Old Miler
Total Posts: 1744
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10-12-21 04:23 PM - Post#913916
Hi all,
Has anyone else here noticed a big dropoff in their work capacity at some point between 45 and 55 years old? As in, number of workouts per week you can recover from, total volume in those workouts, not being able to do hard workouts after a full day's work etc.
I'm coming to the reluctant conclusion I might have gotten older when I wasn't paying attention.
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Kyle Aaron
Total Posts: 1911
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10-12-21 07:23 PM - Post#913920
Yes.
Terry Gibbs used to say it hit in the 50s. He said something like, "I found I could do a third workout in the week, but I should not."
I've seen this a lot in the people I've trained over the years. So when newbies come and ask how often they should come, I tell them: under 50, 3 times, over 50, twice.
Of course, what they'll be doing is adding weight to the bar in every session. If you're doing something like Easy Strength or MAF it's different.
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DanMartin
Total Posts: 20705
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10-12-21 07:44 PM - Post#913922
My work capacity increased when I started doing specific work capacity efforts. Sled dragging, Bulgarian bag work, Farmer's walks, etc., etc..
That said, my "Dad" strength was way off the charts to begin with. Working hard, at hard tasks, was how I was raised. My parents showed no mercy. In fact, on the one occasion I mentioned I was tired, my Dad without missing a beat said, "if you're looking for sympathy, it's in the dictionary between shit and syphilis.
Once I started power lifting, I took to it quite well. There were times I threw up, there were times I had to lay down because I thought I was going to pass out but I never found the workouts to be work or drudgery. I knew the difference.
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Andy Mitchell
Total Posts: 5269
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60 here
Between 40 and 50 for me was a time where I thought those number are old but my work ethic had not changed and it is still the same and I’m possibly stronger now than I was back then but my recovery takes a little longer.
My focus now really is love the life I live…
Nice legs-shame about the face
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Edited by Andy Mitchell on 10-12-21 07:57 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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tom6112
Total Posts: 846
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10-13-21 12:02 AM - Post#913925
I am 60 and lift twice a week.
I found I can run 4-5 days a week if I don’t do a long run
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iPood
Total Posts: 2360
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Hi all,
Has anyone else here noticed a big dropoff in their work capacity at some point between 45 and 55 years old? As in, number of workouts per week you can recover from, total volume in those workouts, not being able to do hard workouts after a full day's work etc.
I'm coming to the reluctant conclusion I might have gotten older when I wasn't paying attention.
The biggest dropoffs I’ve noticed so far (49):
- Balance: standing on one leg and trying to put a sock on has become a real struggle. That’s why I made a point of doing it every day.
- Intensity: I still can sustain moderate efforts all day long if necessary, but intensity-wise there’s a HUGE gap between then and now.
- Recovery: even though I still can spar for an hour, I need several days to fully recover. All I needed ten years ago was a good night’s sleep.
- Energy levels: lately I’ve become completely reliant on habit and a modicum amount of discipline to cope with unpleasant tasks. I won’t even mention motivation, which is pretty much non-existent.
Now I’m beginning to understand how easy (and tempting!) is to let go of everything and become a sedentary old man.
"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness
and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums.
It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable.
Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow.
Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't."
Dan Martin |
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iPood
Total Posts: 2360
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10-13-21 02:57 AM - Post#913929
If you're doing something like Easy Strength or MAF it's different.
Maybe not that different.
Lately, I’ve began noticing that if I follow a 2on-1off-2on-2off schedule, things are easier, I recover much faster and the lifts progress a wee bit better.
"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness
and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums.
It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable.
Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow.
Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't."
Dan Martin |
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SpiderLegs
Total Posts: 369
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10-13-21 07:35 AM - Post#913935
I'm almost 55 and just got done with my annual Grand Canyon trip. It's been bus bench workouts for me since mid-summer to prepare. What I've found out this year is that I can do 2 days on and then need a full day to recover. Plus as much as I hate to throw in the towel, my running days are probably over. I can power hike all day and avoid injury, but start running on a regular basis and I pick up annoying running related issues like knee pain and the like. My Grand Canyon partner is 4 years older than me and we are similarly built and function the same, so I get to peer into my future every time we get together. He's come to the same assessment about running, even though at one time he was a stellar track runner and long time triathlete.
But was still able to pull off over 13 hours of tough off trail hiking over the course of three days in the Grand Canyon this year. Took a lot more prep, being much more careful about diet and focusing on recovery. I monitor my heart rate and HRV, four days out and I'm still in recovery mode according to my readings this morning.
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Sean S
Total Posts: 44
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10-13-21 09:54 AM - Post#913941
At 46 I have discovered that my ability to discern what is "too much" in the moment doesn't match what I feel in the days that follow. Doing something that seems moderately difficult in the moment can leave me much more sore and tired than I expect the following day(s).
It used to be that whatever I could survive in the moment would only take a day or two of recovery. That's not the case anymore. More "gentle" training like OS work and walking are much better for me these days (in general).
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dan44
Total Posts: 103
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10-13-21 10:39 AM - Post#913942
I'm almost 55 and just got done with my annual Grand Canyon trip. It's been bus bench workouts for me since mid-summer to prepare. What I've found out this year is that I can do 2 days on and then need a full day to recover. Plus as much as I hate to throw in the towel, my running days are probably over. I can power hike all day and avoid injury, but start running on a regular basis and I pick up annoying running related issues like knee pain and the like. My Grand Canyon partner is 4 years older than me and we are similarly built and function the same, so I get to peer into my future every time we get together. He's come to the same assessment about running, even though at one time he was a stellar track runner and long time triathlete.
But was still able to pull off over 13 hours of tough off trail hiking over the course of three days in the Grand Canyon this year. Took a lot more prep, being much more careful about diet and focusing on recovery. I monitor my heart rate and HRV, four days out and I'm still in recovery mode according to my readings this morning.
I'm 47 and use my time spent on the judo mat to gauge what I'm capable of, and assess the value of my current training. As for judo two hard sessions a week is all I can recover from now with any consistently. Over lock down I did a lot of running for endurance, but honestly when I got back to the mat I was finding I was getting winded. In terms of cardio I find swimming more productive and makes me feel just better - this from a lifelong runner.
For me an OS style workout once per day, is the thing I do the most consistently. Resistance wise, I may add a 30 min session but that's all dependent on how I'm feeling.
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Vicki
Total Posts: 8196
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10-13-21 03:20 PM - Post#913945
72 here. Noticable dropoff, age 70. I didn’t start serious weight lifting until 50. All was fine until my 70s at which point the main importance is to keep moving. Which program you use is not so important, fast, circuit, super set, wave, etc. Even spreading everything throughout the day works. Seniors get stiff and achy and have different issues with knees, hips, shoulders, etc.
So “the warm up is the workout” and “do it every day” become very relevant. I have found moving through as much range of motion as I can, some balance exercises, and a little huffy-puffy every day is essential. Choosing exercises to help alleviate one’s weak points helps. Some strength training is necessary. Doing more as desired is optional. Finding what you enjoy or find least detestable is important. Keep moving is essential.
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Old Miler
Total Posts: 1744
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10-13-21 03:53 PM - Post#913946
Thanks, everyone! This is fascinating. Among the above I think I am most like iPood.
The scuttlebutt from older runners tends to include tips like...
- switching to training every other day
- switching to something "impactless" (bike, row) for easy days (AKA becoming a MAMIL)
- taking afternoon naps (something Winston Churchill was big on)
- retiring from work, to conserve energy for sport ;-)
Then again, there are some who just tough it out Dan Martin style. I love that "sympathy" comment and can't wait to use it on my kids.
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AAnnunz
Total Posts: 24932
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Didn't really start to slow down until age 68. Since then, I've lost work capacity every year. In an attempt to make up some ground, I plan to start something akin to the two-day abbreviated training routine Stuart McRoberts recommends in Beyond Brawn with a KB/weighted carry conditioning circuit in between the two next week. Hope springs eternal.
| Be strong. Be in shape. Be a man among men, regardless of your age or circumstances. |
Edited by AAnnunz on 10-13-21 04:53 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Steve Rogers
Total Posts: 6158
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10-13-21 05:21 PM - Post#913950
I'm 70 and for me the wheels started coming off at 48 (primarily joints and digestion). Work capacity didn't noticeably decline until recently. I stopped running when my orthopedist told me I was a candidate for double knee replacement and advised low impact activities.
I'm currently seeing if I can return to running using the Niko Niko method and my knees are holding up well. As Al said "hope springs eternal".
| "Coyote is always waiting, and Coyote is always hungry." |
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SpiderLegs
Total Posts: 369
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10-14-21 07:52 AM - Post#913966
I live in a part of the U.S. that active retirees move to in order to keep doing their chosen sport year round. Everything from golf to cycling to running. Get an up close view of active 70-80 year olds every weekend. Plus on occasion if I have time and they have time, will chit chat with older hikers or trail runners when I'm out on a trail. Have started asking people what the secret is to training after retirement.
My personal take is that the healthiest overall group of people I see that are over 70 are the daily walkers in my neighborhood that do a minimum of a 60 minute walk or the people that do a few 2-3 hour hikes every week. The only runners that I see who can keep running fairly injury free after 55 tend to be short and slight guys. Genetics is not in my favor, even though I look thin I'm still almost 190 pounds and I'm a good 6-8 inches taller. Which puts me 40-50 pounds heavier than the guys winning my age group.
This is the week that I've pretty much decided that running is off the table for me. I've now gone almost 5 months without running and miraculously most of my minor nagging injuries have disappeared. Asked my wife about it and she said from her perspective, I look healthiest when I lift 2-3 days a week and do a long hike on the weekend.
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Cearball
Total Posts: 273
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10-14-21 11:05 AM - Post#913974
I noticed a drop off in my late 20's early 30's but at one point in my 20's I used to work 12 shift work (a mix of days & nights) in which I would move between 6-10 tonne a shift as well as train before & after work 5 days a week.
I don't think I could recover from that in my youth but just the idea of doing that at 35 gives me the chills.
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The Finn
Total Posts: 435
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10-15-21 03:39 AM - Post#913984
At 46 I have discovered that my ability to discern what is "too much" in the moment doesn't match what I feel in the days that follow. Doing something that seems moderately difficult in the moment can leave me much more sore and tired than I expect the following day(s).
It used to be that whatever I could survive in the moment would only take a day or two of recovery. That's not the case anymore. More "gentle" training like OS work and walking are much better for me these days (in general).
I'm a few years younger, but you really hit the nail on the head as I'm discovering exactly the same thing.
After turning 40 many things seemed to change.
For a time, I thought I was slowly getting out of shape and stepped up the training, but it only made it worse.
I keep reminding myself to treat the training sessions more like "punch the clock workouts" than "annihilate the muscle into oblivion workouts" because with all the other stressors in life it's really hard to recover from the harder sessions.
"My grandma Olga, a famous Finnish Powerlifter, once told me,
'Little one, take care of your gastrointestinal tract
and it'll take care of you.'
Then she struck me with some salted herring."
- TC Luoma |
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Jordan Derksen
Total Posts: 392
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10-15-21 12:52 PM - Post#913991
I noticed a drop off in my late 20's early 30's but at one point in my 20's I used to work 12 shift work (a mix of days & nights) in which I would move between 6-10 tonne a shift as well as train before & after work 5 days a week.
I don't think I could recover from that in my youth but just the idea of doing that at 35 gives me the chills.
Ya I can agree with that. In my early 20's it was working landscaping with heavy training 5x a week. During my university semesters it was double days with crossfit and olympic lifting sessions.
In my 30's I touch a barbell twice in a week and the wheels come off.
Maybe it's mostly related to lifestyle at my age. Kids, house, career. I'm pushing hard on all those things right now; there just isn't enough hours in a day to manage everything. In my 20's, even up to my late 20's, I had no major life stresses except pushing lifts in the gym.
As a 34 year old all you guys almost twice my age might be laughing 'just you wait' but I feel like I can identify with lots of the sentiments in this thread.
But this forum has helped me make big changes in priorities. Fitness and health are finally at a healthy priority level and I have so much more room in life for everything else.
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Old Miler
Total Posts: 1744
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10-15-21 01:10 PM - Post#913993
In my 30's I touch a barbell twice in a week and the wheels come off.
Maybe it's mostly related to lifestyle at my age. Kids, house, career. I'm pushing hard on all those things right now; there just isn't enough hours in a day to manage everything. In my 20's, even up to my late 20's, I had no major life stresses except pushing lifts in the gym.
Don't worry - that's your lifestyle and not your body (yet!).
There's a really solid body of evidence in results from sports like masters' track and field: the 35-40 age group is pretty thin on the ground, and the standard (and the numbers) go up when you get to 40-45 and 45-50. Not of the very best, but of the field as a whole.
The explanation is exactly what you posted, and happened to me and my friends. Hopefully you'll get 5-10 years to 'go for it' when things settle down a bit...
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Upside
Total Posts: 185
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10-15-21 03:42 PM - Post#913996
Recently 65 here.
Things were going pretty well for me up through 55 due to being consistent and knowing what things to give up. Between 40-50 I was still playing basketball with a mix of guys my age and some young bucks when I noticed that skills that were once second nature became more difficult, mixing it up underneath was harder, set shots replaced jump shots on the perimeter, etc. Along this time it became more and more evident that "competitive" basketball was no longer in the cards for me as well as distance running. It was just too hard on the feet and ankles. Recovery was lengthy. It wasn't hard for me to give up road running since I considered it a necessary evil up to that point. I had the sense not to tempt injury.
Resistance training had to be cycled around the same time. I wasn't trying to be a musclehead but having a measure of strength seemed to be a good idea. It was at this point that kettlebells entered the picture for me, mostly swings and presses. Dan's approach to programming was a revelation, punch the clock and get it done in a timely manner. I could fit some 5-3-1 into the equation after a round of Easy Strength and then start the whole process over again.
I can still accommodate ES cycles a couple of times a year. Otherwise I try to train 3x a week with a modification. Two days a week I can still perform a press--pull-hinge/squat format with the third day being a complex done for two rounds. The complex day is a tonic, if I don't feel better after the session than I did before I started then it's time to reconsider.
Aside from that it's daily resets and 5BX with walking. My late FIL planted a grass path around a four acre field behind our property years ago where I walk backwards for 200m then do a 200m stride and finish with a 400m walk to complete one lap. Sometimes the backward walk and stride portion is replaced by niko niko running.
The 5BX stuff was recommended on this site and I find it wonderful. I also have access to a wonderful facility in which to train that comes as a fringe benefit of 40 years of coaching experience in the community, top of the line Rogue equipment that would have been a tremendous playground 15-20 years ago. Now I know enough to stay in my lane.
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Mike L
Total Posts: 43
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10-16-21 10:30 AM - Post#914008
I was playing soccer up to about 40, competitive leagues in the city against a lot of younger kids, when I noticed my first slow down. The mind was willing but the body was a step behind.
Moved and took up obstacle course racing which made me train and move in a whole new way. Got to the late 40s and started to pick up cycling. The kids were older and busy so I had more free time. I tend to hit it too hard anyhow but I really ground myself up. I can do two hard days in a row but recovery takes forever. Two to three days and it started to impact my everyday living. Even one hard day takes a bit to recover, longer than I like to admit.
The reality is I can still get out for soccer, I’m still fairly strong, I can hang on 45 mile group ride, but I can rarely do intense efforts and not wreck myself later. I have to pick and choose when I want to burn my matches.
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Dan John
Total Posts: 12292
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10-16-21 11:25 AM - Post#914009
One of the problems with my athletic career is that O lifting and Track and Field have numbers. Jim Schmitz calls Master O lifting the "Farewell Tour:"
"I'll never see that weight again!"
Watching my O lifts just drop off and the mobility/flexibility issues arise has been hard on my fragile ego. But...I listen some much better now to my body, you all, experts, and, well, reality.
I'm hoping we can save this and come back in five years and add to it.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...
Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you |
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Justin Jordan
Total Posts: 854
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Old Miler
Total Posts: 1744
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iPood
Total Posts: 2360
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A hundred years old and still lifting.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mMMCNgS2jo0
"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness
and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums.
It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable.
Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow.
Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't."
Dan Martin |
Edited by iPood on 10-16-21 02:00 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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RupertC
Total Posts: 1479
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Amazing! My uncle is a sports statistician. When my grandmother was about to turn 100, he looked up the world records in various events and tried to persuade her to go for a couple. He said just dropping the shot put a few inches over the line would be enough. She said no firmly...
| Check out my critical-thinking blog at sharpenyouraxe.substack.com |
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Ricky01
Total Posts: 709
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10-17-21 09:04 AM - Post#914023
Not meaning to moan as a 37 year old, but I have noticed it recently.
My early 20's were spent making lifting mistakes, but recovering fine.
Mid twenties were spent making great progress on the rugby field, in the gym and with regards growing etc.
Late twenties the injuries started happening (torn ligaments, broken bones, herniations etc).
I also realised I wasn't supposed to be 96kg's 8% body fat and playing fairly high level rugby .... and expecting everything to go ok forever.
Now, I can still put in a big session or hit targets, but it takes a lot longer to feel fresh again.
Richard
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AAnnunz
Total Posts: 24932
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It's heartwarming to see Edith is still at it! Bill, her coach, had been training her and two other elderly ladies for a couple of years when I lived in Florida. We all competed together at Raw United Federation meets, where they were always a big hit.
| Be strong. Be in shape. Be a man among men, regardless of your age or circumstances. |
Edited by AAnnunz on 10-17-21 09:39 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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AAnnunz
Total Posts: 24932
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...I try to train 3x a week with a modification. Two days a week I can still perform a press--pull-hinge/squat format with the third day being a complex done for two rounds. The complex day is a tonic, if I don't feel better after the session than I did before I started then it's time to reconsider....
I think you're onto something you can continue at least through your seventies. Particularly like your abbreviated approach to lifting and conditioning.
I've been working on something similar, but your approach is much saner than mine and has given me some food for thought. Thank you.
| Be strong. Be in shape. Be a man among men, regardless of your age or circumstances. |
Edited by AAnnunz on 10-17-21 10:12 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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iPood
Total Posts: 2360
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It's heartwarming to see Edith is still at it! Bill, her coach, had been training her and two other elderly ladies for a couple of years when I lived in Florida. We all competed together at Raw United Federation meets, where they were always a big hit.
She is way beyond amazing!
"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness
and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums.
It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable.
Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow.
Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't."
Dan Martin |
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AAnnunz
Total Posts: 24932
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It's heartwarming to see Edith is still at it! Bill, her coach, had been training her and two other elderly ladies for a couple of years when I lived in Florida. We all competed together at Raw United Federation meets, where they were always a big hit.
She is way beyond amazing!
She sure is! So are her friends. The deadlift records the three of them set at the Polk County (Florida) Senior Games are at the top of page 16 in this attachment. If you look at the rest of the file, you'll see lots of other geezers strutting their stuff in various events. They may be "older, slower, tireder," but they're still in the game.
http://polkseniorgames.org/wp-content/uploads/20 21/02/2020-Records-1.pdf
| Be strong. Be in shape. Be a man among men, regardless of your age or circumstances. |
Edited by AAnnunz on 10-18-21 08:58 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Upside
Total Posts: 185
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...I try to train 3x a week with a modification. Two days a week I can still perform a press--pull-hinge/squat format with the third day being a complex done for two rounds. The complex day is a tonic, if I don't feel better after the session than I did before I started then it's time to reconsider....
I think you're onto something you can continue at least through your seventies. Particularly like your abbreviated approach to lifting and conditioning.
I've been working on something similar, but your approach is much saner than mine and has given me some food for thought. Thank you.
Based on your accomplishments and physique I have to say that you've been on to something for quite a while. If my present training gives you food for thought I am humbly grateful but, for pity's sake, calling me sane is a bridge too far.
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