Surviving/breaking a fall -
davedraper.com home Home | Dave's Q&A | IOL Blog | DanJohn.net

Shout box
Recent topics


Dan John's Wandering Weights: Our Epic Journey Through All Things Heavy
Click here for details and to sign up for this FREE weekly commentary

*****

Quick Links: Main Index | Flight Deck | Training Logs | Dan John Deck | Must Reads | Archive | Private Topics

Display Name Post: Surviving/breaking a fall        (Topic#37616)
Arthax
*
Total Posts: 147
03-03-21 07:20 AM - Post#908424    



Saw this on reddit. Looks like this gentleman is fit a able to break/brace the fall. Remember to train/practice falling.

Link
 
Dan John
*
Total Posts: 11894
03-03-21 09:21 AM - Post#908427    



That's a tough fall. He kept his head safe which is pretty amazing considering the dynamics there.

It's a good reminder...
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
Ricky01
*
Total Posts: 644
03-03-21 10:12 AM - Post#908429    



He did well not to come down hard on his elbow which can mean elbow collar bone injuries.

Falls prevention courses are great for the elderly (and everyone), but I think even more important is falls recovery - ie if you do fall, how do you get back up (especially if hurt)?!

Richard
 
Mr. Kent
*
Total Posts: 434
03-03-21 12:09 PM - Post#908437    



I remember the first weeks of Judo training were solely dedicated to learning how to fall. I'm not sure if most schools still take this approach (or how easy it is to find a traditional Judo school anymore), but that may be an avenue for people to find fall techniques.
 
GeoffreyLevens
*
Total Posts: 346
03-04-21 10:50 AM - Post#908483    



Aikido may not be a very good form for actual fighting but it is great movement training. The sensei I trained under for several years put huge emphasis on protecting yourself in all positions, at all angles, and in every variety of motion.

30 years later, after essentially no further training or practice, I was helping load a very heavy milk/cream separator onto the roof of a friends pickup truck. We lost the balance and it went down hard and fast. I did not let go fast enough and did a full flight superman crash over the roof of the truck, yanked there by my hand being connected to all the falling weight. Managed to land in a perfect front roll and back up to my feet, not even a scratch or a bruise. I got a round of applause from everyone there.

Month or two ago, there was light dusting of snow over black ice on a sloping section of sidewalk where I was walking. Not at a run but pretty much duplicated the dynamics of the fall in the OP. Several times actually, before I could get to solid footing. Again no real injuries though my neck was a bit sore from sudden "overuse" keeping my head from bonking the ground.

Made me realize how important this issue is and that I need to get back to it. Planning in next few weeks to start some serious "ground work" rolling and tumbling practice, toned down to suit my aged carcass. Have already been doing neck/wrestlers' bridges in smallish doses to somewhat whiplash proof my neck. Other benefits as well of course
 
Pepper
*
Total Posts: 252
03-04-21 03:49 PM - Post#908495    



Yeah, I'm just happy he didn't reach for the floor and blow his elbow or shoulder out. Stiff-arming the floor is one of the first things my judo teacher told me not to do.

I think I might have mentioned that already, but having some falling skills has saved my life at least once. I went over the handle bars at high speed, and here is the cool thing: I remember losing balance, then there is nothing, and then I am suddenly standing a few meters further down the parking garage and the only thing that hurts is the fleshy part of my forearm and my hand--the parts you use in a proper break fall. I wish I had a video of that.

But yeah, what my teacher always told me is to take falls actively. So once you go down, don't fight it, but try to actively fall well. Falling is a technique and just dropping isn't. It's well worth spending time on.
 
Dan Christensen
*
Total Posts: 101
Surviving/breaking a fall
03-04-21 10:07 PM - Post#908504    



Amos Rendao has made a pretty serious study of breakfalls (and breakfall disasters).

He's got the webpage: http://www.amosrendao.com/parkour-ukemi

And a YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMjErPbXm3vk fKXi_pyxZtQ

I've only skimmed it, but I've got tremendous admiration for how he's approached the topic.

(All that said, I don't really learn well from videos - I'd rather go to Judo or check out a Parkour gym)

Edited by Dan Christensen on 03-04-21 10:08 PM. Reason for edit: Wrong youtube page
 
Brian Hassler
*
Total Posts: 482
03-05-21 10:26 AM - Post#908515    



I've found that time spent on the ground is as or more important than actual breakfall techniques. I did my hundreds of hours in Feldenkrais practitioner training, but a more moderate diet of OS and Dan John's get back ups might do almost as well.

Being able to bend the knees is crucial, as is spine mobility-- it's all about lowering the weight in as controlled a way as possible. I would say more instinctual control than conscious control. So maybe add goblet squats to the above.

I remember one particularly icy winter I had been falling a lot while out walking the dog. At one point my feet shot out from under me on the ice, and as I was falling I thought about what was in each of my pockets and contorted myself so as not to land on anything pointy or break anything expensive. When that's your only concern in falling, you've reached "first world" falling status.
 
iPood
*
Total Posts: 2172
03-05-21 10:44 AM - Post#908516    



  • Brian Hassler Said:
I've found that time spent on the ground is as or more important than actual breakfall techniques. I did my hundreds of hours in Feldenkrais practitioner training, but a more moderate diet of OS and Dan John's get back ups might do almost as well.



It would be rather interesting to read a post about Feldenkrais and see how it compares to OS, GFM, MovNat...

So, if you are ever in the right mood...
"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness
and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums.
It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable.
Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow.
Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't."

Dan Martin


 
Pepper
*
Total Posts: 252
03-05-21 12:31 PM - Post#908517    



Regarding Feldenkrais, just FYI: He was a Judo black belt and even got his from Kano, AFAIK. I have two of his judo books. If you get a hold of his first, there is a solid explanation of falling skills in there -- and it is written in a way meant to be accessible to people learning without a teacher.
 
Jordan Derksen
*
Total Posts: 190
Surviving/breaking a fall
03-05-21 01:33 PM - Post#908518    



Being strong and flexible in general helps a lot. Weight training also teaches one tension, and if you do the right exercises you get the one piece effect Dan talks about.

This winter I've ate it twice on my bike, both times on my driveway. The sun melts the snow on warmer days and it freezes overnight. Both times I walked away without even an ache. Just a quick laugh, get back up and keep going. But I am young I (33), and I did a lot of parkour as a teen so I got comfortable rolling around and jumping from heights. That likely played a role (ha).

edit: Just thought of this, but I've also felt this armor building effect from heavy compound weight training in hockey. For years when my skating ability was weak I fell a lot, slid into the boards, goalposts, and would occasionally run into other people. It's never been anything I can't shake off quickly and keep going.




Edited by Jordan Derksen on 03-05-21 01:36 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
Henry
*
Total Posts: 1167
03-05-21 04:09 PM - Post#908522    



I did Aikido for 4 years (8 hours a week) and some Systema falls and rolls. Working on building sites have had some wipeouts and helped a lot. Number one - tuck your chin in.



 
Old Miler
*
Total Posts: 1591
03-05-21 05:06 PM - Post#908525    



This is a big gap in my training. I did Judo from age 10 to 15 and was pretty good at falling off a bike and not getting hurt. More recently I am sure I have lost the reflex, and my balance got worse since a stroke 2 years ago. When it warms up I really need to start practicing on the front lawn.
 
Jordan D
*
Total Posts: 481
03-05-21 05:59 PM - Post#908533    



I still don't think this is something you have to train. 23% of elderly fall injuries happen outside or in the garden, but the rest happen on the stairs, in the bedroom or living room surrounded by furniture, or in the bathroom - places you can't tuck and roll. Learn to fall, yes. But it's probably more important to preserve your balance through exercise and to maintain a nice sheath of muscle around those brittle bones.

Armor building, if you will.
 
AusDaz
*
Total Posts: 3543
Surviving/breaking a fall
03-05-21 06:10 PM - Post#908534    



Falling well requires technique, timing and tension - kind of like, well, everything else we do really.

I’ve noticed over about 20 years of martial arts practice that people who are too tense and too rigid - often big, strong guys who instinctively try and muscle things - fall like bricks. They don’t have long careers. They apply all of their tension to avoiding being thrown in the first place.

But the people who can accept a fall (which involves going from rigid to relaxed), tuck in and then refocus their tension on impact and hitting off - bounce back and keep coming back.



Edited by AusDaz on 03-05-21 06:10 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
Pepper
*
Total Posts: 252
Re: Surviving/breaking a fall
03-06-21 06:05 AM - Post#908543    



  • AusDaz Said:
Falling well requires technique, timing and tension - kind of like, well, everything else we do really.

I’ve noticed over about 20 years of martial arts practice that people who are too tense and too rigid - often big, strong guys who instinctively try and muscle things - fall like bricks. They don’t have long careers. They apply all of their tension to avoiding being thrown in the first place.

But the people who can accept a fall (which involves going from rigid to relaxed), tuck in and then refocus their tension on impact and hitting off - bounce back and keep coming back.





You say it so much better than I would have. Yes to everything. And also: The big, strong guys often fall the hardest in my experience, too. They can muscle one, two, three falls, maybe -- but then they get tired. And then they get hurt.
 
Kyle Aaron
*
Total Posts: 1770
03-12-21 12:37 AM - Post#908762    



Our state Premier this last weekend slipped on some wet stairs at his holiday house while getting ready for work. He broke some ribs, and his T7 vertebra.

Typically injuries like this mean a month in hospital with surgery and a brace for another 3-6 months. If you turn down the surgery and just use the brace you can get back to work quicker, but this means multiple surgeries in the coming years instead.

Overall it's 6-12 months of solid work doing nothing but your rehab. It's very painful, and about 1 in 4 end up addicted to opiates, and 1 in 3 end up with severe depression.

At the moment he and his supporters appear to be in denial about this, but: his new career is now going to be rehab.

He is, by the way, 48 years old, and overweight but not obese. But like all politicians of any prominence, he works long hours and is sedentary with poor food.

This has prompted articles on how to prevent falls. They generally make some vague mention of strength training, but include things like Pilates. We have to lift.
Athletic Club East
Strength in numbers


 
jamej
*
Total Posts: 494
03-12-21 07:27 AM - Post#908768    



There are a few, very few, judo and aikido clubs that teach advanced break falling. If that is all you did for exercise you'd be mighty impressive and you could walk away from almost any slip or trip with a smile on your face. Check it out on you tube, "advanced break falls".
r/ Jim
 
Old Miler
*
Total Posts: 1591
03-12-21 02:16 PM - Post#908780    



When I was a kid I went through a martial arts phase with a friend. We wanted to be ninjas, SAS men etc etc. One thing we did was practice breakfalls to extreme for a few months, although we weren't that tough as we did them on grass. I remember two of us practicing diving forwards from a chest high fence onto the grass and rolling, doing a ton of highly contrived/cooperative judo throws, and practicing PLFs dropping from increasingly high tree branches and rope swings, and more. Generally any stuff we saw in a movie.

Amazingly nothing broke and it probably saved me from much worse things falling off bicycles when I was a few years older. With hindsight, if parkour had existed then we'd have been into it.
 
The Other Dan
*
Total Posts: 46
Surviving/breaking a fall
03-12-21 09:16 PM - Post#908785    



This topic is one of the best nuggets that Dan passed along and I can't thank him enough. I advised my elderly mom to avoid falls at all costs and she does balance exercises. She lives in senior apartment now and sees firsthand the results of senior falls. One resident just a few weeks ago fell while chasing after a runaway cart and bonked her head and got instant dementia. It's a shame as she was sharp a tack before the fall.

Edited by The Other Dan on 03-12-21 09:17 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
SpiderLegs
*
Total Posts: 303
03-13-21 07:06 AM - Post#908793    



The church I attend has a significant percentage of folks over 70 in attendance. It was telling a couple of years ago when our pastor was doing some of the prayer requests. One of our beloved congregants had fallen for the second time in a month. The audible gasp from the crowd in the pews told the story, they all knew how this was going to play out.
 
Dan John
*
Total Posts: 11894
03-13-21 05:20 PM - Post#908801    



I was just with a group of younger people discussing the need to learn falling NOW versus when you absolutely have to...
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
Andy Mitchell
*
Total Posts: 5179
03-14-21 03:55 AM - Post#908816    



  • Kyle Aaron Said:
Our state Premier this last weekend slipped on some wet stairs at his holiday house while getting ready for work. He broke some ribs, and his T7 vertebra.

Typically injuries like this mean a month in hospital with surgery and a brace for another 3-6 months. If you turn down the surgery and just use the brace you can get back to work quicker, but this means multiple surgeries in the coming years instead.

Overall it's 6-12 months of solid work doing nothing but your rehab. It's very painful, and about 1 in 4 end up addicted to opiates, and 1 in 3 end up with severe depression.

At the moment he and his supporters appear to be in denial about this, but: his new career is now going to be rehab.

He is, by the way, 48 years old, and overweight but not obese. But like all politicians of any prominence, he works long hours and is sedentary with poor food.

This has prompted articles on how to prevent falls. They generally make some vague mention of strength training, but include things like Pilates. We have to lift.



Kyle
Dan Andrew’s is not overweight, secondly could you please supply links to those articles as to the vague mention of strength training.

Finally it appears Andrew’s fell in a way that consistent to someone being drunk, in that there where no injury to elbows arms and shoulder.
Nice legs-shame about the face


 
Brian Hassler
*
Total Posts: 482
03-14-21 12:55 PM - Post#908821    



When taught by a qualified professional, Pilates is probably better than conventional strength training for fall prevention and recovery, due to the mobility and cognitive elements inherent in the exercises. Pilates can also build quite a bit of strength, as well. Not to powerlifting or weightlifting levels, of course, but more than adequate for GPP and possibly sport, as well, depending on what you're into. Pilates was a contemporary of Attila, Sandow, et al, and quite familiar with their work. All the apparatus and springs, etc. came from his time working with sick people in a Polish (IIRC) internment camp in WWI. He diverged from the performance/bodybuilding focus to improving the health of the general populace, but also did a lot of work with professional boxers and dancers.

The big, fat caveat on all of that is "qualified professional". The Pilates name is totally unprotected legally, so anyone can do anything they want and call it Pilates.
 
Justin Jordan
*
Total Posts: 718
03-14-21 08:24 PM - Post#908829    



  • Dan John Said:
I was just with a group of younger people discussing the need to learn falling NOW versus when you absolutely have to...



This is why I trip children.

Just helping them out.
 
Brian Hassler
*
Total Posts: 482
03-14-21 11:27 PM - Post#908832    



  • Justin Jordan Said:
  • Dan John Said:
I was just with a group of younger people discussing the need to learn falling NOW versus when you absolutely have to...



This is why I trip children.

Just helping them out.



Ahead of their time, really...

https://movieboozer.com/wp-content/uploads/20 14/08/lucy-football.jpg
 
Quick Links: Main Index | Flight Deck | Training Logs | Dan John Deck | Must Reads | Archive | Private Topics
Icon Legend Permissions & Sharing Options Topic options

FACEBOOKFACEBOOK
TWITTERTWITTER
GOOGLEGOOGLE
DIGGDIGG
DELICIOUSDELICIOUS
STUMBLEUPONSTUMBLEUPON
Print topic


1042 Views

Home | Dave's Q&A | IOL Blog | DanJohn.net

What's New | Weekly Columns | Weight Training Tips
General Nutrition | Draper History | IronOnline Forum | IOL Blog | Mag Cover Shots | Magazine Articles | Bodybuilding Q&A | Bomber Talk | Workout FAQs
Site Map | Contact IronOnline | Privacy Policy


Top