AusDaz
Total Posts: 3611
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05-18-22 08:55 PM - Post#919558
I’ve been contemplating the conditions under which it might be possible to achieve hypertrophy and fat loss. Are there any outside of starting from a low base?
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Kilban
Total Posts: 32
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05-19-22 05:58 AM - Post#919565
Steroids?
Just kidding, but I feel that sleep/recovery/no stressors is so important to get both things going?
Also time under tension plus time in good movement.
And your food choices need to be quite clean.
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iPood
Total Posts: 2360
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I’ve been contemplating the conditions under which it might be possible to achieve hypertrophy and fat loss. Are there any outside of starting from a low base?
Is it possible? Provided a perfect training stimulus, perfect sleep and perfect nutrition, I would say yes.
But I don't think it would be very practical.
"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness
and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums.
It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable.
Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow.
Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't."
Dan Martin |
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Justin Jordan
Total Posts: 854
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05-19-22 07:37 AM - Post#919569
I don't think it requires perfect.
With the caveat that unless you're fat and/or a beginner, I don't think you're going to get a lot of recomp. But losing a couple pounds of fat and gaining a pound of muscle is probably possible for the average trainee.
I think the simplest ways (and these really only work, I think, if they're novel to you) are:
- Radically tightening your nutrition. If you've been getting a normalish amount of protein and you go up to like a gram per pound of bodyweight while dropping calories, I think stuff can happen.
- You increase training volume a lot, with rep ranges and exercises that you haven't been doing. And honestly, some times the novel exercise is enough, if you've got bodyparts that are relatively underdeveloped.
But just anecdotally I've seen enough non overweight people gain some upper body size and lose some waist size when they buckle down that I don't think hypertrophy and fat loss at he same time is as rare.
I've done it this year, but I actually am too fat, which is easier. Even then, it wasn't a lot of muscle, but enough to be visible around my shoulders.
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DanMartin
Total Posts: 20705
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RupertC
Total Posts: 1479
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05-19-22 09:58 AM - Post#919575
Why not alternate blocks of A and B training? A would be heavy strength training and plentiful food with a little fitness maintenence; while B would be fitness training and smaller amounts of food with a little strength maintenence. I tried to post a picture of the yin-yang symbol but the forum wouldn't let me...
| Check out my critical-thinking blog at sharpenyouraxe.substack.com |
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Brian Hassler
Total Posts: 616
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BrianBinVA
Total Posts: 5140
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Aside from steroids, the best way to do this is to be between 16-24 years old. :-D
Failing that, I think on the training side, you need high-er reps and more time under tension. On the eating side, prolly more protein and less sugar and alcohol.
I've thought about this a decent bit and in the past (like distant past, in my 30s) have made good progress on something like:
A: higher rep 2-kb long cycle clean and jerk (or clean and press); couple sets of pullups or rows to finish
B: higher-rep back squats; couple sets of farmer walk to finish
Do each twice a week
But as iPood stated, while this is possible, it's often not gonna be very practical unless you're a monk...
Edited by BrianBinVA on 05-19-22 10:46 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Jordan D
Total Posts: 771
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I did Greg O'Gallagher's Kinobody Movie Star routine once, after reading Dan's recommendation. It promises exactly this, hypertrophy plus fat loss, and worked quite well. Despite Greg's gaudy marketing, his programming is incredibly reasonable and "no nonsense." I'm now a huge fan.
- Minimal leg training (no heavy barbell squats or deadlift, because they require too many calories and too much recovery)
- Low volume, high-intensity, 3-5 exercises
- 3 days a week
- Each day starts with one "big lift" (something like press, incline, or bulgarian split squats), constantly shooting for rep or weight PRs
- Hypertrophy assistance movements for shoulders, traps, and guns
- Calories set just below maintenance
- Eat the same food every day
- Stick with it for 12-16 weeks
The goal is to lose roughly a half pound per week, while adding 20-30lbs to your presses and split squats over a couple months.
Leangains Reverse Pyramid Training is somewhat similar, with less total movements and focus on the big lifts.
But O'Gallagher knows what he's doing. If I'm trying to recomp or look good for the beach, his routine is the only thing I'd consider myself -- at least other than Even Easier Strength (deadlift, incline, pullups), which has always given me fantastic aesthetic results. The only consideration is whether I have the time to train 3 or 5 days per week.
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Matt_T
Total Posts: 379
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I did Greg O'Gallagher's Kinobody Movie Star routine once, after reading Dan's recommendation. It promises exactly this, hypertrophy plus fat loss, and worked quite well. Despite Greg's gaudy marketing, his programming is incredibly reasonable and "no nonsense." I'm now a huge fan.
- Minimal leg training (no heavy barbell squats or deadlift, because they require too many calories and too much recovery)
- Low volume, high-intensity, 3-5 exercises
- 3 days a week
- Each day starts with one "big lift" (something like press, incline, or bulgarian split squats), constantly shooting for rep or weight PRs
- Hypertrophy assistance movements for shoulders, traps, and guns
- Calories set just below maintenance
- Eat the same food every day
- Stick with it for 12-16 weeks
The goal is to lose roughly a half pound per week, while adding 20-30lbs to your presses and split squats over a couple months.
Leangains Reverse Pyramid Training is somewhat similar, with less total movements and focus on the big lifts.
But O'Gallagher knows what he's doing. If I'm trying to recomp or look good for the beach, his routine is the only thing I'd consider myself -- at least other than Even Easier Strength (deadlift, incline, pullups), which has always given me fantastic aesthetic results. The only consideration is whether I have the time to train 3 or 5 days per week.
You bet its similar, he stole it having been a former client of Martin Berkhan's.
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JPS2019
Total Posts: 32
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05-20-22 09:02 AM - Post#919599
The ability to do so seems to vary some from person to person. A lot of people seem to confuse a bunch of "pump" or a minor loss of body fat for hypertrophy.
What has worked for me: regaining muscle I have previously had, keeping protein high, and calories right at maintenance. IF, which is just the way I normally live. Hard workouts, heavier weights, with lighter stuff sprinkled in throughout the day. So the sessions will be Big Lifts, but throughout all the day, bodyweight pushups, pullups, squats, etc. Not a ton of isolation exercises. After the big workouts, a walk, then a nap. Lots of veggies.
I suspect the ability to do this outside of overfat beginners is highly variable among individuals, which is why studies on it suggest that it is very hard/not really possible. My family genetics seem to run towards naturally lean, which I suspect helps a lot.
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SinisterAlex
Total Posts: 369
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05-20-22 09:24 AM - Post#919600
I think that getting a clear response to this question will be hard.
It is my experience that when doing a recomp or fat loss, the body is extra sensitive to external stressors.
If you sleep too little for a few days? Cortisol rises.
Too much do to at work ?
Cortisol rises.
So under perfect conditions this should be no problem following DeLorme and Watkins or Kinobody Movie Star routine.
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Jordan D
Total Posts: 771
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05-20-22 12:36 PM - Post#919603
You might also look at Bret Contreras’s programming. He has a million girls doing this every day, many advanced trainees. Calorie control is key, as boring as it is.
I’m now of the belief that hypertrophy + fat loss isn’t the fabled myth the industry made it out to be. It’s just everyone was doing 24-set bodybuilding splits, not sleeping, and eating garbage supplements.
The issue is: how MUCH hypertrophy do you want? 20lbs of muscle? Sorry, that’s not going to happen. But 3-4lbs with a loss of 2% body fat? I’ve seen too many people achieve that to think it’s crazy.
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Old Miler
Total Posts: 1744
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05-23-22 05:49 PM - Post#919640
Why not alternate blocks of A and B training? A would be heavy strength training and plentiful food with a little fitness maintenence; while B would be fitness training and smaller amounts of food with a little strength maintenence. I tried to post a picture of the yin-yang symbol but the forum wouldn't let me...
Isn't that what the bodybuilders call "bulking and cutting"?
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RupertC
Total Posts: 1479
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05-24-22 02:21 AM - Post#919644
Why not alternate blocks of A and B training? A would be heavy strength training and plentiful food with a little fitness maintenence; while B would be fitness training and smaller amounts of food with a little strength maintenence. I tried to post a picture of the yin-yang symbol but the forum wouldn't let me...
Isn't that what the bodybuilders call "bulking and cutting"?
Yup. It's as old as the hills...
| Check out my critical-thinking blog at sharpenyouraxe.substack.com |
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ledfistaco
Total Posts: 808
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05-24-22 08:42 AM - Post#919646
I had a short run of achieving the "holy grail" when I switched up training about 12 yrs ago. I was 33 then.
The scale didn't change but my pants were fitting looser on the waist and people were commenting I looked bigger up top.
Just frequent squatting and pressing around noon fasted - had that new training style honeymoon I bet. Felt good and set my all time front squat PR then.
Then I broke my ankle playing basketball and the progress ended.
Short term, it seems possible.
For background, I was not advanced but had a couple years of Olympic behind me.
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AAnnunz
Total Posts: 24932
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Why not alternate blocks of A and B training? A would be heavy strength training and plentiful food with a little fitness maintenence; while B would be fitness training and smaller amounts of food with a little strength maintenence. I tried to post a picture of the yin-yang symbol but the forum wouldn't let me...
Isn't that what the bodybuilders call "bulking and cutting"?
Yup. It's as old as the hills...
...as am I. I followed that method for decades. It has it's downsides, especially if used as an excuse to become a fat slob during the bulking cycle, but it appears to be so much easier than recomp. My body and mind were "happy" while bulking and miserable while cutting, whereas I think I'd be miserable nearly all the time while trying to work both sides concurrently.
| Be strong. Be in shape. Be a man among men, regardless of your age or circumstances. |
Edited by AAnnunz on 05-24-22 03:41 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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