Laree
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02-16-06 04:00 PM - Post#185156
You know, the truth is, I think Dave's wrong about cardio. (There, I said it.) At least, I know for certain most women need more cardio work, but I think men need more cardio than Dave suggests, too. Now, I know his basic premise is that people will skip the gym entirely if they have to do cardio, or they'll skip their weight training in favor of wandering along on a treadmill watching tv, and of course in those cases, he's bang on: skip the cardio and get on the gym floor.
But for the rest of us who maybe don't train two hours a day, and who are trying to be more fit and maybe a little leaner, I really think he may have led some astray. So let's talk about adding regular cardio workouts to our training programs.
When Dave does talk about cardio, it's high intensity interval training (HIIT) he points to, and for good reason. We were sold a bill of goods when taught back in the '80s that low intensity aerobic training burned more fat than training at higher workloads. In fact, the percentage of fat burned is higher, but the total calories burned at higher intensity is far greater, meaning the overall fat burning increases as the intensity goes up.
Plus, doing higher intensity work increases the calorie burning after the training session, by as much as 100-200 calories per day, which will really add up over the course of the month, and that's for doing nothing… just a big bonus!
Fat burning's nothing, though, when compared to the fitness benefits of interval work. We just get in shape faster when we train harder, it's that simple. And we get in better shape working harder than is possible with slower cardio, making aggressive intervals an obviously better payoff.
Still, why wouldn't we go for the best of both worlds? We've got seven days during the week to play out our training programs, so let's throw in some intervals, a couple of longer endurance workouts and a rest day, slide in our weight training routines and scramble it all up into a chef's supreme.
While we're at it, I think we should talk about heart rate training, doing cardio work with a heart rate monitor strapped around the chest. These days a monitor doesn't cost that much, around $70 for a no-frills Polar unit, which will do the job perfectly. If you find aerobic work boring (raises hand, jumps up and down!), I'm here to tell you things are 180 degrees opposite when doing planned and monitored heart rate interval training. It's a beautiful thing when you turn away from the clock, let me tell you. Truth is, the clock comes in handy, sometimes for the start/stop time, other times for the interval duration, but the days of watching the second hand tick tick tick around the dial for 30 long minutes is all-the-way over.
Now about the intervals, where do you start if you've never tried interval training? That's kind of the fun of it, because there's no wrong way to do it. I really mix it up, and that's why it's so much more interesting than just trudging around the track. The most famous -- and generally acknowledged to be the most effective -- is the Tabata Protocol, named after the researcher who developed the work, Izumi Tabata: Six to eight very hard 20-intervals with 10-second rest periods. If you do the math, you'll see you've got a total of about four minutes work here… add in a ten-minute warmup and a five-to-ten-minute cooldown (use your heart rate monitor to verify your cooled 110 bpm), and your total commitment is 20, 25 minutes.
This isn't where you're going to start as a new HIIT trainee, however. Beginners will do best by reversing the intervals, starting with shorter efforts and longer rest periods, gradually decreasing the rest over the first three or four weeks. Here's the beauty: Progress is quick, and it's measurable with your heart rate monitor.
You can work yourself pretty hard using longer effort/rest combinations, let's say one minute effort and one minute rest, or 90 seconds effort with 30 seconds rest. Or, using your heart rate monitor, you can use music to schedule your switches; for instance, upping your beats per minute five or ten beats with each new song until you hit your target for the day, or perhaps even your maximum heart rate, before heading back down the ladder.
Bulletin: This is not your absolute max, meaning you hit it and you die; it's the maximum rate you can reach with purposeful physical effort. The most common estimation is 220 minus your age, however often that's not even in the ballpark. For instance, mine at age 50 using that formula is 170, yet I saw 190 on my monitor just this morning. It'll take a little experimentation to discover your number, and once you have it you'll be able to use that to plot your intervals to best work your cardiovascular system.
One more thing about max heart rate: The more fit you are AND the more accustomed to the specific training, the harder you have to work to reach it. This is a good argument for cardio cross training, isn't it? I cross train within each cycling workout using increased resistance seated, coming out of the saddle against resistance, speed work and combinations thereof. And I cross train from workout to workout doing a variation of a steady hill climb, a Tabata protocol, an endurance ride, but while I have to work very hard at hitting my known max of 194, if I were to do a track workout, I'm probably be panting my heart out of my chest at around 150.
By the way, if you overdo your heart rate during a workout, you'll know it. You'll be wiped out all day. Take the next day off... all the way off.
Once you start on a cardio training program (and by this I mean a training program, not your obligatory 20 minutes pedaling as you watch CNN), you'll want to mix up your energy output. If you have hard interval day, perhaps you'll want to follow it the next day with a lighter effort day.
Using the monitor, I'll sometimes ride longer, an endurance-boosting ride -- up to an hour, carefully warming up over the first ten minutes to hit 130 beats per minute. Then I'll bump it up a little, either the pace or the resistance or both, to target 145, where I'll stay for 45 minutes, when I'll slow everything down for the last five minutes to get off the bike at around 115 bpm on the monitor.
Next you'll fold your weight training into the mix, planning your days in advance so you don't accidentally do all your hard training at once, weights and interval cardio, that is. A weight training day would be followed by one of your less intense cardio workouts, perhaps something like the longer distance one described above. And when you're working this hard, you need to plan an off day, too; let your whole body rest one day a week.
Higher energy workouts -- strenuous exercise -- will boost your metabolism. It's going to make you more fit; it's going to burn more calories during exercise and after; it's going to make your heart and lungs stronger; and it's going to lean you out in a way the old-fashioned 45-minute routines never could. You can do it with a watch (and a walkman or mp3 player), but if you can spring for it, add a heart rate monitor to your pack for remarkable results.
My resting heart rate dropped from 64 to 56 in the first two weeks of this new effort. (Bravo! I'm fitter!) I can now use that number to measure fitness, overtraining, illness, simply by checking my pulse for a minute each morning before rising. A 10-beat bump, and I take a training day off, whether it's on the schedule or not.
I'm convinced the best cardio training tool is the indoor spin-style bike. This would be a bike with a weighted flywheel, not a standard stationary bike, equipped with regular bike pedals. Spring for some bike shoes; the difference between pedaling with regular shoes and clipped in is huge -- clipped to the pedals enables both pushing and pulling during each pedal stroke, which is both more effort as well as a whole lot more fun. The benefits of training stationary over pedaling outdoors includes the ability to use the heart rate monitor fully; you're not limited by the terrain, traffic or weather. You can close your eyes and concentrate on your pedal cadence and the workload. Other tricks include spinning with one leg in order to balance leg strength and coordination, using music to set cadence (double time, triple time... half time), then using resistance to focus on the target heart rate.
Other cardio offers different benefits -- sure, I know… being outside! -- but none that I can think of offers the whole package for absolute training. My second choice would probably be a Concept 2 rower, although I'm not well versed in its use.
You'll discover all this stuff on your own if you start a heart-rate-based cardio program, but I think it's more interesting from the beginning and you may get more caught up in it if you know to look at it as more than the compulsory 30 minutes, three times a week, because-my-wife-makes-me-do-it drudgery.
If you really want to round out the picture, add 15 minutes of flexibility work after your hard interval days. You may not become Mr. Universe with this combination, but since I don't think they even hold that competition anymore, maybe you can settle for fit and healthy past your ninth decade.
Here's our collection of IOL threads on cardio:
http://www.davedraper.com/forum/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/12858/an/0/page/0#12858
And here's more on aerobic fitness and heart rate monitors from our wiki database.
http://www.davedraper.com/forum/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=PmWiki.AerobicFitness
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Ivan
Total Posts: 832
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HIIT is the only way to do cardio. It rocks, literally. When training for the contest I participated in it was HIIT that got me down to 5% bf. You're right about beginners. Take more time to rest between intervals. True, true.
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Phil_N
Total Posts: 2924
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No flowers for Valentine’s Day? Huh? LOL Sorry, that wasn’t funny… not one bit… OK I agree with you, I plow through my workouts and I still think that doing cardio makes a big difference.
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bulch
Total Posts: 4276
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Briliant Laree, Thanks! bulch :@)
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Anonymous
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Way to go Laree....
take one of the most favorite things that Dave says away from. me now.. geez...
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Laree
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Quote:
garyed said:
Way to go Laree....
take one of the most favorite things that Dave says away from. me now.. geez...
heh heh. Well, you won't be alone with this feeling.
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J3ffr0
Total Posts: 119
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Quote:
Bubo said:
No flowers for Valentine’s Day? Huh? LOL
Sorry, that wasn’t funny… not one bit…
Dude, that was VERY funny.
<ducking>
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DennisH
Total Posts: 2884
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Let's see...in his newsletter Dave says, "like the opposite sex, you can't live with them, you can't without them".
In this post Laree says, "Dave's flat wrong about cardio".
I know nothing, I see nothing (as he quietly creeps out of the room).
Dennis
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Fit in Pink
Total Posts: 1133
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Right on Sister Laree!! Women naturally have more fat than men. Men can lose their fat quicker than women. I can do all the weight training in the world to build muscle and, yet, in order for it to be noticeable, I must do cardio to lean out. In the past, I've heard different things at different gyms and, a lot of times, the recommendation was to focus on the cardio first; lose your desired weight and then build your muscle. Perhaps, for those really overweight, this is the best way. As for myself, I prefer the combination with slightly more cardio than weights. On a health stand point of view, cardiovascular activity benefits both sexes.
| Slow and steady wins the race. (From the "Tortoise and the Hare") |
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brucedl
Total Posts: 2406
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Dave doesn't read this stuff much does he?
I like to do some cardio work combined with diet to bring my weight down. I use a treadmill and do it early (3:00 a.m.) before I go to work. That way it's done and over before I wake up enough to realize what I am doing to myself. I put my cd on with "TOP GUN" and walk for about 45 min to an hour. I go by heart rate and keep it around 140 to 145. I drink about a quart of water while I am walking. Simple does it for me.
One thing everyone must be aware of is their ability to withstand the punishment to their body from cardio. Younger people can generally go much harder than old geezers like me with out giving themselves repetitive use injuries. Switching from a treadmill to a bike can help to keep from over use injuries.
HIIT is great if you are able to do it with having to make a 911 call.
A gradual increase as was pointed out is the way to go. If you are in doubt about your general health you should get check up from a GOOD doctor to be sure that you will survive.
I want to make it clear that I am not against any form of exercise, people just need to ease into it.
Bruce
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jej
Total Posts: 4679
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I do cardio seven days a week, for cardiovascular fitness. Don't know how much good it ever did me for fat loss.
From a running/walking perspecive, intervals present some difficult issues. Yes, they can get in you fine cardio shape. However, done on a regular basis, particularly by older or less fit trainees, they tend to cause more injuries than slower running/walking. For competitors, they tend to produce unexpected performance highs and lows - not good if training for a specific competition day, but maybe not too relevant for non-competitors. In the 1950's, even marathon runners trained pretty much exclusively with intervals. In the 60's and 70's, that changed to where most trained with intervals only to peak for competition.
I do not know how much of the injury issue is running/walking specific - related to the impact that goes with foot-strike. So, I do not know how much it goes away if you are biking or doing other things that do not involve impact.
jej
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Deston Fallon
Total Posts: 333
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I am guilty here too. I hit the treadmill in the AM for perhaps 12 to 22 minutes. More often no more than 16 on a hill walking fast. Gives me a little sweat. Thanks for the help Laree!
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EdMaleRNMuscle67
Total Posts: 1230
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Good info Laree. I do cardio for the health benefits and also because I simply enjoy it. I went a long time without doing any cardio because I didn't have the time with a long weight workout and because I was concerned about losing too much weight and strength. Since I increased my cardio I like the leaner look I have and I feel better overall. The fact is that I will never be a Dave Draper or Arnold. It's taken me a long time to realize this..LOL. I'm in this for life and good health is my goal.
| Getting stronger every day. |
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cajinjohn
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Who is sleeping on the couch.
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Amazonblonde
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I could never live without cardio...along with good for my heart..takes the stress away and keeps me from beating up my co-workers:-)
| Obsessed is a word the lazy use to describe the dedicated!!! |
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TomP
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Cardio is for the gazelle in me. Weightlifting is for the bear in me. They are constantly fighting for superiority. Which one is winning? The one I feed the most.
| For he today that sheds his blood with mine, shall forever be my brother. |
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/sk
Total Posts: 4826
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I think you're right, Laree. LIke grandma said, moderation. It's actually sort of silly for someone to do no direct work for all the systems and expect to be completely healthy.
I try to get a combination of HIIT and LSD easch week.
/sk
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Andy Mitchell
Total Posts: 5269
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Quote:
Amazonblonde said:
I could never live without cardio...along with good for my heart..takes the stress away and keeps me from beating up my co-workers:-)
I'm with Lori on this one.
There is nothing more theraputic for me than spending time on the elliptical listening to music with a beat.
The unit also has a heart rate monitor, using a graded or interval type protocol certainly takes the attention away from the clock.
I took my bike for a spin last night with my brother for 2 1/2 hours. It's a great way to interval train; go hard up the hills and cruise on the flat.
I also love spinning if you can find a good intructor who uses a interval type class, I also enjoy the social aspect of it.
Nice legs-shame about the face
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Ben Crawford
Total Posts: 1958
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Great article...I hate cardio...I do it to stay young....
"Don't accumulate possessions, accumulate experiences!" Mark Batterson
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Laree
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Quote:
J3ffr0 said:
Quote:
Bubo said:
No flowers for Valentine’s Day? Huh? LOL
Sorry, that wasn’t funny… not one bit…
Dude, that was VERY funny.
<ducking>
Hey, check this... I didn't even get it the first time around, I'm so dense about Valentine's stuff. No worries about flowers over here.
Now, we'll see how things go after one of you clues Dave in that I put this up. lol.
No, totally seriously, Dave already knows he should be doing cardio, and should be recommending it more. The thing is -- and it's valid -- he's afraid people will drop a solid weight workout in favor of being lulled to sleep in the aerobic tv room. He's writing to the general newsletter list, and I'm posting to the forum; it's a different set of people and, hey, you guys won't nod off on the bike, will you?
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Kyle Estle
Total Posts: 6254
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I'm in complete agreement. I strive for three things in my training: strength, cardio fitness, and flexibility, and I look for a balance within the three. Here's my current schedule. Monday, Wednesday, Friday: Weight training (currently 5 x 5) Tuesday, Thursday: Elliptical training followed by high-rep abdominal work Saturday: Interval training (Lately I have been working the "rowers combo" that ccrow wrote up; it's the toughest 24 min. workout I've done) Sunday: rest Evenings, when I feel sore or stiff I work in some yoga. I am as strong, fit, and flexibile as I have ever been but I also have lots of room for improvement and a lifetime to get there. Kyle E.
| Performance, Health, and Longevity |
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DanMartin
Total Posts: 20705
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Is this some sort of premature April Fools thing?
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DanMartin
Total Posts: 20705
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I'm not so sure that fat loss is actually a good measure of your "cardio" activity.
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Andy Mitchell
Total Posts: 5269
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Quote:
Laree said:
The thing is -- and it's valid -- he's afraid people will drop a solid weight workout in favor of being lulled to sleep in the aerobic tv room. He's writing to the general newsletter list, and I'm posting to the forum; it's a different set of people and, hey, you guys won't nod off on the bike, will you?
DD is correct. It's a common practice at my gym. The cardio theatre has about twenty T.V's on the wall.
Nice legs-shame about the face
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Andy Mitchell
Total Posts: 5269
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Quote:
DanMartin said:
I'm not so sure that fat loss is actually a good measure of your "cardio" activity.
Watching what you put in your mouth is.
Nice legs-shame about the face
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Richard Sanchez
Total Posts: 4023
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I'll try to squeeze my response in this topic.
I was at UCSF (University California at San Francisco) today and I was amazed to see what exercise equipment they had in a brand new four story building built at a new research complex that was designed exclusively as a fitness center.
On the fourth story it had a large outdoor swimming pool (cardio machines lined up near the pool, and at every level) with great views and with the same thing on the second story. The ground floor had extremely large LifeFitness Cardio equipment, around 70, most of which had large Flat Panel Screens built into the exercise machines so you could watch TV while treadmilling. The equipment must have been extremely expensive and all brand new. Interesting enough, it looked as if 80% of the extensive exercise equipment was cardio.
If all goes well in a few weeks I will be using the equipment, if it does not back to the stinky Gold's Gym with the loud Cell Phone users.
Just slightly different than the old Dungeon...
Richard Sanchez
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Anonymous
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ArtH
Total Posts: 804
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During my ISSA training I learned of yet another way to calculate target heart rate for cardio training. It's called the Karvonen method and it goes like this: 220 minus your age,(gives you your predicted age adjusted max) then subtract your resting heart rate (ie take your pulse when you first wake up in the AM), (this gives you your heart rate reserve), then multiply that number by your exercise intensity (60% to 80%). Then add your resting heartrate back to obtain your age and intensity adjusted target heart rate !! This adds a little more science to the calculation however the assumptions used still make this less than real scientific.. Good luck everyone..
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Diablo
Total Posts: 7355
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You can do HIIT weight training can't you? To me that would be the ideal and it's what I aim for with short rest intervals during the lifting sessions. I guess 5x5 doesn't lend itself so well to it, but an 8x8 probably would if you had enough weight that each set took a short while. Another reason for Super Setting and Trisetting. No?
Diablo
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mjolson
Total Posts: 1915
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Quote:
Diablo said:
You can do HIIT weight training can't you?
Good call. Do high-rep clean and jerks count as HIIT?
--Matt Olson
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- Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary |
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Diablo
Total Posts: 7355
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Quote:
mjolson said:
Quote:
Diablo said:
You can do HIIT weight training can't you?
Good call. Do high-rep clean and jerks count as HIIT?
It would seem like that would be even more ideal since it's full body, not just pumping legs or what have you like from a bike. I actually was thinking DL's and squats in high reps to be just as good and even better really. Cept maybe the back strain on the DL's. But high rep squats should lend itself really well to it.
Diablo
Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth- MT |
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Andy Mitchell
Total Posts: 5269
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3x3; not for the faint at heart. squatty movement x 20 pull x 12 push x 12 squatty movement x 15 pull x 10 push x 10 squatty movement x 12 pull x 8 push x 8 All pushed to positive failure Running to each station. You are done in about 12~15 minutes. If you are good 10 minutes. Wait a minute then fininsh off with some farmers walks. You would be one tuff nut if you could do this once a week. The heart is thumping, puffing like a goat, muscles pumped and aching and sweating like a pig.
Nice legs-shame about the face
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ccrow
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I love this topic :) Laree, that is a great writeup. Cardio serves two main purposes, as far as I can see: fitness and weight control. The weight control part may make it, ultimately, the healthiest part of your training. Of course I realize it isn't a magic bullet for weight control without a sound diet - even Lance Armstrong could eat faster than he can pedal. If you can maintain a high level of all around fitness and an ideal bodyweight without cardio, you can live without it. Dave is probably one of the Lucky Bastards (tm) that fall into this category. There are also dietary L. B.'s that don't struggle to avoid junk and eat perfectly, easily; Dave may be in this category, too, and being in both may be why he looks like he's from a different planet from the rest of us. (Now I see a few people noticed cardio had some beneficial effects for stress reduction; I guess that would be another main purpose, although it doesn't do it for me.) The truth is an awful lot of muscleheads are in denial about their cardiovascular fitness. Of course, likewise, a lot of endurance athletes are in denial about their strength levels. For every barbell boy that breathes heavy if they have to take the stairs to the third floor, there's a marathoner that feels that ten pushups and some situps in their warmup constitutes cross training. Both ought to wake up and smell the coffee. Barbell boy, you may be able to bench press a bus, but if you have to chase it for a block you're going to die. Marathon man, your heart may be in great shape but you have the physique and power of an eleven year old stamp collector. Either one of these deficiencies is going to catch up with you eventually. Not everyone has to be an elite performer in everything, but at least put some thought into minimal standards for all aspects of fitness, and figure out a way to meet them. I couldn't make myself like cardio until I quit the gerbil machines and most steady state cardio. For me cardio with heavy things has been much better. Sleds, kettlebells, and the old standby, barbells, have done the trick. I don't think it's possible to win the Iron Man on 20-30 minute interval workouts, but you can get very, very fit on them. Programming and juggling all the components has gotten pretty complicated for me. Long ago I used to muse over different split routines, now I look more at the big picture, scheduling strength work, endurance work, special exercises and flexibility, recovery. There's a lot of overlap.
The most important test a lifter has to pass
is the test of time.
-Jon Cole
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Corey M Pavitt
Total Posts: 497
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Quote:
Laree said:
If you really want to round out the picture, add 15 minutes of flexibility work after your hard interval days.
Wow Laree! You are really going 180* to Dave. :)
Enjoyed your post. I think you are right on.
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Laree
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Quote:
DanMartin said:
Is this some sort of premature April Fools thing?
No, I'm trying to get Vicki to buy a spin bike, get her back in her living room and off on another tangent. You know, my 2006 mess-with-Dan plan.
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Yeti
Total Posts: 6587
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Quote:
ccrow said:
Long ago I used to muse over different split routines, now I look more at the big picture, scheduling strength work, endurance work, special exercises and flexibility, recovery. There's a lot of overlap.
I agree. I've worried about all the details in my weight routine too, but lately I've found that spending less time in the gym and more time outside doing a variety of things is making the former more productive.
Great post, Laree!
| "When [defeat] comes, I won't even notice. I'll be too busy looking good." |
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Juls
Total Posts: 117
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I have been doing HIIT 3-4 days a week... usually 3 days... I do a 5 minute warm up, folloed by a 1.5 minute fast walk with a 30 second sprint at 9's and 10 mph... I do this 7 times, followed by one last 30 second sprint and then a cool down for a few minutes... 20 minutes and I am done and sweaty!! Great article Laree... No cardio program would ever come between me and my weights... OF course I should put a little more priority in cardio... which I will be doing starting on Monday...
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Steve Wedan
Total Posts: 2112
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Before I scrolled down to Byron's post, I was going to wax eloquent about the beauty of low-tech iron and steel objects being more and more suited to my aging temperament. Now, I'll just say that I've let go my obligation to the hamster-wheels taking up most of the space in my local gym and lift my kettlebells. I've done things in my life that have gotten my heart and respiration rates very high (I remember once following a high-rep set of heavy squats with running up my basement steps and through the house, exiting the front door at nearly full speed, and sprinting the nearby hill on my street and then coming back: My heart rate exceeded 200 that day), but kettlebell lifting with great effort and medium-to-high reps takes a second place to none of them. I mean this as no scoffing of your post, Laree. On the contrary, what you wrote is a very important message. I just prefer a more elemental modality. Steve
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Yeti
Total Posts: 6587
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Quote:
andy said:
3x3; not for the faint at heart.
squatty movement x 20
pull x 12
push x 12
squatty movement x 15
pull x 10
push x 10
squatty movement x 12
pull x 8
push x 8
All pushed to positive failure
Running to each station.
You are done in about 12~15 minutes. If you are good 10 minutes.
Wait a minute then fininsh off with some farmers walks.
You would be one tuff nut if you could do this once a week.
Good routine. I may do something like this with the sandbag this weekend.
| "When [defeat] comes, I won't even notice. I'll be too busy looking good." |
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DanMartin
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Weight training as a means of conditioning is too often ignored or overlooked. Refer to the "Timed Squats" section of "The Strongest Shall Survive."
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Laree
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Login Name: ldraper
Date Agreed to Rules: 12-09-10
Country: Z
Occupation: Website work
info_have_been_training_since: 12-31-79
Primary Training Purpose: Fitness and strength beats aging badly
Real Email Address: ld@davedraper.com
Homepage: davedraper.com
(Rhymes with Marie)
Full name: Laree Draper
Gender: female
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No scoff taken! Quite the opposite... seems like a good compilation of ideas for people to choose from, which is important because there's no follow-through if the person hates the activity.
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Wicked Willie
Total Posts: 16864
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I find traditional, leg oriented cardio to be excruciatingly boring. However, when combining the arms and legs in cardio, you can maintain a higher heartrate with less perceived effort. Prime examples of this are: HeavyHands Cross country skiiing or Nordic Trac style machines Schwinn Aire-Dyne (or however it's spelled) Rowing Clean and Press Clean and Jerk I really like the HeavyHands style workouts and the Clean and Press. Although I like the Schwinn Aire-Dyne...its use eventually bores me and then it becomes hard to push sufficiently hard on it. Wicked
"I'm in good shape for the shape I'm in."
"Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life:
no man comes to the Father, but by me." John 14:6 |
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Teresa
Total Posts: 4427
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Quote:
Steve Wedan said:
I just prefer a more elemental modality.
A man after my own heart.
| "You will not be carrying around a scale to jump on and show people." - Vicki Masterson
"The following time you better do more or you are dirt!" - Vicki again |
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Andy Mitchell
Total Posts: 5269
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Laree; you said "At least, I know for certain most women need more cardio work" More cardio work than strength work? Or just more cardio in general? I've always felt that we should just train (for general health and quality of life) the same way. I always battle to get the girls I know into the weight room. I guess I just battle with girls in general :)
Nice legs-shame about the face
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Andy Mitchell
Total Posts: 5269
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Quote:
Yeti said:
Quote:
andy said:
3x3; not for the faint at heart.
squatty movement x 20
pull x 12
push x 12
squatty movement x 15
pull x 10
push x 10
squatty movement x 12
pull x 8
push x 8
All pushed to positive failure
Running to each station.
You are done in about 12~15 minutes. If you are good 10 minutes.
Wait a minute then fininsh off with some farmers walks.
You would be one tuff nut if you could do this once a week.
Good routine. I may do something like this with the sandbag this weekend.
You wont be dissapointed Yeti.
No rest between exercises.
I'd like to know how it goes for you.
Nice legs-shame about the face
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Anonymous
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eleeza
Total Posts: 203
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fearing that I will be a pilgrim in an unholy land, I'll add my 2 cents: I do cardio for cardiovascular strength, for my metabolism, for my immunity, and because, hell, I really like it. I do intervals, cross training, and long distance running. I like my medium paces when I don't max my heartrate, my fast paces, and my hills that build my quads (even though weight lifters tell me that this isn't so). :) But I do think that when people limit the benefits of cardio to only "losing weight" then they are not fully appreciating everything cardio has to offer. Just as you can weight lift in various different capacities (build strength, define muscles, etc), there are MANY aspects of cardio. I'm now appreciating weight training in a whole new light. I used to be one of those people that thought: what do I need the wt training for? I simply ignored it and got only what was achieved through my cardio workouts which wasn't much (especially for my upper body strength). I'm learning and growing (physically too!) :) That's all I had to say...
| 29 years old
5'2" 115 lbs
runner- I run because the voices tell me to. |
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ccrow
Total Posts: 10055
Signature: The most important test a lifter has to pass
is the test of time.
-Jon Cole
Show User Page
(Blog, Gallery, Shoutbox & Buddies etc...): No
Last Login IP: 172.70.134.229
Last Online: 03-14-23
User ID: 18
Login Name: ccrow
Primary Training Purpose: Health
Real Email Address: ccrowsmail@yahoo.com
Primary Training Style: Volume
old hand
Bio: No Bio
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Quote:
mjolson said:
Quote:
Diablo said:
You can do HIIT weight training can't you?
Good call. Do high-rep clean and jerks count as HIIT?
If you think about it you can go way, way into this one. If interval training is characterized by alternating periods of work and rest, almost all weight training is interval training, isn't it? Then why doesn't the standard weight training program produce results in cardiovascular fitness like HIIT?
Well, interval training's effect on the aerobic and anaerobic (lactate) systems is going to depend on three factors: - the duration of the work interval
- the duration of the rest interval
- the power output of the work interval
- the number of intervals
Consider a few factors that will influence these factors when doing intervals with weights:
- Obviously, resting less between sets will reduce the rest interval.
- A larger, stronger, fitter person will be able to generate much more absolute power in their work intervals. This is why Dave Draper or Mike Katz might be able to generate considerable aerobic demands in a standard weight workout, and you might not.
- The more weight you move and the greater the distance you move it, the higher the power output; curls will suck, clean and jerks will rule. The movement of your body's weight counts, of course. Bodyweight squats involve higher power output than presses with three quarters bodyweight. Interestingly, form doesn't matter much for power output - the output will be about the same with loose form or strict - although if you get sloppy when you're doing this, you'll quickly find yourself injured and your power output around ZERO.
- The stronger person may demonstrate higher absolute power outputs, but not so great relative to their bodyweight. Kazmier can bench 225 more times in a minute, but Jack Lallane could do more pushups.
- Some exercises are just not going to lend themselves to significant numbers of intervals at peak power output. For example, high rep squats are very tricky as the fatigue of the stabilizers will erode form. The twenty rep squat program reduces to one or two extremely hard intervals a week, which isn't going to amount to much.
- Any single exercise is going to make certain muscles the weak link. For example, with the clean and press, the shoulders will be the weak link for most people. Power outputs will be much higher than just presses though.
What does all this boil down to? Ethan Reeve is a training GENIUS. I have tried a lot of schemes for barbell cardio and his rower's combo is hard to improve on:
http://www.davedraper.com/forum/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=PmWiki.CrossfitAmpGPP
The key is shifting around between several compound movements to avoid local fatigue from limiting your efforts, while you crank out unreal power outputs. Search back a couple weeks in the forum and you'll see UFC cage fighter Randy Couture doing a similar but inferior complex that doesn't take into account all these factors.
The most important test a lifter has to pass
is the test of time.
-Jon Cole
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Anonymous
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Quote:
Laree said:When Dave does talk about cardio, it's high intensity interval training (HIIT) he points to, and for good reason. We were sold a bill of goods when taught back in the '80s that low intensity aerobic training burned more fat than training at higher workloads. In fact, the percentage of fat burned is higher, but the total calories burned at higher intensity is far greater, meaning the overall fat burning increases as the intensity goes up.
Plus, doing higher intensity work increases the calorie burning after the training session, by as much as 100-200 calories per day, which will really add up over the course of the month, and that's for doing nothing… just a big bonus!
Laree, my other passion in life outside of weight training (and perhaps junk food) is cycling. I've read quite a bit on the benefits of cardiovascular conditioning and I agree with you in that it is an excellent part of a complete workout package. Of course, if one is trying to build mass or gain strength too much can be a hinderance but for the vast majority of the population that wants to become fitter and healthier, then yes cardio conditioning is mandatory.
Here are a couple of good research articles on HIIT in case anyone wants to read them...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query...st_uids=8028502
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query...t_uids=11319629
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zim
Total Posts: 1072
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ccrow, your bits about "Barbell Boy" and "Marathon Man" are absolutely priceless! Too, too FUNNY! I like to run, and pull the sled, weather permitting, otherwise the weights got to "get it" for us...thus super sets whenever possible (like, always!). Good thread Laree! Tell Dave we won't be leaving the power rack for the treadmill! Sarah
"If a pig officially becomes a hog at 180 pounds, why do I tolerate weighing 195"??
zim 4/11 |
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