DanMartin
Total Posts: 20705
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08-09-22 02:29 PM - Post#921045
I've been giving this some more thought. Walking? Always good to do and do often. KB snatches, well, I've never focused on them, but why not?
So what I have so far: Walk every day you can. KB snatches, 3 non-consecutive days a week. But two days in a row won't kill you. What else? Bar hang? Sure. Goblet squat stretch? yes, of course. How about a Bottom's Up carry?
Your thoughts?
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DanMartin
Total Posts: 20705
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08-09-22 03:28 PM - Post#921047
I suppose I'm looking for a new DMPM.
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Pontyclun
Total Posts: 2191
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08-09-22 07:00 PM - Post#921048
I'll give this a go. I'm already doing the walking bit, really pushing the volume up over the last few weeks trying to lose a few pounds My goal was to hit 20,000 steps a day, but currently at about 16,000, so a little further to go. Managed 39,000 on Sunday, and was surprised by my aching legs and abs over the last two days.
Never really been any good at snatches, so will be interesting to see how I progress. Can't think of anything better for shoulder and hip mobility than the hanging and paused goblets too. Great idea Dan.
| Owen Brown, a Biomedical Scientist from Pontyclun, Wales. |
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Machinehead
Total Posts: 35
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08-09-22 07:40 PM - Post#921049
My current M/W/F "minimum" is more like a selection of a couple movements done in around 5 to 10 minute segments, three times a day -- right now, it's walking for about 10 minutes first thing in the morning, a set of 50 2 handed KB swings (sets are 12, 11, 10, 9, 8) and some ab wheel work mid morning, and around lunch time, snatches (5x5, R/L, EMOM -- in between snatch sets, I'll do some shadow boxing with 2.5 pound weights). Tu/Th is stretching first thing in the morning, then walking throughout the day as I'm usually in the office, whereas M/W/F, I'm "working from home".
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JPS2019
Total Posts: 32
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08-09-22 07:54 PM - Post#921050
What do KB snatches do better than a KB swing?
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Adam S
Total Posts: 629
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08-09-22 10:57 PM - Post#921055
What do KB snatches do better than a KB swing?
"Better" than a swing? I'm not sure what KB snatches do "better" than a swing. I just think they're different. I always felt that I had to be a bit more explosive, tighter, and more precise with my technique to get KB snatches for reps while maintaining good form, get my hand under the bell, and keep from knocking the crap out of my forearm (or busting my head). Swings seemed more forgiving of lapses in concentration. That's not always a good thing.
| Why are you squatting in the curl rack? |
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Andy Mitchell
Total Posts: 5269
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Need to ask oneself; what am I doing for my glutes?
In terms of making them “rock-hard”
Nail that and it will cross (or tick)a lot of other boxes
Nice legs-shame about the face
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Edited by Andy Mitchell on 08-11-22 04:01 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Andy Mitchell
Total Posts: 5269
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08-09-22 11:15 PM - Post#921059
Walking is great but I believe it’s just a measure of how your mobility is doing.
Nice legs-shame about the face
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iPood
Total Posts: 2360
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08-10-22 01:05 AM - Post#921060
What do KB snatches do better than a KB swing?
Wreck shoulders? 
KB cleans are magic manna, though.
"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness
and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums.
It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable.
Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow.
Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't."
Dan Martin |
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Gunny72
Total Posts: 410
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08-10-22 04:20 AM - Post#921061
Not going to lie. I too, had never done kb snatches before but decided to give them a go last year for quite a few weeks.
I started having hamstring strains which I rarely if ever get and I put that down to the kb snatches.
I agree. KB clean and press could be just as beneficial as snatches minus the explosiveness.
Apart from that, I like your thinking. I think glute work is covered by carries.
Andrew Gunn
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Gunny72
Total Posts: 410
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- Walk - 20 minutes
- KB snatches or kb press - 3 sets of whatever reps you feel like.
- Bar hang for one minute or greater.
- Goblet squat stretch
- Some carries.
All that in around 1/2 an hour. Just my input.
Andrew
Edited by Gunny72 on 08-10-22 04:28 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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JDII
Total Posts: 7319
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08-10-22 05:14 AM - Post#921066
So over the last couple of months my “cardio” has been a combo of walking and kettlebell work, swings, cleans, etc. So I use my treadmill, walk for 2 min then immediately go and pick up KB(s) and do swings or cleans, maybe 10, then immediately go back and walk for 2 min, etc, etc. I do about 10 rounds of this. I’ll then finish up with some Farmer’s Walks EMOM. The FWs are fairly short maybe 25 sec but I don’t rest long and it’s a good finisher. This has been one of the best “cardio “ (probably conditioning would be a better description) I’ve ever done.
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Matt_T
Total Posts: 379
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08-10-22 05:54 AM - Post#921067
What do KB snatches do better than a KB swing?
Tear your hands to pieces
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Bill Ripley
Total Posts: 213
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08-10-22 07:56 AM - Post#921069
What do KB snatches do better than a KB swing?
Strengthen the overhead position.
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BrianBinVA
Total Posts: 5140
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08-10-22 08:28 AM - Post#921070
Snatches give an upper-body/overhead element that (traditional, Russian) swings lack.
Clean and jerks, though, for my money are the superior full-body ballistic. One or two arms, depending on equipment and goals. As always, YMMV.
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Jordan D
Total Posts: 771
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08-10-22 09:34 AM - Post#921076
Dan has often mentioned that one-arm KB swings cause low back issues. Why don’t snatches have the same problem?
(I’ve never trained either enough to have any clue.)
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Brian Hassler
Total Posts: 616
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08-10-22 09:51 AM - Post#921077
Dan has often mentioned that one-arm KB swings cause low back issues. Why don’t snatches have the same problem?
(I’ve never trained either enough to have any clue.)
My guess would be that the swing projects the kb more front-to-back than the snatch, where the projection is more up and down. The snatch ends up with a shorter "lever" of force relative to the axis of skeletal support.
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BChase
Total Posts: 854
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08-10-22 11:10 AM - Post#921078
I LOVE the snatch. My favorite kettlebell exercise. However, I've been staying FAR away from it, due to I need a cap replacement in my left shoulder. Not caused by the snatch.
The problem with the snatch is it can tear your hands, hurt your shoulders and give you a nasty case of tennis elbow if not careful.
The best MED, in my opinion would be. 3 x a week, get the 24, and do 5L, 5R on the top of each minute for 10 minutes. 50/side which will get the heart rate up, but won't beat you up.
1 hour walk a day. And watch what you put in your pie hole. 15-20k steps a day is a complete waste of time. Cut out the booze and the calories.
I don't like one hand swings. Overrated. Cleans are fine, but they always lead to a press, jerk or squat. Not a standalone exercise for me.
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DanMartin
Total Posts: 20705
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WxHerk
Total Posts: 334
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08-10-22 02:26 PM - Post#921085
Dan has often mentioned that one-arm KB swings cause low back issues. Why don’t snatches have the same problem?
(I’ve never trained either enough to have any clue.)
Low back issues are usually caused by the trainee "scooping" the swing, trying to raise the bell by leaning back and raising his/her arms to end up leaned back, as opposed to "throwing" the bell forward with his/her hips and finishing in a standing plank.
The snatch ain't got this problem as one intentionally projects the bell up and down closer to the body and automatically planks to support the bell overhead.
The snatch is definitely my favorite movement. I spent most of the past couple years snatching with Al Ciampa's A &A protocol. Bottom line: 5 snatches and set the bell down until the heart rate comes down (<110 for me) or you can talk without stopping to catch your breath.
Using Al's protocol, I usually manage ~250 32kg snatches in 60~65 minutes and have done this on consecutive days several times. Outside, in the Mississippi summer, I "downbell" to the 28kg and usually manage 200~210 in an hour.
If the snatch is chewing up your hands you are likely overgripping and/or not filing your calluses.
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Jordan D
Total Posts: 771
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08-10-22 03:37 PM - Post#921088
Using Al's protocol, I usually manage ~250 32kg snatches in 60~65 minutes and have done this on consecutive days several times. Outside, in the Mississippi summer, I "downbell" to the 28kg and usually manage 200~210 in an hour.
Yeesh. Consider me intimidated.
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BChase
Total Posts: 854
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08-10-22 03:59 PM - Post#921091
Dan has often mentioned that one-arm KB swings cause low back issues. Why don’t snatches have the same problem?
(I’ve never trained either enough to have any clue.)
Low back issues are usually caused by the trainee "scooping" the swing, trying to raise the bell by leaning back and raising his/her arms to end up leaned back, as opposed to "throwing" the bell forward with his/her hips and finishing in a standing plank.
The snatch ain't got this problem as one intentionally projects the bell up and down closer to the body and automatically planks to support the bell overhead.
The snatch is definitely my favorite movement. I spent most of the past couple years snatching with Al Ciampa's A &A protocol. Bottom line: 5 snatches and set the bell down until the heart rate comes down (<110 for me) or you can talk without stopping to catch your breath.
Using Al's protocol, I usually manage ~250 32kg snatches in 60~65 minutes and have done this on consecutive days several times. Outside, in the Mississippi summer, I "downbell" to the 28kg and usually manage 200~210 in an hour.
If the snatch is chewing up your hands you are likely overgripping and/or not filing your calluses.
Always the beast, John, My elbow tendonitis is developing just reading this. Impressive. Even more impressive in the Mississippi humidity.
Great point about swinging the bell "away from you" not scooping. Almost as common as not hiking bell high enough and squatting on the swing.
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gwrows
Total Posts: 21
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08-10-22 10:04 PM - Post#921100
Double kb half snatches
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Steve Rogers
Total Posts: 6158
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08-11-22 10:32 AM - Post#921105
Dan has often mentioned that one-arm KB swings cause low back issues. Why don’t snatches have the same problem?
(I’ve never trained either enough to have any clue.)
Low back issues are usually caused by the trainee "scooping" the swing, trying to raise the bell by leaning back and raising his/her arms to end up leaned back, as opposed to "throwing" the bell forward with his/her hips and finishing in a standing plank.
The snatch ain't got this problem as one intentionally projects the bell up and down closer to the body and automatically planks to support the bell overhead.
The snatch is definitely my favorite movement. I spent most of the past couple years snatching with Al Ciampa's A &A protocol. Bottom line: 5 snatches and set the bell down until the heart rate comes down (<110 for me) or you can talk without stopping to catch your breath.
Using Al's protocol, I usually manage ~250 32kg snatches in 60~65 minutes and have done this on consecutive days several times. Outside, in the Mississippi summer, I "downbell" to the 28kg and usually manage 200~210 in an hour.
If the snatch is chewing up your hands you are likely overgripping and/or not filing your calluses.
Nowhere near this class but at 71 yo kettlebell snatches have been good to me. Leading up to my recent knee replacement I worked up to 100 reps with a 24kg bell and have done over 200 reps with a 20kg bell. You do have to practice good form and take care of your hands.
| "Coyote is always waiting, and Coyote is always hungry." |
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WxHerk
Total Posts: 334
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08-11-22 12:54 PM - Post#921110
Nowhere near this class but at 71 yo kettlebell snatches have been good to me. Leading up to my recent knee replacement I worked up to 100 reps with a 24kg bell and have done over 200 reps with a 20kg bell. You do have to practice good form and take care of your hands.
Holy Bells, Batman!! That is incredible!! You and Al are two of the guys I admiringly look up to: you two constantly and quietly show what the human body and the human spirit are capable of. I'll be 59 next month and, thanks to you and the other studs on this forum, I am honestly looking forward to my 60's, 70's, and beyond. Thank You for the inspiration..!!
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JPS2019
Total Posts: 32
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08-11-22 11:32 PM - Post#921122
Thanks for the answers all.
Recent rotator cuff tears made barbell stuff less practical, so I had started snatches with the bell. On a lark, I did them 1 handed with the barbell, and found I preferred that to the bell. I was trying to figure out what I was missing.
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Kyle Aaron
Total Posts: 1911
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08-12-22 05:53 AM - Post#921128
Some comments in here remind me of that "training for a lifetime" thing I've said a few times: the ideal (maybe) life plan - for health, not performance or looks.
Kid: just play, and maybe do calisthenics
Teen: sports
20s: quick lifts
30-50: slow lifts
50+: bodybuilding-style training
And I've always added: but if you're 50+ when you start, it's more complicated. And "start" here can stand in for any of the approaches.
When people are over 50, it's really hard to come up with an "everyone should -". It's more like, "everyone should work towards -"
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WxHerk
Total Posts: 334
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08-12-22 09:44 AM - Post#921134
It's more like, "everyone should work towards -"
Always smiling that I can read Kyle Aaron's wise insight for free....
The above quote makes as much sense as anything I've read, heard, or seen. Well put!
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WxHerk
Total Posts: 334
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08-12-22 09:48 AM - Post#921136
Even more impressive in the Mississippi humidity.
Great point about swinging the bell "away from you" not scooping. Almost as common as not hiking bell high enough and squatting on the swing.
Very kind words, Brian. I enjoy training outdoors plus believe that should I be required to be strong in a real/life situation, I'll likely be outside.
Ouch!! My back twinged when I read low hike to a squatty swing!!
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Cearball
Total Posts: 273
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08-12-22 02:34 PM - Post#921142
I often find dead snatches from the hang lowered to shoulder then ground so no backswing gets rid of alot of the hand issues.
When you want to make them harder rather than more reps/more weight try doing them from the floor each rep.
Surprising how more explosive you need to be.
When I used to do alot of classic swing style snatches I just wore weight lifting gloves.
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pink.pixie
Total Posts: 5576
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 08-16-22 05:56 AM - Post#921202
Walking is great but I believe it’s just a measure of how your mobility is doing.
Could you pls develop the thought a little bit more? Thanks.
| Aut viam inveniam aut faciam. |
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Andy Mitchell
Total Posts: 5269
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08-17-22 09:45 PM - Post#921251
Walking is great but I believe it’s just a measure of how your mobility is doing.
Could you pls develop the thought a little bit more? Thanks.
Ok my feeling is that firstly- lifting weights (unless you’re doing PL, CrossFit , bodybuilding or any activities which includes “lifting weights) is (I believe) something I do to make sure everything else is easy.
Over the years I believe too much emphasis is placed on everything except that important (lifting) practice to be “fit”
I walk when I need to and sometimes I enjoy it and because I can.
Turning it into and other activities into a pseudo weight lifting session is not a good idea (long term)
I hope I make sense I’m not a good writer lol
Nice legs-shame about the face
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brucedl
Total Posts: 2406
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08-17-22 10:17 PM - Post#921252
Perfect sense Andy. My motto is never confuse exercise with fun. If it's fun your not working hard enough. Just my 10 cents... (inflation you know).
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Andy Mitchell
Total Posts: 5269
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08-18-22 01:04 AM - Post#921258
Haha thanks mate.
Just thinking - my wife has a friend (lives on her own) who is extremely overweight at some point in time (possibly now) a significant life threatening moment for her will lead to her doctor will telling her to “exercise” and for her right now that IS just walking, a very limited walk nothing else would even be possible other that an exercise bike in front of the telly.
She’s a good person but shit-scared of the idea that she (thinks) she needs to go to F45.
Apologies for the digress
Nice legs-shame about the face
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Jordan D
Total Posts: 771
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08-18-22 11:17 AM - Post#921267
I like this thinking, because weightlifting is really the only “bio hack” that most people should ever worry about.
I differ, however, because I believe that the fundamentals of human existence are walking, sleep, and natural food. I actually think these might be more fundamental than reason and consciousness (the ability to think), because physical/mental health seem to deteriorate for everyone when they’re lacking one or more of those three things.
By walking, I mean something like 2-5 miles a day, as all the Hazda, Maasai, and other living hunter gatherers do. You’re walking that much everyday. You wake up feeling great after sleeping. You eat meat, vegetables, and fruit. Okay NOW weightlifting will make you, literally, superhuman.
Plugging it in before those things is still awesome. But there’s a general happiness that comes from walking, sleeping, and clean food that makes me think it’s a lot more important than we realize.
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DanMartin
Total Posts: 20705
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08-18-22 12:15 PM - Post#921268
...there’s a general happiness that comes from walking, sleeping, and clean food that makes me think it’s a lot more important than we realize.
Homeostasis is a beautiful thing.
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IanDV
Total Posts: 4
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08-18-22 05:17 PM - Post#921275
I know this is about snatches and walking but I did this as a sort of test session today -
15 swings 32 kg bell
5 press up
320 meter brisk walk ( the distance around the block where I live )
Completed 5 rounds.
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DanMartin
Total Posts: 20705
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08-18-22 07:00 PM - Post#921277
I know this is about snatches and walking but I did this as a sort of test session today -
15 swings 32 kg bell
5 press up
320 meter brisk walk ( the distance around the block where I live )
Completed 5 rounds.
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iPood
Total Posts: 2360
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08-19-22 12:45 PM - Post#921290
I like this thinking, because weightlifting is really the only “bio hack” that most people should ever worry about.
I differ, however, because I believe that the fundamentals of human existence are walking, sleep, and natural food. I actually think these might be more fundamental than reason and consciousness (the ability to think), because physical/mental health seem to deteriorate for everyone when they’re lacking one or more of those three things.
By walking, I mean something like 2-5 miles a day, as all the Hazda, Maasai, and other living hunter gatherers do. You’re walking that much everyday. You wake up feeling great after sleeping. You eat meat, vegetables, and fruit. Okay NOW weightlifting will make you, literally, superhuman.
Plugging it in before those things is still awesome. But there’s a general happiness that comes from walking, sleeping, and clean food that makes me think it’s a lot more important than we realize.
I will now add you to the official list of people who must write a book, whether they want it or not.
And I will nag you about it every now and then. 
"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness
and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums.
It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable.
Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow.
Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't."
Dan Martin |
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Andy Mitchell
Total Posts: 5269
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08-19-22 07:08 PM - Post#921304
I like this thinking, because weightlifting is really the only “bio hack” that most people should ever worry about.
I differ, however, because I believe that the fundamentals of human existence are walking, sleep, and natural food. I actually think these might be more fundamental than reason and consciousness (the ability to think), because physical/mental health seem to deteriorate for everyone when they’re lacking one or more of those three things.
By walking, I mean something like 2-5 miles a day, as all the Hazda, Maasai, and other living hunter gatherers do. You’re walking that much everyday. You wake up feeling great after sleeping. You eat meat, vegetables, and fruit. Okay NOW weightlifting will make you, literally, superhuman.
Plugging it in before those things is still awesome. But there’s a general happiness that comes from walking, sleeping, and clean food that makes me think it’s a lot more important than we realize.
Nice.
But I wasn’t necessarily thinking just lifting weights but any activity which pushes you to your “safe” limits all the other things like; sleeping, eating and walking (moving) are supportive, it’s just that what we do in the gym has replaced activities like “chopping wood” gotta keep chopping wood…
Nice legs-shame about the face
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Jordan D
Total Posts: 771
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08-20-22 11:52 AM - Post#921325
I will now add you to the official list of people who must write a book, whether they want it or not.
And I will nag you about it every now and then.
Ha, I'll only do it if Dan writes the Forward and Uncle Al pops a double biceps pose on the cover.
Nice.
But I wasn’t necessarily thinking just lifting weights but any activity which pushes you to your “safe” limits all the other things like; sleeping, eating and walking (moving) are supportive, it’s just that what we do in the gym has replaced activities like “chopping wood” gotta keep chopping wood…
I'd rather that word "supportive" be "foundational," because that's where it all starts -- with the basics. But, yes, I totally agree with you. I think most people can't even conceptualize how much humans moved, worked, struggled, and exerted force against the planet or all history prior to the last half-century. There's a reason why lifting weights feels so good mentally. The body needs occasional struggle.
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DanMartin
Total Posts: 20705
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08-20-22 01:15 PM - Post#921326
I will now add you to the official list of people who must write a book, whether they want it or not.
And I will nag you about it every now and then.
Ha, I'll only do it if Dan writes the Forward and Uncle Al pops a double biceps pose on the cover.
Nice.
But I wasn’t necessarily thinking just lifting weights but any activity which pushes you to your “safe” limits all the other things like; sleeping, eating and walking (moving) are supportive, it’s just that what we do in the gym has replaced activities like “chopping wood” gotta keep chopping wood…
I'd rather that word "supportive" be "foundational," because that's where it all starts -- with the basics. But, yes, I totally agree with you. I think most people can't even conceptualize how much humans moved, worked, struggled, and exerted force against the planet or all history prior to the last half-century. There's a reason why lifting weights feels so good mentally. The body needs occasional struggle.
We could co-author a pamphlet.
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iPood
Total Posts: 2360
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08-20-22 02:20 PM - Post#921330
[We could co-author a pamphlet.
YES!
"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness
and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums.
It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable.
Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow.
Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't."
Dan Martin |
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Jordan D
Total Posts: 771
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08-20-22 04:41 PM - Post#921332
[We could co-author a pamphlet.
YES!
“The Underground Secrets of Snatch and Walk”
Certification program forthcoming!
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AAnnunz
Total Posts: 24932
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Jordan D
Total Posts: 771
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Good Lord, those guns. Now that’s how you get a best-seller!
(Though the prison calendar photo would surely get double sales in the lady’s Romance section.)
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pink.pixie
Total Posts: 5576
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 08-21-22 05:27 PM - Post#921343
.... lifting weights is something I do to make sure everything else is easy.
I walk when I need to and sometimes I enjoy it and because I can.
Thanks Andy. Right so.
| Aut viam inveniam aut faciam. |
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pink.pixie
Total Posts: 5576
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Basics 08-21-22 05:44 PM - Post#921344
I like this thinking, because weightlifting is really the only “bio hack” that most people should ever worry about.
[....]
I believe that the fundamentals of human existence are walking, sleep, and natural food.
They all feed into each other to create synergy. Maintaining strength is essential. Clean water and clean air are important, too and unfortunately no longer given.
Thanks guys.
| Aut viam inveniam aut faciam. |
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