04-16-20 12:55 AM - Post#896923    

We've got the best single kettlebell program thread going, so we need a thread for double bells programs.

I don't have wealth of experience, but I'm enjoying "Kettlebell Strong" right now. It starts of low volume and high intensity, but as you get stronger becomes more volume and less intensity (since the bells stay the same.)

I've also done "Dry Fighting Weight" and "Shock and Awe" (I was glad when it was over. I might revisit it when I can go up a bell size, but not before.)

Let's hear your favorite double bell program.

Best/Favorite Double Kettlebell Program
04-16-20 09:17 AM - Post#896938    

Thanks for starting this one, Jim -- looking forward to the responses.

Not really a "program" per se, but most of my training is based around double KBs using two main movements (long cycle clean and jerk and front squat) and Bryce Lane's 50/20 idea. For anyone not familiar with it, the goal is to get 50 reps in 20 minutes. Bryce's original article suggested if you can't get 30 the weight is too heavy, and if you get more than 100 it is too light. Since KBs are a fixed weight, I usually just start with 30 (10 sets of 3) and try to keep going till I get 100 (10 sets of 10) in the 20 minutes. I'm in my 40s now so I progress VERY slowly (on purpose) -- I just try to add one rep per week, so a pair of KBs can keep you going for a good long time.

Edit to note that I just use the total rep guide for the C&J, and only do half as many with the squat with double KBs. I do the same number of total reps of squats, but the second half are done with a single KB for various reasons, not the least of which is that I like to walk a lot and end up with chafing issues if I do too many squats. :-)

(So for example, this week is 8 sets of 4 and 2 sets of 5 in the C&J -- 42 reps. That means I try for about half that many in the double KB squat -- like 4, 4, 4, 5, 5, or something -- then do the other 20 or so reps as single-side front squats to get to the same 42 reps. Goblets done in warmups don't count for this.)



Edited by BrianBinVA on 04-16-20 10:04 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

04-16-20 11:06 AM - Post#896952    

Dry Fighting weight is the best double kettlebll program i have come across.

Everything grows, all the fat disappears and joints feel better.

Re: Best/Favorite Double Kettlebell Program
04-16-20 11:26 AM - Post#896954    

• BrianBinVA Said:

I like this very much.

"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums. It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable. Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow. Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't." Dan Martin

04-16-20 11:54 AM - Post#896957    

You never see it mentioned often but the double kb thruster for something like 5x5 or more with a pair of 24s is kinda fun.

Of course the DJ armour building complex is also an incredible workout. I always liked working up to 15 rounds in 15 minutes.

You could probably do worse than alternating those two.

Log

04-16-20 12:02 PM - Post#896959    

• aussieluke Said:

Just sayin'...

https://www.davedraper.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?fid/73/tid/29456/

"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums. It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable. Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow. Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't." Dan Martin

04-16-20 12:14 PM - Post#896962    

• iPood Said:

Nice!

I believe it was Jack Reape on IGX who once suggested 5x5 thrusters for hypertrophy. I tried it and liked it but damn they’re hard. There is something I find with thrusters - they’re hard and they suck, but you can somehow keep doing more.

Log

04-16-20 02:20 PM - Post#896968    

Thanks, iPood

Dry fighting weight is one I have considered many times but the bell weight never seems right. Or my strength level never seems right for the available bells.

Another one I liked is the original Prometheus protocol from Pat Flynn -- 10 sets of 5 in each of the C&P and FS. I have done it a few times (4 weeks each) with 24s. Now, don't get me wrong, the workouts SUCK (as in, are hard), but you'll build some muscle. The way I did it was similar to dry fighting weight in that I would alternate C&P and FS, but it was all 5s.

04-17-20 12:46 PM - Post#897009    

It was Escalated Density Training
My back won't hold up to it anymore.

I like Geoff Neupert's Jerk Complexes from More Kettlebell Muscle WOrkouts 19 and 20, Herky Jerky and Jerk work

Best/Favorite Double Kettlebell Program
04-17-20 02:53 PM - Post#897015    

• BrianBinVA Said:

I just checked my notes. It's been a few years, but I did it 24s. Not sure what my rep max was with 24s, but I went from a shaky one rep with the 28 to 4 reps in 4 weeks. I was able to press the 32kg, which I couldn't do before. Not bad.

I’m sure there was a conditioning effect with all the front squat. I can remember sweating like crazy.

I do remember being glad it was over. It's definitely a bus bench program that you can't run for perpetuity.

I might do it with again now that I can do it with 28s.

Edited by Jim James on 04-17-20 05:16 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

04-17-20 11:29 PM - Post#897021    

I started Geoff Neupert's STRONG! some weeks ago and I really like it.

It's a typical strength program. It begins with very low volume but high intensity and medium frequency (3x per week).

I do it with 2x32kg and right now it is still pretty easy thanks to this low volume. I am looking forward to how it will feel when there will be more reps.

It's perfect for someone with time shortage (about 20-30min per session) and it allows me to do lots of OS resets, mobility work and some longer easy runs. Will give you a feedbacks ins some weeks.

04-18-20 06:28 AM - Post#897028    

Mike Mahler used to have some great workouts with doubles on his website.
EDT and Cluster Training stood out.

The days of slinging 2 x 32 over my head have passed.

I love doing complexes/chains with doubles as well.

Re: Best/Favorite Double Kettlebell Program
04-18-20 11:16 AM - Post#897047    

• BrianBinVA Said:

I came on to mention 50/20 but I was beaten to it.

Also DJ armour building.

Pat Flynn Prometheus.

I really like the sound of Geoff Neuports stuff to.

Re: Best/Favorite Double Kettlebell Program
04-18-20 11:47 AM - Post#897052    

To me, and I'm beyond biased, all double kettlebell workouts pale compared to the "Grad Workout."

Try this:

One Kettlebell Two-Hand Swing 5 x 15

Two Kettlebell Clean x 2
Two Kettlebell Press x 1
Two Kettlebell Front Squat x 3

Farmer's Walk

Twice or thrice a week. Lather, rinse, repeat. The swings are a great way to warm-up. If you need more work, work harder.

Mark it Zero.

04-19-20 03:59 PM - Post#897081    

I like Strength Aerobics (clean, press, front squat) with double bells.

The Armour Building Complex is great and the breaks between sets end up being long enough to do some mobility work.

Thanks to everyone who makes this forum so useful and such a good place to be.

04-19-20 04:33 PM - Post#897082    

I wanted to make the Armour Building Complex a bit more 'aerobic' so I decided to do 3-5 push-ups after the squats, to shorten the 40 seconds of rest.

This lasted for about the first 5 reps.

04-19-20 05:17 PM - Post#897083    

When I started the Highland Games over a decade ago DJ gave me the following program.

Double Kettlebell Clean & Press
- 2, 3, 5
- 2, 3, 5
- 2, 3

Double Kettlebell Swing & Farmer Walk
- 10 Swings & 60ft walk for 5 rounds

Nice program, maybe I should do it again.

"Coyote is always waiting, and Coyote is always hungry."

Best/Favorite Double Kettlebell Program
04-20-20 12:00 PM - Post#897097    

I've always been partial to "Left of Passage".

Monday-Medium Day
1. First combo: 3x(1,2,3)
2. Second combo: 8 repeats (80 double kettlebell swings, 320 meters of farmer's walks)

Wednesday-Light Day
1. First combo: 2x(1,2,3)
2. Second combo: 4 repeats (40 double kettlebell swings, 160 meters of farmer's walks)

Friday-Heavy Day
1. First combo: 4x(1,2,3)
2. Second combo: 10 repeats (100 double kettlebell swings, 400 meters of farmer's walks)

"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums. It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable. Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow. Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't." Dan Martin

Edited by iPood on 04-20-20 12:01 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

04-21-20 07:56 AM - Post#897123    

The Left of Passage was a program that somewhat intrigued me when I read about it in "Return of the Kettlebell". Right now I'm in the middle of another round of "Kettlebell Strong!" by Geoff Neupert. It is my favorite "go to" double kettlebell program and one that has always delivered for me, the same way the "Rite of Passage" delivers as a single bell program for me!

03-06-21 05:30 AM - Post#908542    

Currently doing "the giant" by Geoff Neuport.

I'm enjoying it

03-06-21 09:43 AM - Post#908558    

Since Cearball bumped this thread, I'll just mention that Jim Madden (Ageless Athlete author) just posted a (free) program he calls the "maximum minimum" on Pat Flynn's site. They just put it up yesterday, so I haven't done it, but for those who like KB grinds, it could be a nice little thing for six weeks. Its simplicity really speaks to me too.

Can be found here: https://www.chroniclesofstrength.com/the-maximal-minimalis t-double-kettlebell-progr am-w-dr-jim-madde...

03-06-21 10:46 AM - Post#908563    

Thank you Brian!
I’m just coming off of a recovery phase and was looking for a minimal type program as my work is picking up. Just did day-1 with the 24’s and forgot how fun it is to do a single exercise for a set period. Will report back in 6 weeks.
-lars

-lars

03-06-21 12:41 PM - Post#908565    

I would be interested how it would compare to dry fighting weight

03-06-21 02:02 PM - Post#908566    

I think I am right in saying that the Cook Drill is a one KB workout/movement integrity test....has anyone tried it with double KB's?

Richard

03-07-21 07:39 PM - Post#908593    

Recon Ron 2.0 by Andrew Read. My go to.

Recon Ron 2.0

"A sunset fixes everything" www.activelifeandlive.wordpress.com

03-07-21 09:31 PM - Post#908596    

• Cearball Said:

+1

Did Giant 2.0 twice as I bumped the weight up. Now on Giant 1.0 with plenty more Giants to keep me occupied the next 3 months.

Just my 2¢

03-08-21 02:25 AM - Post#908599    

Neuport..The once and future king returns. My vote goes to:The Giant.

03-08-21 03:33 AM - Post#908600    

I also did the Giant 1.0 für one cycle.

It‘s simple and effective. But I miss some movements like carries and squats and I don‘t know if it gives me everything I need for my athletic needs.

Maybe if you stay at 20mins you can add some stuff... (normally I am not a fan of adding stuff).

03-08-21 09:05 AM - Post#908603    

• Ramtrick Swayzbo Said:

I've always liked this program a lot, and have done it several times, including once for a few months straight, which is admittedly counter to its creator's original intent. Since it includes pullups as a main exercise, I didn't put it here, but you could just as easily (IMO) do double KB rows instead of the pullups and you have a KB-only program...

03-08-21 04:14 PM - Post#908622    

Over at the Strongfirst forum, Geoff has been answering questions regarding the Giant- without revealing the program, I can still stay 'true' to Giant 3.0 by adding in squats on day 3 (strength aerobics) as well as carries. I am using the final minutes of my 30 min sessions practicing low rep club bell practice. Geoff provides guidance on rep/set range for supplemental movements in the program. The staggering number of reps that folk are acheiving is inspirational!

03-09-21 11:48 AM - Post#908677    

Andrew Read has some gems, this being one of them, enjoy!

Adding Muscle with Kettlebells: How I Build Up My Grapplers
Andrew Read: RKC-TL

Due to some injuries I suffered in 2006 I started looking for ways to train that didn’t hurt me and could offer potential fixes to the damage caused. A combination of handstand push ups, burpees, and letting people kimura me led to some real problems in my AC joint and I wasn’t yet sold on needing shoulder surgery.

At this point I found the kettlebell and the rest became history. One of the things I quickly learned about kettlebells, that I saw immediate uses for with my own clients, was that they “right size” you. If you need to lose some lard then kettlebell ballistics and the near non-stop way you can train with them will help. Likewise, if you’re scrawny and need some muscle they’ll do that, too, without that exaggerated puffed up bodybuilder look.

It was at this point that I got rid of every other type of training I was using with clients and focused solely on kettlebells. Combining kettlebells with a sensible diet and only a few hours of work a week, we get amazing results at Dragon Door Australia when it comes to this lose-fat-tone-up-right-si ze training.

But sometimes there’s a client we need to actually add some muscle to. Maybe it’s a guy on the edge of his weight class and he needs to add a couple of kilos so he’s no longer the smaller guy on the mat. Maybe he or she is a rugby player and just getting brushed aside going for tackles because of too small size.

It’s always funny to me when I hear people say that certain tools are only good for certain things. I agree when to comes to BOSUs - the only thing they’re good for is as kids’ toys - but when it comes to resistance training you can get the result you need no matter the tool, whether it’s kettlebells, barbells, or dumbbells.

In the RKC we teach that for pressing you need to keep reps under five to maintain form and limit possible injury. Here’s the thing – sets of five reps are around eighty-five percent of your 1RM. The reason this is important is that once we hit this magic number we are starting to work on the neural adaptations produced from lifting instead of the metabolic changes made possible.

What are neural and metabolic adaptations? In simple terms metabolic changes are changes to the muscle cell themselves, such as change in size. Neural adaptation is a way to increase the strength of the message sent through our nervous system to the muscle fibres, essentially telling them to contract harder. So we can make our muscles bigger (metabolic changes) or we can turn up the volume of the message to the muscles (neural changes).

I’m not going to go into how to train for neural adaptations. Pavel has many books out on this and the entire RKC system revolves around it. There’s nothing I can add to make that any better. But for hypertrophy training there are two important things people miss and then scratch their heads and wonder why they aren’t growing:

1. Time under tension
2. Diet

I’ll do diet first. If you are looking to gain size, you need to eat more than usual. Simple. Figure out your caloric needs based on any of the free BMR calculators on the net and add twenty-five percent.

Time under tension is a bit trickier for many to get their heads around because they simply try to use weights that are too heavy. While it’s true the super-heavyweight lifters do lift the biggest weights, gaining muscle doesn’t actually require you to lift big weights. While a five rep effort is about eighty-five percent of our maximum, for best hypertrophy results we use loads that are more around seventy percent and allow us to get about ten reps.

One of my favourite ways to do this is with kettlebell clean and jerks. Longer sets of these add size quickly to your upper body and I’ve used the approach below to turn some BJJ competitors into absolute mat monsters. I use them like this:

Begin with three rounds of 2-4-6-8-10 reps. After you do each set of Clean and Jerks do half that number of squats. So, do 2 clean and jerks and immediately do 1 squat. After you rest, proceed and do 4 clean and jerks and then 2 squats. Continue in this fashion until you’ve done 10 clean and jerks and 5 squats.

At this point you’ll probably need a decent rest. Somewhere around three minutes rest should be about right. Then proceed to curse me out until you’ve done all three rounds of 2-4-6-8-10 plus the 1-2-3-4-5 squats.

Here’s how we work it:

• Week 1, Day 1 – start with 3 x 2-4-6-8-10
• Week 1, Day 2 – 3 x 5 Clean and Jerks with no squats.
• Week 2, Day 1 – 4 x 2-4-6-8-10
• Week 2, Day 2 – 4 x 5 Clean and Jerks with no squats.
• Week 3, Day 1 – 5 x 2-4-6-8-10
• Week 3, Day 2 – 5 x 5 Clean and Jerks with no squats.

At this point you start to work on training density – getting more work done following the same programming. You have two variables available to accomplish this: adding weight or decreasing time. Because kettlebells are made with large jumps in sizes your normal option of adding weight won’t necessarily work. Going from, say, double 24kg bells to double 28kg bells is a huge jump in terms of total load. Therefore, the option of reducing the time you train is very useful.

During all this training the muscles of the upper body are working extremely hard to move and stabilize the kettlebells through the cleans, jerks, and squats giving you massive time under tension. In addition because the jerk is such a useful power exercise you’re also increasing speed for takedown attempts and sprawling.

For the grapplers we used this program with, most added around five kilograms of bodyweight in six months. The added benefit of the incidental conditioning and grip work from the kettlebell training meant we didn’t need much special conditioning work prior to big events and spent only an hour a week for five weeks on conditioning in the final build up.

Give it a try for a few months and see. Let me know how much muscle you put on.

My Training Log

03-11-21 02:08 PM - Post#908746    

• Danny Evans Said:

Thank you for the share Danny, I'm thinking I'm going to give this a whirl for 6 weeks or so. I just finished a couple of kettlebell complex programs and this looks right up what I'm looking for. Double kettlebells and heavier weights.

03-13-21 07:14 PM - Post#908807    

• BrianBinVA Said:

I'd just come here to post this. I'm one week in. Fits my life perfectly right now with jiu-jitsu and joining a band eating any time I'm not working.

I'm doing his "strength" variation with heavier weights and lower reps. Will come back and post my results somewhere. Gotta say though, sets of 5 C&P with even a lighter weight really, really adds up.

03-13-21 07:17 PM - Post#908808    

• BChase Said:

I dunno how many times I attempted this, but the volume chewed me up... and I've competed in KB sport. :/

03-13-21 08:50 PM - Post#908810    

• mission.failed Said:

Same here -- I've attempted this a number of times, but 150 C&J and 75 squats in one session is (IMO) too much. Perhaps if you are young and in phenomenal shape, but I'd think even then, light bells would be required, and if you're gonna use light bells, I'm not sure I see the value.

03-13-21 10:44 PM - Post#908812    

• BrianBinVA Said:

Agreed. I much, much prefer your 50/20-ish approach you first posted in this thread!

Best/Favorite Double Kettlebell Program
03-26-21 02:27 PM - Post#909157    

So i just finished day 1 of the Prometheus Protocol. An hour ago i was wondering how this progresses. I'm not wondering anymore, i get it now.

Edited by snowman on 03-26-21 02:28 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

Re: Best/Favorite Double Kettlebell Program
03-26-21 03:26 PM - Post#909158    

• snowman Said:

Which version are you doing?

New?

https://www.chroniclesofstrength.com/prometheus-protocol-b uild-muscle-kettlebells/

Or old?

https://breakingmuscle.com/amp/fitness/world-s-s trongest-napkin-how-to-ad d-2lbs-of-muscle-a-week-w it...

03-26-21 05:08 PM - Post#909160    

I'm doing the new. I didnt do C+P though, I did 1 clean 5 presses. I'm warming up with swings and pushups. I was able to do 5x5 then switched to 5x3. For the squats i also had a 20lb vest and finished all using dbl 50lb bells. It was tough. Figure i'll maintain squats for a week then start adding a rep to each set.

03-28-21 07:29 PM - Post#909197    

I'm sure in a podcast Pat Flynn said the new version one was too much for him & he burnt out trying it.

03-28-21 08:32 PM - Post#909198    

The original is definitely the best!

04-05-21 09:37 PM - Post#909446    

I'm liking the new version. I'm coming from 6 days a week so 4 is nice. The volume per day is a lot but it feels good to complete it. I added a rep to the 10x5 squats so did 10x6. That was a burner. I managed the 10x5 on the c+p but not bumping up reps any time soon. So far so good.

04-23-21 11:34 AM - Post#909850    

I ran a double kettlebell version of Bryce Lane's 50/20 way back when and here is how it ended up:

https://sustainableevolut ion.wordpress.com/2013/10/20/5020-after -action-report/

-Stan

-Stanley_White My non-certified, Joe Average, works for me, scientific sample of one blog may be viewed here: CLICK

04-25-21 02:38 PM - Post#909870    

• Steve Rogers Said:

But Steve, it's too simple it cant work. (imagine that being said like Gene wilders Willy wonka...

04-25-21 04:31 PM - Post#909872    

• Brandell69 Said:

Of course Dan often says: simple, not easy.

"Coyote is always waiting, and Coyote is always hungry."

05-01-21 07:04 PM - Post#910052    

Hello Steve,

How many days a week did you perform the workout?

Best/Favorite Double Kettlebell Program
05-02-21 11:18 AM - Post#910061    

• Upside Said:

Hi. It was 2 or 3 days per week with 2 to 4 days per week throwing practice.

"Coyote is always waiting, and Coyote is always hungry."

Edited by Steve Rogers on 05-02-21 11:18 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

Best/Favorite Double Kettlebell Program
05-02-21 01:07 PM - Post#910064    

• Hellequin Said:

How did KB Strong work for you?


I like it, but both times I've done it I petered out at the 10x4 and 10x5 territory.

For those that don't know, you started out with a weight that is a "tough" 4 or 5 rep max clean and press.

First workout is 10x1, and you slowly add reps/sets until you are at 10x6 with the same weight.

Both times I felt great progressing from 10x1 to 10x3, but then things started to bog down with sets of 4 and sets of 5.

I need a lot of rest between sets of 5 (that was over my rep max a few months earlier), so the workouts were starting to drag. Elbows weren't feeling good either (which could have been a technique issue.) Maybe I'm closer to my potential limit and plateau quicker than others, but I'm thinking it works great for me up to 10x4.

I like the C&P and may drop down a half bell size and do the GIANT (which uses 10 rep max bells rather than 4/5 rep max bells.)

Could be easier on my elbows and better for hypertrophy too.



Edited by Jim James on 05-02-21 01:08 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

Re: Best/Favorite Double Kettlebell Program
05-02-21 02:32 PM - Post#910068    

• Jim James Said:

Start over again at 1 clean and do military presses. 10 x 1, 10 x 2, 10 x3.

Used double 45's today and did this complex.
10 x 5, One Clean, 5 presses, 5 squats, 5 double rows.
rest 60-90 seconds. Done in under 20 minutes.
You can always throw in 5 double swings as well.

05-07-21 12:52 PM - Post#910197    

The prometheus protocol (v2) has been fantastic. I changed up from the single leg deadlifts as my lower back didn't appreciate them. Instead I varied from heavy swings to deficit reverse lunges. Stuck with the C+P and Squats as advertised despite what I said previously. Warmup was either swings or squats along with pushups. I kept calories closer to maintenance, with a few days here and there above. I'm noticing more muscle all over though so 2 thumbs up.