bigstve12
Total Posts: 115
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04-07-21 10:53 AM - Post#909494
I've been doing a lot of backwards walking up hills. I just had my first MTB ride of the season with the usual guys I ride with. I left them all in the dust! It's been months since I've ridden, the only thing I can attribute this to is the leg strength gained from the backwards walking.
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Ricky01
Total Posts: 709
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04-07-21 02:02 PM - Post#909497
Not trying to work out too many specifics, but are any of his deep split squats performed in an isometric fashion (holding the bottom position)?
I ask as the long duration ISO lunge is something I quite like, but this usually stops with front thigh parallel.
Richard
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Jordan D
Total Posts: 771
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04-07-21 04:51 PM - Post#909500
Not trying to work out too many specifics, but are any of his deep split squats performed in an isometric fashion (holding the bottom position)?
I ask as the long duration ISO lunge is something I quite like, but this usually stops with front thigh parallel.
Richard
He says to hold the bottom position for 3 seconds. It’s insanely effective. Makes all other hip flexor stretches virtually useless, and has added some really nice hypertrophy to my quads.
In fact, I just got done with 5 x 5 of these half an hour ago. Used 40lb dumbbells. 8 months ago I couldn’t do bodyweight on two aerobic steps without holding on to something for balance. The overall benefits have been tremendous, and that 3s pause is crucial. My lower body just all around WORKS better now.
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RyanH
Total Posts: 853
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ihavearedhoody
Total Posts: 13
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Not trying to work out too many specifics, but are any of his deep split squats performed in an isometric fashion (holding the bottom position)?
I ask as the long duration ISO lunge is something I quite like, but this usually stops with front thigh parallel.
Richard
He says to hold the bottom position for 3 seconds. It’s insanely effective. Makes all other hip flexor stretches virtually useless, and has added some really nice hypertrophy to my quads.
In fact, I just got done with 5 x 5 of these half an hour ago. Used 40lb dumbbells. 8 months ago I couldn’t do bodyweight on two aerobic steps without holding on to something for balance. The overall benefits have been tremendous, and that 3s pause is crucial. My lower body just all around WORKS better now.
Don't tell Dan... "Coach, it's the lunges this year!!!" ;)
Looking at it... it's a "gymnastic ring" strap.
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Old Miler
Total Posts: 1744
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I've got to admit I am finding the ATG squats a challenge. I started doing some faster running 6 weeks ago (not "hard", but more strides and tempo-pace intervals, so mechanically faster than I was used to). Then I started KOT 3 weeks ago. My lower quads (or above-knees or whatever you call it) got really sore and just wouldn't recover until I took about 5 days off knee/quad stuff. And the first split second "coming out of the bottom position" feels quite painful in an "am-I-straining-something " way. A pity, as I love that stretch in the bottom position.
Do the cognoscenti come out of these by pushing "back" with hips in the first instance, or "up"? Seems to make a big difference, as it does with a normal squat.
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Jordan D
Total Posts: 771
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Do the cognoscenti come out of these by pushing "back" with hips in the first instance, or "up"? Seems to make a big difference, as it does with a normal squat.
When it’s heavy or late in a tiring set, I’m pushing back. On the crisp reps, it’s up. The best benefits, I suspect, come from keeping the reps crisp and fresh. Practice, not grinding. It all seems to be about getting the body to work correctly before adding resistance.
Despite Dan’s aversion to lunges, I think he might get behind these. They’re a different animal. Their relationship to the barbell squat is more like the relationship between 1-arm DB bench presses and the barbell bench. It illuminates weak points in the oddest places.
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DanMartin
Total Posts: 20705
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Do the cognoscenti come out of these by pushing "back" with hips in the first instance, or "up"? Seems to make a big difference, as it does with a normal squat.
When it’s heavy or late in a tiring set, I’m pushing back. On the crisp reps, it’s up. The best benefits, I suspect, come from keeping the reps crisp and fresh. Practice, not grinding. It all seems to be about getting the body to work correctly before adding resistance.
Despite Dan’s aversion to lunges, I think he might get behind these. They’re a different animal. Their relationship to the barbell squat is more like the relationship between 1-arm DB bench presses and the barbell bench. It illuminates weak points in the oddest places.
Whoa, whoa, whoa...to be clear the ATG split squat is not, repeat not a lunge.
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Jordan D
Total Posts: 771
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Whoa, whoa, whoa...to be clear the ATG split squat is not, repeat not a lunge.
Haha. Oh, I concur. Different beast entirely. I was just responding to this...
Don't tell Dan... "Coach, it's the lunges this year!!!" ;)
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Roger Clarvin
Total Posts: 72
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04-11-21 01:26 PM - Post#909582
In my second week of Knee Ability Zero. Had a bit of a breakthrough on the ATG split squats yesterday. Had something to do with concentrating on glute activation on the front leg (both legs, really) during the descent/eccentric. Man, what a great movement when you get it dialed in.
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Old Miler
Total Posts: 1744
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04-13-21 04:27 PM - Post#909611
Hi all. I ran this for two weeks on top of too much running - quads already sore, the extra eccentrics made me even sorer. Rested a week and restarted reasonably and it's...reasonable!
They suggest spending Tuesday and Thursday on an upper body program:
- 50 band pullouts
- 3x10 ring pushups alternating 3x10 ring/TRX rows
- 50 more band pullouts
- HALF AN HOUR of timed stretches lasting 1-2min each for everything in the lower body
So for once in my life I actually stretched for the amount of time the physios have always told me to. I am pretty sure this is part of the secret sauce.
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DanMartin
Total Posts: 20705
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04-13-21 06:37 PM - Post#909613
To digress a bit, I was doing some more deep diving on the KOT YouTube videos. One thing, well really two things. Patrick said he did over 10,000 ATG split squats and walked backwards over 100 miles
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Brian Hassler
Total Posts: 616
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04-14-21 12:56 AM - Post#909618
Hi all. I ran this for two weeks on top of too much running - quads already sore, the extra eccentrics made me even sorer. Rested a week and restarted reasonably and it's...reasonable!
They suggest spending Tuesday and Thursday on an upper body program:
- 50 band pullouts
- 3x10 ring pushups alternating 3x10 ring/TRX rows
- 50 more band pullouts
- HALF AN HOUR of timed stretches lasting 1-2min each for everything in the lower body
So for once in my life I actually stretched for the amount of time the physios have always told me to. I am pretty sure this is part of the secret sauce.
I found that doing the exercises at the end of my other activities, rather than as a warmup, helps. Also, I've started interpreting the "no pain" rule to mean "nothing more than (very) mild fatigue". With those two things, my knees have been much happier, both relative to the workouts and in general.
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Old Miler
Total Posts: 1744
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04-14-21 02:37 PM - Post#909645
Me too, the ATG squats are not hurting at all any more. I can just about do them on the ground, but feel my form is better with front foot on a 4 inch brick. I do feel this strange urge to press a dumbell or something and turn them into a half-kneeling press!
But really trying to stretch for a long period like 2x60sec each side, five days a week is a lot (he has the couch stretch and outer hip stretches in there every day). I'm hoping one day soon I start to loosen up.
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Roger Clarvin
Total Posts: 72
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08-22-21 09:06 AM - Post#912768
A few months later and I am still doing this. Just started "Dense." This has been a welcome diversion after years of doing basically the same stuff.
In the long run, I don't know to whether this will end up completely revolutionizing my training life, but even if the long term takeaways are nothing more than:
(1) do a little something that really closes up the knee--eg ATG split squats, reverse nordics,
(2) do a little lower leg stuff--eg tib raises and slant board calf raises, and
(3) think more about hamstring flexibility--eg slant board Jefferson curls
well then that is a lot.
All stuff I really haven't paid much attention to at all over the years. All stuff that feels really good.
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Roger Clarvin
Total Posts: 72
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08-22-21 09:11 AM - Post#912769
Long term I think I see this stuff as becoming part of my standard warmup/mobility routine for more conventional barbell/kb/running workouts.
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ledfistaco
Total Posts: 808
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08-23-21 09:53 AM - Post#912784
Nice to hear. I am still on zero. I regressed to elevated split squats and upped volume.
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Upside
Total Posts: 185
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08-23-21 03:58 PM - Post#912786
The combination of backward walking, Patrick step-ups, and tib raises have my left knee feeling better than it has in a couple of years. Medical science (which has been good to me for virtually everything else) has been unable to determine any reason for my left knee being unable to reach full extension. No arthritis, just a partial-thickness tear of a meniscus that I was already aware of and was told needed no surgery. It was 8 degrees deficient when assessed and now is 3 degrees after six months of the aforementioned exercises.
As others have pointed out the keys seem to be patience and commitment. Patrick himself says that it takes 100 hours of backward walking.
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Roger Clarvin
Total Posts: 72
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08-29-21 08:37 PM - Post#912910
Using a lifting belt and a bench for nordics—which are wholly eccentric at this point. Works fine. But my bench is nice and squishy.
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Old Miler
Total Posts: 1744
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08-31-21 04:25 PM - Post#912958
I found out that my deadlifting barbell works perfectly for nordic curls. With a bit of extra mat or cushion under the feet, and trainers on, my heels end up hooked under a 100kg bar that doesn't move. It's way easier to slide heels under it lying on the floor than to strap yourself down to a bench.
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Chris Rice
Total Posts: 702
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08-31-21 07:18 PM - Post#912960
I found out that my deadlifting barbell works perfectly for nordic curls. With a bit of extra mat or cushion under the feet, and trainers on, my heels end up hooked under a 100kg bar that doesn't move. It's way easier to slide heels under it lying on the floor than to strap yourself down to a bench.
Pool noodles make great padding for the bar
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Roger Clarvin
Total Posts: 72
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09-01-21 09:58 AM - Post#912972
I found out that my deadlifting barbell works perfectly for nordic curls. With a bit of extra mat or cushion under the feet, and trainers on, my heels end up hooked under a 100kg bar that doesn't move. It's way easier to slide heels under it lying on the floor than to strap yourself down to a bench.
Pool noodles make great padding for the bar
These are some hot tips right here. Thanks.
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Roger Clarvin
Total Posts: 72
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09-16-21 09:22 PM - Post#913379
Worth it to get a tib bar? I have resisted. How much better than just doing the toe raises standing against wall?
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ledfistaco
Total Posts: 808
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09-17-21 11:14 AM - Post#913389
Worth it to get a tib bar? I have resisted. How much better than just doing the toe raises standing against wall?
I have been doing the KOT and am interested in somehow loading the thib through a greater ROM than the toe raises. Seems like the tib bar or a diy version would be useful.
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Chris Rice
Total Posts: 702
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09-17-21 12:54 PM - Post#913391
Worth it to get a tib bar? I have resisted. How much better than just doing the toe raises standing against wall?
I have been doing the KOT and am interested in somehow loading the thib through a greater ROM than the toe raises. Seems like the tib bar or a diy version would be useful.
It's pretty easy to make one up for very little money
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ledfistaco
Total Posts: 808
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09-17-21 01:09 PM - Post#913392
Yeah. There are a number of plan designs out there already. PVC, plumbing pipe...
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Chris Rice
Total Posts: 702
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09-17-21 02:42 PM - Post#913394
find someone who welds and show them a picture - won't take them but a minute and you'll something nice for not much money. Use a "pool noodle" for the padding
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Old Miler
Total Posts: 1744
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09-17-21 04:42 PM - Post#913397
Worth it to get a tib bar? I have resisted. How much better than just doing the toe raises standing against wall?
I made myself a big wooden wedge a few years ago for eccentric knee exercises. It lets me stand on a 25 degree slope. Worked out great both for toe raises, and for calf raises, depending which way I face. A few old bits of wood and screws, and some glued-on sandpaper for grip.
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Jason J
Total Posts: 33
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Chris Rice
Total Posts: 702
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ledfistaco
Total Posts: 808
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09-24-21 05:16 PM - Post#913551
You may have learned about Monkey feet from KOT guy but I found this ad from a 1941 issue of Strength and Health. Monkey feet right there!
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Steve Rogers
Total Posts: 6158
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09-24-21 05:38 PM - Post#913552
You may have learned about Monkey feet from KOT guy but I found this ad from a 1941 issue of Strength and Health. Monkey feet right there!
KOT guy doesn't claim to have invented any of this, but he has put it together in easy to access form.
| "Coyote is always waiting, and Coyote is always hungry." |
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Ville
Total Posts: 2770
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09-25-21 05:49 AM - Post#913555
Is there a video how the tibialis bar is used? By the KOT guy?
When I google tib bar, I find a lot of videos how to make one, but not sure how it is used or what does it do. Is it used for knee (p)rehab?
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Steve Rogers
Total Posts: 6158
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Mark Fenner
Total Posts: 60
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09-26-21 12:39 PM - Post#913566
Has anyone tried (and succeeded) using a band setup for assistance on the nordic curls?
The goal being that instead of using progressive range of motion, you would use progressive weight through a full range of motion.
I briefly tried a few different setups (with bands in a squat rack with pull up bar) and none of them really gave a nice "resistance curve" throughout the movement. For reference, I tried from the pull up bar straight down, from the perpendicular cross piece that runs to a cable stack, and from the opposite (far side) rack posts with a variety of bands. None really "worked".
(One side note: these are so different from glute-ham raises. In fairness, I haven't done GHRs since about 2007, so my memory is "fuzzy". But the nordics are just a whole other level of hell.)
So, I'm curious about other's experience in trying to setup bands.
Thanks,
Mark
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Jordan D
Total Posts: 771
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09-26-21 02:11 PM - Post#913567
That video is absolute gold.
That point about using the tibialis to pull you into ankle flexion was a huge epiphany for me. Knee pain just vanished immediately. Like a light switch.
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Dan Christensen
Total Posts: 122
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09-28-21 01:32 AM - Post#913595
It's a bit tangential, but I'm sure I heard Emmet Louis (the Irish stretching bloke) recommend some tib exercises if you are training for more ankle mobility, e.g. alternate calf stretches with tib work, or use a tib contraction to pull yourself deeper into a calf stretch.
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DanMartin
Total Posts: 20705
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09-28-21 11:00 AM - Post#913599
That video is absolute gold.
That point about using the tibialis to pull you into ankle flexion was a huge epiphany for me. Knee pain just vanished immediately. Like a light switch.
I have a Tib Bar and it's great. That said, I did the standing Tibialis raise for three months beforehand. As far as results, the Tib Bar provides a better means of feedback than the standing version, IMO. But, the standing version is free.
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ledfistaco
Total Posts: 808
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09-30-21 09:40 AM - Post#913637
Yep, I wasn't saying he claims authorship.
He is remarkably open with sharing his info. One really can do most of his programs/ideas just from his youtube videos.
You may have learned about Monkey feet from KOT guy but I found this ad from a 1941 issue of Strength and Health. Monkey feet right there!
KOT guy doesn't claim to have invented any of this, but he has put it together in easy to access form.
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DanMartin
Total Posts: 20705
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09-30-21 11:14 AM - Post#913640
Yep, I wasn't saying he claims authorship.
He is remarkably open with sharing his info. One really can do most of his programs/ideas just from his youtube videos.
You may have learned about Monkey feet from KOT guy but I found this ad from a 1941 issue of Strength and Health. Monkey feet right there!
KOT guy doesn't claim to have invented any of this, but he has put it together in easy to access form.
The " Zero" program is all there on YouTube. It is worth a deep dive. Bookmark them all for your review.
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Steve Rogers
Total Posts: 6158
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09-05-22 11:35 AM - Post#921669
This worked so well that I stopped doing it. Now at 7 weeks out from my left total knee replacement I think it's time to revisit it for the next chapter of my rehabilitation. How are others doing with it?
| "Coyote is always waiting, and Coyote is always hungry." |
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DanMartin
Total Posts: 20705
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09-05-22 07:30 PM - Post#921678
This worked so well that I stopped doing it. Now at 7 weeks out from my left total knee replacement I think it's time to revisit it for the next chapter of my rehabilitation. How are others doing with it?
It's worth your effort! I've taken a KOT break right. Been featuring up on Heavy Hands. I'll be back at for 6 weeks next month.
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Old Miler
Total Posts: 1744
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09-06-22 03:55 AM - Post#921688
I'll be back at for 6 weeks next month.
So that's your secret! You can pack in 50% more into a month than the rest of us...
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Jordan D
Total Posts: 771
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09-06-22 11:47 AM - Post#921710
I’ve since made bodyweight ATG squats a permanent part of my warmup. (Noting I spent half a year mastering the basics first). I’m happy with that. It’s a great tool for the box. Not as universally applicable as goblet squats, but a great thing to keep the legs working well.
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warrior
Total Posts: 1096
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09-13-22 01:32 PM - Post#921876
I'm aware of knees over toes guy as I'm a rec basketball player (was until about 2 years ago) and have obsessed about jumping since I was a kid. I've chatted with him and some of his "disciples" online.
He's got some cool ideas, etc. Some I don't agree with though. That most people in this field honestly.
Some of it reminds me of some of Charles Poliquin's stuff. Ex: the emphasis on vmo, knee health, tb raises, knees over toes concept which Poliquin talked about on T-nation and other places many years ago.
I brought up a similar question here on this same forum/website 5 years ago.
(https://www.davedraper.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/35639/)
Interestingly enough, I know DJ hate's unilateral lifts for legs in general but in this article below, he was recommending split squats.
https://www.t-nation.com/training/the-best-exe rcises/
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Brian Hassler
Total Posts: 616
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09-13-22 03:01 PM - Post#921877
KTO Guy credits the foundation of all his stuff to what he learned from Poliquin, so finding it reminiscent of Poliquin's work should be less than surprising.
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warrior
Total Posts: 1096
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09-14-22 08:55 AM - Post#921900
Brian-I understand and that makes sense. That was merely my observation of the guy as I've learned a ton from guys like Poliquin, DJ, Coach Davies, Pavel, Ian King, etc. the list goes on and on. I've been reading T-nation since it was T-mag, Testosterone magazine and all of that in 1999 ish. DJ's early stuff too. I was deployed and a young avid reader trying to learn from all of the greats.
I wasn't aware of that though as I don't really read all of KOT's stuff to that level of detail. I've read his stuff briefly and exchanged some emails with a few of his guys but I stopped after a while. I don't really know his "credentials" other than being a rec hooper (as I am too) who can jump. That's cool and I fully support him. He's impressive no doubt but for the records I'm older than him, way more "wounded" and can still hang with him in some jumping movements like broad, box, etc. I'm heavier too. Not too much "new" stuff I'm learning from him that's all but he's okay.
Re backward walking-I'm not sure what the distance is he's recommending etc. but I've always done short backwards sprints for sports purposes, etc. and maybe a short distance walk backward (love hills too but mostly just forward sprints for hills for me personally but I've done backward and forward and sideways too in Signal Hill Long Beach on Hill street lol) like say 40-100 meters.
I'm not walking 1-2 miles backwards though no.
Nothing new, nothing magical but yes I've done most of those exercises for years off and on. Good stuff actually, some of it.
The split squat is also extremely tough and beneficial for sports/life doing isometric static holds. You don't have to always rep out everything and/or use a lot or any load.
I guarantee you, most people I see try it, can't even hold it 15-30 seconds with good upright posture. Try a minute first, let me know and then there's several tweaks I can make as well that don't require load, some load, etc.
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