Re: Dave's flat wrong about cardio
07-15-08 07:54 PM - Post#462998    

"Tom Platz used to go on 20 mile bike rides AFTER leg day. (I heard that somewhere, don't remember where but I bought it then and believe it now:)"

Let's not forget, though, that almost all Mr Universe contenders aren't competing naturally. This is going to make a heck of a difference to what levels of load the body can recuperate from. Not only that, but Tom also had exceptional leg genetics most people don't have.
Having said that, 20 miles isn't quite as bad as it sounds but I guess it depends how hard Tom rode. I could do close to 20 miles on a non squat day but I'd have to limit that amount to once a week or I'd lose muscle. For me, I find shorter, interval rides are doable about 10 - 13 miles with a few hills thrown in.
I couldn't possuibly do it after squats as I don't have the compact, huge quads Tom had or as good as genetics.
I also agree you can definitely do too much. I keep seeing Madonna lately in the press and I always thought she just does too much and now seems to be looking older somehow. She's doing hours day in and day out but at almost 50 this seems to me to be a heck of a lot of work to recover from.

• Cliff Said:

Re: Dave's flat wrong about cardio
07-18-08 08:12 PM - Post#464155    

Dobri, your probably correct. Long walks and biking really helped me lose fat but I avoid high intensity cardio. I can tell when stress hormones rise in me because I feel sick in my stomach but I am sure some people can be big and handle much more then me.

07-20-08 03:22 PM - Post#464513    

When I was obese I did 1 hr cardio a day, lift 1-2hrs 3 times a week, when I was slightly overweight I would do cardio 1 hr a week, 5-7 days, and weights 5. Now that Im in good shape. No cardio, and weights 4 times a week 45-1hr.

I dont think dave flat wrong, I think too much stress from cardio hindered me.....Complex movements with high reps, and supersetting get the heart moving too. But hey if you need too dump a lot of weight cardio will do it...

I dont want to loose fat right now, Im happy with my weight and want to increase lean muscle mass, doing cardio is going to mean eating more....Well Im off to go shop with my wife and walk around the mall...Thats enough for me.

07-21-08 04:32 AM - Post#464658    

Cardio and disciplined eating has helped me shed large amounts of weight.Moderate resistance training has helped break through plateaus. I still do 20-30 minutes of moderate (for me) intense elliptical or stationary bike work every day with bowflex training M W F. But the key aspect is disciplined eating. Unless sweat drips off my chin it ain't cardio.

As you get older it is harder to have heroes, but it is sort of necessary. Ernest Hemingway

07-21-08 11:37 AM - Post#464728    

These days, I don't do cardio as conventional bodybuilders would do it. By that, I mean most bodybuilders tend to do 30 minutes or so on a treadmill or stationary bike and, so, do more cardio than I would opt to do for myself. For myself, I feel one good cardio workout a week is enough. However, when I do the session, I give it my all and come back pretty much soaked in sweat. I'll do about 90 minutes and I figure this is enough to train the heart and lungs directly and speed up the metabolism a touch. Then, when I do weights, I included squats and deadlifts which also stimulate the cardiovascular system (although in a different way).

07-21-08 11:47 AM - Post#464735    

• DOBRIYCHELOVEK Said:

I like that approach as long as day-to-day life involves plenty of movement. Just easy biking, hiking, manual labor, running around with the kids or walking the pets on a daily basis will cover minimum requirements.

"When [defeat] comes, I won't even notice. I'll be too busy looking good."

07-21-08 04:39 PM - Post#464841    

The latest studies show golfers enjoy better health than those who do no exercise at all, so even golf has benefits. I guess it's because of the constant moving about.
My cardiovascular system these days gets hit from different angles. Indirect cardio is what I get from hard front squats and high rep deadlifts. For instance, deadlifts will be performed with around 330 pounds for as many reps as I can get out. The result is a lot of gasping at the finish of the set and a lot of shocked expressions of other folks who witness it. No, it's not direct cardio but the big exercises such as deads and squats are far better for the heart and lungs than watching T.V. or surfing the net.
The direct cardio needs to be carried out but, as I mentioned, for me once a week seems fine. Cycling up hills and trying to push to 13 - 15 mph in a big gear pumps a few volumes of blood round my circulatory system, gets the red cells primed and increaases lung capacity. They say that after 50 minutes the fat-burning process also kicks in so it helps burn off a bit of fat.
I feel if I did more than that, I could start to lose too much weight and tone down the core muscle I seek to build in the gym. Plus, I cycle to and from work so I can add that onto the equation.

• Yeti Said:

07-21-08 04:47 PM - Post#464842    

The dog featured in my avatar does about 20 minutes solid cardio a day with me (myself in the role of coach). He does some flat sprints on grass and, for power, he does short hill sprints. The short hill sprints are for bone loading and to build power and spring.
The training works as the dog can easily knock me to the floor at a spring yet he weighs a mere 85 pounds of solid muscle.
His cardiovascular capacity is quite good and his speed is exceptional. I put that down to his Bavarian genetics.
I guess it does me good too as I walk with the dog for a couple of hours but he only does 15 - 20 minutes quality training before we just stroll. Needless to say he loves training and can't wait to get to the fields.

07-21-08 08:08 PM - Post#464889    

Golf, when you walk rather than ride a cart is very nice exercise! Especially on hilly courses!

07-21-08 10:45 PM - Post#464930    

A very good exercise for the feet and general body would be to play eighteen holes of golf...while walking barefoot.

Wicked

"I'm in good shape for the shape I'm in." "Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me." John 14:6

07-22-08 02:36 PM - Post#465158    

• Wicked Willie Said:

Believe it or not I have seen that done a couple of times. Most course do not allow it though!

07-29-08 12:59 PM - Post#467170    

• Cliff Said:

What? Bare feet are harder on the course than golf spikes? Strange.

David

07-29-08 04:42 PM - Post#467219    

• dsun Said:

It's more about the "class" of the place than about the greens. I know, I know. The uppityness of some courses/members in the game is one of the very few things I don't like about golf. But it's there, it really is!

08-07-08 09:30 AM - Post#470326    

Bare Foot Golf? Not with some of the stuff they spread and spray on that grass.

As you get older it is harder to have heroes, but it is sort of necessary. Ernest Hemingway

08-28-08 04:36 PM - Post#477626    

one word, one shot of cortisone...busitis! ugh

Joy

04-04-10 09:51 AM - Post#615738    

Regarding OP:

My thoughts:

Very few trained like Dave, simple...So it was good for him and those few others...

But, cardio in some shape or form is important, getting the heart pumping over the magic number is what counts...

I do believe higher reps will get that job done...walking fast and running (added) is very good, (military training proves that) to be in top shape it is now a given that cardio (some shape or form) is a must...

But, if you did what Dave did in the day, would you look like him??? I doubt it...

And if you added cardio, you most certainly would not...

Regards

"I live, I lift, I ache, I am." - "I don't mean to be rude, but...junk is for jerks" "No pain, no gain' isn’t a nursery rhyme, and 'only the strong survive" ...Etc... Had to put in this quote... Current Quote "Eat better, train harder, be tougher, think surer and rest morer." ~ Draper Dave Draper **** Age 73 Semper Fi... GAB

04-05-10 08:29 PM - Post#616014    

• Gabster Said:

I read an interesting article on that a few days ago.

http://www.martygallagher.com/diet/diet_more/40_0_7 _0_C/

Re: Dave's flat wrong about cardio
06-20-10 01:48 PM - Post#630362    

I don't know why men would need more or less than women. A heart is a heart. But it's been my experience and from what I've learned, HIT is the best way to get the cardio in. I detest cardio and could live the rest of my life without it. But, the human animal is designed (by function) to run in spurts. Thus, I train in spurts. I do ten minutes of HIT every other day. Even three minutes of HIT cardio takes the blood pressure down for up to 24 hours according to studies and in my own case.

Quoting: For me life is continuously being hungry. The meaning of life is not simply to exist, to survive, but to move ahead, to go up, to achieve, to conquer. Arnold Schwarzenegger

Dave's flat wrong about cardio
06-20-10 07:22 PM - Post#630390    

I have been reading numerous books by or about Mike Mentzer..."Heavy Duty" and "HIT" thinking...

He mentioned cardio was not needed when doing BB on same day, but he was not against it for extra training...

Just don't overtrain in it...He died of heart failure prior to age 50, genetic problem...

But with all his knowledge, you would have thought he could have been, heart smarter...

Regarding this mention from the above link...

AGE 30 40 50
100% 190 180 170
70% 133 126 119
60% 114 108 102
*******
I get my heart up pretty high as a rule for most of the time I am there, at least an hour...It is in the 124 range and up, I am 68...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_rate_monit or

I am going to get one, for checking the heart, after reading the link...
Thanks...

Gary

"I live, I lift, I ache, I am." - "I don't mean to be rude, but...junk is for jerks" "No pain, no gain' isn’t a nursery rhyme, and 'only the strong survive" ...Etc... Had to put in this quote... Current Quote "Eat better, train harder, be tougher, think surer and rest morer." ~ Draper Dave Draper **** Age 73 Semper Fi... GAB

Re: Dave's flat wrong about cardio
06-22-10 01:07 AM - Post#630633    

• Gabster Said:

Seniormuscle is probably talking about HIIT, High Intensity Interval Training.

( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-intensity_i nterval_training )

"My grandma Olga, a famous Finnish Powerlifter, once told me, 'Little one, take care of your gastrointestinal tract and it'll take care of you.' Then she struck me with some salted herring." - TC Luoma

Edited by The Finn on 06-22-10 01:07 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

Re: Dave's flat wrong about cardio
06-22-10 09:58 AM - Post#630658    

There was this idea in H.I.T circles that hard squats is sufficient for cardio because you get very out of breath. Well, it's true you do get out of breath but this isn't cardiovascular training. With cardio we're directly working the entire heart, vascular system and pulmonary system and so forth. It's like giving an engine a bit more throttle. The way to do this is put a fairly hard but sustainable load on the muscles and go for rapid muscular contractions (such as fast rpm on a bike). This then raises the heart rate and forces the heart to work hard (45 minutes to an hour is good).
The benefits I think are that cardio done hard enough makes the weights workout seem easier (I suffered more sprinting up hills on a bike than even squats).

• Gabster Said:

06-22-10 10:53 AM - Post#630666    

Daves last column was a good one...Funny and as always I read between the lines...

http://www.davedraper.com/draper-current-articl e.html

The idea of doing both cardio and BB same session, is it confuses the body as to what you are asking it to do...

So it goes into a mode it cares for, and that is not making you big and muscle'y...

Or so some write...

But if you observe the end result of extreme BB and runners (long distance) it is clear body types prevail in each area...

To have the best for health is neither imho...Need to be in between in both for a productive life and lifestyle...To be either is way to obsessive IMHO...

Working the body a few hours a day is fine and dandy, but some say that is not enough and others say it is more than needed...

Reading the small booklet about different styles of working out by Dave Draper and Bill Pearl is/was interesting...Both have made it through the dangerous years, and going into long lived...

Regards,
Gary

"I live, I lift, I ache, I am." - "I don't mean to be rude, but...junk is for jerks" "No pain, no gain' isn’t a nursery rhyme, and 'only the strong survive" ...Etc... Had to put in this quote... Current Quote "Eat better, train harder, be tougher, think surer and rest morer." ~ Draper Dave Draper **** Age 73 Semper Fi... GAB

07-05-10 03:11 AM - Post#632755    

as you guys might recall, i am a cardio person. i believe in it strongly, in regards to being healthy.

duration, frequency, and intensity are the 3 ways of increasing ones cardio.

my thought is first work on frequency. get out there a few days a week, doing something, getting your body used to it. low intensity.

once you are getting out there on a consistent frequent basis, work on duration. at a fairly low intensity, get up to one hour, doing whatever you are doing.

once you are getting out there frequently for one hour, then start working on your intensity.

one area where i definitely disagree with probably most posters on this site is resistance while doing cardio. i am an advocate of high speed, low resistance cardio.

resistance is for weight training. of course, one has to monitor the speed based on the level of intensity that one can manage.

11-30-10 12:20 AM - Post#663072    

Since I was trained by Vince Gironda,I believe that cardio is not needed as much as lifting the iron and steel,you can get a good cardio workout if you train with high intensity during your workouts.I am 6 foot 3 and weighed 288 about 18 months ago and I am down to 258 and in the best shape of my life since I was in my late 20s and I did this with no cardio,just diet and hard training.I have read some articles that said never do more than 20 mins of cardio a day and only three times a week.I have a hard time doing cardio because for me it is so boring and while if im on cardio piece I keep looking at the rest of the gym and it keeps calling my name telling me to come lift us,lol,I understand that there are some benefits for cardio,for me I want to maintain a high degree of size and muscularity so I keep doing what works for me,humbly speaking of course.Craig.

You can have whatever you say in life,but most people say what they have.

Re: Dave's flat wrong about cardio
08-04-13 08:03 PM - Post#778850    

I thought Dave was wrong but maybe he is right after all. When I do a lot of cardio it just blows out my body. Interval training seems to work where I just pick up the pace.

Rick

MS, MBA Wild Saddle™

08-04-13 08:17 PM - Post#778851    

Nice post Craig. Although I do like cardio, running on treadmill, my body cannot take the tremendous stress. I had hip pain and stopped cardio and finally feel normal. I get hurt from everything except weightlifting.

Richard Sanchez

• Craig M. Said:

MS, MBA Wild Saddle™

Re: Dave's flat wrong about cardio
06-07-14 12:22 AM - Post#804427    

It seems Dave is right again as scientific evidence suggests those who run long distances (at least later in life) tend to die earlier as a result of heart failure.

Dave is about 20 years ahead of the medical community in terms of fitness advice.

MS, MBA Wild Saddle™

Edited by Richard Sanchez on 06-07-14 12:24 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

06-07-14 01:36 AM - Post#804429    

even if older people who run long distances die earlier, this has nothing to do with the topic of whether cardio is good for someone.

the logic fails because it equates running long distances with cardio.

heck, marathoners are some of the unhealthiest people on the planet. many of them look like walking skeletons.

i hear comments about "how weight lifting gives me good cardio".

that statement shows that the person thinks that cardio is important. and it also demonstrates the person's desire to think that he can get it solely from weight lifting.

one thing that i have learned is that almost always when 2 things affect us differently, it is extremely likely that they are doing something different in our bodies.

and nothing could be too much different than lifting weights when compared to running on the beach, or doing the stairmaster, etc.

09-20-14 06:52 PM - Post#811659    

I think Dave IS Dead Right About Cardio.

Richard Sanchez

MS, MBA Wild Saddle™