Donald123
Total Posts: 61
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08-18-21 10:36 AM - Post#912688
Obviously the answer is yes— too much of anything is bad for you. The question is how much is too much.
About ten years ago there were studies claiming that running more than about 20 miles a week was bad for you. There were flaws in the studies and this is an update. We still don’t know the answer regarding how much is too much for endurance exercise. But I thought it was funny that using the same analysis that was used to “ prove” that running more than 20 miles a week was bad also shows that strength training more than twice a week is bad.
https://www.outsideonline.com/health/training-perfo rmance/endurance-athletes -heart-health-research-2...
I suspect that how much is too much is going to vary significantly from person to person and it boils down to common sense— if you are getting injured or feeling exhausted you are doing too much.
I almost out this in the pivot thread, as it is closely related.
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SinisterAlex
Total Posts: 369
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Steve Rogers
Total Posts: 6158
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08-18-21 02:46 PM - Post#912694
These studies seem to only measure volume or frequency of exercise but not intensity. It'd be interesting to see studies that do consider intensity and also recovery. Low intensity endurance and mobility can probably be considered recovery activities but it would be nice to see if that is indeed the case.
| "Coyote is always waiting, and Coyote is always hungry." |
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Dan John
Total Posts: 12292
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08-18-21 03:47 PM - Post#912695
Steve, that's a good point. It's like the discussion about is running, jogging or walking the best for (fill in the blank).
If you walk or run a marathon, the time/intensity thing shows up. It took my friends eight hours to walk a rucked marathon, so their (fill in the blank) would equal a four hour runners (fill in the blank).
I never know what we are studying any more...calorie burn or what. I think ten hours of training a week would do wonders. If you ran 125 miles in those ten hours, we would look at some other things.
Maffetone's ideas on a 15 minute walk, deadlifts and squats "supersetted" with three minute rests between each set for four to six rounds followed by a 15 minute walk gets you to around an hour of training (not exactly) but the benefits would be amazing.
I have been O lifting for 15-30 minutes followed by 30-45 minute walks and my body comp has completely changed.
I think the issue with all these studies is the "what do you mean by exercise."
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...
Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you |
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Kyle Aaron
Total Posts: 1911
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08-19-21 06:25 AM - Post#912699
Maffetone's ideas on a 15 minute walk, deadlifts and squats "supersetted" with three minute rests between each set for four to six rounds followed by a 15 minute walk gets you to around an hour of training (not exactly) but the benefits would be amazing.
Where does he write that?
I ask because recently my distance training programmes have looked something like this,
Workout A
Starting weight, 60% of sorta max, add 1kg a time, 2kg if you do 12+ on the as many set
Superset 1a & 1b, set interval timer for 3' per superset
1a - Back squats 3 warmup sets then 6,6,6+
1b - hip flexor stretch remainder of time
2a - press 2 warmup sets then 6,6,6,6+
2b - foam roll upper back for remainder of time
3 - farmer's walks 6 laps of driveway
brisk walk 30' - just walk away from home as far as you can get in 15', then turn around and come back
So that becomes 30' for strength with mobility mixed in, and 30' light endurance work.
Parallel evolution, or something.
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jold
Total Posts: 59
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This thread is a good complement to SpiderLegs' "When to Pivot" thread. Both are great discussions. Ten Hours a Week of Sumthin' for Health and Longevity...could be a book there.
Edited by jold on 08-19-21 07:49 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Jordan Derksen
Total Posts: 392
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08-19-21 09:57 AM - Post#912703
Who in the world has 10 hours a week to train?
At that level of involvement I’m thinking there’s a very narrow audience.
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SinisterAlex
Total Posts: 369
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From the article, loosely translated
"Amateur exercisers that are into endurance-sports.
Over the last 10-15 years, it has been discussed whether you can get harmful consequences from exercising so much that you get a sports heart. Among other things, it has been discussed whether you can get scar tissue in the heart, which can give rise to dangerous disturbances in the heart rhythm, "says Lars Juel Andersen.
"But everything points in the direction that a sports heart with enlarged heart chambers and a slightly thicker heart wall is, overall, a healthy heart," he adds."
Slightly higher risk of heart fibrillation
In the research literature, there are signs that athletes who have trained intensively for years have a slightly higher risk of getting heart fibrillation than people who train moderately, the report from the Knowledge Council also states."
Edited by SinisterAlex on 08-19-21 10:28 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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AAnnunz
Total Posts: 24932
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Who in the world has 10 hours a week to train?
At that level of involvement I’m thinking there’s a very narrow audience.
Seniors.
Since retirees have far more than 10 free hours a week, we often balance the 10 hours of weight training and cardio with 9 hours, 59 minutes, 48 seconds of alcohol consumption and 12 seconds of ferocious love making.
| Be strong. Be in shape. Be a man among men, regardless of your age or circumstances. |
Edited by AAnnunz on 08-19-21 11:05 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Brian Hassler
Total Posts: 616
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08-19-21 11:08 AM - Post#912708
In the grand scheme of things, it was not so long ago that things like walking, running, lifting, and throwing were just part of being alive, rather than some ancillary activity stuck on to the rest of one's life.
But it's different if you grow up running to catch and eat things that are also running (from you). Long term acclimation, cleaner air, natural foods, etc. all make a difference. So it's maybe not so much a question of whether or not there's a magic "too much" threshold of exercise as it is a question of how much someone tries to do with the base materials of whatever they've arrived at in the previous course of their modern lives.
That last bit, obviously, varies dramatically from one person to another. Any generalized study is likely to be of only limited use to a specific individual who's trying to figure out what to do with themselves. They'd probably be better off just doing the DMPM or going to the Dan John University workout generator.
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Jordan D
Total Posts: 771
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Since retirees have far more than 10 free hours a week, we often balance the 10 hours of weight training and cardio with 9 hours, 59 minutes, 48 seconds of alcohol consumption and 12 seconds of ferocious love making.
The original "longevity," haha.
In the grand scheme of things, it was not so long ago that things like walking, running, lifting, and throwing were just part of being alive, rather than some ancillary activity stuck on to the rest of one's life.
But it's different if you grow up running to catch and eat things that are also running (from you). Long term acclimation, cleaner air, natural foods, etc. all make a difference. So it's maybe not so much a question of whether or not there's a magic "too much" threshold of exercise as it is a question of how much someone tries to do with the base materials of whatever they've arrived at in the previous course of their modern lives.
That last bit, obviously, varies dramatically from one person to another. Any generalized study is likely to be of only limited use to a specific individual who's trying to figure out what to do with themselves. They'd probably be better off just doing the DMPM or going to the Dan John University workout generator.
This is brilliant.
If you gathered together a thousand researchers, doctors, and fitness professionals, I bet less than 10 would understand this and execute their professions accordingly.
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BChase
Total Posts: 854
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08-19-21 12:29 PM - Post#912711
It might be good for you, but you're not going to hit any set goals you have without proper recovery.
I'm not into Maffetone or A+A, I would die of complete boredom doing either, but if it works for you, great.
I don't consider walking exercise. For me, it's time to spend with my wife and dog.
I love 15-30 minute kettlebell workouts 5-6 days a week. Jack the heartrate up sky high and then get on with my day. Whether it be Geoff Neupert's More Kettlebell Muscle or The Giant, throw in a 4-5 mile run once or twice a week and I'm good.
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Arsenio Billingham
Total Posts: 159
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08-19-21 02:30 PM - Post#912714
That's really where I've settled as well. Basically I just try to "move" every day. Generally that means doing the 5bx when I wake up and a DMPM 5-ish days a week, along with lots of walking, rowing, chasing my kids, etc. Based on my Apple Watch, I average over an hour of "exercise" a day, so I'm not quite hitting that 10 hours. However, I feel like this type of park-bench style training is sustainable forever, provided I don't get bored or listen to my inner meathead - which is always a challenge.
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Upwind
Total Posts: 404
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08-19-21 05:55 PM - Post#912721
... or listen to my inner meathead - which is always a challenge.
I've got one of those, too. It's taken decades to be able to (usually) ignore him, and I haven't been able to do it alone. My wife, a physical therapist, recently told me I should never do another chest-to-floor push up--too much anterior strain on the shoulder joint. I now touch my chest to one of her foam yoga blocks. It's about fist height. Although I work out at home, at first I probably looked around to see if anyone was watching before using the block.
Presently, I'm fighting the urge to try those hand-release push ups the Army just implemented.
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Dan John
Total Posts: 12292
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08-20-21 04:27 AM - Post#912725
Kyle,
It is both in his Golf book and his newer book on Strength...actually I like the Strength book.
He recommends doing like Overhead Squats for eight maybe every hour on the hour. He pushes extremely long, for me, rest periods. Single lift stuff too.
As always, he is a bit light on the actual details but, in my experience, that's more true ("here is an idea, try it, adapt it, go...figure it out") than following exactly any plan.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...
Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you |
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The Finn
Total Posts: 435
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08-20-21 07:44 AM - Post#912727
I'm currently reading Adharanand Finn's book "The Rise of the Ultra Runners", and it addresses this subject a bit as well.
Apparently there are also many studies with contrary results.
The author cites a 2013 study from the University of Ballarat in Australia, where they found that ultra runners have a life expectancy of up to sixteen years (!?) longer than the average person. Something to do with the effect of distance running on "telomeres of the human body".
"My grandma Olga, a famous Finnish Powerlifter, once told me,
'Little one, take care of your gastrointestinal tract
and it'll take care of you.'
Then she struck me with some salted herring."
- TC Luoma |
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Old Miler
Total Posts: 1744
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08-20-21 02:48 PM - Post#912734
I'm currently reading Adharanand Finn's book "The Rise of the Ultra Runners", and it addresses this subject a bit as well.
Apparently there are also many studies with contrary results.
The author cites a 2013 study from the University of Ballarat in Australia, where they found that ultra runners have a life expectancy of up to sixteen years (!?) longer than the average person. Something to do with the effect of distance running on "telomeres of the human body".
Just scanning that study now. It says "16.2±0.26 years difference in biological age" but that's not saying they are going to live longer - just that the ones studied seemed that much younger than the control group according to telomere length. I very much doubt "biological age" is a measurable quantity beyond dispute, and in the absence of a study comparing ultra runners to mile runners, other sports etc, it's maybe just saying "sporty people look healthier".
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Cearball
Total Posts: 273
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08-20-21 03:49 PM - Post#912735
Sometimes I wonder whether I am lucky having a job that has a fair amount of walking on some days.
Works out almost 5.5 miles a day averaged over 365 days.
It's worth noting I don't wear my fitness tracker when exercising with my weights & also I was peeing blood at one point when I walked which meant 3 months minimising my walking during the time measured.
I keep thinking about adding cardio in the form of ruck marching but then I look at this & think maybe I don't need more walking maybe 10-30 mins of OS would be better.
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JonZ
Total Posts: 1021
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08-20-21 07:12 PM - Post#912737
My grandfather was a letter carrier for some years in San Francisco. He had some hills thrown in. Walking became a lifetime habit for him.
Bacon is the gateway meat. - Anthony Bourdain
The world needs fewer business majors and more history majors. - Carl Sagan
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Neander
Total Posts: 7755
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Too much for who? Studies are fine and dandy, as are massive variances in the amount of training an individual can withstand and come back from in time for another session.
Figure it out for yourself and learn a lot of things related and "unrelated" along your way, if you like.
I get so tired of people looking to others to learn about themselves. But that's me, and I ain't none too bright or successful, eh.
What I've found about walking is wonderful! My job long ago entailed a real large amount of it, while carrying a wee bit of weight. I musta rode off the excellent benefits of that 10 years of weighted walking, often up steep city streets, for a good five years and more after.
Now, and remember what was said about me not being none too bright, if people looked at their training and lifting the same way they look at their income-bringing jobs, I doubt they'd be so concerned about over training, over working and all that. When you have to do something to make ends meet, recuperation isn't even a factor. You just do it and move on and that's the end of that. Ah hell, we've all become pretty soft really, relative to what went on in the last generation, depending on how old you may be. Soft and filled with thoughts of how to not be soft, when in reality the answer is right there in front of us.
Life's too short to worry about longevity.
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Edited by Neander on 08-21-21 06:33 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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WxHerk
Total Posts: 334
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Too much for who? Studies are fine and dandy, as are massive variances in the amount of training an individual can withstand and come back from in time for another session.
Figure it out for yourself and learn a lot of things related and "unrelated" along your way, if you like.
I get so tired of people looking to others to learn about themselves.
Now, if people looked at their training and lifting the same way they look at their income-bringing jobs, I doubt they'd be so concerned about over training, over working and all that. When you have to do something to make ends meet, recuperation isn't even a factor. You just do it and move on and that's the end of that. Ah hell, we've all become pretty soft really, relative to what went on in the last generation, depending on how old you may be. Soft and filled with thoughts of how to not be soft, when in reality the answer is right there in front of us.
OK, I edited out what you said about your being not too bright ‘cause I think that’s good ol’ Toro’s fecal matter.
Seriously, this post is the final answer to so many posts on so many forums. Especially making ends meet and just moving on…
Brilliant, my good man!!
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The Finn
Total Posts: 435
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 08-24-21 04:47 AM - Post#912789
Just scanning that study now. It says "16.2±0.26 years difference in biological age" but that's not saying they are going to live longer - just that the ones studied seemed that much younger than the control group according to telomere length. I very much doubt "biological age" is a measurable quantity beyond dispute, and in the absence of a study comparing ultra runners to mile runners, other sports etc, it's maybe just saying "sporty people look healthier".
Thanks for the clarification!
"My grandma Olga, a famous Finnish Powerlifter, once told me,
'Little one, take care of your gastrointestinal tract
and it'll take care of you.'
Then she struck me with some salted herring."
- TC Luoma |
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