Old Miler
Total Posts: 1744
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06-30-22 07:21 PM - Post#920213
Hi all,
My wife and I are about to try a new diet, so I'm posting here partly to put a bit of pressure on myself; and it will be interesting to report back.
Last 3 months were peak "work stress" season for me, reduced training, and we both have a bit much around the waist. In 10 days we are driving across Europe, and in 2 weeks we'll be meeting many old friends at the seaside village where we go each summer - hopefully working very part-time and with time to get a lot of exercise in.
Anyway, yesterday an old friend came past on his bike. He was once an international 800m runner, but got fatter over 30 years, until his doc looked at some things and told him to lose some weight fast. Well, he's lost 14kg in 60 days and is bouncing with energy, so I asked him how. He followed Dr. Michael Mosley's book, the (highly appropriately named) "Fast 800 diet", a book which I also devoured last night. He's adamant that it was actually easy, and he's riding his bike as hard as he did on a normal diet and enjoying it.
So, it seems worth a go. The first phase is 800-900 calories per day, with <50g carbs, and lots of protein, non-starch veggies and good fats. So it sounds a lot like Dan's Velocity diet, or protein-sparing modified fasts. If nothing else, I hope to find out what ketosis feels like for just a few days, and to see if my eternal urge to binge on sweet stuff drops away.
For those outside UK, Michael Mosley is one of our top "TV docs", regularly popularising health issues and doing experiments in documentaries. He was diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes 12 years ago, but fixed it with a diet, and since then has been doing a lot of public experiments. The book, in my view, is brilliant (and cheap at £5 on kindle). It's based on putting 46,000 people through an earlier version of the programme. It manages to cover a lot of very new research from around the world presented in a really readable manner; lots of pragmatic motivating advice (all the usual stuff discussed here); and some very nice recipes in the back. He's also a really charming and entertaining writer, kind of like a Dan John from the nutrition world.
Anyway, I'm kicking off at 77kg (of which I am 100% sure 5kg is surplus belly fat, as there's none anywhere else on me). It will be interesting what happens in 2 weeks.
--
I'd also be very interested to hear how it felt, and how the results were, from anyone else here who went on a short sharp keto-type diet..
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lucktree
Total Posts: 890
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Good luck!
| Power is nothing without control! |
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Matt_T
Total Posts: 379
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07-01-22 02:28 AM - Post#920224
Moseley introduced me to intermittent fasting, in 2012/13. I've never looked back.
For me the 16/8 works better for active folks, the 'fast day' worked insanely well for a bit, but when the wall hit, it hit hard - so hard it knocked every bit of muscle off me (not that I had much to begin with). GF did it too, to shift 'baby weight' - exactly the same experience.
Doesn't have to be one or the other saying that, 16/8 with the odd day where you shorten the eating window/calories works great too.
As with anything IF I always recommend people check out Leangains (not the Ed Kroc Kinobody version). You won't find much on there for the endurance athlete,
and quite a lot is behind a pay wall, but some great articles on fasting (and probably the best one on strength training I've ever read too, called "f@£&arounditis").
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Dan John
Total Posts: 12292
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07-01-22 10:38 AM - Post#920227
I have, I think, all of his books. He has materials on Tabata, gut biome, quick workouts, IF, and this newer one (I think!).
Certainly, he takes what the researchers say and makes it palatable.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...
Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you |
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Matt_T
Total Posts: 379
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07-01-22 04:54 PM - Post#920233
I have, I think, all of his books. He has materials on Tabata, gut biome, quick workouts, IF, and this newer one (I think!).
Certainly, he takes what the researchers say and makes it palatable.
He managed to make not eating palatable for me
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Old Miler
Total Posts: 1744
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07-01-22 04:59 PM - Post#920234
I've been on 16/8 pretty often - several days per week - and it keeps me within 5-6kg of my ideal weight, despite all kinds of after-dinner indulgence. What will be new for us, and interesting, is eliminating carbs, and seeing if this "ketosis" thing happens.
Day 1 was pretty easy - mid-morning omelette with spinach and mushrooms; ten almonds after a run; and a really delicious meal at a local Turkish restaurant, just no bread to mop the sauce up!
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Matt_T
Total Posts: 379
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07-01-22 05:09 PM - Post#920235
I've been on 16/8 pretty often - several days per week - and it keeps me within 5-6kg of my ideal weight, despite all kinds of after-dinner indulgence. What will be new for us, and interesting, is eliminating carbs, and seeing if this "ketosis" thing happens.
Day 1 was pretty easy - mid-morning omelette with spinach and mushrooms; ten almonds after a run; and a really delicious meal at a local Turkish restaurant, just no bread to mop the sauce up!
Just use some chicken
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jamej
Total Posts: 510
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07-02-22 12:21 PM - Post#920251
I fought the battle of the bulge my entire life until, I started a an almost exclusively beef and egg diet. It is great. At 65 a just keep slowly losing eight and gaining muscle. I don't remember when I felt this good.
Good luck to you,
Jim
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Jordan D
Total Posts: 771
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07-02-22 01:34 PM - Post#920256
I fought the battle of the bulge my entire life until, I started a an almost exclusively beef and egg diet. It is great. At 65 a just keep slowly losing eight and gaining muscle. I don't remember when I felt this good.
Good luck to you,
Jim
Amen to this.
Everyone I know who's loved the "carnivore" diet eventually added berries, fruit, and vegetables back in, usually in that order. And that's pretty much how I've eaten for ten years. Copious beef and pastured eggs, plenty of veggies and fruit, and never sweating the details. It's human, intuitive, doesn't require a calculator, and as far as I can tell, it never fails.
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Old Miler
Total Posts: 1744
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07-03-22 03:27 AM - Post#920259
Two days in. 74.8 this morning, and the strips tell me I'm in moderate ketosis.
That's a nice surprise. We've both felt fine both days, hardly any hunger pangs even 6-7 hours after eating, and absolutely even energy levels.
I did manage a 5 mile run - very slow - yesterday. Definitely at fat-burning paces, with a strong 'urge to walk' at times. I guess that's to be expected
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Old Miler
Total Posts: 1744
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07-03-22 06:27 AM - Post#920261
Reminder to self that measurement protocols matter!
Weight 75.2.
(We have an old house with no totally flat floors. Depending on which bathroom floor tile the scales sit on, things can vary a lot! We picked the median position. So henceforth, I will stand in front of the bathroom window and face toward Utah....)
More importantly, I thought to take a steel tape measure and check my waist AND the widest part of the belly. I had been naively believing the clothes stores which, I am now convinced, lie to flatter us; I'm wearing generally wearing 32-33" trousers. BUT the steel tape says 36, and the peak of the pot belly is a whopping 37".
This summer's mission is now totally clear.
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Justin Jordan
Total Posts: 854
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07-03-22 12:33 PM - Post#920262
Every couple of months I shatter a lot of people's self image by telling them that the waist measurements on their pants are a lie.
And that's before you take it that most people don't wear them at their waist or navel ANYWAY.
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BChase
Total Posts: 854
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07-04-22 07:32 AM - Post#920272
800-900 calories a day is not sustainable in my conceited opinion.
2 days in is water weight and glycogen loss.
Keto flu coming any moment now.
Learn good habits and eat like an adult. Don't weigh yourself. Measure around your navel once a week.
If you've, eaten clean, exercised, plus a 45 minute walk, drank enough water, you're on the right track.
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Justin Jordan
Total Posts: 854
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07-04-22 10:30 AM - Post#920275
The 800 calories isn't meant to be sustainable.
It's a break in period of that (and even then, optional) then 5 days of normal eating and two non consecutive days of 800 calories.
(Along with 16/8 fasting and a Mediterrean diet)
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Matt_T
Total Posts: 379
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07-04-22 10:50 AM - Post#920276
Would also add weight on the scale v strength in the gym the most reliable measure of fat loss there is in my experience. That and the mirror.
Lighter and stronger = you have burned some fat.
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Old Miler
Total Posts: 1744
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07-04-22 04:07 PM - Post#920281
Day 3 (yesterday)
- hungry, ate a bit more than planned, 1300 cal and 50g net carbs; slipped out of keto according to the strip
- went out for a run, but legs trashed. Lifted instead, that felt normal
- having fun trying to make the nicest meals we can this way. This is SO much easier with my wife and I trying it together, shopping and cooking. Last night's BBQ: prawns with ginger and lime, chicken in nice marinades, giant mushrooms with butter and garlic, lots of salad
- no weird symptoms whatsoever
Still woke up 400g lighter this morning.
Day 4:
- fast until noon (luckily monday mornings are too busy to think about food much!)
- 5 miles of easy interval running, slow but felt fine. I guess you recover more slowly, so maybe I'll alternate runs and weights this week.
- Omelette and an avocado for lunch
- went shopping for low-carb goodies. Loaded up on prawns, chicken, veg, seeds, berries
- dinner: BBQ burgers with all the trimmings (caramelised onion, beef, avoado, boursin cheese, bacon - just between two lettuce leaves). I laughed my head off when I first saw someone that years ago, but it actually works and you get 95% of the burger sensation
- back in moderate keto (4.0 mol, according to strip)
I'm stuffed to the brim, I've hit more nutrient targets on cronometer than I tended to pre-diet, yet I'm just on 700 net calories (1200 eaten minus 500 run). I can see now why this is so much easier to follow than other diets.
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BChase
Total Posts: 854
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The 800 is 800 calories of a Mediterranean diet ranging from 2-12 weeks.
5:2 is fasting twice a week and have 500 calories non-consecutive days while eating normal the other 5 days?
So phase 1 is at least two weeks of 800 which is basically PSMF and then do 5:2
Good luck Old Miler, I sincerely mean that.
Here lies the problem, motivation lasts so long and we all fall back into bad habit, myself included. New habits need to be created.
For last 2+ months I've committed to fasting 1 day a week for 38-40 hours. And have been able to maintain weight even through 2 weeks of business travel followed up by the 4th weekend.
I am awful at moderation and would not be able to cap it at either 800 or 500 calories.
Edited by BChase on 07-05-22 03:15 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Matt_T
Total Posts: 379
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07-05-22 03:19 PM - Post#920303
I hear that. I struggle to stop at 8000 or even 5000 calories.
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Kyle Aaron
Total Posts: 1911
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Mosley has good intentions, but notice he never follows up 12 months later to see how they're going. There's a reason for that.
"Eat like an adult," some guy said. Might be worth trying.
Sorry. That's as polite as I can put it.
Edited by Kyle Aaron on 07-06-22 02:03 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Matt_T
Total Posts: 379
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Mosley has good intentions, but notice he never follows up 12 months later to see how they're going. There's a reason for that.
Is it because he's a television producer, not a researcher?
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Jordan D
Total Posts: 771
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07-06-22 08:17 AM - Post#920310
In contemplating all this, I had a strange insight: we used to call it a beer belly because…pounding a 6-pack every night was the literally only way to accrue that much fat.
Prior to the engineering of franken-foods, it just wasn’t possible! Beer was the only culprit! Crazy.
O brave new world.
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Dan John
Total Posts: 12292
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07-06-22 09:17 AM - Post#920314
That's an interesting insight.
When I was young, men used to stick out their bellies to delight children on the beach (I have pictures of my family doing this).
However, everyone in the pictures is lean. And, compared to 2022, in great shape.
No diets. Certainly, no exercise for these WWII vets!
Yet, everyone is relatively lean.
I like your point, Jordan...it constantly keeps earholing on me: how did we all just get so fat.
In 500 years, teens will shrug and say: "It was the X." I wish I knew, with confidence, what the X is now.
Plastic?
Frankenfoods?
????
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...
Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you |
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Justin Jordan
Total Posts: 854
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07-06-22 09:45 AM - Post#920315
Eat like an adult is good general advice.
For an individual, unless you know they're eating garbage, it's condescending and can border on a thought terminating heuristic.
It ALSO includes the idea that 'eating like an adult' will solve all your weight woes.
It may, it may not.
I can tell you that I remain overfat eating like an adult. In any given week I may eat one meal with a processed food* in it (generally, in the summer, I have soft serve ice cream once a week) but my day to day diet is chicken , beef, yogurt, beans, nuts and veggies.
None of which is deep fried or breaded. Do me the favor and before you 'what about me' assume I am, in fact, an adult and not eating garbage.
But for a lot of people who have gotten too fat too begin with, 'eat like an adult' as described by Dan, is not enough to get lean.
It's a great recipe for not getting fat to begin with**. It's a good first prescription for people who need to lose weight, because maybe it will be enough.
It's not a panacea.
*As is general understood. You could quibble that greek yogurt is processed, in some sense, but you know what I mean.
** And indeed, this remains a common flaw in thinking about fat - the advice that would keep you from getting fat to begin with won't necessarily be sufficient to get you back once you're there.
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mprevost
Total Posts: 816
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07-06-22 09:56 AM - Post#920316
The X is likely to be more than one thing. A 100 calorie per day excess (small slice of bread) leads to approx 8 lb weight gain per year. That is only a 5% overage. Tight tolerances. Small perturbations in that energy balance system can have huge impacts over a 10 year period. Combine that with more sitting and less activity overall and it’s easy to tilt the balance to fat gain. We keep looking for big things but it is likely small things adding up that is the culprit. Really, I am surprised it is not worse.
www.mikeprevost.com
"The quality of movement, I think, trumps load...unless it is a contest about load." Dan John |
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DanMartin
Total Posts: 20705
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07-06-22 11:27 AM - Post#920317
That's an interesting insight.
When I was young, men used to stick out their bellies to delight children on the beach (I have pictures of my family doing this).
However, everyone in the pictures is lean. And, compared to 2022, in great shape.
No diets. Certainly, no exercise for these WWII vets!
Yet, everyone is relatively lean.
I like your point, Jordan...it constantly keeps earholing on me: how did we all just get so fat.
In 500 years, teens will shrug and say: "It was the X." I wish I knew, with confidence, what the X is now.
Plastic?
Frankenfoods?
????
Food, in general, will always be the culprit. The "X" factor or factors is activity (calories burned) and the quality of the protein, fat and carbohydrates ingested. Naturally there are others, but they don't matter as much as those two by a long shot. YMMV
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BChase
Total Posts: 854
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07-06-22 05:26 PM - Post#920323
The reason people are more obese today than 50 years ago is......
We as societies overeat and drink more which replaces smoking. 40-50% of the population smoked regularly back then.
Today, smokers are outcasts. We've replaced one bad habit with 2 others. Craft beers and regular Budweiser have MUCH more alcohol than your Schlitz, Miller and Schafer.
There is now the mommy/wine culture as well. Throw in Cosmos(loaded with sugar) Margeritas (loaded with sugar).
Nothing makes me gain weight quicker than weekend drinking.
Losing weight is hard and takes a long time.
Justin, no judgement here.
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Matt_T
Total Posts: 379
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Old Miler
Total Posts: 1744
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Hi all. Checking in after one week.
Yesterday we had people round, I "took a break" and ate 3 small pieces of bread (we did burgers). Today Karma smote me - a piece of mackerel at 2pm, a 7 mile run at 5pm, and somehow I had gained 1.5kg. I thought I was stably 2 kilos down, and hope I still am in the morning. (Note next morning: phew, back at 74.9)
Apart from that, what I have noticed:
1. this is SOOO much easier than all other diets I tried. Eating nice food, generally feeling full even on 1000 calories a day.
2. Energy levels even all day, in a way I never experienced before.
3. no "keto flu", hunger pangs or anything
4. Running or any metabolic exercise is hard; slow at the time, and takes 2x longer to recover. I might adapt, but not a diet for an athlete.
Tomorrow night will be a break; I will be celebrating the possibility that the UK becomes a democracy again. Thereafter we have a week on the road across Europe to where we holiday. In the past this was "high risk time" with a lot of junk, pastries, bakeries etc, but we reckon we can go 16/8 and keto until evening, and then have a drink or two. So, one more week to go. Then it's holiday time - hopefully a bit slimmer - and the start of a bit of a "training camp".
Edited by Old Miler on 07-08-22 02:45 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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dan44
Total Posts: 103
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Hi all. Checking in after one week.
Yesterday we had people round, I "took a break" and ate 3 small pieces of bread (we did burgers). Today Karma smote me - a piece of mackerel at 2pm, a 7 mile run at 5pm, and somehow I had gained 1.5kg. I thought I was stably 2 kilos down, and hope I still am in the morning. (Note next morning: phew, back at 74.9)
Apart from that, what I have noticed:
1. this is SOOO much easier than all other diets I tried. Eating nice food, generally feeling full even on 1000 calories a day.
2. Energy levels even all day, in a way I never experienced before.
3. no "keto flu", hunger pangs or anything
4. Running or any metabolic exercise is hard; slow at the time, and takes 2x longer to recover. I might adapt, but not a diet for an athlete.
Tomorrow night will be a break; I will be celebrating the possibility that the UK becomes a democracy again. Thereafter we have a week on the road across Europe to where we holiday. In the past this was "high risk time" with a lot of junk, pastries, bakeries etc, but we reckon we can go 16/8 and keto until evening, and then have a drink or two. So, one more week to go. Then it's holiday time - hopefully a bit slimmer - and the start of a bit of a "training camp".
good luck with the diet, i find the 16/8 is the way to go too and allows for some booze!
As for ' I will be celebrating the possibility that the UK becomes a democracy again' - the Electrical Commission declared the election fair, where you impeded from voting? or just 'sore' with the democratic process witch didn't align to your perspective.
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Matt_T
Total Posts: 379
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Hi all. Checking in after one week.
Yesterday we had people round, I "took a break" and ate 3 small pieces of bread (we did burgers). Today Karma smote me - a piece of mackerel at 2pm, a 7 mile run at 5pm, and somehow I had gained 1.5kg. I thought I was stably 2 kilos down, and hope I still am in the morning. (Note next morning: phew, back at 74.9)
Apart from that, what I have noticed:
1. this is SOOO much easier than all other diets I tried. Eating nice food, generally feeling full even on 1000 calories a day.
2. Energy levels even all day, in a way I never experienced before.
3. no "keto flu", hunger pangs or anything
4. Running or any metabolic exercise is hard; slow at the time, and takes 2x longer to recover. I might adapt, but not a diet for an athlete.
Tomorrow night will be a break; I will be celebrating the possibility that the UK becomes a democracy again. Thereafter we have a week on the road across Europe to where we holiday. In the past this was "high risk time" with a lot of junk, pastries, bakeries etc, but we reckon we can go 16/8 and keto until evening, and then have a drink or two. So, one more week to go. Then it's holiday time - hopefully a bit slimmer - and the start of a bit of a "training camp".
good luck with the diet, i find the 16/8 is the way to go too and allows for some booze!
As for ' I will be celebrating the possibility that the UK becomes a democracy again' - the Electrical Commission declared the election fair, where you impeded from voting? or just 'sore' with the democratic process witch didn't align to your perspective.
Whaaattt...? The "democratic process" invited people to vote in favour of a pack of lies, which hid the reality of a country imposing economic sanctions on itself (and especially its poorest).
The only reason not to celebrate is the rotten fruit at the top might have fallen but the whole fascist tree is yet to burn to the ground.
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BChase
Total Posts: 854
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Hi all. Checking in after one week.
Yesterday we had people round, I "took a break" and ate 3 small pieces of bread (we did burgers). Today Karma smote me - a piece of mackerel at 2pm, a 7 mile run at 5pm, and somehow I had gained 1.5kg. I thought I was stably 2 kilos down, and hope I still am in the morning. (Note next morning: phew, back at 74.9)
Apart from that, what I have noticed:
1. this is SOOO much easier than all other diets I tried. Eating nice food, generally feeling full even on 1000 calories a day.
2. Energy levels even all day, in a way I never experienced before.
3. no "keto flu", hunger pangs or anything
4. Running or any metabolic exercise is hard; slow at the time, and takes 2x longer to recover. I might adapt, but not a diet for an athlete.
Tomorrow night will be a break; I will be celebrating the possibility that the UK becomes a democracy again. Thereafter we have a week on the road across Europe to where we holiday. In the past this was "high risk time" with a lot of junk, pastries, bakeries etc, but we reckon we can go 16/8 and keto until evening, and then have a drink or two. So, one more week to go. Then it's holiday time - hopefully a bit slimmer - and the start of a bit of a "training camp".
This is why I said above not to weigh yourself. You seem resilient enough to not let it bother you. For others they're not. Glad to see 1-4 steps are working for you. Even slow runs.
The only thing politicians care about is lining their pockets, not yours. Too bad Boris was so corrupt
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Kyle Aaron
Total Posts: 1911
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07-08-22 08:47 PM - Post#920350
I had this woman come check out my gym last week. Twenty years of non-specific lower back pain. Nothing structurally wrong, no injury history. Just pain every day, for twenty years.
Said she couldn't lift more than 3kg. Also said her husband a radiologist had told her not to come. It's unclear whether he was undermining her to keep her weak and helpless, as men sometimes do, or she was using him as an excuse.
Physically she was fine, just weak. Box-squatted with a 5kg plate, pressed an 8kg bar overhead, rack-pulled 20kg.
She's not come back, of course. Twenty years of pain, should you not perhaps reassess your approach? Twenty years of other people undermining you, or of you using them as an excuse, should you not perhaps reassess your relationship with them?
For "back pain" substitute "obesity", and we're having the same conversation.
We'd all like to feel unique and special and have someone or something else to blame. Yes, all that other stuff does matter. But you should still eat like an adult. Doing a starvation diet and breaking it in the first week isn't it.
Our genetics and circumstances influence us, but do not determine us. What to do is simple, it is not easy. Our genetics and circumstances influence how easy it is, but it's not truly easy for anyone.
If you've been obese, in pain, with bad relationships, in a job you hate, etc, for twenty years, reassess.
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Jordan D
Total Posts: 771
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07-09-22 10:53 AM - Post#920356
We'd all like to feel unique and special and have someone or something else to blame. Yes, all that other stuff does matter. But you should still eat like an adult. Doing a starvation diet and breaking it in the first week isn't it.
Our genetics and circumstances influence us, but do not determine us. What to do is simple, it is not easy. Our genetics and circumstances influence how easy it is, but it's not truly easy for anyone.
If you've been obese, in pain, with bad relationships, in a job you hate, etc, for twenty years, reassess.
I suspect most people literally aren't capable of reassessing. They can desire something, but can't muster up the mental or physical effort, and it's probably futile to expect them to. I'm also sure this applies to all of us, to varying degrees at various times in our lives, to various aspects of our being that we ignore. I, for example, would love to master some new blues riffs on guitar, but can't muster up the effort. The incentive isn't there. I know it would take a year of practice. But if I saw a fancy, intense, online course that promised I'd master the blues in 4 weeks...hmmm, interesting. Do they have some secret I don't know? Maybe? Hmmm. In just 4 weeks?
To this end, maybe the issue for most people isn't knowing what to do, but fear of the amount of time it will take. Hence the attractiveness of extreme diets.
Also, Old Miler, don't sweat the weight. It's all water. I've been upping my carbs for some hard training lately, eating white rice twice a week, and each time I gain 3lbs the next morning. It's gone a day later.
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Justin Jordan
Total Posts: 854
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07-09-22 07:54 PM - Post#920361
It's medium hilarious that people are so against doing a PSMF for two weeks on THIS forum, considering Dan himself did exactly that this year.
You know, the person who coined the phrase 'eat like an adult'.
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BChase
Total Posts: 854
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It's medium hilarious that people are so against doing a PSMF for two weeks on THIS forum, considering Dan himself did exactly that this year.
You know, the person who coined the phrase 'eat like an adult'.
Then do it. It's a miserable experience. No cheat days, no nuts, cheat meals or Greek Yogurt. You were the one commenting how hard it is for you to lose weight by eating like an adult. Put some money where your keyboard is.
Dan also somehow survived the Velocity Diet in its original form. I can't imagine that has a better than 5% success rate. And those who fail are stuck with expired protein powder.
Edited by BChase on 07-10-22 02:16 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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tom6112
Total Posts: 846
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07-10-22 08:43 PM - Post#920364
Old miler a few questions.
Your height?
Have you added much muscle since your best running years.
I did my best running around 145-150 pounds.
But added 30 pounds of muscle when I started lifting
Ha
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Andy Mitchell
Total Posts: 5269
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The practice of lifting and eating is all very screwy at the moment the motivation has got to come from within “you” and making mistakes is important.
We (people) rely so heavily on dietitians and personal trainers.
Here’s a question or scenario which I think is related
A dudes goal is to bench press 150 for 10 rep’s his personal trainer by his side since the start, he achieves his goal of ten.
Do we congratulate the PT or the trainee?
As opposed to “the doing” by yourself.
Nice legs-shame about the face
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Edited by Andy Mitchell on 07-10-22 09:24 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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tom6112
Total Posts: 846
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07-10-22 10:26 PM - Post#920367
My weight has been around 210 for a long time.
It should be around 185. I walk or run every day 10 to 15 thousand steps a day . Lift twice a week.
I worked on my house this weekend. I feel great, have energy and take no prescriptions. But I have fat on my stomach. I eat fruit and vegetables every day, drink water. I just can’t keep motivated to diet for more than a few days.breakfast is peanut butter on wheat bread and milk. Lunch beans or soup. Dinner beef and vegetables. In the evening i mix fruit, and milk and chocolate in a blender. I can only drop weight if I am doing a lot of physical work
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Gunny72
Total Posts: 410
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The X is likely to be more than one thing. A 100 calorie per day excess (small slice of bread) leads to approx 8 lb weight gain per year. That is only a 5% overage. Tight tolerances. Small perturbations in that energy balance system can have huge impacts over a 10 year period. Combine that with more sitting and less activity overall and it’s easy to tilt the balance to fat gain. We keep looking for big things but it is likely small things adding up that is the culprit. Really, I am surprised it is not worse.
I reckon you are pretty well spot on.
Only a few weeks back, I was at a restaurant and an old photo casually hung from the wall caught my immediate attention.
The photo was taken around the 1930's to 1940's era I am guessing. In it, were about 50 adults and children from a variety of age groups boarding from an old steam ship. Everyone was immaculately dressed. The men in their finest suits and top hats and the women in their best flowing dresses.
However, it was their physiques that caught my attention. There was not one overweight individual amongst them. Not one! They all looked fit and healthy.
This then got me thinking deeply as I sipped on my Glass of red. What did they do differently to the current generations that made them look so healthy, despite gyms not being the norm back then, the word diet or Dietician was probably not even invented and exercise probably wasn't subscribed or recommended by the local doctor.
After much thought, I came to the conclusion that it was incidental exercise and perhaps their lack of food choices that gave them their trim physiques.
In today's western world, we don't walk, we drive or scooter to our destination. Most kids get driven to school or catch a bus just a couple of stops instead of walking for 20 minutes. Our sedentary lifestyles have made us soft and weak.
Sure, a few of us might lift weights and run occasionally (less then 40% of general population) but even that might not be enough to shed the extra kilos that can creep onto you stealthily over time.
w
Why? Because due to our efficient and effective modern world, our lack of incidental exercise and our sedentary lifestyles are killing us.
When I was a kid in the 1980's, we had to even get off our backsides to turn on the t.v or change the channel for heaven's forbid!!!!!!!!
Andrew Gunn
Edited by Gunny72 on 07-11-22 12:18 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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WxHerk
Total Posts: 334
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Simple. In the US, go into any WalMart and you'll see a GIANT tub full of candy bars. Every supermarket checkout has a cooler stocked with full/sugar sodas, plus every kind of candy and sugary gum stocked right where you put your groceries on the conveyor belt. Plus, the supermarket is full of boxes of cheap, instant empty carbs.
TV advertising has convinced "us" that sugary, empty cereal is a real breakfast and if you put the magical words " whole grain" on the box it is automatically healthy and will miraculously melt the blubber from your body and the fitness fairy will magically appear and with a wave of his/her/they/their magic wand will grant you the six pack that you "deserve!" Because the TV advertising is telling you that "you deserve this and you deserve that" and your life will be just like the happy people on their commercials and you will have a six pack just like the models playing volleyball on that commercial but ONLY if you drink their brand of light beer!! Oh, and if you are still fat, sick, and weak it certainly isn't YOUR fault!!
Speaking of TV advertising, they've done a fantastic job of convincing people that one can order a "meal" by talking into a clown's mouth and that sauce covered dough with cheese and a few fatty pepperonis on top is a "meal."
Exercise is complicated, everyone knows that. Of course, our gyms are full:
from January 2nd to the 10th.......
People don't have time for exercise. But they do have time to "keep up with the Kardashians," and they can tell you who won American Idol and who said what on Twitter....
Most people know what to eat and what not to eat, what to drink and what not to drink. I ate ice cream last night. I knew better. (Obscene action verb deleted) it. I ate a few spoonfuls, knowing full well what it does to me.
Most people know better and would like to do better. Very, very few want to do better. I define "would like to" as kinda sorta doing it for a few days (in my mirror of late) and then complaining about not progressing whereas "want to" is pinning your ears back, gritting your teeth, and forging straight ahead, come hell or high water.
In the past nine years when I have trained or participated in the training of hundreds of people (but not for pay, so my experience is skewed) I have seen four cases of "want to" and it was a sight to behold!!
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Justin Jordan
Total Posts: 854
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07-11-22 11:05 AM - Post#920372
Yeah, also: the no overweight people thing is a myth.
People were overall less fat, and a lot less were seriously obese, but the first Atkins book came out fifty years ago, and it sold millions THEN.
Before that was the Drinking Man's Diet, Fletcherizing, you name it. Heck, Banting's Letter On Corpulence, To The Public, sold 63,000 copies in England, in 1863.
Don't get caught in Golden Age fantasies.
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Justin Jordan
Total Posts: 854
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It's medium hilarious that people are so against doing a PSMF for two weeks on THIS forum, considering Dan himself did exactly that this year.
You know, the person who coined the phrase 'eat like an adult'.
Then do it. It's a miserable experience. No cheat days, no nuts, cheat meals or Greek Yogurt. You were the one commenting how hard it is for you to lose weight by eating like an adult. Put some money where your keyboard is.
Dan also somehow survived the Velocity Diet in its original form. I can't imagine that has a better than 5% success rate. And those who fail are stuck with expired protein powder.
I HAVE done it. And the Velocity Diet, and a bunch of other things.
There's a reasonable chance I'm the most successful 'dieter' here - I've kept off seventyish pounds for more than a decade.
My insight, such as it is, is that basically everyone needs to figure out what works for them, and what helps you lose weight might not be the same as what helped you lose it.
Not everything is sustainable. It doesn't necessarily have to be. The 10K Swing Challenge isn't sustainable (for most mortals), doesn't mean it's not worth doing.
This particular thing has a two week hard period followed by an indefinite period of loss/maintainance? Will it be sustainable for Old Miler?
No clue. Everything works. Nothing works. For me, eating 800 calories twice a week is not a big deal - it'd require no particular amount of mental effort and I'd feel fine.
But I also know for other people it's impossible to make work. I know I can't manage a vegan diet or, for that matter, a straight carnivore diet. But there's people who can.
(In those cases, I'm not sure they SHOULD, necessarily, but almost everything is better than how the average Western person eats)
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Sean S
Total Posts: 44
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07-11-22 11:52 AM - Post#920374
My weight has been around 210 for a long time.
It should be around 185. I walk or run every day 10 to 15 thousand steps a day . Lift twice a week.
I worked on my house this weekend. I feel great, have energy and take no prescriptions. But I have fat on my stomach. I eat fruit and vegetables every day, drink water. I just can’t keep motivated to diet for more than a few days.breakfast is peanut butter on wheat bread and milk. Lunch beans or soup. Dinner beef and vegetables. In the evening i mix fruit, and milk and chocolate in a blender. I can only drop weight if I am doing a lot of physical work
Why "should" you weigh 185 instead of your current weight? I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm genuinely curious. It sounds like you feel good, are very physically capable, and don't have any significant health issues. Is it a matter of looking better (which is perfectly valid) or are their other health markers it would help?
I only ask because over the years thinking I "should" be some certain weight or I "should" be able to lift some amount has probably caused more problems than it has solved. Trying to feel good, minimize aches and pains, and being able to do the physical activities that I enjoy are my measurement standards instead of particular numbers. In fairness, I know what weight range I need for those things and I look relatively "good" (i.e. lean) at that size.
If I pick the normal BMI range standard I have to restrict my diet to the point of feeling bad and making my health worse (I've tried). If I pick the hardcore lifter's standard for size I end up feeling beat up, stiff, and unable to enjoy activities that involve very much walking, running, or jumping.
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BChase
Total Posts: 854
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It's medium hilarious that people are so against doing a PSMF for two weeks on THIS forum, considering Dan himself did exactly that this year.
You know, the person who coined the phrase 'eat like an adult'.
Then do it. It's a miserable experience. No cheat days, no nuts, cheat meals or Greek Yogurt. You were the one commenting how hard it is for you to lose weight by eating like an adult. Put some money where your keyboard is.
Dan also somehow survived the Velocity Diet in its original form. I can't imagine that has a better than 5% success rate. And those who fail are stuck with expired protein powder.
I HAVE done it. And the Velocity Diet, and a bunch of other things.
There's a reasonable chance I'm the most successful 'dieter' here - I've kept off seventyish pounds for more than a decade.
My insight, such as it is, is that basically everyone needs to figure out what works for them, and what helps you lose weight might not be the same as what helped you lose it.
Not everything is sustainable. It doesn't necessarily have to be. The 10K Swing Challenge isn't sustainable (for most mortals), doesn't mean it's not worth doing.
This particular thing has a two week hard period followed by an indefinite period of loss/maintainance? Will it be sustainable for Old Miler?
No clue. Everything works. Nothing works. For me, eating 800 calories twice a week is not a big deal - it'd require no particular amount of mental effort and I'd feel fine.
But I also know for other people it's impossible to make work. I know I can't manage a vegan diet or, for that matter, a straight carnivore diet. But there's people who can.
(In those cases, I'm not sure they SHOULD, necessarily, but almost everything is better than how the average Western person eats)
I agree with everything you say. You have to find what works and what is sustainable. I could never do that diet. Especially the PSMF. For me fasting 38-40 once a week works. For most people, it won't.
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Henry
Total Posts: 1461
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During the 60's Salford in the North of Britain out of my whole school of 500 was only 3 fat kids.
Meat was a luxury and was very minimal, families in that area were poor.
"Go Henry - Live, lift, learn and grow - Never quit - Dave Draper" |
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Matt_T
Total Posts: 379
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It's medium hilarious that people are so against doing a PSMF for two weeks on THIS forum, considering Dan himself did exactly that this year.
You know, the person who coined the phrase 'eat like an adult'.
Then do it. It's a miserable experience. No cheat days, no nuts, cheat meals or Greek Yogurt. You were the one commenting how hard it is for you to lose weight by eating like an adult. Put some money where your keyboard is.
Dan also somehow survived the Velocity Diet in its original form. I can't imagine that has a better than 5% success rate. And those who fail are stuck with expired protein powder.
I HAVE done it. And the Velocity Diet, and a bunch of other things.
There's a reasonable chance I'm the most successful 'dieter' here - I've kept off seventyish pounds for more than a decade.
My insight, such as it is, is that basically everyone needs to figure out what works for them, and what helps you lose weight might not be the same as what helped you lose it.
Not everything is sustainable. It doesn't necessarily have to be. The 10K Swing Challenge isn't sustainable (for most mortals), doesn't mean it's not worth doing.
This particular thing has a two week hard period followed by an indefinite period of loss/maintainance? Will it be sustainable for Old Miler?
No clue. Everything works. Nothing works. For me, eating 800 calories twice a week is not a big deal - it'd require no particular amount of mental effort and I'd feel fine.
But I also know for other people it's impossible to make work. I know I can't manage a vegan diet or, for that matter, a straight carnivore diet. But there's people who can.
(In those cases, I'm not sure they SHOULD, necessarily, but almost everything is better than how the average Western person eats)
I agree with everything you say. You have to find what works and what is sustainable. I could never do that diet. Especially the PSMF. For me fasting 38-40 once a week works. For most people, it won't.
That's it though isn't it, if it works for you who cares what works or won't for most people.
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iPood
Total Posts: 2360
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Yeah, also: the no overweight people thing is a myth.
People were overall less fat, and a lot less were seriously obese, but the first Atkins book came out fifty years ago, and it sold millions THEN.
Before that was the Drinking Man's Diet, Fletcherizing, you name it. Heck, Banting's Letter On Corpulence, To The Public, sold 63,000 copies in England, in 1863.
Don't get caught in Golden Age fantasies.
Being overweight is not new, but a few decades ago prevalence was close to almost zero.
These pictures ware taken circa 1955.
Ordinary people, who didn’t practice any sport, who didn’t particularly watch their diet (diet? What’s that?) and they are mostly thin (or at the very least, not overweight).
Let’s fast forward a few decades and…
Now even kids are overweight.
"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness
and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums.
It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable.
Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow.
Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't."
Dan Martin |
Edited by iPood on 07-11-22 02:57 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Matt_T
Total Posts: 379
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Yeah, also: the no overweight people thing is a myth.
People were overall less fat, and a lot less were seriously obese, but the first Atkins book came out fifty years ago, and it sold millions THEN.
Before that was the Drinking Man's Diet, Fletcherizing, you name it. Heck, Banting's Letter On Corpulence, To The Public, sold 63,000 copies in England, in 1863.
Don't get caught in Golden Age fantasies.
Being overweight is not new, but a few decades ago prevalence was close to almost zero.
These pictures ware taken circa 1955.
Ordinary people, who didn’t practice any sport, who didn’t particularly watch their diet (diet? What’s that?) and they are mostly thin (or at the very least, not overweight).
Let’s fast forward a few decades and…
Now even kids are overweight.
Caveated that by no means do I buy into this carbophobia BS that is all the rage these days, betwixt the first two and second two pics, this happened:
https://www.foodsecurity.ac.uk/challenge/food-securit y-history/
The context of the pics is, in the first two you have a population who had grown up in a dearth of calories (if not straight up war), with not enough to go round. In the second two, you see the effects of the solution they came up with (which made a surfeit of calories cheap and plentiful).
Diets weren't 'better' back in those halcyon days, there just wasn't so much to go round.
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JonZ
Total Posts: 1021
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07-11-22 09:32 PM - Post#920390
I fought the battle of the bulge my entire life until, I started a an almost exclusively beef and egg diet. It is great. At 65 a just keep slowly losing eight and gaining muscle. I don't remember when I felt this good.
Good luck to you,
Jim
The old boxer's diet, steak and eggs.
Bacon is the gateway meat. - Anthony Bourdain
The world needs fewer business majors and more history majors. - Carl Sagan
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JonZ
Total Posts: 1021
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07-11-22 09:38 PM - Post#920391
Yeah, also: the no overweight people thing is a myth.
People were overall less fat, and a lot less were seriously obese, but the first Atkins book came out fifty years ago, and it sold millions THEN.
Before that was the Drinking Man's Diet, Fletcherizing, you name it. Heck, Banting's Letter On Corpulence, To The Public, sold 63,000 copies in England, in 1863.
Don't get caught in Golden Age fantasies.
I thought I was the only one who had read Robert Cameron's The Drinking Man's Diet. If someone at works says, "You're losing weight!". I tell them I am on The Drinking Man's Diet and keep on walking.
Bacon is the gateway meat. - Anthony Bourdain
The world needs fewer business majors and more history majors. - Carl Sagan
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