RomanT
Total Posts: 61
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02-24-20 04:57 PM - Post#894711
Should a 60+ year old male incorporate some form of interval protocol as part of their strength training?
Currently they train 3 days per week and focus on the goblet squat, deadlift and loaded carriers. Several accessories are also performed such as curls, bat wings etc. Minimal pressing and push exercises due to mobility issues. Occasionally floor work is done.
The other days are spent on mobility work, and cardio on a stationary bike or running. The cardio is kept at a pace where they can comfortably hold a conversation and the duration varies between 30-60 minutes.
The intention is to train for wellbeing and longevity.
Would it be beneficial for them to do some form of interval training on the stationary bike? Not sure how to program this as the idea is not for them to go all out or need days to recover and miss workouts.
Thoughts?
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Dan John
Total Posts: 12292
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02-24-20 05:55 PM - Post#894712
I'm about 63 and I do this with the complexes. (Type in Dan John complexes and you get everything). Mike and I ruck for about two miles, then do three sets of complexes I go/You go style.
That's a reasonable start to this. On a stationary bike or a rower, you can certainly find much brighter people here than me.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...
Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you |
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RomanT
Total Posts: 61
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02-24-20 06:30 PM - Post#894713
Thanks Dan. Appreciate the reply.
I'm familiar with your complexes. I do them myself. Unfortunately, the old geezer I train with does not have a strength background and hasn't done complexes before so I'm not sure how I would structure these. Deadlift and row would work, hang cleans wouldn't and neither would the overhead press, ohs and back squat.
Perhaps using dumbbells might be the way to go as they could use light weights with the movements...
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Upside
Total Posts: 185
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02-24-20 07:53 PM - Post#894714
The 40-Day Workout and/or Even Easier Strength are part of my yearly rotation, usually to the tune of twice a year. When I am in a 40-Day or EES cycle I perform intervals twice a week on a Schwinn Airdyne. There is a common format of 30/90 to the intervals meaning 30 seconds peak effort followed by 90 seconds easy pedaling. In my experience the best results have been realized by starting with 20/90 for six sets. There comes a point when I know that I can now advance to the 30/90 protocol. Again, six sets. When I am feeling confident I up it to eight sets. I have tried ten sets but have seen no additional benefit from it. I would stress that easy pedaling means EASY during the rest interval, at least in my case. After a few weeks using this approach I really feel good and often question whether I should switch to something else just because I planned it out that way. Yet, I always do.
During warmer seasons I have had success with ten swings followed by a hill sprint.
Dan has chronicled his "Great Eight" interval workout which I have used more than a few times. Of particular appeal to me with this workout is how Dan has described starting slow then tapering.
In my case the key is autoregulation. When I first started some of these approaches I was in my fifties and was able to push myself to what I hoped would be greater results only to prove to myself that my initial impulse to leave some in the tank was correct. It's not as simple as leaving the session feeling better than when you started, but then again, it frequently is that simple.
I'm sixty-three and have found that I usually thrive with twice weekly intervals with occasional weeks of three sessions. That typically comes with recharge phases where I am transitioning from barbell work to KB's or vice versa. Lots of mobility and minimal resistance work.
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AusDaz
Total Posts: 3611
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I think the key points here are:
1. Don’t Do Dumb Stuff (DDDS!).
2. Sustainable before Doable; Doable before Optimal
In short, the challenge is to add a little bit more intensity to what they’re already doing without breaking anything, which you’re probably not going to be able to tell for a few weeks.
After that, there’s intervals and intervals.
Some lower intensity interval methods you can do on a bike or treadmill include:
1. Tempo intervals - 10-20 reps of 10-12 seconds work at 70-80% max with 60-120 seconds active recovery in between focusing on getting the HR down as quickly as possible.
2. High intensity continuous training - 5-20 min sets of continuous work at about 70% effort with max resistance (incline on treadmill or load on bike)
3. High resistance intervals - 10-20 reps of about 10 seconds work at 100% against maximum resistance with 60-120 seconds active recovery in between focusing on getting the HR down as quickly as possible
For recovery enhancement, I find that about 30-40 mins (20-30 mins of work) is best.
Depending on the individual, bike might be a better option than pounding it out on the treadmill.
Edited by AusDaz on 02-24-20 08:03 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Dan John
Total Posts: 12292
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02-24-20 09:19 PM - Post#894718
Great stuff...damn!
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...
Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you |
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Steve Rogers
Total Posts: 6158
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02-24-20 11:05 PM - Post#894722
I'm 69 and doing great with kettlebell snatch intervals with sets of 5 with a relatively heavy weight and recovering by walking until my heart rate gets down to 105 from a peak of about 120. High intensity effort is about 10 seconds and recovery varies from about 15 seconds to 120 seconds for 14 to 44 intervals. I'm doing this about 3 times per week. Good recovery between intervals is essential.
| "Coyote is always waiting, and Coyote is always hungry." |
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Kyle Aaron
Total Posts: 1911
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Should a 60+ year old male incorporate some form of interval protocol as part of their strength training?
To borrow a phrase, "it depends." But I would add: "usually not."
With anyone, the two basic things to consider are their capabilities and goals.
Capabilities include,
1. previous training history - there's a difference between a 60yo who's done 2-3 decades of running now doing intervals, and a previously sedentary 60yo doing intervals
2. chronic injuries & health conditions - obviously, someone with a history of lower back pain should probably not be doing burpees, but other situations aren't always as clear
Goals vary, but fall into three basic areas,
1. looks
2. performance
3. health
and most people put them in that order. I would suggest that for longevity of training, most people need to reverse the order.
Previous training history often affects goals. The person who used to be a quarterback in high school and benched 315 in their 40s, that guy at 60yo could have a torn ACL and be recovering from a heart attack, he still wants to jerk his bodyweight and run 5km in under 30'. This guy needs you to moderate his ambition, because he's determined to injure himself, and if he does he'll probably blame you for it.
The person who was previously sedentary and is 60yo generally just wants his back to stop hurting, and reduce his chances of keeling over in the next few years. This guy is a lot easier to handle and less likely to injure himself, but may need you to pump up his ambition after the first few months.
The second type is much more common, and your mention of shoulder mobility issues points towards that. If that's your guy, he doesn't need intervals. Always consider: how will what I am getting them to do work within their capabilities and take them towards their goals?
The typical 60yo Western male (and many younger, and women) is previously sedentary, overweight, has lower back pain, shoulder mobility issues, and 1-3 chronic health conditions like type II diabetes. This guy needs to,
1. have friends - especially males near or post-retirement
2. if smoking, stop; and drink less, indeed drinking not at all if you can get them to
3. screens off 2130, lights out 2230 - or whatever equivalent, assuming a get up time of 6-7.
4. eat more fresh fruit and vegies
5. eat more beans and fish
6. at least 10,000 steps a day outside
7. 2 (not 3+) lifting workouts weekly, with mobility work supersetted in (they almost certainly won't do it on their own)
Doing intervals is not necessary for health, and indeed carries risks to health for many previously sedentary people, and over-60s.
Edited by Kyle Aaron on 02-25-20 04:08 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Kyle Aaron
Total Posts: 1911
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High resistance intervals - 10-20 reps of about 10 seconds work at 100% against maximum resistance with 60-120 seconds active recovery in between focusing on getting the HR down as quickly as possible
With respect, I do not consider this a prudent course of action when dealing with a previously sedentary 60yo, particularly one whose medical history we don't know.
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AusDaz
Total Posts: 3611
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High resistance intervals - 10-20 reps of about 10 seconds work at 100% against maximum resistance with 60-120 seconds active recovery in between focusing on getting the HR down as quickly as possible
With respect, I do not consider this a prudent course of action when dealing with a previously sedentary 60yo, particularly one whose medical history we don't know.
In those circumstances, I agree.
On the other hand, if you had someone who has a base of doing 3 x per week gym work and 3 x per week mobility + bike work or running at an easy conversational pace and their trainer was looking to gradually and sensible introduce some interval training methods, then that might be different.
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jamej
Total Posts: 510
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02-25-20 07:27 AM - Post#894734
I'm 63. Complexes are good at any age. My biggest lesson is workout alot, 2 or 3 times a day or more. But, keep the workouts short, i.e., about 20 minutes. Set up all your exercises do one after another and get out. Amazing things can be accomplished at this age. For the vast majority of us life time records can be set at this age. Sled work is number one - no spinal loading and great strength development.
Good luck,
Jim
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DanMartin
Total Posts: 20705
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davidcc
Total Posts: 56
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1. have friends - especially males near or post-retirement
2. if smoking, stop; and drink less, indeed drinking not at all if you can get them to
3. screens off 2130, lights out 2230 - or whatever equivalent, assuming a get up time of 6-7.
4. eat more fresh fruit and vegies
5. eat more beans and fish
6. at least 10,000 steps a day outside
7. 2 (not 3+) lifting workouts weekly, with mobility work supersetted in (they almost certainly won't do it on their own)
Great advice.
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Adam S
Total Posts: 629
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Depending on the cardiac condition of the 60+ year-old (which may require a stress test to asssess), you may want to consider longer intervals done at lower intensities. Martin Gibala's mis-titled One Minute Workout book has lots of options. My impression is that he prefers shorter, more intense intervals, but he offers guidelines for the lower-intensity 10x1 and the Norwegian 4x4, both of which involve moderate rates of perceived exertion (RPE). Personally, I find the Norwegian 4x4s pretty aversive, but the cardio, blood sugar, and other metabolic benefits of that workout are well documented (maybe better documented than any other interval style), and you can find lots of helpful information about how to run it on the web. Google "Norwegian 4x4" or "CERG" (where much of the research was done). My gripe about much of the fanfare about interval training is that, done correctly, it is NOT a real time-saver. If you warm up per the guidelines, run the 4x4 (four minute work periods with 3 minute moderate-pace recoveries), and then do a short cooldown, you are going to be in the 30-35 minute range every time. Still, it appears that you get benefits from interval training that are not easy to get from steady-state training.
| Why are you squatting in the curl rack? |
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Dan John
Total Posts: 12292
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02-25-20 02:02 PM - Post#894759
It was fun watching Covert Baily switch from hating weights and intensity to fully appreciating it. His PBS stuff, I think, did some damage. He is so anti-fat in these talks that it gave fatphobia.
I had no idea he had a web presence. Unless, this is from the dark ages.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...
Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you |
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Old Miler
Total Posts: 1744
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Should a 60+ year old male incorporate some form of interval protocol as part of their strength training?
....
The cardio is kept at a pace where they can comfortably hold a conversation and the duration varies between 30-60 minutes.
Would it be beneficial for them to do some form of interval training on the stationary bike?
I am not qualified to comment on doing intervals in the strength training. But if they have been doing cardio 30-60 minutes once or twice a week for a few weeks, they can ease in during their cardio.
Interval training does not mean savage sprints or deep lactate. It can just mean varying the pace up and down a bit. So, 10 minutes into that bike workout, just start alternating a couple of minutes faster then a couple of minutes easier.
In my experience most folks doing cardio in the gym end up doing this just to vary the monotony a bit. It comes very naturally on the bike, and even more so in the pool...
But, even serious runners progress gradually from 'steady running' in the autumn to 'racing' 9 months later. The same should apply to older folks: only go up one gear at a time, and get used to it before you go further.
I would also make sure the "intervals" are at least 3 minutes long, so it's upping the heart rate and not grinding through lactate, and they aren't tempted to sprint.
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RomanT
Total Posts: 61
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02-25-20 07:45 PM - Post#894771
Thank you all for your contributions. Very helpful.
As background, this question came up because they asked about intervals. My initial reaction was similar to that expressed by Kyle. I still don't think they need to do intervals, but this is not my area of expertise, and there are several good points mentioned on here. I'm open to giving it a go.
What I've proposed is for them to do intervals on the stationary bike once a week at a pace that is beyond conversational, up the heart rate, but not all out to complete exhaustion. We'll try a few different protocols and intensities, and see what works for them and how they feel.
Overall. intervals in this situation seem to be in the category, good to do, but not necessary.
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padddleperson
Total Posts: 57
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02-25-20 08:38 PM - Post#894777
One of the ones i did for a while that i think is great for older trainees (especially on a recumbent or exercise bike) was Sprint-8's. That was a catchy name for a certain sprint routine that was popular..20 minute workout, Warm up for 2-3 minutes, than do 30 second sprint, 90 second recovery, then do another sprint...Each of the eight sprints getting progressively harder so you start with an easy sprint. You don't have to start with 8 sprints, could start with 4 the first week...anywho i thought the ramp up aspect was great and it was over in 20 minutes
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AAnnunz
Total Posts: 24932
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02-26-20 11:00 AM - Post#894800
Thank you all for your contributions. Very helpful.
As background, this question came up because they asked about intervals. My initial reaction was similar to that expressed by Kyle. I still don't think they need to do intervals, but this is not my area of expertise, and there are several good points mentioned on here. I'm open to giving it a go.
What I've proposed is for them to do intervals on the stationary bike once a week at a pace that is beyond conversational, up the heart rate, but not all out to complete exhaustion. We'll try a few different protocols and intensities, and see what works for them and how they feel.
Overall. intervals in this situation seem to be in the category, good to do, but not necessary.
Exactly. If they want to become beasts after they reach the intermediate level, you can always throw in things that provide huffy puffy and increase strength & GPP, like farmer carries and sled work.
| Be strong. Be in shape. Be a man among men, regardless of your age or circumstances. |
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padddleperson
Total Posts: 57
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02-26-20 01:11 PM - Post#894809
"that provide huffy puffy" ..... thank you for that....that is now my new phrase with my family when i am going to workout "Got to go get my huffy puffy on" ...god only knows what other meanings it may have out on the interwebs but i love it.
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DanMartin
Total Posts: 20705
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02-26-20 02:22 PM - Post#894814
I believe that the Humane Burpee is ideal for the 60+ crowd.
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Dan John
Total Posts: 12292
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02-26-20 02:28 PM - Post#894815
What's good about the HB is that it can be progressed and regressed with a simple decision. I think we have done it a dozen different ways.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...
Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you |
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