Looking for a basic resource about rep ranges for a friend -
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Display Name Post: Looking for a basic resource about rep ranges for a friend        (Topic#33834)
aussieluke
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Total Posts: 4810
03-16-15 11:00 PM - Post#820543    



A guy at work just mentioned that he was at the gym last night and couldn't get on the cable machine because some other guy was doing loads of sets of 10 on two machines over and over again, and that he didn't think you were meant to do more than a couple of sets, and that he didn't really know how to use the cable machine anyway... and that he thought sets of 5 were better but he didn't know how many to do etc...

Rather than try and tell him not to use machines anyway and confuse things even more and put him off, I just thought I would try and send him a link to a good explanation of the differences between low reps - high reps (1-3 reps, 4-6 reps, 8-12 reps etc) strength training, hypertrophy training, just 'getting pumped' and so on...


I thought I'd be able to find one easily but there is a whole lot of bro-science out there and obviously everyone is making everything much more complicated. He doesn't need or want to know about RDLs, SLDLs, high bar, low bar, power cleans and hang snatches and so on.

Thinking I might have to even find a Tmag or even Mens Health article or something.


Its only when trying to look through the eyes of a total beginner that you realise how complicated and confusing everything is!

Any ideas appreciated, thanks.
Log


 
gummiadler
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Total Posts: 327
Re: Looking for a basic resource about rep ranges for a friend
03-17-15 06:08 AM - Post#820550    



Here are a couple of things from my notes. I have no idea if this helps

Supertraining
Strength:
  • Load (% of 1RM):80-90
  • Reps per set:3-5
  • Sets per exercise:4-7
  • Rest between sets (mins):2-6
  • Duration (seconds per set):5-10
  • Speed per rep (% of max):60-100
  • Training sessions per week:3-6

Power:
  • Load (% of 1RM):45–60
  • Reps per set:1-5
  • Sets per exercise:3-5
  • Rest between sets (mins):2-6
  • Duration (seconds per set):4-8
  • Speed per rep (% of max):90-100
  • Training sessions per week:3-6

Hypertrophy:
  • Load (% of 1RM):60–80
  • Reps per set:6-12
  • Sets per exercise:4-8
  • Rest between sets (mins):2-5
  • Duration (seconds per set):20-60
  • Speed per rep (% of max):60-90
  • Training sessions per week:5-7

Endurance:
  • Load (% of 1RM):40–60
  • Reps per set:13–60
  • Sets per exercise:2–4
  • Rest between sets (mins):1–2
  • Duration (seconds per set):80–150
  • Speed per rep (% of max):60–80
  • Training sessions per week:8–14

Speed:
  • Load (% of 1RM):30
  • Reps per set:1–5
  • Sets per exercise:3–5
  • Rest between sets (mins):2–5
  • Duration (seconds per set):20–40
  • Speed per rep (% of max):100
  • Training sessions per week:3–6


Prilepin's Charts



Dan John's Realistic Reps Video: Link

Edited by gummiadler on 03-17-15 06:09 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
Dave S.
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Total Posts: 101
03-17-15 08:40 AM - Post#820556    



Based on the research (or lack thereof) between 3 and 20 reps have been shown to work equally well. But typically closer to the middle of that range, or even the low end, is used. I think Rip wrote that 5 reps is best because, according to research, beginners' form starts to break down when they go much above that. And 5 is a low enough number to both allow more weight to be used, and high enough to allow ample practice of the movement. IMHO, % of 1RM is meaningless to beginners. Just tell them that the last rep should be somewhat hard but not to failure.
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist. Madmen in authority, who hear voices in the air, are distilling their frenzy from some academic scribbler of a few years back”
― John Maynard Keynes


 
Dan John
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Total Posts: 11321
03-17-15 10:01 AM - Post#820562    



Can we sticky that? That is impressive, thank you.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
Dan John
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Total Posts: 11321
Looking for a basic resource about rep ranges for a friend
03-17-15 10:03 AM - Post#820563    



This is also interesting...

1426600980-Delorme_and_Mr ._Britain.pdf

   Attachment

Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
ledfistaco
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Total Posts: 760
03-17-15 10:05 AM - Post#820564    



In one image, an ok summary:



Less Hercules, more Achilles.



 
Dan John
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Total Posts: 11321
03-17-15 10:07 AM - Post#820566    



And, since working isn't an option at this moment:

At the same time Hack was corresponding with Cerutty, Dr. Thomas DeLorme and Dr. Arthur Watkins were working with both polio patients and the injured soldiers of WWII. In 1945, DeLorme wrote a paper, "Restoration of muscle power by heavy-resistance exercises," published in the Journal of Bone and Joint Surgery.

In 300 cases, he found "splendid response in muscle hypertrophy and power, together with symptomatic relief," by following this method of 7-10 sets of 10 reps per set for a total of 70-100 repetitions each workout. The weight would start off light for the first set and then get progressively heavier until a 10RM load was achieved. Over time, things changed in terms of volume. By 1948 and 1951, the authors noted:

"Further experience has shown this figure to be too high and that in most cases a total of 20 to 30 repetitions is far more satisfactory. Fewer repetitions permit exercise with heavier muscle loads, thereby yielding greater and more rapid muscle hypertrophy."

A series of articles and books followed where they recommend 3 sets of 10 reps using a progressively heavier weight in the following manner:
Set #1 - 50% of 10 repetition maximum
Set #2 - 75% of 10 repetition maximum
Set #3 - 100% of 10 repetition maximum

In this scheme, only the last set is performed to the limit. The first two sets can be considered warm-ups. In their 1951 book, Progressive Resistance Exercise, DeLorme & Watkins state: "By advocating three sets of exercise of 10 repetitions per set, the likelihood that other combinations might be just as effective is not overlooked… Incredible as it may seem, many athletes have developed great power and yet have never employed more than five repetitions in a single exercise." I love that last line.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
aussieluke
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Total Posts: 4810
03-17-15 11:15 AM - Post#820575    



This is all great thanks!

Maybe I'll point him in the direction of the DeLorme 10-5-10 and suggest he apply that to a bunch of machine 'lifts'.

In fact Dan I think you might have even discussed this on a recent podcast...? (For beginners / older newbies maybe)

Either The Fitcast or Strength Matters. Now I'll have to listen again... Again!
Log


 
aussieluke
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Total Posts: 4810
03-17-15 11:17 AM - Post#820576    



Also The charts above are great, thank you!
Log


 
Vaughan
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Total Posts: 230
04-25-15 09:48 AM - Post#822429    



I'm pointing all beginners or near-beginners towards Greg Nuckols' Art/Science of Lifting e-books (in fact, I should do a review). As the man behind strengtheory.com everything he says is backed by masses of references, but its distilled down to two and three page chapters of the 'this is what you need to know' type. The one on rep ranges is typically clear.

Also, he's allergic to bullshit. His blog on high vs low-bar squatting ('for 98% of you it doesn't make a difference, stop thinking about it') is an admirable summation. The two books are nearly $50 though...
Like my Daddy used to say--'if worse comes to worst, we're screwed'. Steven Wright


 
AndyMcL
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Total Posts: 51
06-09-15 11:01 AM - Post#824110    



Vaughan,

I've really liked Greg's articles over at StrengthTheory, and considered buying the book. However, the $50 price tag gave me pause. Would you recommend the purchase? Seems like a lot for an e-book, but I spent $40 on Easy Strength and it was worth every penny.
https://coach-andy.squarespace.com/blog


 
Vaughan
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Total Posts: 230
Looking for a basic resource about rep ranges for a friend
07-18-15 01:03 PM - Post#825511    



Sorry Andy, just seen this. Having read it a couple of times I think so (thgh I got it at discount), more for 'Science' than 'Art'. Ther's a new edition coming out, which we automatically get for free, plus discount on the 'real' (non-E?) version later in the year. Loads of freebies alongside--Bulgarian programs and suchlike--and google hangouts, which I have no idea how to use.

You may know everything in it, but it's an excellent summary.

Might be better to wait for the 'real' version though? It's that sort of book--one to lend and keep referring to, like 'Never Let Go'

Edits to add: he did recently distribute a free e-book covering much of the same stuff as in 'science'. What I really want is a collection of his strengtheory articles
Like my Daddy used to say--'if worse comes to worst, we're screwed'. Steven Wright




Edited by Vaughan on 07-19-15 03:35 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
silverdan7
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Total Posts: 42
01-04-16 04:50 PM - Post#831455    



Those are awesome lists, and great conversations.

If I may add,

your friend sounds like he is just trying to exercise, get stronger and be healthy.

And sometimes, less info is more helpful for these folk.

I personally would give him the most basic info from above, omitting percentages and such, just the barebones exp. of maximal strength, power, hypertophy and endurance.

AND THEN explain two things
1) a good program hits all of these, either in different times of year, week, month or within the same workout.

2) some exercises are much better put at one end of the spectrum than the other. e.g.

"standing cable presses are awesome, but maybe not for doubles.

Just as Snatches are wonderful, but do sets of twenty for time, and you will have a lot of creaky shoulders and necks, as well as an overwhelming urge to spend 400 dollars on 80 dollars worth of Reebok workout equipment"
 
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