10-20-20 03:13 PM - Post#903755    

Because the arms thread was entertaining and useful, how about getting bigger and (especially) broader shoulders.

I actually have thick wide shoulders, but I also got a bad case of giant buffalo head, so I wouldn't mind some more meat on them.

10-20-20 03:39 PM - Post#903757    

Jealous.

I have narrow shoulders and a pencil neck.

Will be watching this thread with interest. (Though I suspect the answer is achieving a 225lb strict press for reps.)

10-20-20 04:21 PM - Post#903762    

Up to a point, doing the "skin the cat" move on a pullup bar will help broaden the shoulders. But, it's more suited to a teenager than an adult.

Absent that, the Bradford press, alternate dumbbell press and various moves with chest cables will work if you do.

Mark it Zero.

10-20-20 04:30 PM - Post#903763    

Same as my answer for most things lifting-related -- 2-kb long cycle clean and jerk. Perform them in a "hard" style -- not like GS with the rhythm and resting the bells on your chest/ribs.

Try to work up to 50/20 (10 sets of 5 in 20 minutes) with KBs adding up to 3/4 of your bodyweight.

10 sets of 10 with the same bells in the same time, or 10 sets of 5 with bells adding up to BW if you're real serious (or under 30).

10-20-20 04:48 PM - Post#903767    

Divebombers over time build powerful shoulders (among other bodyparts).

"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums. It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable. Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow. Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't." Dan Martin

10-20-20 05:22 PM - Post#903774    

Also, forgot to note that wide-grip pulls are your friends here -- DL, snatch, snatch pull, etc.

10-20-20 06:38 PM - Post#903775    

The basics for me. Seated overhead press (barbell, dumbbell, machine), dumbbell laterals, and front raises (usually with dumbbells, but a 45 pound plate is great too). I know standing Olympic press is all the rage, but seated with the back supported is better for me in every way.

"The trouble about always trying to preserve the health of the body is that it is so difficult to do without destroying the health of the mind."~GK Chesterton

Boulder Shoulders
10-20-20 11:54 PM - Post#903781    

When I learned to DL heavy (by my standards), my shoulders started looking bigger.

Probably zero extra mass on my delts, but I stood differently, and posture affects how you look,

Edited by Dan Christensen on 10-20-20 11:54 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

10-21-20 12:41 AM - Post#903783    

• Browser Said:

If, for whatever reason standing press is not an option, I would do steep incline bench presses. A Bill Starr’s favorite.

"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums. It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable. Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow. Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't." Dan Martin

10-21-20 09:42 AM - Post#903791    

• iPood Said:

That's exactly what I do, set the back of the bench one pin shy of vertical. I can do standing presses, but I need a lot of layback and I always end up using my legs when things get heavy. Seated presses get rid of both of those problems and lets me work the shoulders instead of everything else.

"The trouble about always trying to preserve the health of the body is that it is so difficult to do without destroying the health of the mind."~GK Chesterton

10-21-20 09:56 AM - Post#903792    

• Browser Said:

Until I worked on my thoracic mobility, any sort of standing press, especially with a barbell, caused me a lot of discomfort. That didn't mean I wasn't doing them. I did a lot of steep inclines and dips and avoided them when I could. However, one standing version I did do without any discomfort was the one dumbbell press. I would wear a belt, clean the dumbbell with two hands and then hold on to the squat rack with my free hand and press away.

Mark it Zero.

Boulder Shoulders
10-21-20 09:56 AM - Post#903793    

Since nearly all of us have already developed decent anterior delts with presses, I'm going to recommend going for balance. That is, choose movements that will result in not only a wider look, but healthier shoulders at well by highlighting the medial and posterior delts.

For the medials, side laterals work better than almost anything. I get best results from high volume (4 x 15-20), but that may be because they are generally a finisher when my shoulders are usually pre-exhausted. Upright rows are pretty good, too, but they cause shoulder impingement.

You guys already know about high volume face pulls and pull aparts as correctives, so I'm going to recommend rear laterals, bent over or lying face down on a low incline bench. If you do the bent over variation with one arm, bracing yourself on a bench or dumbbell rack with the other, and swing the weight at the start of your reps lawnmower style, it's a good mass builder. (Hits the traps nicely, too.)

Be strong. Be in shape. Be a man among men, regardless of your age or circumstances.

Edited by AAnnunz on 10-23-20 09:19 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

10-21-20 10:20 AM - Post#903795    

Not shilling KBs, but that one arm press is pretty good.

Daniel John Just handing down what I was handed down... Make a Difference. Live. Love. Laugh. Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude) Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk. Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth. Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights. Reread great books. Say thank you

Boulder Shoulders
10-21-20 10:38 AM - Post#903796    

Here's an entertaining read and a fine exercise:

http://ditillo2.blogspot.com/2012/02/hise-deltoid- exercise-joseph-curtis.html

Maybe if you wanna "specialize" on this goal for a while you could do the One Arm KB Press on a second day, and on a third day each week try out the Two Dumbbell Partial Press that got mileage when Larry Scott described it a few times in some mags and little course booklets.

Here . . .

"First, to overcome the tendency to overwork frontal deltoids , we are going to employ a few tricks you may not have heard of. I know you will not be as strong, but remember, it's the side and rear deltoids we want to take care of. The frontal deltoid will take care of itself.

Stand about 4 inches away from the rack and lean off-balance into the rack. Now press the dumbbells so that you are trying to touch your elbows together somewhere up and behind your head. You, of course, can't actually accomplish this feat but it gives you a plane of movement I want you to concentrate on. The dumbbells are not pressed all the way up nor do they get lowered all the way down. A movement employing the middle 3/5 of the motion is correct.

You see, the top 1/5 is purely triceps and begins to cause one to lean back and thus we get lower back injuries. The bottom 1/5 is almost all traps and the deltoids actually rest. Yes, it's the middle 3/5 we are after to really stress the delts.

Sets and Reps: After having thoroughly warmed up, start with the heaviest set of dumbbells which you can use for 6 good reps. The first set should be tough. Continue on down the rack for about 6 sets. Try to minimize your rest whenever possible."

A half year or so of those three, maybe one each delt day, three delt days a week. Don't forget to keep including the regular standing barbell press in your workouts, at least once a week, always aiming to increase your poundage in anything from singles up to 5's. Have fun with that goal along the way, exploding the bar up and trying to add something whenever possible.

That all might make a difference your friends, loved ones and pets will notice, if you put some weight on and get lucky along the way.

Life's too short to worry about longevity.

Edited by Neander on 10-21-20 11:02 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

10-21-20 03:40 PM - Post#903811    

That Scott Press exercise feels insane when you get it right.

10-21-20 05:10 PM - Post#903813    

I think I have to agree with Dan John here and say +1 to 1 arm kettlebell presses. I have run the famed "Rite of Passage" several times and although it is touted as a pure strength program I have always ended up with a much thicker shoulder girdle and come out leaner at the same time....even when I have used less than the recommended 5 to 8 repetition kettlebell!

Re: Boulder Shoulders
10-21-20 06:15 PM - Post#903815    

• Neander Said:

With all respect to the late Mr. Scott, Scott's description is incomprehensible. What kind of rack? Which way do you lean? How "off-balance" should you be? How do you try to touch your elbows together "somewhere" behind your head? This rivals his incomprehensible description of the Lou Degni lower lat scapular rotations. Scott made Gironda look like a model of clarity.

Why are you squatting in the curl rack?

10-21-20 06:30 PM - Post#903816    

I mean, I don't find that incomprehensible. Lean into the rack - dumbbell rack - into denotes leaning forward. Trying to touch your elbows behind your head while pressing....there's literally only one way to do that unless you've got very odd joints.

Of course, it's also on Youtube, if you want to see it done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVZpDwE6rFc&a mp;disable_polymer=true

Boulder Shoulders
10-21-20 07:58 PM - Post#903822    

• Justin Jordan Said:

I need to dwell in the middle 3/5 more.

Mark it Zero.

10-21-20 08:23 PM - Post#903825    

Pullups and bent rows, 2-3:1 to pressing movements. Unless you're really training pulls well, chances are high for overtrained front delts. Not saying the rear portions are not being worked in that video, compared to rows or chins though? There's a lot more back+rear delt muscle than there is chest+front delt muscle.

Diablo Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth- MT

10-21-20 09:02 PM - Post#903827    

• Justin Jordan Said:

If you hadn't seen the video, his description would give you virtually no idea. Even the guy he was instructing was not leaning into the rack. And as for elbows touching in the back, well, I continue to have no idea why he thinks that movement is best cued that way. Whatever. I guess some people are better Larry Scott whisperers than others. For me, his descriptions of his exercises make virtually no sense. I could not grasp the Degni scapular rotations (or whatever they are called) until I saw a video by one of Gironda's acolytes.

Why are you squatting in the curl rack?

10-21-20 09:46 PM - Post#903829    

For what it's worth, I did them twenty five years ago from a description in a Muscle and Fitness article, rather a lot before Youtube.

I WILL say that one thing that's not clear in any description of these I've ever read is that they are, essentially, a weird kind of lateral raise, in that you're not actually moving at the elbow joint if you're doing them right.

The elbows behind the head thing makes sense as a cue to me, because it's pretty literal, but then cues either work or they don't. Dan has some cues that make no sense to me.

10-22-20 10:26 AM - Post#903839    

• Justin Jordan Said:

I also have done them on and off over the years, but I relied on that same video. The fixed angles of the elbows seem to be one of the keys. The movement is coming entirely out of the shoulders, with the elbows in a fixed position and leading both back and up in a small range of motion.

Trying to minimize movement around the elbows is also a great way to keep the tension on working muscles in other movements, like flies and even some back movements. Dumbbell one arm rows in a sweeping motion with relatively fixed elbows really focus the movement on the lats.

What you say about cues is really true and applies to so many things. The best math teacher I ever had taught "Calculus for Poets" (poets=math dummies), and what amazed me was his ability to present every principle multiple different ways. He would present an explanation, look around the room to see how many lights went on in his students' eyes, present another explanation, look around the room again, and so on until the lights were generally all on. Only then would he move on to the next principle. Some cues work for some people, but not others. And many teachers can only reach some students.

Why are you squatting in the curl rack?

10-22-20 11:44 AM - Post#903845    

Exactly!

Yeah, I mean, to use examples that are here, there's some stuff that Dan says that just don't work with my brain.

It's not a cue but 'rest some' drives me up a wall. Give me a time! Which I will then proceed to ignore anyway.

10-22-20 11:51 AM - Post#903846    

So aside from exercises, what are we thinking for days/set/reps?

Boulder Shoulders
10-22-20 01:14 PM - Post#903849    

• Quoting:

I'm still trying to figure out the difference between Boulder Shoulders and Bolder Shoulders.

Life's too short to worry about longevity.

Edited by Neander on 10-22-20 01:15 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

10-22-20 01:15 PM - Post#903850    

What Larry illustrated was pure, no BS bodybuilding.

Mark it Zero.

Boulder Shoulders
10-22-20 01:38 PM - Post#903851    

• Justin Jordan Said:

Lotsa things will work, but just to start things off:
1. Military Press 5x5, Seated Arnold Press 5 x 8-10, Plate Raise 1 x 50 (rest/pause), or KB press (whatever Dan recommends)
2. Side Lateral 4 x 15-20
3. Rear Lateral 4 x 10-15, Face Pull/Pullapart 4x25, or TRX I/T/W 2 x 10-15 each

Doesn't matter if you do them together on a separate shoulder day or split them up over two or three training days.

Be strong. Be in shape. Be a man among men, regardless of your age or circumstances.

Edited by AAnnunz on 10-22-20 01:47 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

Re: Boulder Shoulders
10-22-20 02:13 PM - Post#903852    

• AAnnunz Said:

What Al said. Lateral and rear delts seem to do better with higher reps and multiple sets. Some say that isometric holds also work wonders. One exercise that has helped my rear delts is standing rows with cables or bands or rings attached to cables or bands. The cables or bands are anchored at about chest height, and I pull back as far as the shoulders will allow (that is going into shoulder hyperextension). Because of their role in external rotation it helps to go from a pronated or neutral grip at the start of the rep to a slightly supinated grip (externally rotating the shoulder) at the end (contracted position). Again, relatively light weights, high reps, and a focused isometric squeeze at the end seems to work (although that may be magical thinking). Yes, it's a row, so it works the entire upper back (especially if you keep the elbows slightly or more than slightly flared), but the rear delts ARE part of the upper back.

Why are you squatting in the curl rack?

Boulder Shoulders
10-22-20 05:04 PM - Post#903857    

Isometric holds! That reminded me that I forgot to mention holding crucifixes in different positions and at different body angles for weight and time. Maybe that's too old for some people to know about, though.

The days/sets/reps/intensity levels . . .
my honest advice is that you're on your own there.
No, really.

Life's too short to worry about longevity.

Edited by Neander on 10-22-20 05:07 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

Boulder Shoulders
10-22-20 06:41 PM - Post#903863    

I'd exhaust all forms of pressing and pulls before getting too carried away with lateral/leverage moves.

Mark it Zero.

10-22-20 09:51 PM - Post#903867    

• DanMartin Said:

My man Dan hits the nail on the head, again. I used to do a tri-set of bent over laterals, lateral raise and the Bradford Press. 2 tri-sets usually "heated up" the deltoids very well. Three sets would do just about all that could be done. If pressed for time, I'd drop the laterals since the Bradford Press involves all aspects of the deltoid at some point in the movement. So, just bent over laterals (because they are under developed in most) and the Bradford Press was also a very effective combination.

"I'm in good shape for the shape I'm in." "Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me." John 14:6

10-22-20 10:48 PM - Post#903868    

One exercise that really made my shoulders burn where farmers walks.
The other being the Nautilus double shoulder, in particular the negative part of the press, I push with both hands and lower with one and repeat but it's a machine and not too popular.

Nice legs-shame about the face

10-22-20 11:17 PM - Post#903869    

• Andy Mitchell Said:

The Nautilus Double Shoulder was such an awesome machine. When my gym opened, they stocked it with lots of used equipment, most of it way passed its prime and crappy from the get-go. But they had a Nautilus Double Shoulder. I couldn't believe they found one. That was in the last 90s or early 2000s. Anyway, it was a beast. Then one day, it was gone. Idiots. Some of those old Nautilus machines were genius. Not just the pullover, but the Behind Neck Torso Arm (the best adduction machine for lats ever invented), the Leg Extension/Leg Press machine, the dip/chin up station. They also had a rear delt machine that you would have to wiggle into so you could move the pads backwards with your elbows. The negative on that was awesome. It was sheer torture (in a good way).

I never got anything but pain in my shoulders from most pressing, except when I pre-exhausted with laterals. And even then, I suspect it was the laterals, not the pressing, that did the job. Sorry, Dan.

Why are you squatting in the curl rack?

10-23-20 12:39 AM - Post#903872    

Watching a couple of those Larry Scott shoulder training videos made me notice how similar John Meadows is in his bodybuilding exercise technique thinking. How cool is that! Each of them takes what they can from the past and then bumps it up and ahead a little.

Life's too short to worry about longevity.

10-23-20 01:30 AM - Post#903874    

• Adam S Said:

Lol.
I at least enjoyed your post

Nice legs-shame about the face

10-23-20 04:35 AM - Post#903881    

I know it's not traditional lifting or bodybuilding but if you want nice rounded and broad shoulders, throwing good quality jabs and crosses (eg. 30 secs lead right, 30 secs lead left) for time with light DB's leaves no part of your delts (or much of the rest of the torso) untouched. Fantastic active rest or superset with presses.

'You can throw in the towel or use it to wipe the sweat off your face and keep going' 'Well ain't this place a geographical oddity? Two weeks from everywhere.' Ulysses Everett McGill

10-23-20 09:04 AM - Post#903888    

• Volumiza Said:

As long as you're not actually trying to get better at boxing by doing that. :-)

And just to touch briefly on the concerns about anterior delt dominance through pressing-based exercise, if you clean each one, you can mitigate that a good bit...

10-23-20 10:10 AM - Post#903891    

• BrianBinVA Said:

Dunno if it ever made me a better boxer but Taff, my old boxing trainer, used to get us doing these a lot. He reckoned if we could punch quickly and accurately for 3 minutes while holding 2kg DBs we’d be quicker and more accurate without them. Either way, I had an awesome set of well formed delts :)

'You can throw in the towel or use it to wipe the sweat off your face and keep going' 'Well ain't this place a geographical oddity? Two weeks from everywhere.' Ulysses Everett McGill

10-23-20 10:14 AM - Post#903893    

• Volumiza Said:

Wow, 2kg? I've always heard/read/thought/found that something more like a roll of quarters was an appropriate weight for actual boxing. But I bet just holding those 2kgs up would give you a nice pump in the delts!

10-23-20 10:24 AM - Post#903895    

• BrianBinVA Said:

Haha, a roll of quarters would have been a holiday :)

We used to have these D shaped 2kg DB’s and he’d line us all up in front of the mirrors and have us do 3 mins of constant jab / cross, 30 secs leading with each hand and switch. As soon as your hands started dropping on the return he’d have you down doing burpees for whatever time was left :) sounds awful but they were great days, I still miss that place.

'You can throw in the towel or use it to wipe the sweat off your face and keep going' 'Well ain't this place a geographical oddity? Two weeks from everywhere.' Ulysses Everett McGill

10-23-20 10:58 AM - Post#903897    

• Volumiza Said:

Boxing training (as opposed to actual fights) is fun as heck. I miss it greatly too...

10-23-20 11:56 AM - Post#903899    

• BrianBinVA Said:

I missed the fights and sparring for a while and I still get the urge for a good tear up every now and then but I think I’d regret it 30 seconds after the bell, I’m too old and boring now. By the time I stopped, the younger guys were starting to give me the run around.

Still, I had great shoulders though :)

'You can throw in the towel or use it to wipe the sweat off your face and keep going' 'Well ain't this place a geographical oddity? Two weeks from everywhere.' Ulysses Everett McGill

10-23-20 02:37 PM - Post#903916    

Throwing in the one arm push press.

Richard

10-24-20 05:19 PM - Post#903955    

Ricky01, I also like the one arm push press, especially with a slow eccentric!

10-24-20 08:22 PM - Post#903960    

The 2020 Crossfit Games were on CBS today. No surprise that the guys had very wide shoulders, but so did the women. If anyone has any idea what they're doing right, please pass it on. I've never seen female bodybuilders, powerlifters, or Olympic lifters with shoulders like what these Crossfit women sported.

Boulder Shoulders
10-25-20 04:49 PM - Post#903970    

Drug testing at the games is less than optimal.

Owen Brown, a Biomedical Scientist from Pontyclun, Wales.

Edited by Pontyclun on 10-25-20 04:50 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

10-26-20 07:00 AM - Post#903978    

• Ricky01 Said:

This is also what I do for shoulders. One arm push press for 2x(1-2-3) or 2x(2-3-5). Then 1 set of 10 One arm strict press.

The strict press feels really light after the heavy push press, but your shoulders are tired from the push press. It feels really weird, but in a good way.

10-26-20 07:56 AM - Post#903982    

• Jort Kramer Said:

Or double strict presses until mechanical failure. Then double push presses until mechanical failure. Finally, double jerks until mechanical failure.

"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums. It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable. Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow. Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't." Dan Martin