10-15-19 02:19 PM - Post#889092    

Hi Dan.

Quick question regarding this complex.


Armour building / grad workout.

In easy strength Dan said.

"I shouldn’t tell people this, but my new number-one “Armor Building,” or hypertrophy, program is this:

• 1 double clean
• 3 double presses
• 2 front squats

Repeat in groups of 3 to 5. Why? Well, my athletes (and I) do this easy little variation and just keep banging away. The time under load for each rep can easily be more than 15 seconds"

But I have also more commonly seen

"Armor Building Complex (ABC):
2 double cleans
1 double press
3 double front squats"

Is one a typo?
Is one an updated version that you discovered worked better?

Just curious as I intend to run it for a few months when I get bored of DMPM.

I liked the look of the one with 3 presses instead of one so I was leaning towards that but the benefit of the 1 press version would be going about 8 kg heavier.

Thanks

10-15-19 03:52 PM - Post#889099    

This is right:

"Armor Building Complex (ABC):
2 double cleans
1 double press
3 double front squats"

No idea why the other one wasn't corrected.

Daniel John Just handing down what I was handed down... Make a Difference. Live. Love. Laugh. Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude) Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk. Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth. Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights. Reread great books. Say thank you

10-15-19 04:11 PM - Post#889100    

Awesome thanks Dan!

If you are curious I have the Kindle edition UK if that makes a difference.

10-15-19 06:09 PM - Post#889108    

Ah! So that's the workout in meters.

Daniel John Just handing down what I was handed down... Make a Difference. Live. Love. Laugh. Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude) Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk. Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth. Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights. Reread great books. Say thank you

10-16-19 04:17 PM - Post#889142    

When in doubt, always blame the metric system

10-16-19 05:34 PM - Post#889148    

I always blame SAE, because NO ONE likes fractions.

10-20-19 07:15 PM - Post#889339    

• Dan John Said:

This seems to be calling my name for some reason. It could replace one of my barbell days.

It Is Better To Be Stronger Than You Look, Than Look Stronger Than You Are My Weights Are In Freedom Units DEADLIFTS RULE!! =[[[[[[--------]]]]]]=

10-20-19 08:13 PM - Post#889342    

Tried this a few days ago and may make it my main workout for a few weeks.

"Coyote is always waiting, and Coyote is always hungry."

10-20-19 08:38 PM - Post#889346    

What % of your 1RM were you using for the press?

For most I would consider that the limiting factor so I was going to try my 5-8RM then have a light day also thrown in every now & again with a 10-15 RM.

10-20-19 09:25 PM - Post#889347    

I used about 75% 1RM for 10 rounds. Planning to vary the number of rounds to manage intensity.

"Coyote is always waiting, and Coyote is always hungry."

Armour building complex
10-21-19 02:12 AM - Post#889352    

I considered doing that aswell.

I was going to go more by feel with the rounds as I was considering a higher frequency than normal so might hit it 5 times in one week.

Dice roll for weight to be used.
But more than likely with my KBs there are only 2 possibly 3 choices.

I just did the maths my options are
65,80,95% of my 1rm in the BB OHP .

So really only two options unless I want to do push press.

However I will probably be doing a programme after armour building that is pretty much just C&PP so I may just stick with whatever I can strict press.

Edited by Cearball on 10-21-19 02:50 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

Re: Armour building complex
10-21-19 04:14 AM - Post#889355    

• Cearball Said:

Even though the press limits the load you can use, what's gonna kill you is the squats. Fifteen rounds of ABC means 15 presses, 30 cleans and 45 squats.

Start way lighter than you think.

"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums. It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable. Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow. Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't." Dan Martin

10-21-19 06:34 AM - Post#889358    

"Start way lighter than you think. "

I do Dbl KBs with 20s, 24s, 28s. If I go for a while, it's 20s. I've gone as light as 14s in a chain:

24s
14s
20s

Repeat through maybe five times? It's pretty good.

Daniel John Just handing down what I was handed down... Make a Difference. Live. Love. Laugh. Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude) Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk. Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth. Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights. Reread great books. Say thank you

10-21-19 07:40 AM - Post#889359    

Thanks for the go light tip.

I don't have any of the same bell so it limits me a little.

However a 16+12kg bell isn't far off my 50% RM for OHP so maybe I should include it in the mix?

Always at least a 4kg difference.
20/24kg pair etc.

7.5,12,16,20,24 all the way up to 48 is my range.

10-21-19 08:08 AM - Post#889363    

12+16 sounds like a good place to start, when it feels too light try 16+20. I just did 15 rounds with 2x16kg bells and it was about right. I'm kyphotic so holding the rack position for the squats was the most challengin part for me. Probably a good corrective for me.

"Coyote is always waiting, and Coyote is always hungry."

10-21-19 12:53 PM - Post#889372    

Not having double kettlebells i tried this complex with the titan landmine linebacker squat attachment i have...it worked really well for this. fyi..one of the better things i have bought from them for cheap money
https://www.titan.fitness/strength/strength -accessories/landmines/li nebacker-squat-landmine-a ttachme...

10-21-19 01:18 PM - Post#889373    

I'm only working with one kettlebell myself. I just do 3 cleans 3 presses 3 squats then repeat on the other arm for a while. Seems to beat me up well enough.

10-22-19 06:08 PM - Post#889418    

https://youtu.be/kRir9ckaOZQ

DJ tips.

Though I saw on Facebook.

This screen shot.

10-23-19 05:15 AM - Post#889432    

• Dan John Said:

What's the heaviest ABC and Eagle you've seen? That could become a nice long-term goal.

"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums. It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable. Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow. Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't." Dan Martin

10-23-19 01:06 PM - Post#889451    

did these for awhile last year and just came back to them as a finisher/accessory during my current program.

I'm training a friend who is very very new to weightlifting and we have somewhat limited equipment (no plates smaller than 2.5kg, i'm going to go buy some chains next week). He's a classic beanpole (probably about 5'11" and 130lbs max) and really struggling with the press. we did this as a finisher the other day in an 'I go, you go' fashion, and I think it will tick exactly the right boxes for both of us so thanks for the reminder!

10-24-19 06:53 AM - Post#889480    

I've done a round with the 36s on the ABCs just to do it. For me, the 20s are the right number for most of it.

Eagle? 24s straight through, no putting down.

Daniel John Just handing down what I was handed down... Make a Difference. Live. Love. Laugh. Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude) Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk. Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth. Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights. Reread great books. Say thank you

10-24-19 07:01 AM - Post#889481    

• Dan John Said:

"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums. It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable. Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow. Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't." Dan Martin

10-24-19 11:07 AM - Post#889492    

Been doing the ABC with double 12s, adding a rack carry before setting them down. Five rounds, interspersed with wood stacking, box hauling etc. If I feel frisky later in the day, I do some swings, my DMPM variation, 10x10 with a goblet, push up and row.

Been thinking about the Eagle. Backing it off from a challenge to something repeatable. Lighten the load, maybe go 5x5? Since it’s a big lower body hit, round it out with a few sets of C+P for the upper body?

10-29-19 07:43 PM - Post#889665    

Today I did 8 rounds with 44's with 90 seconds between rounds. It was a great little session.
I'm thinking that if a man built up to doing rounds with 106's, that man would be a beast!

It Is Better To Be Stronger Than You Look, Than Look Stronger Than You Are My Weights Are In Freedom Units DEADLIFTS RULE!! =[[[[[[--------]]]]]]=

11-02-19 07:01 PM - Post#889801    

I've been doing this for a couple of weeks with a pair of 16kg bells for 10 to 20 rounds 3 times per week and it feels pretty good. I'm thinking that if I worked up to a pair of 24kg (53#) bells I'd be feeling pretty beastly.

"Coyote is always waiting, and Coyote is always hungry."

11-03-19 12:51 AM - Post#889808    

https://breakingmuscle.com/fitness/adding-muscle -with-kettlebells-how-i-b uild-up-my-grapplers

This is an interesting program designed to do a similar thing .

Honestly Dan's programme sounds far more repeatable to me but I suppose if you went light enough....

Anyway thought people interested in the armour building complex might like to take a look.

I am still on DMPM & have no plans to switch still.

11-03-19 08:45 AM - Post#889811    

• Steve Rogers Said:

That is nice work! I really like the ABC and plan on gradually pushing up the poundages.
I have double 35's, 44's, 53's, 62's, 70's, so I already have challenging weights before needing anything heavier.
The only Barbell lift I really care about is the Deadlift, so I need to figure out a plan to work it in.

It Is Better To Be Stronger Than You Look, Than Look Stronger Than You Are My Weights Are In Freedom Units DEADLIFTS RULE!! =[[[[[[--------]]]]]]=

11-03-19 10:58 AM - Post#889814    

ABC+DL=Beast

I think that would be a great combo.

11-03-19 07:41 PM - Post#889825    

The Andrew Read program from breaking muscle Cearball linked above is so difficult that I have never actually managed to do the hard day as written, so yes, the armor building complex is a damn sight more repeatable than that!

Perhaps if I was 25 and in terrific fighting shape, but at 42 there is just no way I could do the high volume day. It's 150 long cycle clean and jerks! And 75 squats just for fun. That said, though, I only ever tried it with 24s. Maybe if I had a pair of 20s. Doing it with 16s just seemed pointless.

Notably, it's an old program, and from reading the stuff Andrew has written more recently and hearing him talk on FB, I'm not sure he would recommend that anyone do this nowadays, but of course I don't want to speak for him.

11-04-19 02:29 AM - Post#889830    

• Silverback61 Said:

Quadruple KB deadlift is a nice substitute.

"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums. It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable. Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow. Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't." Dan Martin

11-04-19 01:20 PM - Post#889849    

I'm envisioning two KBS per hand or is this something else?

11-04-19 02:22 PM - Post#889851    

• Cearball Said:

That's one way.

And this would be another one:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q8rOdBDvg4g

Using a really rugged sandbag, you could probably use a couple of 48s and a couple of 44s. Adding some chains or a 160 lbs Mir weighted vest, there will be no need for a barbell for a loooooooong time.

"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums. It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable. Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow. Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't." Dan Martin

Armour building complex
11-04-19 02:52 PM - Post#889852    

• BrianBinVA Said:

I'm with you. I've looked at that program a dozen times and tried the first day once using the push press. I really wanted it to work, as it seems to promise it all - hypertrophy plus all the good things clean and jerks/push presses are supposed to provide (power, strength, some 'athleticism' for lack of a better word.)

I think the issue is the ladders, imho. For me to do 2-4-6-8-10, I'd have to drop down to at least 16s or maybe lighter. Then the reps of 2 and 4 just seem like 'junk reps,' to borrow a term from the endurance world. Why do sets of 2 and 4 reps with the 16s - (assuming my 4 rep max is somewhere between 32-36kg)? I could be wrong, but almost seems liker filler.

If I am strong and fit enough to do a set of 10 on the 5th ladder at a given weight, then I'm not sure if a set of 2 (or even 4) with that weight is doing anything other than a little pre-exhaustion and taking time.


-----------

The search for the elusive perfect double KB program continues. Maybe it's the ABC, but that's a workout and not a program and I should only do it once a week. :)


-------





Edited by Jim James on 11-04-19 02:58 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

11-05-19 06:47 AM - Post#889883    

• Dan John Said:

I might pinch this for a few weeks. 3 x per week? 10 rounds? Sounds great.

'You can throw in the towel or use it to wipe the sweat off your face and keep going' 'Well ain't this place a geographical oddity? Two weeks from everywhere.' Ulysses Everett McGill

11-05-19 01:34 PM - Post#889913    

Play with the Rounds. Roll the dice maybe, 2-12. It's not meant to be anything but a "do this" challenge.

Please...don't overthink it.

Daniel John Just handing down what I was handed down... Make a Difference. Live. Love. Laugh. Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude) Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk. Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth. Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights. Reread great books. Say thank you

11-05-19 02:20 PM - Post#889919    

• Dan John Said:

I get ya. It appeals right now because life itself is very ‘Overthinkey’ this is the opposite. Did it tonight and enjoyed it.

'You can throw in the towel or use it to wipe the sweat off your face and keep going' 'Well ain't this place a geographical oddity? Two weeks from everywhere.' Ulysses Everett McGill

11-07-19 04:42 AM - Post#890002    

I only have a 12, a 16 and a 24KG
Is there anything similar I could do with Barbell? Southwood Complex?

I have been on 5-3-1 75% volume Workout for almost 5 cycles, I need to change the gear after a cycle of 85% :-)

Thanks!

My training log

11-07-19 09:09 AM - Post#890014    

• blkjss Said:

Look up the strong first (yer I know) “Strength Aerobics” workout

The short version is, with a single kettlebell:

1 clean, 1 press, 1 front squat with your left arm. Put the bell down. Rest, shake it off etc, repeat with right arm.

It’s more enjoyable and more work than it sounds. If you use a stopwatch and do one side every 30 seconds for 20 minutes or more, the reps soon add up.

Log

11-07-19 11:06 AM - Post#890019    

I’ve done the Southwood complex as maintenance. It’s good because it’s really quick, leaving plenty of time for everything else, training or otherwise.

11-08-19 02:22 PM - Post#890055    

I'm going to modify the ABC to...

2 Double Clean & Presses
3 Double Front Squats

This seems like a better balance to me.

It Is Better To Be Stronger Than You Look, Than Look Stronger Than You Are My Weights Are In Freedom Units DEADLIFTS RULE!! =[[[[[[--------]]]]]]=

11-08-19 03:36 PM - Post#890059    

• Silverback61 Said:

I must admit I tried it a few times this week (not a full workout though, just a couple of rounds during other sessions) and found myself thinking "why just one press?"

11-08-19 03:43 PM - Post#890061    

For my average client, the press is the limiting factor. So requiring only 1 allows them to go maybe one size heavier because the cleans and front squats are relatively "easier."

Leo

ATC Fitness

11-08-19 04:18 PM - Post#890065    

• Old Miler Said:

Because more presses would mean lighter squats (too light in my opinion).

You can always do a rotating scheme:

Heavy day: 2 cleans, 1 press and 3 squats.

Medium day: 3 cleans, 2 presses and 1 squat.

Light day: 1 clean, 3 presses and 2 squats.

"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums. It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable. Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow. Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't." Dan Martin

11-08-19 07:17 PM - Post#890073    

• Old Miler Said:

Yep, 1 more press per round makes more sense to me. My goal is to do my version for rounds with at least Double 88's.

It Is Better To Be Stronger Than You Look, Than Look Stronger Than You Are My Weights Are In Freedom Units DEADLIFTS RULE!! =[[[[[[--------]]]]]]=

11-09-19 04:09 AM - Post#890089    

That's fine, but the workout was developed for specific reasons. Changing it is fine, but you have to remember that sometimes I have to do specific things for specific reasons.

Daniel John Just handing down what I was handed down... Make a Difference. Live. Love. Laugh. Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude) Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk. Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth. Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights. Reread great books. Say thank you

11-09-19 06:52 AM - Post#890092    

Dan, people will never stop changing programs and workouts. I don't know why. Everybody seems to know better and wants confirmation afterwards.

I loved your podcast about the ABC and I started to do the complex once a week without taking something else away. Doing 8-15 rounds with lighter KBs than I though I would take. Love it, will keep on doing it.

Thank you for this great complex.

Armour building complex
11-09-19 10:26 AM - Post#890103    

Hey, all complexes are good! After really thinking about it, I'm going with this one...

2 Double Clean & Presses + 4 Double Fronts Squats = 1 Round

For my goals, I have always preferred to do more work with fewer sets.

Stay Strong!!

It Is Better To Be Stronger Than You Look, Than Look Stronger Than You Are My Weights Are In Freedom Units DEADLIFTS RULE!! =[[[[[[--------]]]]]]=

Edited by Silverback61 on 11-09-19 10:33 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

11-09-19 11:27 AM - Post#890105    

• Hellequin Said:

What podcast?

I like to finish each round with a rack carry.

11-09-19 07:38 PM - Post#890118    

Dan John has a podcast! How did I miss this? Great stuff.

11-10-19 04:12 AM - Post#890125    

Two:
Weekly with Pat Flynn
danjohnworkouts.com (click "Podcast" oddly)

In WW, I try to repost many of the others that I do, too.

Daniel John Just handing down what I was handed down... Make a Difference. Live. Love. Laugh. Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude) Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk. Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth. Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights. Reread great books. Say thank you