appreciate the comment. I am just trying the breakfast idea, and it doesn't seem to be impeding me at all. Don't think of it as "1200 calorie breakfast," just think of it as "half the day's calories at breakfast." For me 2400 is low enough for fat loss. I was eating 4000 as a "lean bulk" recently...in fact I was actually getting leaner as I bulked! So I can definitely handle some high calorie meals.

Here is the Cosgrove article that I based this off of:

http://www.t-nation.com/article/bodybuilding/ the_last_10_pounds

Who, in turn, loosely based the complex EDT zone off of Staley's writing. I couldn't get online when I wrote up the program, so I came up with my own complex, which is actually better than the one there I think.
 
Dan John
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07-13-08 12:05 PM - Post#462068    



Here you go:

The Last 10 Pounds
30 Days to Abs Without Changing Your Diet
by Alwyn Cosgrove


Warning: This program sucks. You'll hate me. You'll be miserable. And you'll try to Dr. Phill yourself into not doing it. But, it will work.

Well, there you are — 200 pounds and 12% bodyfat. People are patting you on the back for your progress, but you're just happy you found your penis again. And just this morning, you almost saw your abs. Almost.

But trouble's a brewin'. Judgment Day is coming. It could be a class reunion, July 4th, Labor Day, or just some pool party where you're forced to lose the shirt. Are you ready for the reveal?

Nah, you're close. But not quite there.



Why You Don't Have Abs... Yet

Realistically, most people will need to be closer to 7 or 8% bodyfat to see their abs. A few lucky SOB's can see theirs at higher percentages, but you need to get much leaner than you think. Are those tears?

Anyway, assuming no muscle loss, our Mr. Hypothetical is looking at dropping 8 to 10 pounds of fat.

But, it's the last 8 to 10. You know, those they'll-be-around-after-c ockroaches pounds. And we're going to do it in 30 days.

To exterminate two pounds per week, you need to make a further deficit in your calories. It really is that simple. But don't confuse simple with easy — you're going to work.


Big Black needs longer than 30 days.


Breaking Out Every Trick in the Book

I'm going to make some assumptions:

1. You're between 10 to 12% bodyfat.

2. You're lifting heavy weights regularly.

3. Your weight is currently at maintenance (i.e. you aren't losing or gaining right now).

4. You have the time to add activity to your current schedule. Everything you're doing activity wise needs to stay the same. We're adding to your activity levels to ramp up the fat dump.

5. You're ready to suffer.

When TC and I first talked, we kicked around the idea of training for fat loss without changing your diet one bit. It's possible, and this program will do just that. But, it'll work faster if you do clean up the dirty dieting.

If you read my previous article, The Hierarchy of Fat Loss, you'll remember that nutrition is so powerful that it comprised one and two on my list. You can't out-train the world's crappiest diet.

Skipping the Big Mac, the feed trough of fries, and silo of soda saves you about 1,400 calories and takes zero seconds. Eating them and trying to burn off the calories will require hours of unspeakable deeds.


So, despite my promise to TC — rather than ignore the obvious first step — here's what I recommend:

1. Establish how many calories you're currently consuming.

2. Cut 20% or 500 calories (whichever is lower).

Assuming a current maintenance intake of 2,800 calories for our 200 pounder (14 x bodyweight) — 20% is 560. If that was you, you'd cut 500 calories from your diet. You're now at 2,300 calories.

Normally, caloric deficits are made from carbs or fats — and only carbs or fats. We keep protein at epic proportions to maintain muscle.

However, this is an extreme approach to slice off that last bit of lard. So instead of keeping protein at the standard one gram per pound of bodyweight, keep protein at one gram per pound of lean body mass (LBM).

Remember, you're not trying to build muscle at this time, just maintain it. So for our 200 pounder at 12%, 176 grams of protein is enough for now. You can go this low in the short term without risking any muscle loss. Slightly more is better, of course, but 176 grams would be the minimum for our guinea pig. This may give you a little leeway to keep your sanity (for now).

However, if you do decide to cut some calories from protein, once you hit one gram per pound of LBM, that's it. Any further deficit needs to come from somewhere else.

At 176 grams of protein and 2,300 calories, we're looking at a 30% protein diet.

Based on pure numbers, cutting 500 calories should strip another pound of fat per week from your body.


Calorie Progressions

After seven days, assess your fat loss. You better have lost around 2 to 2.5 pounds. Give yourself this same gut check every seven days.


If fat loss ever drops to less than two pounds a week, cut another 10 to 20% of calories from your diet (without cutting protein) to kickstart further losses.

Hopefully you don't have to adjust, but here's what you'll do:

If you lost two pounds since the last weigh-in, there'll be no changes. Otherwise, cut another 20% or 500 calories (again, whichever is lower). In our example, we were at 2,300 calories — 20% is 460. Boom, our increasingly cranky bastard is now down to 1,840 calories. Keeping protein at 176 grams, the diet is now at about 40% protein.

This step is usually unnecessary. I've never seen anyone have to go this low. But with D-Day rapidly approaching, consider this some advanced trouble shooting.

Warning: Cutting more calories than necessary won't make the plan work better. Now read that again. It's kinda important.


Metabolism Boosting: Every Bit Helps

Since we're talking about fat loss without a dietary shock and awe, we need to look at anything and everything that might increase metabolism.

A lot has been written about cold water intake and fat loss. But does it do a damn thing? Well, let's look at what the science guys say.

One study showed a 24% increase in resting metabolic rate (RMR) for 60 minutes after consuming a half liter of ice water (1). While a second found a RMR increase of 30% after drinking the cold stuff (2).

But don't get excited yet.

Another study found a miniscule increase of 4.5% (3). Weak.

So here's the deal: We have three studies, all showing some increase in metabolism after drinking cold water. They just disagree on how much. Even at the top end, we're only looking at around 25 extra calories burned for every half liter of ice water. Not a hell of a lot. But we'll take it.


Ice ice, baby.

Okay, since you haven't started the workout and we're still friends, I think this recommendation, even with the research, is stretching it. But, if the diet stays, you need to burn every damn calorie you can. Since it definitely won't hurt — and mightwork — you're going to do it.

Start by slamming a half liter of ice cold water as soon as you wake up. Do that every two hours.

And even if it isn't a metabolism magic trick, you'll still burn a couple hundred calories running to the bathroom after every sip.


Fat-Stripping Supplements

By now I think you understand that the goal is fat loss, so pop two capsules of HOT-ROX Extreme twice a day. Take them as soon as you wake up and no later than 1 PM. If I take them past that, I'm not sleeping. And you won't like me when I'm not sleeping.

In terms of a PM supplement, go ahead and take an additional full serving of Carbolin-19.


Aside from the numerous benefits of consuming fish oil, you can't pick up anything health related and not run into research showing that fish oil enhances fat loss.

Additionally, Dr. John Berardi has mentioned that preliminary data from the University of Western Ontario shows that fish oil supplementation increases LBM (during non-dieting conditions, obviously), increases basal metabolic rate by up to 400 calories a day, decreases inflammation, and improves the ratio of carbs to fats oxidized (sparing carbs and burning fat).

The skinny on fish oil: It won't hurt, and it might help. Do it.


The Metabolic Workout

This is where you start to hate me. It's now time to ramp up your activity levels. I'm assuming you're already pounding the weights and the pavement, but here's what you're going to add to your routine.

The Metabolic Workout consists of three zones that combine metabolic resistance training, interval training, and steady-state cardio. It's to be performed three to four times per week.

If I can't hear you cussin' me out three states over, you're not trying.

Zone 1: The 15-Minute Complex

This is done EDT style (everyone thank Charles Staley).

Perform the following in a complex of one rep each with your hands never leaving the bar:

• Deadlift

• Romanian deadlift

• Bent-over row

• High pull

• Power clean

• Front squat

• Push press

• Back squat

That's eight reps. Or all of your fingers if you lost a fight with a chainsaw.

Rest as long as you want, but perform as many rounds as you can in 15 minutes. Start with a goal of getting ten rounds done. Select a load that's challenging, but one that makes it easy to complete the set. Remember, we aren't using this to out-lift Marius Pudzianowski. We're using this to break through to that next level of leanness.


Progressions:

Week 1: For each workout in week one, try to get at least an extra round done.

Week 2: Add five pounds to the bar and perform two reps of each (16 reps per round). Work on increasing the total rounds performed each workout.
Week 3: Add five pounds to the bar and perform three reps of each (24 reps per round). Work on increasing the total rounds performed each workout.
Week 4: Add five pounds to the bar again and go back to performing only one rep of each (8 reps per round). Work on increasing the total rounds performed each workout.

Zone 2: 15 Minutes of Intervals

For the intervals, go wild on the cardio equipment of your choice.

Week 1: 60 seconds of intense work, 120 seconds of recovery (but still moving). Perform five rounds.

Week 2: 60 seconds of work, 105 seconds of recovery. Repeat until the 15 minutes are up.

Week 3: 60 seconds of work, 90 seconds of recovery. Perform six rounds in 15 minutes.

Week 4: 60 seconds of work, 75 seconds of recovery. Repeat until the 15 minutes are up.

Zone 3: Steady-State Cardio

At this point, don't increase the intensity, just the duration. So, keep these hamster wheel sessions at 75% of your max heart rate.

Week 1: 15 minutes

Week 2: 20 minutes

Week 3: 25 minutes

Week 4: 30 minutes



Increasing Non-Exercise Physical Activity

NEPA stands for "non-exercise physical activity." I've never been sure where NEPA ends and exercise begins, but the basic idea is to move as much as possible. In a nutshell, go have an active lifestyle outside of the gym. No, throwing the video game controller across the room and fetching it after you've hit the bottom of the Doritos doesn't cut it.

There's a balance, though. I've seen people make the mistake of stepping up their training so aggressively in order to lose fat that they're too tired to even look at nudie pictures. Don't let this happen to you.

But, every little bit counts if you're reluctant to change your diet. Thus, you need to add some NEPA activity every single day.

NEPA walks are also one of the cornerstones of success with the Velocity Diet. So starting tomorrow, and every day for the next 30 days, you're going to add in a brisk walk — rain or shine.

You can do it on a treadmill. You can do it around your neighborhood. You can wear a weighted vest. You can do it fasted. You can even do it naked (but not in myneighborhood). Just get it done.

Week 1: 45 minutes per day

Week 2: 50 minutes per day

Week 3: 55 minutes per day

Week 4: 60 minutes per day

If you or the nerd next door does the math, in the next four weeks you'll have performed an additional 24.5 hours of activity.


You've Been Warned

Most will think increasing fat loss without changing your diet is crazy talk. But with this plan, it's doable. That is, if you have the tenacity. So, do you?

I'll leave you to think about a quote from Dan John:

"Fat loss is an all-out war. Give it 28 days — only 28 days. Attack it with all you have. It's not a lifestyle choice; it's a battle. Lose fat and then get back into moderation. There's another one for you: moderation. Revelation says it best: 'You are lukewarm and I shall spit you out.' Moderation is for sissies."

Now get after it.


References

1. Boschmann M et al. Water drinking induces thermogenesis through osmosensitive mechanisms. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2007 Aug;92(8):3334-7

2. Boschmann M, et al. Water-induced thermogenesis. J Clin Endocrinol Metab.2003 Dec;88(12):6015-9

3. Brown CM, Dulloo AG, Montani JP. Water-induced thermogenesis reconsidered: the effects of osmolality and water temperature on energy expenditure after drinking. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2006 Sep;91(9):3598-602. Epub 2006 Jul 5

© 1998 — 2008 Testosterone, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
Dan John
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Total Posts: 12292
07-13-08 12:07 PM - Post#462071    



I'll leave you to think about a quote from Dan John:

"Fat loss is an all-out war. Give it 28 days — only 28 days. Attack it with all you have. It's not a lifestyle choice; it's a battle. Lose fat and then get back into moderation. There's another one for you: moderation. Revelation says it best: 'You are lukewarm and I shall spit you out.' Moderation is for sissies."

Now get after it.


Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
LittleJohnnyNewland
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Total Posts: 18
07-13-08 12:13 PM - Post#462076    



Coach Dan,

I've been following your stuff on t-nation and danjohn.org. I have gotten interested in learning the o-lifts. I work out at golds in sugarhouse, and of course no one there does the o-lifts. I watched the vid on your website. Where in SLC do people train the o-lifts? Is there a club? Will you or your trainees be competing in the utah open in October?
thx
john newland
salt lake boy
supporting Dan John's Web Empire, and playing with kettlebells, since 7/31/10


 
conwict
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Total Posts: 572
07-13-08 02:04 PM - Post#462113    



What he suggested in the article is slightly more intense than what I am actually doing. I definitely cut down the lifting before the 3 zones. But it's working. I recommend anyone interested to give it a try.

John Newland, don't know what to tell ya (;
 
Dan John
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Total Posts: 12292
07-13-08 02:53 PM - Post#462123    



John, for God's sakes, call me. I live in Murray.

Seriously, folks, I am a real human being. Sure, I eat people, but only when they cross the bridge.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
Dan John
*
Total Posts: 12292
07-13-08 02:54 PM - Post#462125    



I think this is a great thread...an article and a very intelligent response to an article. This little forum is becoming very popular because of this kind of thing...
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
conwict
*
Total Posts: 572
07-13-08 03:07 PM - Post#462130    



Another lesson I learned is that unless you have daily access to a DEXA scanner, there is a lot more to body recomp than "add x pounds of muscle" or "lose y pounds of fat."

Chris Shugart, of all people, touches on this on T-nation...

There is a definite X-factor, and probably more than one: muscle tonus, vascularity, posture, amount of sleep affecting hormonal level, water retention, and silly stuff like muscle bellies...

Lots of people go for a certain look and think they can get it by losing and gaining this and that, and that isn't what it's about. You've just got to be realistic. NOT every 6 foot male looks the same at 200 pounds and 10% body fat. Sorry. I happen to carry a lot of weight in my thighs, some in my glutes, and lots in my lower and upper back. I look and feel solid, but I'm not a bodybuilder.

That's that. Can I make slow yet significant changes to my body? Absolutely.

One of the reasons (besides the fact I'm stalking Dan John) that I'm here instead of T-nation is because there is a totalistic, closed-minded mentality there. Everyone wants to jump on a bandwagon and say "It worked for Dave Tate" or "It worked for Arnold" or "This guy is so full of crap"...or "Just gain 20 pounds and get back to me."

I like advice that comes from personal experience. Empiricism is good too, and so is personal experience from highly successful people like the aforementioned, but I've got to figure out WHAT WORKS FOR ME...and I'm not Tate or Schwarzenegger or Louie Simmons or even Dan John. And I like my way of doing things.

The "in your face" attitude on T-nation gets old to me very fast. Give it a break.
 
conwict
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Total Posts: 572
07-13-08 03:11 PM - Post#462132    



By the way, that attitude isn't a reflection on the contributors or owners of the site. I am referring to the forums. I really like the Biotest line of products and use it exclusively, and appreciate Dan John and the other contributors.

However, something about the site - perhaps the celebration of testicularity - has amassed the biggest group of trolls and no-lifers I've ever seen.
 
LittleJohnnyNewland
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Total Posts: 18
07-13-08 04:30 PM - Post#462148    



  • Dan John Said:
John, for God's sakes, call me. I live in Murray.

Seriously, folks, I am a real human being. Sure, I eat people, but only when they cross the bridge.



yeah, sure, but you might speak to me in a cross tone of voice and upset me...

j
supporting Dan John's Web Empire, and playing with kettlebells, since 7/31/10


 
Laree
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07-14-08 09:19 PM - Post#462638    



  • conwict Said:
-Touch training works very well for getting body parts to grow. There is a book on it, but basically you use this for upper body exercises and touch whatever muscle you're trying to isolate firmly. You have to contract the muscle as hard as possible and squeeze, but keep the rep very smooth. Perfect for lateral raises and curls, if you ever decide to add them. The lateral raises gave breathtaking results.



Huh! That's a good one. Especially the breathtaking results part. :~)

I listened to a guy (Greg Roskopf, of MAT ... Muscle Activation Techniques) talk about isolated isometric contractions last week. Very interesting seminar. Haven't heard of touch training before. I wonder if the philosophies have any crossover.


 
michelle
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07-14-08 09:27 PM - Post#462642    



didn't Bruce Lee talk about touching the muscle before doing the isometric contractions? i know he practiced isometrics, it's in his Tao of JKD and maybe Training book. but does anyone else remember the touching part?
BEAST MODE. NOW.


 
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07-14-08 09:59 PM - Post#462652    



If you are doing quad setting or leg extensions for VMO rehab, touching the VMO can really help you learn to fire it.
The most important test a lifter has to pass
is the test of time.
-Jon Cole


 
conwict
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Total Posts: 572
07-15-08 12:34 AM - Post#462681    



http://www.t-nation.com/article/most_recent/t he_8week_calf_blitzkrieg

The program in that article uses the TT method for off-day activation as well as when possible during training.

Ideal situation would be a partner who could do it for you on certain lifts, but unilateral exercises - upper body mostly - are pretty conducive to it.

If you have an itch to try it, add in some lateral raises, maybe 4x10, a couple times a week and try it with em. The idea is to really contract the muscle hard and feel where in the rep you aren't contracting...or, with the calf exercises, to feel what part of the muscle ought to contract harder.

It's a great method...you don't really need the book, although it does have some cool ideas for teaching people proper rowing form, etc.

I think it'd work great with one-arm bench press if you touched the pec. Definitely a bodybuilding method but it sure does work.
 
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