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Display Name Post: Delorme questions        (Topic#36959)
aussieluke
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Total Posts: 4811
10-25-19 01:04 PM - Post#889533    



I’ve been messing around this week on the machines in my office gym. I’ve been ignoring them for over a year but it finally occurred to me this week to give them a go for something different, since I haven’t used machines for about 20 years - and the obvious way to me was to use the Delorme method, since machines make changing the load so easy.

But I can’t actually seem to find much detail online and since this forum and Dan’s blog has more Delorme info than most other places I thought I’d ask a few questions here:

How many exercises/machines should I do per session? I’m planning to keep to 2-3 days a week and repeat the same full body workout each time.

Currently doing:
Leg press
Leg extensions
Leg curls
Chest press
Pec dec
Seated row
Lat pull down
Shoulder press

Is that too many? If anything I’d drop the leg curl and extension as I’m not sure they agree with my knees.


Is there much difference between the delorme method and the Arthur Jones Nautilus stuff other than the two extra 50% and 75% sets?


Is it fine to add additional stuff after like a kettlebell complex or some swings etc (today I did the humane Burpee after) ...I like the idea of including some real movement after using the machines.

What about off days? Some swings or snatches and other light stuff?

Is there any benefit to adding any additional sets or some back off sets to add volume to a lift that is particularly weak? ...currently really struggling with the pec dec

Finally if I wasn’t using the delorme method with the machines for basic hypertrophy goals, what would be the modern alternative? Is it still just 3 sets of 10? Or do things like 5x5 or ladders work here too?
Log


 
Dan John
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Total Posts: 11323
10-25-19 01:15 PM - Post#889537    



I always thought that the 50 and 75% range sets were the two most important. Then, yes, go after it with the 100.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
Adam S
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Total Posts: 493
10-30-19 05:12 PM - Post#889691    



Google "APRE." That is the acronym for autoregulatory progressive resistance exercise. APRE adds a fourth set after the 100% (third) set. The weight for the fourth set is keyed off of the reps you got on the third set, based on an adjustment chart that lists various reps and tells you whether to go up, down, or keep the weight the same. The weight for the third set of the next workout is keyed off of the reps you got on the fourth set of the previous workout. Mel Siff wrote about it in Supertraining, as I recall. I think his version included progressions with 6 reps and 3 reps, as well as 10 reps (with different adjustment charts). Bryan Mann, who is strength coach at some college or university, has written a lot about. I think it's good stuff, but so is classical Delorme. (Bill Hinbern sells a nice reprint of Delorme's book.) A lot of people have done just fine with two build-up sets and one all-out final set. It's actually a way that both a lot of HIT and a lot of so-called volume trainers have trained, when you start to unpack the programs. If you want a bit more volume and can take two all-out sets on each exercise, APRE may be perfect. But I wouldn't use it on more than 5 or 6 exercises per workout. But that's just me.
Why are you squatting in the curl rack?


 
aussieluke
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Total Posts: 4811
10-31-19 11:05 AM - Post#889726    



Very interesting thanks I had a quick look but will delve into it further.

I’m only a few workouts in so far but this is feeling like some of the best training I’ve done in a long time. I’ve been so anti machine all this time and now I feel like I’ve been missing out.

To me it makes sense to add a little bit of kb work either after or on other days to keep that real movement in there.

I’ve maxed out the plates on the leg press machine already so I went up to 20 reps with 20 plates yesterday. Adding a second set as per that APRE could be a good option. Otherwise I might have to drop the load and start going much slower - but then that could be going down a whole other rabbit hole...
Log


 
DanMartin
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Total Posts: 20114
10-31-19 04:17 PM - Post#889735    



Arthur Jones would have you go on your final set to momentary muscular fatigue...also known as failure. Machines lend themselves quite well to doing that.

The problem is most folks, myself included, always hold a little back and don't truly push the envelope. Exercising, be it weights or sprinting, to the point of vomiting is an unnatural act. But, my main man Dr. Ken swore by it.
Practice what you suck at.


 
Andy Mitchell
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Total Posts: 5086
10-31-19 06:00 PM - Post#889740    



This all depends on your results regardless to whether one is a bodybuilder, CrossFitter or powerlifter
if you’re getting stronger and increasing muscle mass then it’s working.
It took me a long time to get it into my head that we all respond differently to exercise, we all have muscles that are the right shape and some that are not, some body parts that respond well and some don’t.

You can never be too thin, too tan or too rich..
D-mart


 
Andy Mitchell
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Total Posts: 5086
10-31-19 06:06 PM - Post#889741    



With the extensions and leg curls for example the knee has to be inline with the axis of the lever, you’ll know when it is it just feels right.
To me the leg extension is a knee saver, the most important part is full extension and the back rest should be angled back so the hamstrings don’t interfere.

Finding the right intensity of work takes time some people respond real quick some need time.

You can never be too thin, too tan or too rich..
D-mart


 
Andy Mitchell
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Total Posts: 5086
10-31-19 06:15 PM - Post#889742    



  • DanMartin Said:
Arthur Jones would have you go on your final set to momentary muscular fatigue...also known as failure. Machines lend themselves quite well to doing that.

The problem is most folks, myself included, always hold a little back and don't truly push the envelope. Exercising, be it weights or sprinting, to the point of vomiting is an unnatural act. But, my main man Dr. Ken swore by it.



I think Arthur Jones would (especially later in life) include a “break in” workout as he acknowledged that not everyone is Dr Ken .

I think that “intensity of work” is subjective .

Going to the point in a set where you cannot move the weight in the positive and maintaining that work rate through an entire workout is optimal.

Adding another set is up to you, but the answer is always the same.

Are you progressing?
More often than not less is more for most of us.
You can never be too thin, too tan or too rich..
D-mart


 
12bernd
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Total Posts: 155
11-01-19 08:38 AM - Post#889750    



You could also start doing single leg presses, a favorite of Ed Coan.
 
aussieluke
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Total Posts: 4811
11-19-19 11:27 PM - Post#890545    



after two weeks of doing these workouts, and then a two week forced break, I'm back on it this week, and my first workout back still made progress over the last session two weeks ago

...Is doing the same full-body workout three days a week, plus some simple kb stuff on the days in between, too much? ...or should I just keep going until it becomes too much ad maybe drop down to two days?

...I always want to do more rather than less and maybe I probably shouldn't...
Log


 
Dan John
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Total Posts: 11323
11-19-19 11:38 PM - Post#890547    



I have a KB Delorme plan...Classical Conditioning in X movements. Do you have it?
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
aussieluke
*
Total Posts: 4811
11-20-19 12:02 AM - Post#890548    



  • Dan John Said:
I have a KB Delorme plan...Classical Conditioning in X movements. Do you have it?



I just found that in the back of 'Can you go?'


I'm currently using the machines at my office gym and they seem to be working really well for this.

It 'feels' right to me to be doing this basic hypertrophy stuff on the machines and then use the other days to do some kb ballistic/hinge work etc that is missing from the machine work
Log


 
Dan John
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Total Posts: 11323
11-20-19 08:53 AM - Post#890555    



Trying to mix several things together is tough. Bryan Mann, by the way, is at the U of Miami now; he did the research at U of MIssouri.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
Arsenio Billingham
*
Total Posts: 48
11-22-19 11:31 AM - Post#890629    



I hear you with the siren song of machines. My old gym had a huge area devoted to free weights, with the machines tucked away. The new place is mostly machines with a small area for free weights - right now I do my suitcase carries between a row of machines and ellipticals.

I'm doing a DMPM now, but one thing I've wondered about trying at some point down the road is machines and get-ups. Maybe something like machines M/F, W for Get-Ups/Swings?
 
aussieluke
*
Total Posts: 4811
11-24-19 09:11 PM - Post#890749    



  • DanMartin Said:
Arthur Jones would have you go on your final set to momentary muscular fatigue...also known as failure. Machines lend themselves quite well to doing that.

The problem is most folks, myself included, always hold a little back and don't truly push the envelope. Exercising, be it weights or sprinting, to the point of vomiting is an unnatural act. But, my main man Dr. Ken swore by it.



I just re-read this and it raises another question I am having with this...

How hard should these workouts be?

After a few weeks now of progression, I'm finding myself pushing for 12-15 reps with a weight I may have got 10 reps with on the previous session, but am finding as the loads are increasing, that could mean hitting a new target or failing at 7-8 reps depending on recovery etc

...and that is absolutely fine - I am enjoying training that hard - and it is only one hard set on a few machine lifts each workout - not like I'm pushing max deadlifts and squats etc

...but is that the way these workouts should feel?

...am I meant to be pushing for progression each session? (eg double progression of either load or reps)

...or just take each session as it comes and gradually increase reps or sets over weeks not days?

Log


 
Dan John
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Total Posts: 11323
11-25-19 08:26 AM - Post#890755    



I like Bryan Mann's explanation on this.

It's tough to go up every workout or every week. That's why I went to just doing 8s and just a one minute rest between sets. It was repeatable. (Transformation Workout).
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
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