09-20-22 02:12 AM - Post#922037    

Hey all

Just checking in to see if any of you have any experience with Nordic Walking?

To my knowledge, if the poles stay pretty vertical throughout then the poles are for support and its called 'pole walking'

If the poles are angled and you push from roughly 45 degrees (arm forward) and pulls arm down to sides using more Lats and Tris, it is Nordic walking.

In a period of me being very busy I have looked for ways to spice up dog walks. At one stage this was crawling in every fashion. With a young dog that needs an eye kept on her this proved too hard and I explored more ruck/heavy hands/loaded walking. I should say that just walking for the sheer joy of it is great and something I love.

But....with time efficiency on my mind I thought about ways to involve more shoulder to hip connection. So I have tried out Nordic Walking.

I have to say that actively pulling down using the Lats and Triceps has really made me aware of my .... Lats and Triceps. Also a great way to load a lot and to really allow me to connect to my breath and strengthen vestibular system as well.

Has anyone or is anyone else a Nordic Walker?

For what it's worth I would potentially see it as a nice alternative to heavy hands (based upon the opposite force producing action).

Richard

Re: Thoughts/experiences with Nordic Walking
09-20-22 04:22 AM - Post#922038    

Hey,

Germany here. "Nordic walking" is quite popular here since about 25 years (sticks with hand slopes). Runners hate Nordic Walkers and vice versa, but that´s a different conversation.
It originated in the 1950s as a summer training for biathletes and cross country skiers.
I did it once, but i like running more.
This ia a german link with instructions:
https://www.80-20.fit/training/ausdauertrai ning/nordic-walking/

You may try Deep L Translation for the whole page.
I have seen nordic walker in groups faster than some people running. Doctors recommend it for people with knee issues, because the impact isn´t as high.
And also: I know people who would never go out for a walk ("boring") but they do "Nordic Walking" because it´s cool.

Thoughts/experiences with Nordic Walking
09-20-22 05:48 AM - Post#922040    

I've also recently discovered Nordic walking and have been putting in 10-20 miles per week over the last few months.

The huge positive of it for me is that I can unweight my bad ankle, which has all kinds of accumulated damage from decades of basketball and is usually painful enough to make normal walking difficult. Even "low impact" activities like cycling and swimming are pretty much impossible for me.

With Nordic walking, I can use the poles to reduce the weight on my ankle and put in decent time and distance.

It definitely has a higher aerobic demand than regular walking and I know what you mean about the lat and triceps involvement. I find it also enforces good posture since you're pushing yourself erect with the pole on every step.

I also thought of as "reverse" Heavy Hands since the focus is on pushing down. I've never liked Heavy Hands because I find it awkward and pumping my arms feels like this extra thing I have to force myself to do as I'm walking. Whereas the Nordic walking poling action feels like a very natural extension of the walking gait. Even though the overall action feels very natural, I like that there's also an element of mindful technique to it.

Unfortunately, finding good poles in the US is difficult. It's easy to find trekking/hiking poles, but not poles specifically for Nordic walking. Nordic walking poles have straps that are like cutaway gloves, similar to cross country ski poles. The glove strap on tight and then have a quick release connection to the handle so you can detach your hands from the poles without un-velcroing the gloves. These straps let you push hard through the strap while barely gripping the handle with your hand. The handles themselves are very thin, but you don't really grip them at all. The hands stay loose throughout and you just push through the straps.

Trekking/hiking poles tend to have contoured handles intended to be gripped with the hand and the strap is typically more of a plain webbing strap more for retention than exerting force. Trekking/hiking poles are also almost always telescoping or folding, whereas a lot of Nordic walking poles are one piece with a fixed length and come in different sizes.

A lot of the companies that make Nordic walking poles (like Leki, Swix, Exel, Gabel, Komperdell, and TSL), don't even sell them in the US, even if they sell other types of poles here. Or they only sell a couple of models of telescoping poles (Leki does this).

I actually ordered my Leki fixed length carbon poles from a vendor in Spain, and even with shipping they were cheaper than some telescoping aluminum poles sold here in the US. Carbon or carbon composite is supposedly better than aluminum because of weight and vibration damping. I only have experience with my 70% carbon Leki poles, but they feel really nice and I can see how vibration could potentially be an issue. I really like not having to mess around with telescoping mechanisms, especially since the pole tips and grips are directional, so telescoping poles have to maintain both length and alignment.

For just getting a feel for Nordic walking, probably any poles will do, but I'm very happy with ones specifically made for the activity.

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; in practice, there is. Just because it happened to you doesn't make it interesting.

Edited by Steve W. on 09-20-22 09:08 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

09-20-22 07:32 AM - Post#922043    

Might have to look into this. I've stopped trail running and replaced it with hiking. For most of my hikes I use trekking poles. Doing 10+ miles with poles is a nice workout.

Re: Thoughts/experiences with Nordic Walking
09-20-22 08:10 AM - Post#922044    

• German75 Said:

Thank you that was a great read.

Richard

09-20-22 08:12 AM - Post#922045    

• Steve W. Said:

Thanks for this....thrilled this is helping your ankle and allowing you yo feel connected. That was a surprising (not sure why I was surprised) revelation was how connected it made me feel.

Richard

09-20-22 08:16 AM - Post#922046    

• SpiderLegs Said:

Not sure if you read all my first post (it was a bit lengthy)....but walking with poles and keeping them relatively vertical is (I believe) 'pole walking' and I imagine more for stability.

If you can get them angled back a bit and drive through them then it really changed things. It comes down to how much down force you want to put in and for how long.

Defintely something I am going to explore more....although I might alternate with Heavy Hands for that change of directional emphasis.

Richard

09-20-22 09:40 AM - Post#922047    

• Ricky01 Said:

Read it. I'm somewhere between using poles for stability and using them like a cross country skier. One of my favorite training hikes gains 4000 feet in 5 miles, so my poles are rarely vertical going up.

09-20-22 11:44 AM - Post#922049    

• SpiderLegs Said:

That's an impressive elevation gain and a great way to get outside, tie the body together and workout without necessarily knowing that you are working out.

Richard

09-20-22 06:43 PM - Post#922062    

This is all new to me...thanks for sharing.

Daniel John Just handing down what I was handed down... Make a Difference. Live. Love. Laugh. Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude) Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk. Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth. Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights. Reread great books. Say thank you

09-21-22 12:44 PM - Post#922075    

Good stuff. I've never done Nordic walking, but I've read that Dr. Schwartz was inspired to create Heavy Hands when he found that cross-country skiers had the highest VO2 Max of any athletes. Since Nordic walking is also inspired by/aligned with cross-country skiing I imagine it would fit right in with Heavy Hands in terms of low impact things that offer good "bang for your buck."

09-21-22 04:24 PM - Post#922083    

There's your money maker:

Adjustable weighted walking sticks.

We can arrange my fee later.

Daniel John Just handing down what I was handed down... Make a Difference. Live. Love. Laugh. Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude) Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk. Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth. Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights. Reread great books. Say thank you

09-22-22 04:53 AM - Post#922094    

• Dan John Said:

We would need a full endorsement from your good self Dan....namely some footage of you walking with intent using your weighted poles. Preferably scaling and conquering some mountain or other carrying someone on your back.

Also, for the low impact walker .. another of you gaily ambling along with lighter poles for the days you just want to take it easy.

Richard

09-22-22 04:53 AM - Post#922095    

In all seriousness though....try it out. It is a great compliment to HH and a great workout.

Richard

09-22-22 06:13 AM - Post#922097    

I’ve done a few multi day hikes carrying 1/3rd body weight on day 1 and using trekking poles. We usually do about 20km per day. The combination of calorie restricted eating, a heavy pack and poles gets you feeling in shape very quickly.

09-25-22 11:16 AM - Post#922157    

• SpiderLegs Said:

Out of curiosity, how long does it take you to do that hike?




Stay Healthy, Stay Strong

09-25-22 04:41 PM - Post#922162    

• AusDaz Said:

I can imagine that the combination of those things would get you fit in a hurry. Although, maybe not something you would want to implement on a daily basis haha.

Richard

09-26-22 07:50 AM - Post#922175    

• Traveler Said:

09-26-22 11:52 AM - Post#922181    

• SpiderLegs Said:

Looks like you are moving at a good clip.

The reason I ask is that I am considering the up portion of the Pikes Peak Marathon. I'd like to fast hike it, rather than run it.

Thanks for the answer.




Stay Healthy, Stay Strong

09-27-22 07:16 AM - Post#922192    

• Traveler Said:

I "retired" officially from trail running this year. At my age and my build I noticed that almost the only people in my age group at running races were 6-8 inches shorter than me and 40-60 pounds lighter. I'm a sinewy 190 and 6'3" hiker these days.

This particular ascent is the kick off to a series of local's only trail races. Last year for grins and giggles I decided to enter, but not run to see how I'd finish. Out of 60 participants in ages that ranged from young 20's to early 70's I finished about 30th from simply hiking the entire thing. Fast paced hiking is underrated.

09-28-22 11:13 AM - Post#922213    

• SpiderLegs Said:

I agree completely.

And when I am unable to hike outside, I do incline treadmill walking - another underrated activity in my opinion.

Something as simple as 30 to 40 minutes on a 12% incline at 4 mph, I find does the trick.





Stay Healthy, Stay Strong

09-29-22 09:43 AM - Post#922228    

• SpiderLegs Said:

Interesting. Where in Arizona do you train? I grew up in Prescott. Love hiking.

09-30-22 07:28 AM - Post#922244    

• WhoDey Said:

Live in Tucson and was just up in Prescott a couple of days ago. Did a quick jaunt up Thumb Butte to stretch my legs.

09-30-22 10:45 AM - Post#922250    

I went to college in Tucson. Lots of great hiking in the area. My mom is in Cottonwood, so I get out there 2-3 times a year. Live in Ohio now. I'm looking to retire soon and like the idea of mixing hiking with weight training. I'm glad I stumbled across your post. It's fired up my imagination!

09-30-22 11:44 AM - Post#922252    

• WhoDey Said:

You've got a great user name!

09-30-22 08:24 PM - Post#922267    

Lol. They looked good last night.

10-01-22 10:05 AM - Post#922276    

• WhoDey Said:

I grew up in NW Ohio and now can't imagine living anywhere else. Lifting and hiking at my age seems to be the perfect elixir for my health these days.

10-01-22 12:23 PM - Post#922283    

My wife has the poles and uses them for rolling nature hikes, on the flat she doesn't normally use them.

"Go Henry - Live, lift, learn and grow - Never quit - Dave Draper"

10-01-22 05:40 PM - Post#922299    

I've ordered a pair of Nordic walking poles to see how they work for me. Not much flat in my neighborhood and I may be able to get a little more speed with the poles.

"Coyote is always waiting, and Coyote is always hungry."

10-02-22 06:59 AM - Post#922308    

• Steve Rogers Said:

They really are a great way to spice up a hike/walk.

I never look at their use as a stability tool, although I understand this light be exactly what others might want/need them for. For me they are to allow for higher musculature output from walking.

Richard

10-02-22 10:00 AM - Post#922309    

• Ricky01 Said:

For me, they serve two main purposes. One is to allow for a higher musculature output from walking, and therefore a higher aerobic demand.

The other is to deload my injured ankle and allow me to walk for exercise. Without the poles, a half mile of walking can be tough. A half mile without poles is my usual walk with my dog -- my dog likes to stop and sniff every leaf and blade of grass so I keep my dog walking and exercise walking separate -- and I'm often in a lot of discomfort by the end. With the poles, my usual routes range from 4-5 miles.

I also feel like the Nordic walking benefits my posture and overall physical well-being. I feel both looser and more tied together and can better tolerate all the sitting I do during the day. Even though I'm putting a lot more steps on my bad ankle each week, it actually feels slightly better.

I don't think of the poles as adding "stability." It's basically just a normal walking gait and arm swing, but with the push from the poles on every stride.

I'm also not sure the poles add any speed, and going faster is not one of my goals for using them. I do time myself on my various walking routes and my times have gotten faster over the few months that I've been Nordic walking. I only look at the clock at the end of my walks, so my pace is as fast as feels subjectively comfortable.

There is no such thing as flat ground where I walk, and one of the things I enjoy about that is all the subtle adjustments to my stride and pole plants that I have to make as I go. It adds a nice element of mindfulness to the activity. With my ankle, I'm always aware of every step, with or without poles. There's no such thing as "automatic" walking. But somehow with the poles it's more fun and interesting than annoying.

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; in practice, there is. Just because it happened to you doesn't make it interesting.

10-03-22 09:20 AM - Post#922324    

As a complete aside, my joints, especially ankles and knee, used to hurt a bit after walking. (among other things) However, nothing has helped more than following the "Knees Over Toes" program zero, and, wait for it...losing 60 pounds of excess weight. YMMV

Mark it Zero.

10-03-22 10:01 AM - Post#922328    

Yeah, that's definitely the weight you lost. My joints have never hurt just from walking. Good shoes, stretching and gradually scaling up speed/distance always prevents pains from just walking.......at least for me and my clients.

60lbs?! Wow, congrats! Yeah, I'd say that was the main problem.

You're really really into this KOT program/guy now huh?

Interesting......

10-04-22 09:12 PM - Post#922368    

Well done Dan! Good effort.

Andrew Gunn

10-06-22 07:42 AM - Post#922395    

One tip if you have poles with cork grips, which most Nordic walking poles do.

Even though you mainly push through the gloves/straps and not by gripping the handles, I found that walking in 90 plus degree weather the cork handles still got soaked with sweat.

So I sealed the cork with four coats of Minwax wipe-on poly. The wipe-on poly is very easy to apply, soaks into the grain of the cork and seals it against moisture while still maintaining the cork texture. No sanding between coats or any sort of surface prep was necessary.

Cork grips seem to be marketed as a premium feature, and I guess they're traditional on cross country ski poles. But I think textured or rubberized plastic would work just as well and would be more durable and lower maintenance.

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; in practice, there is. Just because it happened to you doesn't make it interesting.

10-06-22 10:43 AM - Post#922399    

• Gunny72 Said:

Thanks Gunny.

Mark it Zero.

10-08-22 08:24 AM - Post#922432    

Is there a weight “cap” for Heavy Hands? I know for rucking Dan says the average person should stick around 35lbs, mainly owing to injury concerns. For Heavy Hands, sticking to 5lbs and lower seems about right for me, but I was curious what others have found since I haven’t been doing it for that long.

Thoughts/experiences with Nordic Walking
10-10-22 04:52 PM - Post#922484    

• Arsenio Billingham Said:

I have my copy of Heavy Hands around here somewhere, though I have not read it in years.

I began doing Heavy Hands in the late 80s. Though I do not remember a cap per se, I believe that in my 30 minute pump and walk sessions, five pounds pumped to Level II, was something of a sweet spot.

I think it was Clarence Bass who wrote about the issue of "verticality" when it came to doing Heavy Hands. Leonard Schwartz, MD, who wrote the book and was the mastermind behind this form of panaerobic training, noted three pump and walk levels:

Level I - about waist height

Level II - about shoulder height

Level III - at or about head height or a bit above

The higher the bells are pumped, the tougher the workout.

I believe Schwartz did note that something akin to tennis elbow could develop from doing Heavy Hands. He wrote about exercising the forearm extensors, by putting rubber bands around the fingers and opening them, to counteract that.

At times I went heavier than five pounds. I did short stints on an inclined treadmill using 10 lbs. dumbbells, but again, that was for relatively short periods of time.

Though five pounds sounds reasonable to me, I think it is an individual thing. I would focus on being attuned to my body, making sure that nothing I was doing was beginning to cause twinges of discomfort.

I also think bringing the dumbbells down with intention, rather than letting them free fall, might - emphasis on might - be somewhat protective against tweaking things.

At some point I came to the conclusion that lighter weight pumped higher might be the way to go. I never did it long enough to come to a conclusion.

Today, when I want panaerobic training, I am more likely to use the Airdyne.

As with just about everything, your mileage may vary. To my mind, there is no replacement for working incrementally and getting feedback from your own body to see if a given exercise routine/regimen is giving the desired tonic effect rather than a toxic result.




Stay Healthy, Stay Strong