10-27-18 02:28 AM - Post#872704    

Hi Gentlemen,

I've been a lurker on here for years, and have learned much from many of you. Thank you.

I'm looking for examples of people who have seen appreciable increases in back squat strength during the EES/40-day program. In the past, I myself have seen great deadlift progress, and near-miraculous pull-up gains, even while dropping 10lbs on the program. At the same time, however, and surely thanks to the weight loss, my back squat dropped by 5%.

I know Dan John has said many times that squats don't work out well on this program. Personally I wonder if this is due to a greater potential for form creep in the squat - if it's just less structurally stable, or less "locked in" than the deadlift. Either way, I'm hoping to find counterexamples. I wouldn't bother if I hadn't read this great thread where the OP made respectable gains on his back squat.

I should note that I'm really only looking for people who'd already attained what you might call "intermediate" strength levels, i.e. a 300lb+ 1RM and beyond. Going from 185 to 225 is awesome, and laudable, but it's not as instructive for my purposes at the moment.

Disclaimer: I'll be starting the 40-day program again in a week, and am trying to decide how, and whether, to include back squats or experiment with power cleans. I love this program, and plan on training this way for many years.

So...any monstrous Easy Strength squatters out there?

10-27-18 03:20 AM - Post#872705    

It's how I took my squat "sorta max" from 165 to 180kg. But my bodyweight went up, not down.

Or at least, using my version of it (3-5 lifts, using 60-80% of current "sorta max" for about 10 reps total, done 3-5 days a week for six weeks).

When we use this version of ES, a careful persual of the logs show the lifts that went nowhere or declined are those where the person was always at 60% or always at 80%; the best results come when the person uses the whole range.

If your bodyweight drops and your pullups go up, that is unsurprising. It's like saying your bench press reps went up when you dropped the bench from 225 to 215.

Deadlift is the one we often see the biggest gains on in programmes like this, simply because it's usually the first time the person has done a lot of deadlifting. Practice.

Generally speaking, unless you're obese or a noob, if you drop bodyweight then your lifts will drop or stall, too. Such is life.

Athletic Club East Strength in numbers

Re: Squat Success on Even Easier Strength?
10-27-18 03:26 AM - Post#872706    

I’ve experienced moderate success with all my lifts (not all of them at the same time, though) during my Easy Strength stints.

Thing is, I never neither wanted nor expected my lifts to skyrocket. I was trying to do the bare minimum to not-lose strength and I ended up making a bit of progress (which was a very welcome surprise).

I suppose my particular variation of the program could be re-branded as Lazy Strength or even Laid Back Strength.

"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums. It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable. Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow. Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't." Dan Martin

10-27-18 06:03 AM - Post#872707    

• Kyle Aaron Said:

That's fascinating. Exactly what I'm looking for. Thank you. By 3-5 lifts do you mean a hinge, a squat, and a press? Or 3-5 variations on the squat over time (i.e. 2 weeks of back squat, 2 of front, 2 of zerchers, etc)?

And just to clarify, were you doing 6 x 1 and 5-3-2 days and still staying within that 60%-80% range?

• Kyle Aaron Said:

Forgive me I should have said weighted pullups. I went from easy 2 x 5 with no added weight, to easy 2 x 5 with 20kg added. So even though I lost about 4-5kg of bodyweight over the 8 weeks, I was still wildly impressed by the results. That's how Easy Strength "clicked" for me. I've achieved high pullup reps in the past, and reasonably heavy weighted pullups, but never so easily.

10-27-18 08:14 AM - Post#872709    

I've done EES several times and always do well with squats, because I start with no more than 50% 1rm on 2x5 days and work on my patterning, taking on every segment of the movement. After the last time I did the program, I got to legal depth with all three of my attempts at a meet, which for me is a miracle.

Weighted chin/pullup and deadlift improvements are a given. Bench press not so much. (Probably an age thing.)

Be strong. Be in shape. Be a man among men, regardless of your age or circumstances.

10-27-18 12:09 PM - Post#872711    

That might be it right there...easy squats.

Daniel John Just handing down what I was handed down... Make a Difference. Live. Love. Laugh. Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude) Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk. Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth. Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights. Reread great books. Say thank you

10-27-18 05:14 PM - Post#872717    

• Jordan D Said:

3-5 of the classic DJ 5. Some sort of squat, some sort of push, some sort of pull, some sort of hip hinge, some sort of loaded carry.

• Quoting:

No, that's too complicated for me, and judging by the questions that pop up, for most people.

To be clear, this is my version of ES:

• every workout day at least, have 1 cup of oats for breakfast, two pieces of fruit for morning tea, and for lunch two palm-sized pieces of meat or fish and two cups of mixed vegies (or 4 cups salad)
• pick 3-5 lifts
• find your "sorta max" in each, and calculate 60% and 80% of them
• 60% is your floor, you never do less than that, however awful you feel; 80% is your ceiling, you never do more, however great you feel
• 3-5 days a week you do a total of 10 reps with 60-80% of each lift. Get them out however you feel like on the day, whether it be 10 singles, a set of 10, 3x3, 5,3,2, doesn't matter. Though if you need to do singles with 60%, or can do 10 in one go with 80%, you messed up your "sorta max" test somehow.
• do this for 6 weeks
  

If you continue with ES then you do this,

retest your "sorta max" in those 3-5 lifts

you'll find 1-2 went up a lot, 1-2 a bit, and 1-2 stayed the same. Careful examination of the logs usually shows the one that didn't improve, the person spent all their time at 60%, or all their time at 80%.

whichever improved the most, and whichever the least, swap out for "same but different", eg back squats swap for front squats, cleans for snatches, etc.

As an example, for my squat it went,

Sorta max = 165kg
60-80% = 100-132.5kg (I rounded to nearest 2.5kg)

In six weeks I did 24 workouts. I did 4 at 60% which was either a set of 10, or 5,5; I did 4 at 80% which was 3x3 except one time was 5 doubles, which took me ages. The other 16 were something in between. On 22 of those workout days I followed the dietary advice, and in fact now that I look at it, the 5 grindy doubles with 80% was a day I didn't follow the advice, for breakfast I had eggs on toast, I ate no fruit, and for lunch I just had a sandwich, so there you go.

My experience and that of people who've tried this is that,

• most people can't handle more complicated dietary advice than that given above, but if they follow that, they're better than they are now. Only 47% of Aussies have the recommended 2 pieces of fruit a day, and 7% have the 5 vegies, or 2.5 cups, and only about 25% get the recommended fibre; the listed advice will get them at least 80% of the way there. More nutrients means more energy for life and workouts, and better digestion means better sleep.
• 3 lifts works best for pure strength gains
• If you do 4 or 5 then those extra 1-2 never improve anyway, you might still do them because you enjoy them or don't want them to decline, especially ones with a high technique component like the quick lifts.
• 2-3 days a week maintains strength (one lift might edge up but it's within the random variation you get with any max testing), 4 improves it, 5 feels good but doesn't seem to add anything more to the lifts compared to 4.
  

Squats are tricky, because they seem to need more practice than the other slow lifts, but they take a lot out of you. An 80% squat is a different experience to an 80% press.

Athletic Club East Strength in numbers

Squat Success on Even Easier Strength?
10-27-18 05:35 PM - Post#872718    

• Kyle Aaron Said:

Just one data point here, but I agree with the above. Deadlift, press and pull-ups seems to cover the lot, and if I tried anything else it usually ended up mutating into an easy warmup drill or a cooldown activity rather than an actual strength exercise after the first few sessions.

In particular deadlifts and any kind of squat really feels like "too much" - it's 20 hard reps for the legs and core, not 10.

Edited by Old Miler on 10-27-18 05:35 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

10-27-18 09:08 PM - Post#872721    

Kyle, that was a fantastic post. My experience parallels much of that. And it still gives me things to think about.

10-28-18 05:18 AM - Post#872729    

Mods,
Can we stick this at the top?

Daniel John Just handing down what I was handed down... Make a Difference. Live. Love. Laugh. Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude) Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk. Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth. Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights. Reread great books. Say thank you

Squat Success on Even Easier Strength?
10-28-18 10:25 AM - Post#872735    

Hey, Kyle, thanks for taking the time to breakdown your version of the program. Very well thought out.

You only listed meals through lunch. May we assume this is to fuel training later in the day? If so, do you also have post workout recommendations (snack, dinner)?

I know you've had success coaching masters class powerlifters. Have you tried this method as meet prep? Beginners and early intermediates would do well, of course, but I've always felt more advanced lifters need to practice straining with heavier weight (at least a few sessions of 90%+ two to four weeks out from competition). Based on your impressive squat numbers, however, I may have to rethink that philosophy. Any thoughts?

Be strong. Be in shape. Be a man among men, regardless of your age or circumstances.

Edited by AAnnunz on 10-28-18 10:50 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

10-28-18 03:20 PM - Post#872746    

Kyle- what were your average rest periods between sets?

Re: Squat Success on Even Easier Strength?
10-28-18 08:03 PM - Post#872769    

• AAnnunz Said:

I'm in no way a nutritionist. But this is not really about ideal nutrition, it's about trying to build good habits. If they get breakfast right, they'll probably get lunch and dinner right. If they get lunch right, they'll almost certainly get dinner right.

By "right" I mean following the Australian government's , or at least 80% of the way there. Like I said, only 47% of Aussies eat 2+ pieces of fruit a day, and only 7% get 5+ serves (2.5 cups chopped) of vegies. Most people get plenty of protein, it's just coming packaged with a lot of other stuff, like a chicken nugget or something.

It's like DJ said about the 5+1 movements: you get someone who isn't squatting and doing loaded carries, you get them to do them, and in three weeks they're better. "Find out what they're not doing, get them to do it, they're better!"

I think it's the same for food. "Find out what they're not eating, get them to eat it, they're better!" And most people aren't getting enough fruit and vegies and fibre.

DJ used to say a lot, quoting his old coach, "The beginning and end of all nutrition questions is: what did you have for breakfast?" And I've found this to be very true.

The best answer I ever got was, "couple of VBs." That's a heavy beer here in Australia. Did I really need to ask him what he had for lunch? Did it matter?

I trained a guy, 30 years old, he was taking Metamucil. I asked, "What did you have for breakfast?" He answered, "Last three days, white bread roll with chicken loaf and mayo in the car on the way to work."
"Okay, how about you try... some oats. Get up 15 minutes earlier, cook oats and eat them."
"Hey," said his wife, "we're shift workers, our sleep is precious to us."
"I'm a father of young kids, I get that. But here's the thing: you're taking Metamucil. Have you ever had trouble sleeping because of constipation? Even woken in the night with a bad belly? Maybe if things were flowing better, you'd have 15 minutes more sleep at the start, and the other sleep would be better."
"Fair enough."
"Come over here and write on the whiteboard, "I will set the alarm 15 minutes earlier and get up and make and eat oats for breakfast. And sign it. And then everyone in the gym can see."

One week later he didn't need Metamucil anymore. He's a doctor, by the way. So this is not about knowledge - he knew what to do! - this is about habits. So I think that saying of DJ's is very astute: if they get breakfast right, then probably the rest of the day won't be awful.

This also follows the work of Coach Stevo of Habitry.com: find 1-2 small sustainable habits that will have an impact. It doesn't have to be a huge impact, just enough to make the person think, "I changed something, and I'm better... maybe I could change other things?"

There's a vid with DJ coaching the snatch, and he says, "This thing where they swing the bar out... I used to try to fix that, then I realised they'll do that with the empty bar, they won't do that with 60kg." Just by snatching a lot, without anyone poking at them, they figure things out. That had a big impact on me, that insight - it's one of those things that's obvious once someone else says it. Fix one or two things, and over time watch the other stuff just fall into place without your having to do anything else. I call it Lazy Coaching, but we could call it coaching minimalism.

Or maybe Easy Coaching. Fix one or two things, then sit back and let the other things fall into place over time.

If they get breakfast right, they'll probably get lunch and dinner right. If they get lunch right, they'll almost certainly get dinner right. Without my saying anything more.

• Quoting:

I think you're right, competitive lifters need some time grinding away. The disadvantage of any "minimum effective dose" approach is that if you do a meet, that might be the first time in your life you've ever felt that weight on your back or in your hands. I have actually had lifters miss their openers that way - they were physically quite capable of lifting it, but they freaked out. They went on to make that lift as a second, but it was a wasted attempt.

Now, these are all beginner lifters, in their first couple of years of lifting. What follows is just speculation, I want to be clear. I think it would be different for someone with decades of lifting. A newbie will panic, someone who's been doing it for years won't.

Say you get a guy with 12 months' lifting experience, and another with 10 years, both can squat 200kg. Both take three months off. The first guy has to basically start again from nothing, the second guy can start back just 20% down from where he was. It's that lifting experience. So I would say that the second guy can actually get more from an Easy Strength approach.

On the other hand, older lifters seem to detrain very quickly, and need to stay at a high percentage of their max to keep it up there. But those older lifters I've trained all started when they were older, I haven't trained 70 years who've been lifting since they were 20. And as I said above, I think that's a different thing.

But on the whole, no, I wouldn't recommend Easy Strength for a powerlifting meet.

• Kiwi5 Said:

Fairly lengthy. My gym's also my workplace with a bookshelf, and my workout time is my time to myself without kids or clients around, so I sit and read training books between sets. I didn't need to sit around for ten minutes between sets. I wasn't trying to make it quick.

I don't time anyone on workouts in my gym, except that at 6 o'clock I'm going in for dinner, and at 9 o'clock the gym closes unless you're really interesting to talk to.

Rest until you're ready to go again. Most people in my gym rest much longer than they need to, the gym is their coffee shop, there's lots of chatting. That's okay, it's a community. They develop body and soul together. They take 1.5-2hr to do a workout they could do in 1hr.

• Old Miler Said:

I think this is right. Either squat, or deadlift. Though obviously as Miler says, you might do some of other movements as a warmup, I think you do have to choose which to focus on for those 6 weeks. I didn't even try to deadlift after squatting 180. Of course, that wasn't a "sorta max", so in fact I might really have gained 5-10kg on the squat, not 15. It wasn't this year so that's just my memory of it looking back.

Athletic Club East Strength in numbers

Edited by Kyle Aaron on 10-28-18 08:07 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

10-29-18 04:09 AM - Post#872779    

Stevo made a great point to me: when you are trying to form a new habit...go smaller.

Make it so easy it is laughable. I know tinyhabits says the same thing, but it really helped me.

Kyle...this has been just great, thank you. I would suggest you round this up into an article. All the heavy lifting has been done for an article (pun alert)...great stuff.

Daniel John Just handing down what I was handed down... Make a Difference. Live. Love. Laugh. Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude) Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk. Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth. Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights. Reread great books. Say thank you

10-29-18 04:31 AM - Post#872780    

Damn, so that's two articles I have to write, now? This will cut into my PS4 time.

Athletic Club East Strength in numbers

10-29-18 06:13 AM - Post#872783    

This has been a very helpful and well-timed discussion.

I just finished installing my home gym and I was already looking forward to a run of EES but felt unsure how to include squats.

Serendipity.

10-29-18 08:04 AM - Post#872786    

Thanks again for being so generous with your knowledge and time, Kyle. As always, your responses are very helpful.

Be strong. Be in shape. Be a man among men, regardless of your age or circumstances.

10-29-18 09:35 PM - Post#872814    

Please stop speaking as though I know what I'm talking about, haha. I'm just a guy with a garage gym and a couple of dozen people floating in and out. I share my narrow experience only.

Athletic Club East Strength in numbers

10-30-18 04:48 AM - Post#872834    

One of the secrets of life is that no one knows what they're talking about. ;)

Your response was helpful to me and others, it seems, so thank you for sharing your experience.

This, too, shall pass

10-30-18 08:57 AM - Post#872838    

Yes, as others have said, thank you Kyle. Your notebooks are an absolute goldmine, sir. This is exactly what I was hoping to find when I posted this thread. Now I just to re-read it all until it passes through my thick skull.

10-30-18 03:38 PM - Post#872851    

• Kyle Aaron Said:

Hey, just write instead of reading for 10 minutes between sets ;-)

11-01-18 01:15 PM - Post#872945    

I've found four days a week to be the sweet spot for me for Easy Strength. Five days didn't seem to gain me anything more, and I could have used that time for something else. Three days definitely dropped off the improvement, but if my aerobic volume is high, that's necessary. Right now I train four days, when I run it again in the spring, I will do three days.

Squat Success on Even Easier Strength?
12-25-18 04:25 AM - Post#875648    

Great thread, thanks Kyle, some great stuff here. Simple insight is always the best.

'You can throw in the towel or use it to wipe the sweat off your face and keep going' 'Well ain't this place a geographical oddity? Two weeks from everywhere.' Ulysses Everett McGill

Edited by Volumiza on 12-25-18 04:26 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

01-05-19 11:15 PM - Post#876075    

I may have discovered the Soviet secrets here guys...

This is my first week of the 40 day program. I’m doing the “for dummies” version of “3 sets of 3. Add weight”.

What I’m doing different this time is greatly overestimating my “2nd or 3rd set” weights. Or so I thought.

So I’ve done a cycle of greyskull, then madcow, which morphed into my own custom heavy/light/medium setup.

I ended up with my heavy day being 2x5 at 225 for the squat.
I had to get pretty amped up for that, and I was wiped out for most of the next week.

I just completed my fourth workout this week. 3@135,3@185,3@225. This is more reps at that weight than I did in my HLM program, yet I feel I honestly could do it again tonight, much less tomorrow.

I.e. If I do that weight 5 times per week, that’s 15 reps compared to just 10 on my HLM program.

Also excellent results on my struggling bench. I did 3 at 155 today and thought it was too easy. Previous best was 2x5 at 155.

Good stuff Dan. Although I’m afraid that if the first week is going this good, I’ll probably need to stop it next week. :grimace:

02-06-19 05:40 PM - Post#877792    

Earlier it was asked, why limit the food advice?

This article answers why: one specific step at a time.

https://www.otpbooks.com/john-berardi-coaching -compliance

Athletic Club East Strength in numbers

02-11-19 09:07 AM - Post#878000    

Will be doing Kyle's style of ES.

Deadlift, Dumbells CnP, Pull Ups

4-5 times a week.
Maybe one day will consist just out of a fun workout with friends (CURLS, Bench, Squats).

Changing to oats as a breakfast will be the biggest change, I'm more of a bulletproof coffee guy.

02-11-19 06:23 PM - Post#878038    

Good luck, Kilban.

I've now added: screens off by 2130.

Athletic Club East Strength in numbers

04-04-19 11:02 PM - Post#880596    

One of the things about walking more is seeing parts of your neighbourhood you wouldn't otherwise. Trees and houses and little shops you never knew about, and of course meeting strangers, who always smile at children, at least the mature adults who aren't magnetically attached to their phones. Nobody smiles and says hello from their car.

Today we walked from our home to my son's school 3.5km away, and from there along the railway trail to a station 5km further on. Outside the train station they'd put a piano with an invitation for anyone to play. A couple of young women sat to play for a bit before their train, and they played well. Then my daughter had a go.

Going for long walks gives you moments of unexpected beauty. Long walks are good for your heart in more than just one way.

For a while I've been telling gym members they need to do 10,000 steps a day. Interestingly, they seem more likely to do it if I put it down in their programmes, compared to if I just say it. I suppose I'll have to give new members a handout. "Eat breakfast. Go for a walk." Etc.

Athletic Club East Strength in numbers

04-05-19 02:21 AM - Post#880599    

• Kyle Aaron Said:

I used to know this! I’ve often thought my life spriralled a little when I stopped training but I also realised that I stopped long distance hiking too. Very little can fill your ‘soul cup’ like a long walk!

'You can throw in the towel or use it to wipe the sweat off your face and keep going' 'Well ain't this place a geographical oddity? Two weeks from everywhere.' Ulysses Everett McGill

04-05-19 02:42 AM - Post#880601    

Then you know what to do.

Athletic Club East Strength in numbers

03-02-20 11:13 AM - Post#894998    

I had good success using easy strength to increase my front squat then my back squat. My all time back squat was 440 lbs. Went down to about 385 lbs over course of 5 years. When I started easy strength and pushed it back up to 455. Only did light clean or snatch high pulls in that time frame. Tried to get gains on pressing at the same time but it did not budge those numbers any. I followed a template very closely to what was already listed in this thread.

03-02-20 04:26 PM - Post#895014    

I have had success increasing my front squats on the program as written. As my strength increased I might do the same working weight and do pause reps before increasing weight. I have run it with back squats and had some success but I would occasionally do an extra set. I feel like it is critical that the hinge doesn’t overlap too much when you use ES to make a run at squats. I also like to put off rest days until about 14 days in, then my body really appreciates the rest. Next cycle I plan on trying pistols with conventional deadlift.

07-27-20 04:50 AM - Post#900731    

People may have different views on how much of a squat it is but I got up to five reps at bw on the RFESS using EES over the spring.

04-25-21 03:40 AM - Post#909865    

A couple of years on, maybe some other people have tried this. Any reports?

Athletic Club East Strength in numbers

05-31-21 05:23 AM - Post#910774    

Squat success:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CPhnQPVgWcT/

Athletic Club East Strength in numbers

06-26-22 03:55 AM - Post#920104    

I just finished up a round of Easy Strength with a focus on increasing the back squat and bench press, two exercises that I know don’t always work well on this program. The last time I did easy strength, my numbers went up a lot on the deadlift, and a bit on bench and squat. In that regard, I was successful, but I noticed a few things that were in line with some of the other things that have been pointed out here, which I’ll summarize below.

Goals for this period:
1. Get stronger. This was the ultimate goal. I wanted to move more weight in the power lifts and loaded carries while feeling comfortable doing so. I had strained my back a while back due to not being tight during a 20 min set of long cycle clean and jerks (2 x 24 kg), so I felt it was time to start light and build back up. Overall, I did succeed, but not as much across the board as I would have hoped.
2. Reduce some bodyweight. I started the program with my weight having crept up to about 178#, and I wanted to drop some weight, ideally down to about 165lbs. Partial success, down to about 172#.
3. Find a way to reasonably squeeze in some cardio work. This failed, especially as time went along.

Exercise Methodology:
1. For squat and bench press, add 10 lbs every week to the work sets (e.g. if the weight called for during a week was 175# for my sets of 2 x 5, the following week would be 185# for the 2 x 5. I know forced progression is kind of contrary to the spirit of easy strength, but I had a hunch that this might help to increase bench and squat. If I struggled with an increase, I
2. Strictly stick to the rule of 10s. Previously, when I’d done easy strength, I had sometimes gotten overzealous and added an extra set of 5 or a few other reps. My rule was if I felt good enough to do an extra set, I should add weight. I know this is just restating an easy strength axiom, but it was a point of emphasis.
3. On sub optimal days, I would maintain the desired working weight. For example, if the weight called for 2 x 5 at 185# but I didn’t feel good, I would do 3 x 3 or 5,3,2 or 5 x 2, or 10 singles if I needed to.
4. Exercise selection was as follows: bench press (2 x 5), back squat (2 x 5), deadlift (2 x 5), farmer carry (100 ish steps, generally broken into two sets) , KB swing (50 reps), ab wheel (1 x 10) and some sort of row variation (1 x 15, loads were generally very light as a practice of the movement).
5. If I had energy, I would do 30 minutes of some sort of easy cardio (row, run, swim), never to interfere with the lifts. Occasionally would go for a walk.
6. I know the guidance is to vary the loaded carries, but I kept focusing on heavy farmer walks and heavy zercher carries.
7. Mobility work consisted of Limber 11, some other Joe DeFranco stuff, the occasional hanging from a bar and extra foam rolling.

Nutrition Methodology
1. 6 days a week, I would eat only protein, veggies, and fruit. Standard food routine was like this:
Morning: 2 scoops of protein upon rising
Lunch: 6 boiled eggs, either 1-2 oz beef jerky or some center cut bacon, a cup of raw veggies, and a cup of fruit.
Snack: 1 oz of cheese and maybe a cup of fruit.
Dinner: Some sort of lean protein (fish, chicken, or beef), and about 1-2 cup of cooked veggies.
Pre-bedtime: 2 scoops of protein, zma, fish oil, fiber.
2. Daily macros were around 1900-2000 calories with around 200 g protein, 50 g carbs, 100 g fat. This was throughout the week.
3. Once a week, I would cheat. Everything was on the table with no restrictions. The only rule was that I tried to eat at least 200 g of protein. Average cheat day meal was around 5000 calories.

Results:
1. Squat: 155 lb -> 215 lb for my working sets. Was very happy with this increase. Squats felt great, and I probably could have gone higher. This weight obviously is not equivalent to “my heaviest warmup set”, but it doesn’t feel like I’m straining too hard. Previous easy strength iteration had my squat go from 135-185.
2. Bench: 155 lb -> 185 lb for working sets. Not nearly as much of an increase as I would have liked, but still went up. Previous iteration of easy strength had my bench go from 135-185 for my work sets. Later on I started to get some pain in my shoulder, which impacted my bench performance.
3. Deadlift: 225 lb -> 255 lb for working sets. Disappointing increase, since the last time I went up from 225-295 for my work sets. Could never get that feeling where I just felt like I could lift a horse.
4. Farmer Carry: 70 lb in each hand -> 100 lb in each hand.

Insights:
1. Forced progression works for back squat. Increasing squat weight requires practicing the tension you feel from having to squat a heavy weight. To summarize, in order to squat heavy, you have to practice squatting heavy.
2. The same logic applies for bench press.
3. Hand position for back squat can make a big difference in how your shoulders feel. I had a very narrow grip for my back squat, and as the weight went up, my shoulders started to feel more wonky. I need to widen the grip on the bar, which will change my form.
4. I started off only doing one set of farmer carries, and later on, added a second set of farmer carries. I think this had a hugely positive impact. My traps got bigger, shoulders got bigger, forearms got bigger, and I felt stronger. Definitely adding this to the repertoire.
5. As the weights get heavier, be careful about the hidden volume of warmup sets. When I first started on squat, I would have a warmup set of 5 with the bar, 5 reps with 95 lb, and 5 with 135 lb. As the weight increased, I originally would just add sets of 5 reps, but if you add up the volume, if your working weight is 205 lb, sets of 5 at 45, 95, 135, 155, 185 mean I’m doing 25 reps before I even get to my work sets. So I started using larger weight jumps and then using triples, doubles, or even singles as I went through my warmup weights.
6. As others have noticed in their experience, I also ended up with one or two lifts going up a lot (squat and farmer carry in this case), one that sort of went up (bench), and one that didn’t really go up (deadlift).
7. A corollary to the previous point, from my two iterations of easy strength, the lifts that went up a lot were the ones I focused on a lot. My first iteration, I focused a lot on deadlift, and it went up a lot. This iteration, I focused a lot on squat, and it went up a lot.
8. As an add on to the previous point and an agreement with what others have said, if I wanted to focus on squat, I should have done a deadlift variation that I’m not used to doing (thick bar or snatch grip). The same goes for if I had chosen the conventional deadlift, I should pick a squat variation where I’m just exploring the movement.
9. I ended this experiment a little more beaten up than I would have liked. I pulled a calf during an easy run (though I think that might have been my running shoes being waayyyyyyyy past the replacement point (they were falling apart and not providing the support required). The shoulder issues have been mentioned here as well.
10. I think I approached this program with a bit more of a bus bench mentality than a park bench mentality. Maybe that was necessary for the squat, but I don’t think the forced progression can last much longer without a deload. Ideally, I think maybe a 4 week progression followed by a deload might be a way to program it if I was to do this again.
11. Batwings are a great rowing movement. They feel good. 2 sets of 20 holds at 40 lbs felt sufficient for me.
12. Looking back at this log and other logs have made me realize that I’ve been doing a lot of horizontal pressing and horizontal pulling over the past year while almost eschewing vertical pressing and pulling. I think it’s time to change over to vertical pulls and rows for a little while.
13. It worked best to lift during the weekdays and take both days off during the weekend. I noticed this during both times I’ve done easy strength. Normally I work best with a rotation of 2-3 training days followed by a day of rest, but on easy strength, I work best with 5 straight training days followed by 2 days off.
14. Having one big cheat day during the weekend definitely helped to recharge. It allowed for social eating if required and helped “refuel” me for the next week.
15. 50 swings is enough, especially when you’re going heavy. I generally used the 32 kg or 40 kg and did these at the end of workouts. I started with 75 since I had read some older guidance stating 75, but reduced it to 50. Then afterwards I found the updated guidance stating as much.
16. Fat gripz allow for the bar to not hurt your arms as much during zercher carries.

What’s next:
I’m going to take a week off and then I think I’m going to do Dan John’s Post Deployment program. It’s been over a year since I came back from my last one, but I think there are little aches and pains and some residual effects from my last one that I’m hoping the post deployment program can address. I have been addressing mobility issues a bit, but I think I need to do more and I like the emphasis on them in the program. I also think 3 days a week will allow for better recovery. Let’s see how it goes.

06-28-22 03:43 AM - Post#920155    

Love these write ups. Did you stick to the 60-80% of max thing? Or did you go over on the 532s for example as you were trying to push the squat and bench.

06-28-22 01:15 PM - Post#920168    

The weight I started with was right around the 65% of the training max I was using for both bench and squat, and then increased the weight weekly from there. I felt stronger than that, but that was the training max I was using on my previous program and I hadn’t tested a heavy double or anything.

I used the 5-3-2s only early on in the program. I pushed the deadlift to a comfortable 315 early on for a double, but otherwise I just kept at the 2 x 5s the whole time.

06-28-22 05:59 PM - Post#920181    

Thanks. Been re-reading some threads on ES and the variations about how to progress whilst keeping on the right side of easy, without having to rely on "feel", which for me at least is the path to the dark side (boredom/programme creep/doing more/going too heavy and missing/doing other stuff), so this was insightful.

Rather than stick to the suggested 80%1RM ceiling, I'm trying to link reps to percentages - so sets of five are 60-70%, sets of three 70-80%, sets of two 80-90% and an odd single at 90+. Some of us need progress and/or the odd heavy double to maintain interest I guess.

Increase I'm trying to limit increases much more, to 1kg per week with biscuit plates. Ultimately I think what I need for this to work is to accept is this is a programme for forever and forget doing anything else, well til I can't lift anymore.

12-13-22 08:29 AM - Post#923795    

It's a good program that you just started but unfortunately, I didn’t know any monstrous Easy Strength squatters. Even though I also wanted to just start but don’t know how to take the first step or where to begin.

Squat Success on Even Easier Strength?
01-05-23 07:19 PM - Post#924167    

• Lamar Clark Said:

I doubt you ever will. Here it's useful to come back to my concept of the four levels, the 25% chunks of world record performances. Like, walking 5km in an hour is 20-25% of world record, and a middleweight woman or many squatting 60/80kg is 25%.

0-25% is just what many people are naturally even without working out, just living life. The healthy young ones who did some sport in the last couple of years will be closer to 25%, the older deconditioned ones more like 10%.

25-50% is what the young ones get to after 3-12 months of training, maybe longer if they're really untalented. But you basically don't get previously untrained people who can do a 50% 5km (under 25-30') or 120/180kg deadlift. So the 25-50% is where most train to.

Past 50% almost everyone is going to focus on just one quality. After all, 75% would be a guy deadlifting 240kg and running 5km in 17' or so. But that 50-75% zone is where some people will be for some sports. If you are a soccer player then a 35% squat will be plenty, but you probably want a better than 50% 5km run. If you're an NFL linebacker it'll be the other way around.

Above 75% is very specific indeed, and requires some combination of talent and many, many years of training.

You can think of how these 25% chunks tie in with DJ's Quadrants, which he talks about here. Pause and watch it, and then I'll come back to it later.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=718NRSzPUdY

Now, as for Easy Strength, or my version Accessible Strength. It most certainly does work for squats. However, ES/AS does not apply to everyone, it's for the middle. If your squat is 60kg, then you are firmly in the 0-25% band. You don't really have a "max" to get percentages from, you're a novice. It's like if you're 300lbs and haven't walked further than the distance from the fridge to the couch for two years, you don't need MAF, you just need to go for a walk around the block. The 60kg squatter doesn't need percentages, they just need to squat a few times a week and add weight to the bar on a regular basis.

Up in the 75-100% band, the person is close to their individual potential, and indeed to what humans are physiologically capable of. No generic programme is going to work for them. It'd be like trying to teach a PhD in a class of 30. They need individualised coaching to get that extra 1-2% here and there.

Easy or Accessible Strength, then, works for the people who are in the 25-50% band especially, and those in the 50-75% band, too, though not as well.

Now, how this ties in with DJ's quadrants:



Quadrant I doesn't need E/AS. They just do stuff, they're learning skills.

Quadrant II is talented kids with lots of qualities. They need sports-specific coaching.

Quadrant III is few qualities at a low level - let's say, 25-50% of world record. This is where E/AS comes in, and MAF numbers and all that.

Quadrant IV is also sports-specific coaching. They're well above 75% in some specific quality, most of us will never get there.

The presentation mistake DJ made here was calling them "quadrants". That's useful in a taxonomy sense, but it implies to some readers that there are equal numbers of people in both - thus his lengthy explanation in the video that there aren't.

It's more like a flowchart. Quadrant I is the base, we all have childhood PE. Some then branch off into II or IV, most of us just go along in III - and the IIs and IVs eventually join the rest of us back in III. Others fall off along the way into Quadrant 0 - being sedentary. Don't do that.

E/AS are useful for people in Quadrant III. There might be people who've coached IVs and IIs who think differently, but I don't work with them. Accessible Strength, MAF etc will work for people in the 25-50 and 50-75% bands of performance, Quadrant III. That's all I'd personally claim.

Most of the Western world is sedentary. The ones who are active all want to be IIs and IVs, but if you're over 18 and had the potential, someone found you already, so you're III instead.

And of course every trainer or coach wants to talk about the IIs and IVs they've trained. But there just aren't many of them. I've had over 300 people in 1:1 trainer, I can count on a hand or two those who went much above 50% in any lift. You can read that as me being incompetent as a trainer, or you can consider the time and effort and focus it takes for a person who was previously sedentary to get there. But the IIs and IVs are where the glory is, nobody is asking a Quadrant III coach to write for Men's Health. Still, that's where we make a difference in people's lives.

Athletic Club East Strength in numbers

Edited by Kyle Aaron on 01-05-23 07:24 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.