Jordan Derksen
Total Posts: 392
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Dan that was excellent and well summarized info. Definitely looking forward to the new book! Thinking back to my first exposure to ES you have really simplified and clarified the whole thing.
I like that movement matrix. I've seen it before but it never registered. That will make picking out movements a lot easier and simplify ES. Too often I've picked some of the louder movements and didn't account for the overlap.
Loaded carries are the other excellent option. This is difficult to explain, but this point is true of all loaded carries training:
Strive to NEVER repeat a session.
Change load. Change distance. Add a sled. Add a backpack. Do suitcase carries one workout, rack carries the next, farmer walks the next day and waiter walks to round out a nice four-day cycle. On day five, do all four!
You want variety in Loaded Carries because they are meant to be something a little different, something unique. You want the finish of a LC challenge to be eye opening; if you repeat an LC workout over and over, you lose the insights of “wow, that was tougher than it looked on paper!”
This really is excellent. I recall asking this exact question years ago. What to do with loaded carries. I was simply doing the same farmers walk for the same distance all the time. I like that you made this distinction that LC need to be continually varied.
Let me make it as simple as possible:
Swings: 5 sets of 15
Military Press: 2 sets of 5
Pull Up: 2 sets of 5
Deadlift: 2 sets of 5
Ab Wheel: 2 sets of 5
…for the next forty workouts.
Add load when the movement feels easy, go lighter if you feel like it, too. Don’t miss. Make every lift. The volume creeps up on you (you do 375 swings a week and ten sets of each of the big lifts).
If the weight feels too light, go reasonably heavier next time. If you simply feel like taking a lighter load, do it. When the weights feel way too light, finish that first set of five and jump up to a set of three with a heavier load. If that feels nice and easy, jump up and do a heavier double.
This is way better than the original sets and reps template you had outlined in the first book. The problem with the wave you had is in the second week with the 6x1 the temptation is to go way too heavy and really defeat the purpose of the program. I like this. It gives a more organic feel to the program.
One could also call it: 3 x 3 x 3 x 3.
Three days a week
Three lifts a day
Three sets
Three reps
The simplicity of this program continues to amaze me. As I have stated in workshops, if I could go back in time with Easy Strength, I would tell everyone to JUST do three sets of three. If I could remain back in time, I would stress that THREE of the ES lifts are the core and, if we choose Pavel’s advice about FIVE exercises, the other two supplement the key lifts.
This would be my favorite right here though. I like the 2x5 for 5 days a week, but 3x3x3 is the ticket. Narrowing in on 3 main lifts, with 2 extras thrown in is a great way to look at it.
I feel like we're developing this toolbox here.
What should I do? Well how much time do I have? Heavy or light? Focused or exploration? High or low frequency? Heck you can throw these programs on a matrix.
2 for 2
3x3x3x3 Easy Strength
One Lift a Day
2x5 for 5 Easy Strength
I should ask because I'm curious. In your one post it seems that you distinguish between swings OR loaded carries as an option. Are we meant to float back and forth between the two?
Edited by Jordan Derksen on 04-01-22 10:24 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Dan John
Total Posts: 12292
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04-01-22 12:58 PM - Post#918568
This are just snips of a 300 page book.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...
Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you |
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Gunny72
Total Posts: 410
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Let me make it as simple as possible:
Swings: 5 sets of 15
Military Press: 2 sets of 5
Pull Up: 2 sets of 5
Deadlift: 2 sets of 5
Ab Wheel: 2 sets of 5
…for the next forty workouts.
Add load when the movement feels easy, go lighter if you feel like it, too. Don’t miss. Make every lift. The volume creeps up on you (you do 375 swings a week and ten sets of each of the big lifts).
If the weight feels too light, go reasonably heavier next time. If you simply feel like taking a lighter load, do it. When the weights feel way too light, finish that first set of five and jump up to a set of three with a heavier load. If that feels nice and easy, jump up and do a heavier double.
That simple test allowed me to destroy my personal records on an array of lifts over and over again doing ES. True, there is no rhyme or reason, but it seems to be the way of nature.
Part of the issue with most people when they study strength training is a notion that things “have always been done this way.” What “way?” How did people train before…
Hold on. What is the Great Tradition in strength training?
With the exception of the ab wheel, (I substituted it for knee raises), this was the exact 40 day work out I did in January and February this year.
A couple of observations.
a) Halfway through week 3, my posture was feeling unbelievably.....normal. I felt like I was walking around like an 18 year old again. I felt so straight and upright.
b) I must be honest, I was feeling a little fatigued after week 6. Not sure why? I did turn 50 during this 40 day programme but age is not an excuse.
c) At the start of week 7, I dropped my weights back to week 5 levels for the Monday and Tuesday, went lightish on Wednesday but Thursday onwards, I was back to better than ever.
d) Once a week, I would substitute one or 2 sets of 15 swings for goblet squats.
e) This is now my 4th completed 40 day programme in 5 years. If I was brave and smart, I would do this all year round.
P.s Neglected to mention. In between each set, I would focus on an original strength exercise such as neck nods, egg rolls, crawls and so on. This may have factored in my self-recognised posture alignment.
Andrew Gunn
Edited by Gunny72 on 04-01-22 08:50 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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AusDaz
Total Posts: 3611
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04-03-22 05:19 AM - Post#918593
Is there any room for complexes like dbl kb clean, press, front squat in an Easy Strength routine or do they best lend themselves to some other form of programming?
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Matt_T
Total Posts: 379
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04-03-22 06:33 AM - Post#918594
An observation, without meaning to make something striving to be easy and simple complex... If you are boiling it down to going by feel a lot of days for me mean chopping and changing reps and %s within the workout.
So if legs feel sore particularly might mean a 60% or less day for say Deadlift while still able to do 70% or up with pressing for example, or vice versa.
Likewise the choice between 3x3 or 2x5 I often make at the point I put my hands on the bar or even rep two/three some days. Just don't do more than ten.
Splitting up the 532s on different days works well for me also,especially if I've pushed the double, so like the idea that these pop up as and when.
Sure there was something in the wisdom of Ardron written about one maybe two things increasing, the rest staying the same that might relate.
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Roger Clarvin
Total Posts: 72
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04-03-22 10:15 AM - Post#918599
New book sounds fantastic. Looking forward to it.
Every time I give this type of training a run, I ask myself: Why don't I train this way all the time?
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Dan John
Total Posts: 12292
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04-03-22 10:25 AM - Post#918600
OS and ES, Gunny, are literally "peas and carrots."
Well, that's what me and Tim Anderson say to each other in our Forrest Gump voices.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...
Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you |
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Gunny72
Total Posts: 410
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04-03-22 05:07 PM - Post#918606
OS and ES, Gunny, are literally "peas and carrots."
Well, that's what me and Tim Anderson say to each other in our Forrest Gump voices.
You two need to write a book on that combination or get a thesis conducted to prove that this is the cure for many things.
Andrew Gunn
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Steve Rogers
Total Posts: 6158
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04-03-22 05:58 PM - Post#918607
OS and ES, Gunny, are literally "peas and carrots."
Well, that's what me and Tim Anderson say to each other in our Forrest Gump voices.
You two need to write a book on that combination or get a thesis conducted to prove that this is the cure for many things.
Andrew Gunn
+1
| "Coyote is always waiting, and Coyote is always hungry." |
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iPood
Total Posts: 2360
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04-04-22 11:15 AM - Post#918627
OS and ES, Gunny, are literally "peas and carrots."
Well, that's what me and Tim Anderson say to each other in our Forrest Gump voices.
E.S., O.S. and Maffetone running: the triumvirate.
"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness
and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums.
It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable.
Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow.
Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't."
Dan Martin |
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Jordan D
Total Posts: 771
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04-04-22 12:13 PM - Post#918628
OS and ES, Gunny, are literally "peas and carrots."
Well, that's what me and Tim Anderson say to each other in our Forrest Gump voices.
E.S., O.S. and Maffetone running: the triumvirate.
Don't sleep on ES, OS, and good old-fashioned walking.
3 years ago, I was the strongest I've ever been in my life, and almost the leanest with full-on Men's Health cover abs, and a resting heart rate in the low-to-mid 50s. Achieved entirely with ES, OS, and 50 minutes of daily walking. Zero other conditioning.
I've since found the need to occasionally bus bench my way to increased strength and cardio, probably out of boredom more than anything else. But as a baseline...ES, OS, walking...peas and carrots. Or, as the Mandalorian says: "This is the Way."
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Dan John
Total Posts: 12292
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04-04-22 12:25 PM - Post#918631
Jordan,
Would you mind me calling you some time? I would love to hear more about your success here. I'm writing a new book and this is what I am looking for...
This is the Way is a great title for a chapter.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...
Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you |
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Jordan D
Total Posts: 771
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04-04-22 04:00 PM - Post#918635
Jordan,
Would you mind me calling you some time? I would love to hear more about your success here. I'm writing a new book and this is what I am looking for...
This is the Way is a great title for a chapter.
Sure, anytime! I'll send you a PM.
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iPood
Total Posts: 2360
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Don't sleep on ES, OS, and good old-fashioned walking.
3 years ago, I was the strongest I've ever been in my life, and almost the leanest with full-on Men's Health cover abs, and a resting heart rate in the low-to-mid 50s. Achieved entirely with ES, OS, and 50 minutes of daily walking. Zero other conditioning.
I've since found the need to occasionally bus bench my way to increased strength and cardio, probably out of boredom more than anything else. But as a baseline...ES, OS, walking...peas and carrots. Or, as the Mandalorian says: "This is the Way."
Don’t get me wrong, I love walking as a locomotion method, but running through the woods… it’s what keeps me sane.
It’s relaxing and meditative in a convoluted way I can’t really explain. My Zen moment of sorts.
"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness
and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums.
It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable.
Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow.
Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't."
Dan Martin |
Edited by iPood on 04-05-22 10:21 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Gunny72
Total Posts: 410
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04-04-22 05:10 PM - Post#918639
OS and ES, Gunny, are literally "peas and carrots."
Well, that's what me and Tim Anderson say to each other in our Forrest Gump voices.
E.S., O.S. and Maffetone running: the triumvirate.
Don't sleep on ES, OS, and good old-fashioned walking.
3 years ago, I was the strongest I've ever been in my life, and almost the leanest with full-on Men's Health cover abs, and a resting heart rate in the low-to-mid 50s. Achieved entirely with ES, OS, and 50 minutes of daily walking. Zero other conditioning.
I've since found the need to occasionally bus bench my way to increased strength and cardio, probably out of boredom more than anything else. But as a baseline...ES, OS, walking...peas and carrots. Or, as the Mandalorian says: "This is the Way."
Jordan,
That is a massive insight. That just proves to me that this is the way to train or as you say "the way."
Andrew Gunn
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Gunny72
Total Posts: 410
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04-04-22 05:19 PM - Post#918640
Don't sleep on ES, OS, and good old-fashioned walking.
3 years ago, I was the strongest I've ever been in my life, and almost the leanest with full-on Men's Health cover abs, and a resting heart rate in the low-to-mid 50s. Achieved entirely with ES, OS, and 50 minutes of daily walking. Zero other conditioning.
I've since found the need to occasionally bus bench my way to increased strength and cardio, probably out of boredom more than anything else. But as a baseline...ES, OS, walking...peas and carrots. Or, as the Mandalorian says: "This is the Way."
Don’t get me wrong, I love walking as a locomotion method, but running through the woods it’s what keeps me sane.
It’s relaxing and meditative in a convoluted way I can’t really explain. My Zen moment of sorts.
Ipood,
Love it. Getting in touch with nature.
Andrew
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Pepper
Total Posts: 296
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04-04-22 05:22 PM - Post#918641
But as a baseline...ES, OS, walking...peas and carrots. Or, as the Mandalorian says: "This is the Way."
That sounds super, Jordan. When you say OS, did you do the whole rolling, rocking, crawling thing or something different? The reason I ask is that though I have one or two of Tim's books and use his reset and a bit of crawling with good effect to warm up for grappling, I'm still somewhat confused by the system.
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Brian Hassler
Total Posts: 616
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JPS2019
Total Posts: 32
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04-04-22 08:23 PM - Post#918644
Don’t get me wrong, I love walking as a locomotion method, but running through the woods it’s what keeps me sane.
It’s relaxing and meditative in a convoluted way I can’t really explain. My Zen moment of sorts.
I always found the same, trail running, so long as you weren't racing. There's something about having to pay just the right amount of attention so that you have to let the BS drop off, and you can sustain that flow state for a while.
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Jordan D
Total Posts: 771
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04-05-22 09:59 AM - Post#918662
Don’t get me wrong, I love walking as a locomotion method, but running through the woods it’s what keeps me sane.
It’s relaxing and meditative in a convoluted way I can’t really explain. My Zen moment of sorts.
Oh, I agree. I'm 100% adamant about doing my daily walking in parks, woods, or whatever real nature is available. It's an absolutely essential part of it for me. Then again, to appropriate a term that someone used wonderfully on here once, I am a "tedious naturalist," haha.
That sounds super, Jordan. When you say OS, did you do the whole rolling, rocking, crawling thing or something different? The reason I ask is that though I have one or two of Tim's books and use his reset and a bit of crawling with good effect to warm up for grappling, I'm still somewhat confused by the system.
I'm still confused too, ha. I've always found OS hard to parse. But I've done daily resets and their online training program, crawling-focused 6-week plans, etc etc, and eventually realized it's about finding what works for my body. Or what my body NEEDS daily. Eventually I settled on:
1. 5 or so minutes of rocking, rolling, and nodding in the morning.
2. A minute or two of the same before and after workouts.
At this point, I'm not sure if everything I do is actually in OS, like hanging. I'm sure I could find it all in Tim's videos if I looked. But in principle, to me, it's just whatever movement I need to do to "lubricate" the body, never pushing, though always with special emphasis on 6-point nodding, rocks, and egg rolls. The nodding especially, for me, as someone with a history of neck/spine injuries, is something I don't think I can live without.
I should also say I've done all manners of "mobility" type stuff in the past, wrist rolls, shoulder rolls, typical yoga/martial arts warmups, blah blah blah, but it's not the same. The nodding, rocking, and spinal rolls are uniquely human and relevant for me. YMMV, of course.
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Justin Jordan
Total Posts: 854
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Watching that again makes me think part of the reason Dan gets warm up questions is that people use that to refer to two things
- A general warmup, getting the body warm and loose
- A specific warmup for the exercise ie, do you do sets leading up to the easy set.
It feels like Dan only uses it the first way - he mentions having to make attempts O lifting when he'd just been sitting there. I'm presuming here that the first time he touches a bar at the meet isn't his opening attempt.
(Although I suppose it could be)
There's no easy weight that'd I'd use for a lot of the compound lifts without doing some much lighter sets first, unless I want to hurt myself.
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Jordan Derksen
Total Posts: 392
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04-05-22 12:21 PM - Post#918672
Don’t get me wrong, I love walking as a locomotion method, but running through the woods it’s what keeps me sane.
It’s relaxing and meditative in a convoluted way I can’t really explain. My Zen moment of sorts.
Oh, I agree. I'm 100% adamant about doing my daily walking in parks, woods, or whatever real nature is available. It's an absolutely essential part of it for me. Then again, to appropriate a term that someone used wonderfully on here once, I am a "tedious naturalist," haha.
Jordan, this sounds like you've discovered Friluftsliv. It's a nordic practice of 'open air living'. Unwinding in remote locations in nature. It can be any physical practice, just sitting, running, or walking. Apparently it's so ingrained in their culture that a lot of jobs allow this kind of space during working hours. They can just go take a 1 hour walk through the park on lunch if they want.
Dan, I realize some of my responses got a little wordy. Wasn't trying to pick apart everything you wrote, just making a lot of realizations from the snippets you posted. I'll try to keep the thinking in the brain and do my best to summarize observations in the future.
I looked back through my ES cycles and attempts and here were my mistakes:
-Not accounting for exercise overlap (movement matrix) and picking 5 movements to fill all 5 categories.
-Taking the rep procedure too seriously (on a 6x1 day going heavy whether I felt good or not)
-Being zealous about making progress in all 5 exercises. A set of 3 core exercises for the sake of brevity and focus helps here.
-Incorporating all the 'extras' too often. Doing the 75 swings and loaded carries and ab wheels on top of the 5 big movement categories. That makes 8 moves, not just 5.
To summarize, I was unsuccessful when easy strength was no longer easy.
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Dan John
Total Posts: 12292
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04-05-22 12:57 PM - Post#918673
Can I quote this in the book?
To summarize, I was unsuccessful when easy strength was no longer easy.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...
Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you |
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Jordan D
Total Posts: 771
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04-05-22 01:30 PM - Post#918677
Jordan, this sounds like you've discovered Friluftsliv. It's a nordic practice of 'open air living'. Unwinding in remote locations in nature. It can be any physical practice, just sitting, running, or walking. Apparently it's so ingrained in their culture that a lot of jobs allow this kind of space during working hours. They can just go take a 1 hour walk through the park on lunch if they want.
I prefer not to think of it as a cultural practice, but as the native state of all organic life forms on this planet.
We don’t have Gardens of Eden anymore, and can’t all be Thoreau or Kon-Tiki sailors, but I believe an ideal form of “health” can’t exist outside of the natural world. What we consider “health” is, instead, how resilient we may be, through luck or effort, to the unnaturalness of civilization.
In thinking of how we live day to day in physical, constructed spaces, I see a spectrum between “shelter” and “prison.” One entails great physical difficulty and psychological peace. The other entails physical ease (but chronic disease) and brutal psychological torture. Staying close to the “shelter” side, with lots of sweat, sunshine, cooperation, whole food, and green surroundings, seems to produce “health.” As with the Amish, who have virtually none of the obesity, diabetes, mental illness, and other chronic problems the rest of the US seems to have.
So, I walk, outside, a lot. Not as a prescription, but as a birthright.
Apologies for the self-indulgent rambling.
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Jordan Derksen
Total Posts: 392
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04-05-22 04:48 PM - Post#918679
Can I quote this in the book?
To summarize, I was unsuccessful when easy strength was no longer easy.
For sure.
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AusDaz
Total Posts: 3611
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04-05-22 06:44 PM - Post#918681
Jordan, this sounds like you've discovered Friluftsliv. It's a nordic practice of 'open air living'. Unwinding in remote locations in nature. It can be any physical practice, just sitting, running, or walking. Apparently it's so ingrained in their culture that a lot of jobs allow this kind of space during working hours. They can just go take a 1 hour walk through the park on lunch if they want.
I prefer not to think of it as a cultural practice, but as the native state of all organic life forms on this planet.
We don’t have Gardens of Eden anymore, and can’t all be Thoreau or Kon-Tiki sailors, but I believe an ideal form of “health” can’t exist outside of the natural world. What we consider “health” is, instead, how resilient we may be, through luck or effort, to the unnaturalness of civilization.
In thinking of how we live day to day in physical, constructed spaces, I see a spectrum between “shelter” and “prison.” One entails great physical difficulty and psychological peace. The other entails physical ease (but chronic disease) and brutal psychological torture. Staying close to the “shelter” side, with lots of sweat, sunshine, cooperation, whole food, and green surroundings, seems to produce “health.” As with the Amish, who have virtually none of the obesity, diabetes, mental illness, and other chronic problems the rest of the US seems to have.
So, I walk, outside, a lot. Not as a prescription, but as a birthright.
Apologies for the self-indulgent rambling.
The Japanese have a similar concept - shinrin-yoku - which translates to something like forest bathing. It’s an interesting idea that some of the most important benefits of walking or other low intensity exercise might just be the being outside in nature bit.
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Gunny72
Total Posts: 410
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04-05-22 07:14 PM - Post#918682
Jordan, this sounds like you've discovered Friluftsliv. It's a nordic practice of 'open air living'. Unwinding in remote locations in nature. It can be any physical practice, just sitting, running, or walking. Apparently it's so ingrained in their culture that a lot of jobs allow this kind of space during working hours. They can just go take a 1 hour walk through the park on lunch if they want.
I prefer not to think of it as a cultural practice, but as the native state of all organic life forms on this planet.
We don’t have Gardens of Eden anymore, and can’t all be Thoreau or Kon-Tiki sailors, but I believe an ideal form of “health” can’t exist outside of the natural world. What we consider “health” is, instead, how resilient we may be, through luck or effort, to the unnaturalness of civilization.
In thinking of how we live day to day in physical, constructed spaces, I see a spectrum between “shelter” and “prison.” One entails great physical difficulty and psychological peace. The other entails physical ease (but chronic disease) and brutal psychological torture. Staying close to the “shelter” side, with lots of sweat, sunshine, cooperation, whole food, and green surroundings, seems to produce “health.” As with the Amish, who have virtually none of the obesity, diabetes, mental illness, and other chronic problems the rest of the US seems to have.
So, I walk, outside, a lot. Not as a prescription, but as a birthright.
Apologies for the self-indulgent rambling.
The Japanese have a similar concept - shinrin-yoku - which translates to something like forest bathing. It’s an interesting idea that some of the most important benefits of walking or other low intensity exercise might just be the being outside in nature bit.
Don't want to divert or hijack the thread from the original discussion but I can never understand these people who join a Gym and all they use are the treadmill or running machine. It goes against everything our forefathers intended.
I come up with some of my best ideas and thoughts on a morning walk through parks with the trees and the birds and scenery.
Andrew Gunn
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Dan John
Total Posts: 12292
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04-06-22 11:09 AM - Post#918692
No hijack, Andrew.
A truth.
To me it is like the seat belt on a Nautilus machine. Seated, with a seat belt, doing an isolation lift based on a scam idea about magic points on a strength curve. Undo the seat belt, go to another machine, sit down, buckle in.
That's why Jordan's insight of ES, OS, and Walking just illuminated my mind (plus a good night of sleep for decades and veggies) to be so much more like life, living, and everything else.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...
Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you |
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Matt_T
Total Posts: 379
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04-06-22 11:26 AM - Post#918693
Don’t get me wrong, I love walking as a locomotion method, but running through the woods it’s what keeps me sane.
It’s relaxing and meditative in a convoluted way I can’t really explain. My Zen moment of sorts.
Oh, I agree. I'm 100% adamant about doing my daily walking in parks, woods, or whatever real nature is available. It's an absolutely essential part of it for me. Then again, to appropriate a term that someone used wonderfully on here once, I am a "tedious naturalist," haha.
Jordan, this sounds like you've discovered Friluftsliv. It's a nordic practice of 'open air living'. Unwinding in remote locations in nature. It can be any physical practice, just sitting, running, or walking. Apparently it's so ingrained in their culture that a lot of jobs allow this kind of space during working hours. They can just go take a 1 hour walk through the park on lunch if they want.
Dan, I realize some of my responses got a little wordy. Wasn't trying to pick apart everything you wrote, just making a lot of realizations from the snippets you posted. I'll try to keep the thinking in the brain and do my best to summarize observations in the future.
I looked back through my ES cycles and attempts and here were my mistakes:
-Not accounting for exercise overlap (movement matrix) and picking 5 movements to fill all 5 categories.
-Taking the rep procedure too seriously (on a 6x1 day going heavy whether I felt good or not)
-Being zealous about making progress in all 5 exercises. A set of 3 core exercises for the sake of brevity and focus helps here.
-Incorporating all the 'extras' too often. Doing the 75 swings and loaded carries and ab wheels on top of the 5 big movement categories. That makes 8 moves, not just 5.
To summarize, I was unsuccessful when easy strength was no longer easy.
The 6x1 day is really tricky for me too. I think part of the issue though is (for me at least) this is the day where the magic of the programme bursts through and more often than not you find yourself effortlessly doing a weight you previously wouldn't have dared. Very hard to manage the expectation that comes with that and not go for a PB every time it comes round.
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Jordan D
Total Posts: 771
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04-06-22 01:08 PM - Post#918700
Don't want to divert or hijack the thread from the original discussion but I can never understand these people who join a Gym and all they use are the treadmill or running machine. It goes against everything our forefathers intended.
I come up with some of my best ideas and thoughts on a morning walk through parks with the trees and the birds and scenery.
No hijack, Andrew.
A truth.
To me it is like the seat belt on a Nautilus machine. Seated, with a seat belt, doing an isolation lift based on a scam idea about magic points on a strength curve. Undo the seat belt, go to another machine, sit down, buckle in.
That's why Jordan's insight of ES, OS, and Walking just illuminated my mind (plus a good night of sleep for decades and veggies) to be so much more like life, living, and everything else.
This stuff is complex because ultimately it involves a serious philosophical interrogation of how our lives and societies are constructed in ways we don't fully understand. There's the automatic assumption that scientific progress is better, that it "corrects" some gap or mistake in our natural existence, but that's almost never self-evident.
It's almost easy for us fitness nerds to look at the guy on the nautilus machine, and the guy on his treadmill in the garage, and the guy jogging through the woods and doing tree-branch pullups, and say: "Hmmmm, one of these is a heck of a lot happier, healthier, and less stressed than the others." But it's very difficult for OTHERS to see that, when there are so many smart people producing machines, apartment towers, phone apps, pharmaceuticals, and bug-protein cookies and saying, "Yes! This is the key we've always needed!"
Ultimately, we all want to look and be like Tarzan, but none of us want to swing through the jungle all day and fight mosquitoes.
ES + OS + Walking (+ sleep, veggies, etc.) seems to me to be the best (and certainly least damaging) way to approximate that with a barbell in our hands in a stressful civilized world. At least as far as I've discovered.
Actually, I wonder if that's the important question: "What's least damaging?"
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iPood
Total Posts: 2360
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04-06-22 01:15 PM - Post#918701
The 6x1 day is really tricky for me too. I think part of the issue though is (for me at least) this is the day where the magic of the programme bursts through and more often than not you find yourself effortlessly doing a weight you previously wouldn't have dared. Very hard to manage the expectation that comes with that and not go for a PB every time it comes round.
I use the RPE of that final single to calculate my weights for the next week.
Unless the RPE goes down, the loads will stay the same or even decrease a bit.
"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness
and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums.
It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable.
Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow.
Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't."
Dan Martin |
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Brian Hassler
Total Posts: 616
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04-06-22 01:24 PM - Post#918702
This stuff is complex because ultimately it involves a serious philosophical interrogation of how our lives and societies are constructed in ways we don't fully understand. There's the automatic assumption that scientific progress is better, that it "corrects" some gap or mistake in our natural existence, but that's almost never self-evident.
It's almost easy for us fitness nerds to look at the guy on the nautilus machine, and the guy on his treadmill in the garage, and the guy jogging through the woods and doing tree-branch pullups, and say: "Hmmmm, one of these is a heck of a lot happier, healthier, and less stressed than the others." But it's very difficult for OTHERS to see that, when there are so many smart people producing machines, apartment towers, phone apps, pharmaceuticals, and bug-protein cookies and saying, "Yes! This is the key we've always needed!"
Ultimately, we all want to look and be like Tarzan, but none of us want to swing through the jungle all day and fight mosquitoes.
ES + OS + Walking (+ sleep, veggies, etc.) seems to me to be the best (and certainly least damaging) way to approximate that with a barbell in our hands in a stressful civilized world. At least as far as I've discovered.
Actually, I wonder if that's the important question: "What's least damaging?"
That seems based on what you perceive to be common values/beliefs within this particular community, but this is a self-selected and relatively homogenous group based on the fact that we all resonate to greater or lesser extent with the world as seen by Dan John. Clearly, that makes us a cut above ordinary.
However, if you look at what's happening on social media, you have channels put on by chemically enhanced lifestyle celebrities with millions of followers who want to emulate both their look and their social lives. In those cases, it's very much about presentation and interaction with others who are also presentation focused, which leads to a completely different paradigm of what's "good", "healthy", and "enjoyable". That's just one example. There are as many others as there are different communities.
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padddleperson
Total Posts: 57
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04-06-22 02:18 PM - Post#918704
Thoughts? I absolutely love ES / OS Movement combo. Problem is i also love the benefits of isometrics. i was wondering if it wouldn't be too much to do a Isometric version of each ES Exercise as a warmup/prep for the ES workout. Iso Rep Scheme would be 3 x 6 seconds, could maybe just do a 1 x 10 second scheme....Or ISO's could be a second workout later in day, it's about 5-10 minutes long.
Was wondering if anybody has tried this or have opinions. Honestly if it wasn't too much, i could do that routine forever switching exercises after each 40 day cycle. Thanks!
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Dan John
Total Posts: 12292
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04-06-22 04:04 PM - Post#918705
"this is a self-selected and relatively homogenous group based on the fact that we all resonate to greater or lesser extent with the world as seen by Dan John. Clearly, that makes us a cut above ordinary."
Clearly.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...
Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you |
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Matt_T
Total Posts: 379
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04-06-22 04:44 PM - Post#918709
The 6x1 day is really tricky for me too. I think part of the issue though is (for me at least) this is the day where the magic of the programme bursts through and more often than not you find yourself effortlessly doing a weight you previously wouldn't have dared. Very hard to manage the expectation that comes with that and not go for a PB every time it comes round.
I use the RPE of that final single to calculate my weights for the next week.
Unless the RPE goes down, the loads will stay the same or even decrease a bit.
Yeah good plan. The problem I get is in the doing, and the system being so successful I want to try for that PR every time. It worked so well I keep doing it if you will, even when I shouldn't.
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Matt_T
Total Posts: 379
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04-06-22 04:53 PM - Post#918710
Thoughts? I absolutely love ES / OS Movement combo. Problem is i also love the benefits of isometrics. i was wondering if it wouldn't be too much to do a Isometric version of each ES Exercise as a warmup/prep for the ES workout. Iso Rep Scheme would be 3 x 6 seconds, could maybe just do a 1 x 10 second scheme....Or ISO's could be a second workout later in day, it's about 5-10 minutes long.
Was wondering if anybody has tried this or have opinions. Honestly if it wasn't too much, i could do that routine forever switching exercises after each 40 day cycle. Thanks!
Yeah I played round with this during lockdown, when lacking equipment. Mostly sitting at the bottom of a squat, "Overcoming" presses (trying to lift my house by a doorframe) , and some SLDLs with a pause. Lights things up well as a warm up.
Have also used timed eccentrics/isometric pause on ES sets just for experimentation really. Dunno if it did anything.
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Old Miler
Total Posts: 1744
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04-06-22 05:03 PM - Post#918712
Don't want to divert or hijack the thread from the original discussion but I can never understand these people who join a Gym and all they use are the treadmill or running machine. It goes against everything our forefathers intended.
It's very sad, but some people are so detached from nature that they just don't get a dose of nature for weeks on end. If you grow up in a big city and don't commute through a decent park on the way to work, you need to make a substantial time investment to get out into it. There are millions who live like this.
In that environment, 40 minutes of "meditating on a treadmill/bike" is at least way better than not doing anything.
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Gunny72
Total Posts: 410
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04-06-22 05:22 PM - Post#918714
Don't want to divert or hijack the thread from the original discussion but I can never understand these people who join a Gym and all they use are the treadmill or running machine. It goes against everything our forefathers intended.
It's very sad, but some people are so detached from nature that they just don't get a dose of nature for weeks on end. If you grow up in a big city and don't commute through a decent park on the way to work, you need to make a substantial time investment to get out into it. There are millions who live like this.
In that environment, 40 minutes of "meditating on a treadmill/bike" is at least way better than not doing anything.
This has been an excellent thread. Much wisdom and massive insights from everyone!
I understand what you mean with your last sentence. Not every city has beautiful parks, nature, rivers, oceans and so on. Completely agree with you there.
However, there are people in my city that have access to nature reserves, scenic parks, running tracks, river loops etc but continue to run or walk on a treadmill inside a gym with no fresh air or vitamin D. These are the people who make no sense to me.
Good input all. Has really got me thinking about a few things.
Andrew Gunn
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Gunny72
Total Posts: 410
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Don't want to divert or hijack the thread from the original discussion but I can never understand these people who join a Gym and all they use are the treadmill or running machine. It goes against everything our forefathers intended.
I come up with some of my best ideas and thoughts on a morning walk through parks with the trees and the birds and scenery.
No hijack, Andrew.
A truth.
To me it is like the seat belt on a Nautilus machine. Seated, with a seat belt, doing an isolation lift based on a scam idea about magic points on a strength curve. Undo the seat belt, go to another machine, sit down, buckle in.
That's why Jordan's insight of ES, OS, and Walking just illuminated my mind (plus a good night of sleep for decades and veggies) to be so much more like life, living, and everything else.
This stuff is complex because ultimately it involves a serious philosophical interrogation of how our lives and societies are constructed in ways we don't fully understand. There's the automatic assumption that scientific progress is better, that it "corrects" some gap or mistake in our natural existence, but that's almost never self-evident.
It's almost easy for us fitness nerds to look at the guy on the nautilus machine, and the guy on his treadmill in the garage, and the guy jogging through the woods and doing tree-branch pullups, and say: "Hmmmm, one of these is a heck of a lot happier, healthier, and less stressed than the others." But it's very difficult for OTHERS to see that, when there are so many smart people producing machines, apartment towers, phone apps, pharmaceuticals, and bug-protein cookies and saying, "Yes! This is the key we've always needed!"
Ultimately, we all want to look and be like Tarzan, but none of us want to swing through the jungle all day and fight mosquitoes.
ES + OS + Walking (+ sleep, veggies, etc.) seems to me to be the best (and certainly least damaging) way to approximate that with a barbell in our hands in a stressful civilized world. At least as far as I've discovered.
Actually, I wonder if that's the important question: "What's least damaging?"
This is brilliant Jordan. "What's least damaging?"
Andrew
Edited by Gunny72 on 04-06-22 05:28 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Jordan D
Total Posts: 771
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04-06-22 05:33 PM - Post#918716
However, if you look at what's happening on social media, you have channels put on by chemically enhanced lifestyle celebrities with millions of followers who want to emulate both their look and their social lives. In those cases, it's very much about presentation and interaction with others who are also presentation focused, which leads to a completely different paradigm of what's "good", "healthy", and "enjoyable". That's just one example. There are as many others as there are different communities.
Oh, I agree entirely. That’s why I say it requires a serious and philosophical interrogation (which most folks don’t ever want to have, and probably shouldn’t have lest they end up rambling maniacally on the Internet like me). Also why I previously said I don’t see it as a cultural issue as much as biological, because all of our communities exist within the same evolutionary or physiological framework. You, me, an Egyptian Muslim in Ramadan, and an 18 year old New Yorker on TikTok who wants to look like a Kardashian, we’re all the same species, and like every other terrestrial mammalian species, more or less evolved or designed to interact daily with an environment filled with trees, rocks, sun, and dirt, not fluorescent tube lights and car seats. Our conscious goals rarely seem to be our biological needs, and achieving those goals, it seems to me, rarely offers “happiness,” “fitness,” or “health” (as the concepts have been sold to us, at least by communities less enlightened than this one). The difference between goals and needs seems simple, but man, we really have a hard time disentangling them. And, I suspect that for most folks they'd achieve their goals by just focusing on what they need (most of which can be achieved through ES, OS, and walking).
Again, apologies for getting in the weeds. I’m surely contradicting myself plenty. I just really like ES, OS, and walking. It’s good.
Or maybe part of “The Good.”
If you grow up in a big city and don't commute through a decent park on the way to work, you need to make a substantial time investment to get out into it. There are millions who live like this.
In that environment, 40 minutes of "meditating on a treadmill/bike" is at least way better than not doing anything.
So much truth in that. There's a reason why we all vacation at the beach, why that, for us, is the paradigm of relaxation and "escape." Barefoot, sunshine, swimming, walking. Our bodies know what our minds do not.
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Gunny72
Total Posts: 410
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However, if you look at what's happening on social media, you have channels put on by chemically enhanced lifestyle celebrities with millions of followers who want to emulate both their look and their social lives. In those cases, it's very much about presentation and interaction with others who are also presentation focused, which leads to a completely different paradigm of what's "good", "healthy", and "enjoyable". That's just one example. There are as many others as there are different communities.
Oh, I agree entirely. That’s why I say it requires a serious and philosophical interrogation (which most folks don’t ever want to have, and probably shouldn’t have lest they end up rambling maniacally on the Internet like me). Also why I previously said I don’t see it as a cultural issue as much as biological, because all of our communities exist within the same evolutionary or physiological framework. You, me, an Egyptian Muslim in Ramadan, and an 18 year old New Yorker on TikTok who wants to look like a Kardashian, we’re all the same species, and like every other terrestrial mammalian species, more or less evolved or designed to interact daily with an environment filled with trees, rocks, sun, and dirt, not fluorescent tube lights and car seats. Our conscious goals rarely seem to be our biological needs, and achieving those goals, it seems to me, rarely offers “happiness,” “fitness,” or “health” (as the concepts have been sold to us, at least by communities less enlightened than this one). The difference between goals and needs seems simple, but man, we really have a hard time disentangling them. And, I suspect that for most folks they'd achieve their goals by just focusing on what they need (most of which can be achieved through ES, OS, and walking).
Again, apologies for getting in the weeds. I’m surely contradicting myself plenty. I just really like ES, OS, and walking. It’s good.
Or maybe part of “The Good.”
If you grow up in a big city and don't commute through a decent park on the way to work, you need to make a substantial time investment to get out into it. There are millions who live like this.
In that environment, 40 minutes of "meditating on a treadmill/bike" is at least way better than not doing anything.
So much truth in that. There's a reason why we all vacation at the beach, why that, for us, is the paradigm of relaxation and "escape." Barefoot, sunshine, swimming, walking. Our bodies know what our minds do not.
Walking barefoot on grass or sand, swimming etc. Some people are huge believers in earthing/grounding. Earthing/grounding is connecting your body with the magnetic fields of the earths surface. You can only ground by walking barefoot or swimming in an ocean or river. For example, walking in rubber soul shoes has no earthing benefits. Some scientists believe that Earthing has many health upsides.
I can attest to sleeping much more soundly on the night of my weekly bodysurf.
As you said, our bodies might know what our brains don't. Just some food for thought.
Andrew Gunn
Edited by Gunny72 on 04-06-22 10:24 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Kyle Aaron
Total Posts: 1911
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04-07-22 01:58 AM - Post#918728
"Earthing" is a bit woo-woo for me, but what I will note is that if you take someone with ankle, knee or hip joint problems, running on the pavement is nasty for them, but running on grass or sand (with or without shoes), those joints have little or no pain - of course, they get massive calf DOMS, but nothing is without price.
Wouldn't apply to the obese, of course, who shouldn't run any significant distance. But still, something to think of.
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Gunny72
Total Posts: 410
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"Earthing" is a bit woo-woo for me, but what I will note is that if you take someone with ankle, knee or hip joint problems, running on the pavement is nasty for them, but running on grass or sand (with or without shoes), those joints have little or no pain - of course, they get massive calf DOMS, but nothing is without price.
Wouldn't apply to the obese, of course, who shouldn't run any significant distance. But still, something to think of.
That's fair enough.
I only stumbled across the term just over a year ago. Since then, I have been conscious to go barefoot outside in the backyard wherever possible and even on the occasional bushwalk. Trialled a few hill sprints going barefoot as well on a grassy hill last winter.
Some people swear by it and the practise is absolutely free.
Is earthing Pseudo science or is there something in this? The more I have researched and practiced earthing, I tend to think a little toward the latter.
A couple more things to think about. (We are both Aussies so this resonates to us both). The Aboriginals never wore anything to protect their feet for over 40 000 years and I reckon they would have to be the most connected race to mother earth on the planet.
When toddlers are taught to walk, they are encouraged to do so in barefeet.
One last thing. A few years back, I read a fascinating article on the evolution of world record times for running races over various distances. The article came to the conclusion that since the invention of studs, cleats and rubber sole shoes, world record times, percentage wise, have decreased considerably these past few decades compared to yesteryear. I have tried so hard to google that article for 12 months to re-read it but do you think I can find it?
We could take this topic to another thread if you are interested?
Andrew Gunn
Edited by Gunny72 on 04-07-22 03:02 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Matt_T
Total Posts: 379
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JPS2019
Total Posts: 32
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04-07-22 08:43 AM - Post#918732
"Earthing" is a bit woo-woo for me, but what I will note is that if you take someone with ankle, knee or hip joint problems, running on the pavement is nasty for them, but running on grass or sand (with or without shoes), those joints have little or no pain - of course, they get massive calf DOMS, but nothing is without price.
Wouldn't apply to the obese, of course, who shouldn't run any significant distance. But still, something to think of.
I feel similarly. However, when I come across things that seem too reliant on an untestable theory, I see if there is an alternate mechanism that makes sense to me, to account for the anecdotal experience. So I don't need to believe that yoga aligns my chakras for it to work; I suspect that it reminds my spine to stay stacked. I don't need to believe that I'm exchanging "good" ions with the earth; I suspect that our species spent a long time barefoot/in minimal footwear, and the feedback from lots of nerves in the feet promote better alignment/good brain states.
You don't need a metaphysical theory to experience how good it feels to kick off your shoes at the beach and spread the little piggies in the sand.
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Jordan Derksen
Total Posts: 392
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04-07-22 09:57 AM - Post#918735
In the west cities are setup for cars, not humans.
Here I am sitting in my cubicle, slowly laminating my hamstrings and ass into pancakes and shortening my hip flexors. Taking a brain break to read through this excellent discussion. I have 3 monitors. One of them is a youtube video of a campfire burning in the wildnerness complete with the campfire and nature ambience sounds overlayed with relaxing classical music.
"Our bodies know what our minds do not."
We do what we can do make it through the day in the concrete jungle.
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Jordan D
Total Posts: 771
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04-07-22 11:47 AM - Post#918740
"Earthing" is a bit woo-woo for me, but what I will note is that if you take someone with ankle, knee or hip joint problems, running on the pavement is nasty for them, but running on grass or sand (with or without shoes), those joints have little or no pain - of course, they get massive calf DOMS, but nothing is without price.
Wouldn't apply to the obese, of course, who shouldn't run any significant distance. But still, something to think of.
I feel similarly. However, when I come across things that seem too reliant on an untestable theory, I see if there is an alternate mechanism that makes sense to me, to account for the anecdotal experience. So I don't need to believe that yoga aligns my chakras for it to work; I suspect that it reminds my spine to stay stacked. I don't need to believe that I'm exchanging "good" ions with the earth; I suspect that our species spent a long time barefoot/in minimal footwear, and the feedback from lots of nerves in the feet promote better alignment/good brain states.
You don't need a metaphysical theory to experience how good it feels to kick off your shoes at the beach and spread the little piggies in the sand.
+1
Often when something gets described as woo woo (not arguing with Kyle, just a general observation), it means that (usually haughty) modern science hasn't yet found a describable pathway through which the practice works. Thus, it's called superstition.
Does grounding exchange ions with the planet's magnetosphere? Or just get you barefoot outside in the grass and sun when you've been inside for years?
Does traditional Chinese medicine tweak your meridians? Or just force you to eat vegetables when you've been eating grains for years?
Is the carnivore diet the holy grail? Or did you just stop eating garbage?
In fact, I'd say that a lot of our old woo woo explanations are an early progenitor of what we now call science. We see something works. We come up with an explanation. The thing continues to work. Thus, the hypothesis is correct. Woo woo might just mean "not yet scientifically analyzed."
But. That doesn't mean it doesn't work. If believing in Odin frightens you into being a good person, well, you're still a good person. It works.
I remember years back when my Aussie naturopath friend was raving about the power of staying alkaline. His recommendation: drink fresh green juice and water with lemon, eat tons of veggies, and don't eat sugar. Alkaline or not, that's great advice. The "alkalined" folks stay healthy and produce healthy children. The cynical city dweller calls it BS and washes down his antidepressants with almond milk that has 35 unpronounceable ingredients.
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Brian Hassler
Total Posts: 616
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04-07-22 11:52 AM - Post#918741
These studies are terrible. Most untrained people will default to flailing with hammer fists in a fight, not throw straight jabs from the shoulder. There are a lot of other problems with the studies as well-- the details probably aren't so important, other than to say that science is really good, but what is inferred is limited by the context in which scientists operate. Information should not be confused with "truth".
------------------------- ------------
I've thought a lot about my own personal need to be in nature, and the artificial constructs of society. On balance, I'm glad I was not born in Sparta, as I was a weak and sickly baby and would have been tossed off the cliff, and I am glad that my nature walks don't involve fending off saber tooth tigers or getting stabbed in the face with a spear by a rival forest walker. When observed closely, nature is harsh and brutal, and everything dies a horrible death.
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Matt_T
Total Posts: 379
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04-07-22 12:06 PM - Post#918743
These studies are terrible. Most untrained people will default to flailing with hammer fists in a fight, not throw straight jabs from the shoulder. There are a lot of other problems with the studies as well-- the details probably aren't so important, other than to say that science is really good, but what is inferred is limited by the context in which scientists operate. Information should not be confused with "truth".
------------------------- ------------
I've thought a lot about my own personal need to be in nature, and the artificial constructs of society. On balance, I'm glad I was not born in Sparta, as I was a weak and sickly baby and would have been tossed off the cliff, and I am glad that my nature walks don't involve fending off saber tooth tigers or getting stabbed in the face with a spear by a rival forest walker. When observed closely, nature is harsh and brutal, and everything dies a horrible death.
Well, yeah, the second bit being the point. Everything dies a horrible death - the when and where comes often down to fight and flight, and an organism's capacity for such.
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Jordan D
Total Posts: 771
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04-07-22 12:54 PM - Post#918745
When observed closely, nature is harsh and brutal, and everything dies a horrible death.
This is not entirely true. Plenty of wild animals reach ripe old ages. But yes, nature is violent, and I think it’s worth noting that we’re the only species to overcome that violence through social cooperation. A lot of our instinctual fear of nature’s violence arises when we contemplate facing it alone. Anyone who’s watched the Alone show can see how harsh nature is, and how the competitors usually lose their minds, but that extreme isolation isn’t how earlier humans interacted with nature. Some degree of society is necessary for all but the craziest of us. It’s finding that balance that matters.
A curious bit from Sebastian Junger’s book, Tribe: “Decades before the American Revolution, Benjamin Franklin lamented that English settlers were constantly fleeing over to the Indians-but Indians almost never did the same.” Point being, if you’ve got a tribe, living in nature is often a lot more attractive than an artificial alternative.
Not that I’d do it. I like my barbells, mattress, and local wine shop a little too much.
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