01-27-21 06:18 PM - Post#907258    

I’m getting into them and loving how they feel. What’s the end game for these? Is it to do 100 or 200 straight or can they be used for something less about endurance? What’s a solid 4 day a week rep / scheme for all around benefit?

01-28-21 09:49 AM - Post#907266    

100 or more straight would be more of a test day for me. I like to do kettlebell snatches in A+A (Alactic & Aerobic) fashion. Take a heavy for you weight with which you can do 10 second sprint sets (about 5 reps) without much lactate buildup then rest aerobically between sets.

"Coyote is always waiting, and Coyote is always hungry."

01-28-21 10:14 AM - Post#907268    

I don't "program" them - I just do them - sometimes light and long - sometimes heavy and short - mostly in the middle. I think it depends on the goal that you want from them :)
Do you have Grivory Sport type goals of 10 minute sets with one hand switch or would you rather go for snatching the Beast - or something else?

01-28-21 10:36 AM - Post#907269    

Snatches are great for the "all around benefits" you mentioned.

The most common "goal" with snatches is the RKC/SFG snatch test -- 100 reps in 5 minutes with 24k (for men), so that's a good place to start.

There are certainly plenty of people here with far more knowledge than me about programming, but I would just say that four days a week is a lot for snatches, when you are starting out using them regularly. Two or three is much more reasonable IMO.

One other thing I will say is if you want to move toward either the snatch test or some other goal involving a 24k or larger KB, the benefits of using lighter bells were nonexistent for me. Dan has indicated before that some of his folks had success using lighter bells to just get used to the feeling of 100, but it never did anything for me. As always, YMMV, as they say...

01-28-21 02:13 PM - Post#907276    

One day, with my asst coach, I pressed the Beast and then did 200 snatches in ten minutes with the 24k.

This was the goal of the Rite of Passage. I did it and I won't do it again.

I like this kind of goal, by the way. If this is something you like, then snatch two to three times a week and do a fair number of clean and presses.

Daniel John Just handing down what I was handed down... Make a Difference. Live. Love. Laugh. Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude) Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk. Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth. Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights. Reread great books. Say thank you

01-28-21 02:37 PM - Post#907277    

Awesome. Yeah, I didn’t mention that it wouldn’t be the only focus and I wasn’t yet thinking about accomplishing a test. Just something to add in that seems to tick some boxes and that area un to do. Doing them a few times a week makes sense.

Say 3 sets of 5-10 each arm depending on how heavy?

01-28-21 03:09 PM - Post#907278    

I used to live near a park with a steep hill. I got to it via a woodland path that started at the back of my house. I used to load a KB into a rucksack then walk to the park, maybe half a mile. Do snatches at the top of the hill. Leave the KB and walk down. Do a few pushups and then sprint up the hill. The hardest part was the walk home afterwards. It was too tough for me to do often, but it was fun. If I remember correctly I mixed it in with a few days of sets of 10 each hand.

Training Blog.

01-28-21 06:05 PM - Post#907281    

• Glenn Walters Said:

Depends upon what else you're doing. If you just want to add some conditioning to as strength program or want some General Physical Preparedness for a sport what you suggest should be fine. What are your goals? How much time do want to commit to your training? How old are you? Beware of chasing too many rabbits.

I'm planning to compete in the Tactical Strength Challenge in the Masters Division (50+) in May and I'm a decade or two older than most of my competitors. The deadlift is my strongest event and it's a tossup between the pullup and kettlebell snatch so I want to maintain my deadlift and improve my pullup and snatch so I'm doing Grease the Groove pullups, a progressive A+A snatch program and easy strength deadlifts, presses and squats plus some correctives and a little easy cardio. I'm training 5 or 6 days most weeks.

"Coyote is always waiting, and Coyote is always hungry."

Programming KB snatch
01-28-21 07:30 PM - Post#907283    

I’m actually fairly scattered about goals. Prior to covid I was focused on rowing masters level crew (I’m 59) and being fit for that. These days it’s mostly about staying sane and trying to find the balance between the same old things.

Last couple of months I’ve:

Erg easy 40K per week (or sub in easy running) in the morning. Not really motivated toward lots of volume these days. Nor hard interval training.

500 Swings per week done in various ways with various weights. Average bell weight 28-32 kg. Sometimes use 36kg and a 44 kg.

Added, say, 250 snatches last couple of weeks - 20kg last few weeks. Working up to the 24.

20 front squats in two sessions per week

20 incline bench in two sessions per week

10 TB Deadlifts in two sessions per week

So sort of a weird easy strength set up.

I guess the question I am asking is that most of the time when I see programs with kettlebells in them they are about a test or about being an end to themselves or to burn fat like a furnace or whatever. I like swinging and snatching them, and they are making me feel good in certain areas, but I am not really interested in them being the source or bulk of my endurance training. I’d like to add them in to get benefits though, as there is only so much energy in the tank! Maybe I’m not really clear on what they are suppose to be used for!





Edited by Glenn Walters on 01-28-21 07:31 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

01-28-21 10:35 PM - Post#907292    

Tests like 100 snatches in 5 minutes are just a thing you need to pass to get a certificate.

For me the most benefit from snatches has come from doing the A+A method that Steve mentioned - but for me it isn't for the supposed cardio benefits - that's what easy running or in your case erging is for.

But doing 5 reps per minute, alternating hands each minute, is a simple way to build strength and power in the snatch with a relatively heavy kb, without the hand issues, or poor form from rushing etc.

20 minutes = 100 snatches and with a decent weight that is a good workout that you will feel fresh after.

Occasionally add minutes or cycle through a medium/easy/hard week of 25/20/30 mins.

Work in a heavier bell by starting with 3 reps per minute - or just adding some sets with a heavier bell into a session.


IMO you could do just the erging and the snatches - without the swings etc

Log

01-29-21 08:28 AM - Post#907296    

• Glenn Walters Said:

This is a good reason to do them.

Snatches are (at least for me) a move with a lot of ROI in terms of time invested, and they are a lot less boring than swings, IMO.

Like Luke said, the A + A stuff is nice. When you move up a bell, just drop the reps down to 3 per minute and work up slowly.

That said, if you are looking for something more concrete to aim at that isn't either 100 in 5 minutes (RKC/SFG) or 200 in 10 minutes (Secret Service), some of the snatch fans on that other forum have suggested that the snatch equivalent of the "simple" standard from S&S would be 100 in 10 minutes with a 28k, which seems reasonable and doable.

01-29-21 09:20 AM - Post#907298    

So, I have banned the following from my Podcast questions:

TGUs
Lunges
Burpees
Pavel's workouts

I am going to be bringing in my 1,000 consultants to my private island near Fiji and discuss the snatch.

Daniel John Just handing down what I was handed down... Make a Difference. Live. Love. Laugh. Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude) Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk. Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth. Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights. Reread great books. Say thank you

01-29-21 11:31 AM - Post#907302    

• Dan John Said:

Can I come? I'm not qualified to consult on anything, so my job will be to get out and put away the kettlebells every day.

01-30-21 02:30 PM - Post#907337    

Absolutely. Check your inbox for the pilot's name for you private plane. Be sure to double check the amount of champagne we allow as it is far too much for ten people. Think Wolf of Wall Street.

Daniel John Just handing down what I was handed down... Make a Difference. Live. Love. Laugh. Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude) Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk. Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth. Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights. Reread great books. Say thank you

Programming KB snatch
02-01-21 10:03 AM - Post#907375    

Unfortunately with the 13 inches of snow we're getting her, my flight would be cancelled.

The snatch is my favorite exercise. It's the best bang for your buck for the cardio/endurance/muscle piece. However the drawback is the hands and hot spots. Always one bad rep from a blood blister and always on the way down. Also easy for the bell to go flying when fatigue sets in. I've dropped bells when my hands got sweaty. Not good.

I'm not an A + A guy or like heavy snatching anymore. 200 snatches in sets 5L 5 R and. try to reduce the number off of that. I hate the density 5 or 10 minute tests. Too much room for sloppy reps.

VWC is the stupidest workout ever created.

Edited by BChase on 02-01-21 10:41 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

02-03-21 04:57 AM - Post#907432    

In summary, great exercise but difficult to do a lot of reps without messing yourself up.

When training for the TSC, I tried to do one arm kb swings 1-2 bells up from my snatch bell whenever I couldn’t snatch because I’d just ripped off all of my calluses or whatever. I never learnt the secret unicorn technique that stops you ripping up your hands but try 80 grit sandpaper to stop your calluses getting too thick.

And I know that a snatch is just a swing that ends overhead (I did that course too) but is it really? If you were just training for snatch performance would you move a little further towards a squat on the hinge to squat continuum? Is a clean in weightlifting a hinge?

Programming KB snatch
02-03-21 05:09 AM - Post#907433    

When it comes to calluses a cheap gymnastics leather hand guard will fix pretty much all of your issues...

[image]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/Tg2_uy5leltE6gc suR3bvKCFjQDHHKWhZ6v_iyqg SinmJXOpj6OBpdoeGB0ebmZn7 cRQWa3UfpeTMC1kc8-IWDsACc 37PyeO0Q6sotiYlfwu[/image ]







Edited by 12bernd on 02-03-21 05:18 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

02-03-21 07:54 AM - Post#907437    

• AusDaz Said:

[checks outside for angry mob with pitchforks]

02-03-21 08:45 AM - Post#907440    

"
And I know that a snatch is just a swing that ends overhead (I did that course too) but is it really?"

That's a good point. I think that cliche (it's used a LOT) gets people doing that loopy snatch that ends up crashing.

I have seen film of myself doing the 100 reps snatch test. You are right, the swing part is different because I am already "bow and arrowing" back up well before the bell does that deep dive past the butt. It's not a SLJ hinge it's a vertical jump test hinge.

I will mull this over. I have a cert coming up and I often take the good insights from this forum, rethink it and make the cert a bit better...so thank you.

Daniel John Just handing down what I was handed down... Make a Difference. Live. Love. Laugh. Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude) Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk. Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth. Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights. Reread great books. Say thank you

02-03-21 10:59 AM - Post#907450    

I think vertical jump is the perfect description of the snatch hinge, particularly with heavier bells.

"Coyote is always waiting, and Coyote is always hungry."

02-03-21 11:11 AM - Post#907451    

I found it better to not think of the snatch as a swing, but almost as ripping the bell from between my legs to overhead. But not way back behind my legs like a swing - but as if I was going to put it down just behind my feet - if that makes sense.

It worked for me and I think it cleaned up the issues.

Also another nod to the lower reps, higher sets (yes A+A etc), is you get to work on these things without having to worry about the hands. Each set stops before you get sloppy, your hands get more rest, and you have time to wipe the handle clean every set if you need to.

Log

02-03-21 12:31 PM - Post#907455    

This has been helpful. I’ve been intuitively bringing a little more knee bend into it to get things loaded up and then moving upward (jump ish) vertically from the hinge. Seems to make it more powerful and quick

02-03-21 12:55 PM - Post#907457    

• aussieluke Said:

This is pretty much what I do/how I think about it. I think I get why the "snatch is a swing that ends up overhead" thing came about, but at the same time I don't think it's true. If the KB is projected too far forward (as it would be in the swing), as Dan mentioned, it's gonna be loopy and bang into your forearm at the top, especially if you're using a remotely heavy bell.

02-04-21 08:32 AM - Post#907491    

Luke nailed it. The one hand swing is a take it or leave it for me. I see the snatch as a aggressive explosion moving the bell overhead.

The problem that never gets addressed with heavy snatch is the drop. Trying to catch the bell as it's descending into the fingers from the palm and then correctly timing it into the hinge.

02-04-21 08:52 AM - Post#907492    

• BChase Said:

Yes. For me, two-hand swing and snatch are great. Even though I sometimes do them, and have done them in the past, the one-hand swing is definitely not a favorite.

02-06-21 09:42 AM - Post#907525    

Yikes. Did 5 reps on the 45” for 20’. Just the 20kg. And it was a sweaty workout! Sort of a bit like rowing, it must take a while practicing till the load is fully in the legs and not upper body.

02-06-21 02:23 PM - Post#907534    

• Glenn Walters Said:

Yes. To me a good snappy kettlebell snatch feels like 60% hips/legs, 30% upper body pull and 10% upper body push.

"Coyote is always waiting, and Coyote is always hungry."

02-06-21 05:18 PM - Post#907539    

Basically just like rowing in proportions. I’m noticing that as the day goes on my legs are telling me they were more involved than I thought at the time.

Fun. Something to work on

03-02-21 05:50 PM - Post#908405    

Making progress on the move - fun stuff.

Has anyone any thoughts on a good complimentary exercise or two to do in a snatch session as a circuit or DMPM type of thing? Rows? Push ups?

03-02-21 07:57 PM - Post#908410    

Push-ups or dips make great partners for snatches

03-03-21 02:29 PM - Post#908446    

• Glenn Walters Said:

I spontaneously did a Snatches/Batwings/Dips circuit this morning for 20 minutes and it was awesome. Highly recommend if, like me, you make your living staring at a monitor and pushing a mouse around. I'll be back for more.

03-03-21 02:41 PM - Post#908447    

I bought a 24K a couple years ago but never got motivated to do high reps with it, which I thought you had to do to get benefits from it. This thread is motivating me to start at it again with some lower reps. Would you do these before/after a lifting session or on days off? Or both?

Programming KB snatch
03-03-21 06:39 PM - Post#908454    

Awesome. I’m thinking pushups and band pulls.

As a crazy admission, I did 84 sets of 5 reps on Saturday with the 20k, which was on the game minute of the Ireland / Italy six nations game. I took half time off. It was a low aerobic workout, but with a benefit of ingraining the move

Edited by Glenn Walters on 03-03-21 06:40 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

Re: Programming KB snatch
03-04-21 01:38 AM - Post#908463    

• Glenn Walters Said:

Plus, beats actually watching Ireland and Italy playing rugby ????