06-03-13 04:38 AM - Post#772752    

When front squatting I'm struggling to hold the bar using a Wrists bent, elbows high grip (clean grip?). I've tried a cross arms grip but it is not comfortable either. I can manage a clean grip with lighter weights but as the weight goes up I really struggle.

What can I do to improve wrist flexibility and get my elbows higher which should help?

Thanks,
Chris

"Ain't it a blessing to do what you wanna do.." Shawn Mullins

06-03-13 05:33 AM - Post#772754    

Don't hold the bar?

06-03-13 05:57 AM - Post#772755    

Use a Swiss bar?

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06-03-13 05:58 AM - Post#772756    

As in just push the elbows up so bar sits on the shoulders - I need to try that to see how it feels

"Ain't it a blessing to do what you wanna do.." Shawn Mullins

06-03-13 06:01 AM - Post#772758    

Sorry - what's a swiss bar? I'm thinking chocolate......

"Ain't it a blessing to do what you wanna do.." Shawn Mullins

Front Squat - holding the bar
06-03-13 06:08 AM - Post#772759    

Straps, my good man.

You have been selected for TERMINATION.

Edited by T-800 on 06-03-13 06:10 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

06-03-13 06:34 AM - Post#772760    

Straps in the mean time, but you just have to stretch out your wrists every day, all the time. Against a wall, a table, your steering wheel at a red light. Just keep doing it until the front rack is a non issue.

06-03-13 06:51 AM - Post#772762    

Also, for what it's worth: When front squatting I use just the tips of my index and middle fingers to keep the bar in place.

Or, as mentioned above, "zombie front squats" with your hands out in front.

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06-03-13 07:07 AM - Post#772764    

So stretch, stretch, stretch - try straps or zombies...

Thanks for all the suggestions, I'll try them out in the morning!

Chris

"Ain't it a blessing to do what you wanna do.." Shawn Mullins

06-03-13 08:21 AM - Post#772768    

I have a bad wrist, broke it and my forearm a few years ago and it still gives me some issues. So I use the arms crossed method of front squatting. Granted the clean grip is the better of the two methods but if you can't do the clean grip for whatever reason then the crossed arm style may be your best bet...worked for Mr. Draper

06-03-13 09:49 AM - Post#772771    

A Swiss bar is a fancy log bar. It is very wrist friendly for power hammer curls (or parallel grip power cleans) and using it for front squats is like using straps.

http://watsongym.co.uk/product/swiss-bar/ (UK)

http://www.flexcart.com/members/elitefts/defa ult.asp?m=CT&pid=2468& ;cid= (US)

Check out my critical-thinking blog at sharpenyouraxe.substack.com

06-03-13 10:54 AM - Post#772776    

Make sure the bar is high enough on your chest/against your throat and resting on your shoulders ...you should be supporting it with the bar in your fingertips, not holding it in your hands.

Log

Front Squat - holding the bar
06-03-13 11:34 AM - Post#772777    

I did fr.squats wrong for many years and I thought that wrist pains just where the price to pay for front squatting with a clean grip. The thing I did wrong was holding to narrow, with my wrists on the inside of my elbows. Then I read "Becoming a supple leopard" by Kelly Starrett and he adresses just that, and I moved my grip out with wrists on the outside of my elbows and now I've front squatted almost daily for a month and a half without ANY pain :)

Edited by Terje Johansen on 06-03-13 11:45 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

06-03-13 11:48 AM - Post#772779    

when I was doing Olympic Lifting... I learned to hold the bar in place mostly accross my collor bone and shoulders... my hands where there to direct the bar, not hold it.

I understand what you're going through, I have injuries in my elbows, shoulders and wrists... so finding a postion that did agrevate one these was a tuff and painful task.

Reality Sucks

06-03-13 12:50 PM - Post#772786    

Some good points above.

Be sure to keep a high chest when front squatting.

Drive into the bar.

Notice the picture T-800 posted, the mans shoulders are not pulled way back. If they are, you will find the bar uncomfortably close against your throat.

Now, I don't consider myself an expert on this, but here are two videos I put on youtube a while back, might be some points that will help you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FueF__FVjYo

Little tribute to Dan John on this second one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM93KD7Uodw

hope some of this helps...there are actually a lot of little tips on these two videos.

06-03-13 01:06 PM - Post#772787    

I struggled with wrist pain when I first started incorporating front squats. It's a little easier for me to get into a comfortable wrist position if I take the bar off of a rack rather than cleaning it into place.

Not sure what you're doing, but I at first I was always kind of supporting the bar with my hands more than I should have....bar needs to rest on your shoulders/clavicle area & use fingers/hands to just not let it roll forward if that makes sense. Probably an obvious thing to most, but it took a little pain for me to figure that out.

06-03-13 01:21 PM - Post#772791    

Some fantastic advice and I particularly got a lot out of watching the videos - thanks Walter!

I'm front squatting tomorrow (day 2 of the 40 day workout); before the session I'll get an empty bar and try some options. I managed 2 sets of 5 with 40kg on the bar today, and though it was shaky it was ok. I think it will get better with practice, especially I do some stretching for the shoulders.

I've only been on the forum a week or so and already I'm learning so much - thanks to all for the input. Just hope I can pay it back down the road....

"Ain't it a blessing to do what you wanna do.." Shawn Mullins

06-03-13 01:38 PM - Post#772797    

no problemo... all of the Olympic lifts I found had a serious painful learning curve LOLOL I guess thats why poeple get gold medals for this $h!#

Here's some pics that show what I'm talking about...

This one goes totaly against what I was coached to do...



This one is dam near perfect to me... and it really shows where the bar is resting. Notice how his shoulders are forced out, elbows are at the same elevation as his shoulders and the bar is resting on in between his collor bone and shoulders. This helps keep the bar stable...


The last one is of an Olympic Lifter... but I really posted it becasue it shows a chick screaming... (Insert Adult Sexual Comment Here)

Reality Sucks

06-03-13 01:41 PM - Post#772798    

It's great to see some pictures to describe what people are saying... and you can't beat a chick screaming (for the right reasons of course)....

"Ain't it a blessing to do what you wanna do.." Shawn Mullins

06-03-13 04:34 PM - Post#772813    

BigChrisW,

glad to help out!

That picture of the guy in the gray shirt with the green arrows superimposed over the bar, I don't see how anyone could front squat that way.

But I'm guessing that picture is taken out of context, it looks more like a guy getting set to do strict OH presses. And then the form is OK. He has his forearms vertical and elbows under the bar, which can set him up for a strong strict press.

However, if that is the case, I like to see the wrists not bent back quite so far.

Some will OH press from this position and some will OH press with the hands and/or elbows in closer. Sometimes, in this case with the OH press, it's good to vary the position every now and then or to experiment and see which is friendlier to YOUR shoulders, wrists and elbows.

No matter what and how you lift:

Since we become what we do, longevity is the name of the game: cause if ya can't do ya can't be.

06-03-13 05:13 PM - Post#772817    

if you can hold it okay with lighter weights and have a problem when it gets heavier ... I suggest your actual squat form may be the culprit not just your grip

I can barely hold it, just fingertips one hand (now 59) when warming up, but as it gets heavier, it sinks into place comfortably .... unless I loose form and lean too far forward coming up

maybe more heel would help

"We all overtrain" Pat Casey to George Frenn

06-03-13 05:56 PM - Post#772821    

Terry Gibbs,

Funny, isn't that, that some lifts just don't seem to work until we use just enough weight to force us into the proper position.

It's like too light a weight doesn't fire the CNS or something, so it's as if the body is going:

"What's this, what do you want me to do, I don't get it?"

But when the weight is heavy enough, the body says:

"Oh, OK, I get it! You want me to do THIS!"

I notice the same thing with bent-presses:

too light a weight and it does not feel right. Hit the right weight and everything just "sinks" in.

I recall going through that when I took my RKC in 2004, when learning the windmill. A light KB just made me feel weird. But when Dave Whitley suggested I grab a heavier KB than I thought I should use, my body "got it" and the windmill was simple to do.

+1 on the heel thing, especially if a person is not flexible in the ankles. I do them with aqua socks, but I'm pretty bendy in some areas for an older dude.

06-03-13 06:38 PM - Post#772823    

Good info.

My own experience is that some people think they need all fingers on the bar. Not true.

Try the thumb, index, and middle fingers. You also need to have them less on the bar than you think. A death grip is NOT IDEAL. The logic: if you need to let go and dump the weight, you want to do it quickly.

Experiment with a few fingers, less of each finger, and the overall distance between both hands. There is an ideal grip suited to you.

"The Earth has music for those who listen." Reginald Holmes "Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain "It's difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." Upton Sinclair

06-03-13 06:46 PM - Post#772824    

That first picture with the green arrow is Wil Fleming from his learn how to Jerk article. Not a Front Squat hand position demo.

I had trouble for a while, used crossed arms and then straps but now I'm ok with clean grip. An olympic lifting coach gave me a good drill. Get a broomstick, place it behind my head on the back of my neck, look up so te head holds it in place, placed my hands on the broomstick like a clean grip and forced my elbows up as high as a could. Repeat.

"A sunset fixes everything" www.activelifeandlive.wordpress.com

06-03-13 07:07 PM - Post#772826    

Two years ago when I discovered this forum I was a total newbie. I just couldn't get into what I thought was a front squat position. I thought my fingers or wrists would snap.

Then I did an Easy Strength cycle. I practised forty times in quick succession, not too heavy, thinking about form and not load. Funnily enough I quickly learned to relax, my wrists stopped hurting, and front squats feel easy and natural now.

Things that really helped:

1. Zombie squat: take a light (empty?) bar, clean, lift elbows up and just rest it on your deltoids. Stand on a wedge if you have to. Then cross your arms if you wish so each fingertip can hold the bar on the opposite shoulder. Squat there, learning to balance and rest the bar on your deltoids (you need to keep this light so you can get the bar down without worry). When you can do that, progress to arms out in front zombie style. When you learning to balance the bar, which in turn forces a good upright torso, you will realise the hands don't matter so much.

2. Having cracked that, clean, push elbows up, and practice keeping just two fingertips in contact with the bar. Your fingers are just a spring clip to hold the bar in place. They are NOT carrying it.

3. Learning to control it on the way down. At first I thought "if I only have fingertips there, how will I get the bar down?" so I would contort and suffer to try and grip it.

I lift from the floor so when I'm done I shrug the bar off, reach hands over fast and catch it in a kind of reverse clean (before it makes a big hole in the shed floor and upsets my wife). On occasion on heavier sets I have gone to crossed arms, then rolled it out into the crook of the elbows, then down. Now that I know I can do this with my max weight with no bad stuff happening, the worry goes away.

A couple of weeks practice on lighter weights will work wonders.

06-03-13 10:03 PM - Post#772851    

• Walter J. Said:

same

Peace ~ Bear

06-04-13 07:19 AM - Post#772871    

Tried various grips this morning and had most success by placing my hands a little wider apart and bringing my elbows in more, which seemed to assist them getting higher (due to rotation, as explained in Walters video).

Was also helped by using fingers as a support to the bar, as opposed to holding the bar.

Had great fun trying a zombie hold (arms outstretched, bar across delts). The girls on the stationary bikes were terrified......

Once again, thanks for all the advice

"Ain't it a blessing to do what you wanna do.." Shawn Mullins

06-04-13 09:37 AM - Post#772881    

• Quoting:

The difference between using a light weight and a heavy one. It's pretty much like they're anatomically two different movements. I know some people say your lifts should be identical with a light or a heavy weight, but that's not the way the body works.

Life's too short to worry about longevity.