bulch
Total Posts: 4276
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Quote:
bulch said:
I read in an interview Dave Draper said, he took steroids for a while and noticed a big improvement in gains but they dried up when he stopped. That's how i felt with these supplements.
sorry, it wasn't an interview. it was an article Dave had written.
My humblest appologies, bulch
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CombatWombat
Total Posts: 9
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Question:
If you only had 3 supplemets to take what would they be.
I ask because I have limited funds and want to get the most bang for the buck.
Edit: Currently I am taking a good Multi Vit. And 1000mg of Vit C. With a dash of Flax seed oil. The top 3 will be incorrporated into this.
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pointcove
Total Posts: 1136
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Multivit, flax seed ground, ZMA. My others are green tea, DHEA, milk thistle and a baby aspirin. This question was up a couple of months back for what it's worth.
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CombatWombat
Total Posts: 9
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Thanks,
I will check the old threads.(If I can ever get a handle on this search function.)
I understand the frustration. I get the same questions all the time on the time on my VW fourms.
BTW what is ZMA?
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AllYourStrength
Total Posts: 562
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Buffered C L-Glutamine Fish Oil 10K/day C 20 grams/day Glutamine 4gm/day EPA/DHA. Good thread, CombatW!
Jon Benson
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paul1
Total Posts: 30
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Allyourstrenght, I am sorry to ask this, but what is EPA/DHA, and what is good about fish oil?
I take c vitamin and l-glutamine (nobody sells peptide form yet?) and a multivitamin and of course I will soon add BB. :)
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AllYourStrength
Total Posts: 562
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Paul; Fish oil has too many benefits to list, ranging from heart health to hormonal balance. Here's a good link: http://www.pinc.com/healthnews/fishoils.htmlEPA/DHA are the two essential fatty acids in fish oil—docosahexaenoic acid and eicosahexaenoic acid. Jon
Jon Benson
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Anonymous
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AllYourStrength
Total Posts: 562
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Dan; Know you're kidding...but just IN CASE others don't... : )
Jon Benson
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Anonymous
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Actually, if I had to to take just 3 supplements, it would be Super Spectrim Multi's, Flax oil, and Glucosamine/Chondroitin.
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wayne
Total Posts: 718
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cod liveroil,dessicated liver w/brewers yeast,alfalfa
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Erkmax
Total Posts: 1259
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This is tough but easy as I'm often in the same boat money-wise. My pics are: Bomber Blend Creatine Body Ammo The Body Ammo has a HUGE effect on my joints. The creaking and popping goes away. --Eric
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Barbara J
Total Posts: 791
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Quote:
Erkmax said:
The Body Ammo has a HUGE effect on my joints. The creaking and popping goes away.
--Eric
Intersting, you say the creaking goes away? What is Body Ammo? I have been using glucosimine and essentially what Dan uses (in combination). I have very creaky knees.
Barb
| Eat like a caveman. Eat Real!
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mjolson
Total Posts: 1915
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I'm curious, too. My joints, especially my wrists and knuckles, sound like a bowl of rice krispies. They've been that way for some time, especially the knuckles, and I've noticed no pain, so while I've been paying them closer attention than usual (and it's a great party trick), I haven't been too concerned. The only joints that I've had actual pain-type trouble with are my shoulders, probably courtesy of too much benching with too little technique (I still haven't found the groove), and since I started doing rotator-cuff work that's pretty much gone away, thank goodness. As it is, the only two supplements that I have long-term experience with are whey protein isolate and multivitamins. I've recently added flax oil caplets, although when that runs out I'm probably going to switch over to ground flax seed -- for cost if nothing else. (I'm very much a newb when it comes to nutrition and supplementation; I'm also quite conservative. I figure that knowing little and doing little is safer than knowing little and doing much.)
--Matt Olson
"Defenceless, adj. Unable to attack."
- Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary |
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Erkmax
Total Posts: 1259
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The Body Ammo Joint Connection is sold here on IronOnline. Look under Dave's Favs. It has Chondroitin, Glucosomine, and MSM in it in huge amounts. I really notice whenever I run out of the stuff and my shoulders start to sound like the Fourth of July when I do incline dumbell flys. I have yet to have pain in them when they pop but I'm sure that will change if I don't strengthen them. I really warm them up too and that helps a lot. I personally prefer the orange flavor as I usually take it in the mornings before my workouts and it tastes like fizzy orange juice (the stuff is effervesant). --Eric
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Limey
Total Posts: 19
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Top 3 would be :- Dessicated & Defatted Liver Whey Glucosamine / Condroitin - Daz
| Obsession; A Word Used by the Lazy to Describe the Dedicated! |
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TKervin
Total Posts: 1976
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I take a multi vitamin (just because)- I have tried the following with no effect that I could notice- Glucosamine / Condroitin Creatine fish oil
Yours in Iron,
Tom
"....'cause she knowed he had a Mercury......" Steve Miller
"Your work is to discover your world and then with all your heart give yourself to it." Buddha
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DonB
Total Posts: 1196
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Quote:
TKervin said:
I take a multi vitamin (just because)-
I have tried the following with no effect that I could notice-
Glucosamine / Condroitin
Creatine
fish oil
Tom, the omega 3 fatty acids are important for many things. Whether you get your EFA's from fish oil, flax oil or flax seed is not important. What is important is you get them somewhere because you get very little from our commercial food supply.
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Laree
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If the Body Ammo is going to work for you, it works partly because it reduces inflammation in the joints, and that aspect of it works very quickly, within days. And the effervescent formula works the fastest -- whether it works the best or not, I'm not sure, but the fastest... yes, absolutely. What's cool about the effervescent is you can bunch up on it at the beginning, get the quick benefits, then back off and take it every other day to spread out the expense. Body Ammo is a form of glocosamine, chondroitan, MSM that's often used for some types of arthritis pain. Whether it will work completely depends on what's causing your joint pain in the first place. For instance, I took it for while with no results for elbow pain that I was certain was arthritis. Didn't work... turns out my constant elbow pain was coming from adhesions in the lower triceps (spasmodic lumps of muscle) and went away miraculously with aggressive, painful massage. Which I did on myself... for free.
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ArtH
Total Posts: 804
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Only three ! That's tough but here goes: 1). Mulit Vitamin 2). Energreens ( ass't grasses etc. to improve Ph balance) 3). Whey protein Art H.
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oldschooliron
Total Posts: 172
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Dave's Bomber Blend
Amino Naturals
Liver Tabs
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AllYourStrength
Total Posts: 562
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Quote:
TKervin said:
I take a multi vitamin (just because)-
I have tried the following with no effect that I could notice-
Glucosamine / Condroitin
Creatine
fish oil
Very few people experience no effects from creatine. You may be one of those that needs to load up on 20 grams per day for 5 days and then go to 5 grams, all with a slight bit of glucose (like grape juice), in-between meals.
Fish oil is no somethign you feel...it's something that prevents you from feeling the pain of the surgeon's knife! ; )
Jon Benson
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AllYourStrength
Total Posts: 562
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Quote:
donb said:
Tom, the omega 3 fatty acids are important for many things. Whether you get your EFA's from fish oil, flax oil or flax seed is not important. What is important is you get them somewhere because you get very little from our commercial food supply.
Respectfully, there is a difference. ALA must convert to EPA and DHA. In many people, this conversion process is hampered. I'm all for flax, but fish oil cuts to the chase.
Jon
Jon Benson
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DonB
Total Posts: 1196
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Quote:
AllYourStrength said:
Respectfully, there is a difference. ALA must convert to EPA and DHA. In many people, this conversion process is hampered. I'm all for flax, but fish oil cuts to the chase.
Yes, but realistically very few people have this problem. I think it's more common for people to have adverse reaction to the cyanogenic glycosides in flax seed. Regardless, if I had any doubt, I'd spring for the AA/EPA ratio test. Anything to avoid the nasty, disgusting taste of fish oil. One burp was all it took for me :-)
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Anonymous
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I was taking Carlson's flavored fish oil, that didn't get it for me.
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MikeHz
Total Posts: 323
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Multi-vitamin/mineral Protein powder Flax seed
"Walking is the best possible exercise. Habituate yourself to walk very far."
Thomas Jefferson |
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AllYourStrength
Total Posts: 562
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Carlson's is excellent. And, I think more people have this problem than you may realize, as fatty acid metabolism has been screwed up since we introduced low-fat baby forumla. (Big DUUUHH on that one!) Oh, and belching up the taste is actually a sign of afore-mentioned problems with fat metabolism. It goes away in a few days...week tops. Both is the best answer!
Jon Benson
Nutrition and Fitness Lifecoach
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DonB
Total Posts: 1196
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I know it can be an issue Jon. In fact, I've posted caveats about this very problem to IOL as recently as within the last month and at least as far back as two years ago. I just don't believe it's all that prevalent. Do you have any stats that indicate it is?
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pointcove
Total Posts: 1136
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I think the advantages to ground flax seeds are taste and the additional fiber. I mean it really tastes good and beats taking all that fish oil. The fiber has to be a positive thing, too. I look forward to a tasty, morning thick shake made with ground flax seeds, low carb milk and nutrasweet.
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ccrow
Total Posts: 10055
Signature: The most important test a lifter has to pass
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old hand
Bio: No Bio
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If you're going to take fish oil, and I do, I can't see what advantage Carlson's oil has over caps. Like any oil, you are going to have a hell of a time keeping it from going rancid in the bottle. I have serious doubts about its stability when it is transported and stored without refrigeration, too. This is a problem with flax oil too. But with flax oil, the number of caps I'd need per day is prohibitive; I'd need about 28 a day. With fish oil, I need 6. Consumer Reports and others have found the quality of the oil in most of the caps to be good. The cheap stuff at Costco (Kirkland's) is very good stuff. The only thing I wish the caps had is the vitamin D in cod liver oil, much more info on this is on the Weston Price web site. One thing I wonder about, though - with fish oil you wind up taking much less omega-3's than you do with flax. Do you want more total o-3's just to balance the inevitable o-6's? So far I hedge, I take a serving of flax once a day plus 6-8 fish oil caps.
The most important test a lifter has to pass
is the test of time.
-Jon Cole
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Chris McClinch
Total Posts: 8538
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I take 3-4 servings of flax a day (ground seed, not oil), along with 6 caps of fish oil. My basic rule of thumb is one tablespoon of oil (2 of ground seed) per 50 pounds of body weight.
The more I eat and the heavier I train, the better my genetics get.
If you're not paraplegic and not squatting, please kick your own ass for me."
"Do you really think that the reason most guys don't have big arms is purely because of a lack of doing curls?" --Alwyn Cosgrove
"There is only one gram of carbs in STFD and no carbs at all in STFU." --Byron Chandler
"Use meaningful loads to achieve results." --Big Vic
http://www.stoneagefitnessconcepts.com |
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Anonymous
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The thought that caps are not capable of being rancid, is specious at best.
Carlson's is the best, period. Costco is thought to be good because of the rapid turnover at it's facilities. Consumer's Report didn't even venture into the high end products like Carlson's. Under any circumstance, capsules are not a bargain compared to bulk.
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ccrow
Total Posts: 10055
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old hand
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Dan, have you heard anything bad about Costco / Kirkland's? If Consumer Reports found no rancidity in the cheap stuff, why buy the expensive stuff? Carlsons: 40 spoons at 1.3g EPA/DHA is 52g for $19 Costco: 300 caps at 300mg EPA/DHA is 90g for $7 (on sale for $5 right now!)
The most important test a lifter has to pass
is the test of time.
-Jon Cole
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CombatWombat
Total Posts: 9
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Wow thanks everybody.
I have noticed a trend here. Looks like Fish oil and Flax oil are (dare I say it) about the same. Alot of people are using joint formulas. I didn't see much in the way of Creatine. Hmm... I would have thought it would be huge.
So I am making a trip to a couple stores and I am picking up some mre Flax seed oil.(Good Qulity). Looks like I will trying some Joint meds. I've got a nagging grind and pop in my left shoulder and elbow.
Does anyone have any recomendations on a Creatine supplement? Or do may of you not even use it. Could it be it is more of a sporadic use thing. Just to get out of rut?
I can't tell you all how cool this is to get some good replys for the newb.
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Anonymous
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Dave Maurice said that I should leave capsules be, no matter what brand.
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auggie
Total Posts: 48
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Top Three Supplements: Whey Protein EFA's 1:1 Ratio SuperSpectrum (no iron), Also: Time released C (7000mgs), Glucosamine, MSM (6000mgs), olive leaf (natural anti-biotic) and echineasia/goldenseal
| There ain't no rules around here. We're trying to
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AllYourStrength
Total Posts: 562
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Quote:
donb said:
I know it can be an issue Jon. In fact, I've posted caveats about this very problem to IOL as recently as within the last month and at least as far back as two years ago. I just don't believe it's all that prevalent. Do you have any stats that indicate it is?
I was hoping for the "....cause." argument to stand, but...: )
Attached is a report 'from' the supporters of flax (which I, of course, support as well.) They note the 'flaws' in the study. However, the flaw IN their flaw is quite simple—we need FAR more EPA/DHA than you can obtain from flax to see the anti-inflammatory responses required to lower heart disease risk.
I've been talking with a friend of mine who is doing some work with Dr. Barry Sears of ZONE fame. Sears is really into DHA/EPA in large dosages. He's not the only one.
For general health and taste to protein drinks, flax is great. For lowering CRP, LP(a) and other nasties, good dosages of fish oil is far superior.
Jon Benson
Nutrition and Fitness Lifecoach
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AllYourStrength
Total Posts: 562
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Carlson's and Designs For Health are the only two companies I trust for fish oil in this country...if anyone knows of another brand, please pass it by me. Mr. Carlson is a man of integrity. That goes a long way in my book.
Jon Benson
Nutrition and Fitness Lifecoach
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Anonymous
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Jon, would you say that a practice of using both flax or maybe Udo's stuff, and Carlson's would be a good plan?
Flax in my protein drink, and fish in the evening.
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Chris McClinch
Total Posts: 8538
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That's how I do it: flax in protein or on salad; fish before bed.
The more I eat and the heavier I train, the better my genetics get.
If you're not paraplegic and not squatting, please kick your own ass for me."
"Do you really think that the reason most guys don't have big arms is purely because of a lack of doing curls?" --Alwyn Cosgrove
"There is only one gram of carbs in STFD and no carbs at all in STFU." --Byron Chandler
"Use meaningful loads to achieve results." --Big Vic
http://www.stoneagefitnessconcepts.com |
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DonB
Total Posts: 1196
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Thanks for the report Jon. What it demonstrates - to me - is fish oil is clearly beneficial in resolving an EFA deficiency. This is something that isn't gonna happen in 4 weeks, no matter what you take. It may require several months and a gallon of flax oil to achieve such a resolution. Does this mean I'll start using fish oil? No. After the length of time I've been using flax, I certainly have no deficiency. At a cost of dollars a day for pharmaceutical fish oils vs. pennies a day for a comparable amount of w3 oils from flax seed, I don't see the economics in it especially when LNA can be converted to EPA at a rate of 2.7%. Once the deficiency is cured, the body can make 5400 mg of EPA.
While I have tremendous respect for Sears, I defer to Udo and his treatise when it comes to EFA's. It may be dated but to my knowledge, it's not outdated. I also look with some skepticism at those who feel the need to change his conventions and call alpha-linolenic acid ALA rather than LNA. I'm not saying Udo is correct in all things fat; I'm just saying that I consider him to be :-)
Udo says that EPA and DHA can easily be manufactured by healthy cells from LNA. Degenerative conditions may impair our ability to to to make DHA and EPA for the same reason that these degenerative conditions may impair ability to make the long-chain w-6 fatty acids. In certain populations and a few individuals, EPA and DHA can overcome the effects of mutations that have destroyed the ability of their cells to convert LNA to DHA and EPA. Populations affected may include West Coast North American natives, Inuit, Oriental, Norwegian and Welsh-Irish - people who traditionally lived along cold water coasts and included fish as a staple in their diets. The number of people affected is likely to be less than 2% of the population, and certainly less than 10%, but the individuals affected would require a dietary source of EPA and DHA. You can derive a variety of take home messages from this information but in my way of thinking, I prefer to stick with the flax.
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Anonymous
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All right, I bagged some Udo's and Carlson's. My plan is to use the Udo's in my Bomber Blend blender bomb instead of the walnuts I've been using. Any suggestions on starting and ultimate goal amounts to use? I'm 6'4" and 242.
What about the fish oil, that will be my evening treat?
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ccrow
Total Posts: 10055
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old hand
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Dan, I think it comes out pretty simple, a tablespoon of each a day. Udo talks about 2% - 2.5% of your daily calories from o-3s, I'd round that off to a tablespoon of the Udo's choice at your weight. (You're going to get some more from the fish oil so why not round down.) Sears recommends at least 3g EPA-DHA per day, a tablespoon is 3.9g, that ought to do it even for a big guy. I find the oil keeps much better in the freezer than the fridge. I don't put it in the blender, I blend my shake first then mix the oil in with the spoon, I suspect this not be necessary but why not.
The most important test a lifter has to pass
is the test of time.
-Jon Cole
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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I took a swig of the Carlson's last night, and put some Udo's in my drink this morning. So far, so good.
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pointcove
Total Posts: 1136
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I take green tea and flax seed on a daily basis and intended to stop them weeks before I had surgery. I went in last week for a preop evaluation and the surgeon, a friend of mine, decided to operate the next day, Friday. It was a very minor vein stripping for varicose veins on both legs. I jumped at the chance to do it on a Friday and get it over with and dismissed the consequences of the supplements I take. The surgery went well, but I bled more than I should have later. They were going to let me go home when they noticed the wraps on my legs saturated with blood. I tribute the bleeding to the anticoagulant (anticlotting) effects of flax and green tea. I mean the supplements tout the blood thinning aspects and I should have listened. It is actually a beneficial thing to prevent heart attacks and strokes, unless you are having surgery. Remember to stop any supplements that have anticoagulant effects 2 weeks before your operation. Green tea, flax and aspirin are the ones that come to mind. By the way, I'm fine sitting here with my legs propped up and will take off from work this week to give them some rest.
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Hockey Hooligan
Total Posts: 590
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Doesn't sound too fun at all! A good warning to all though.
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ccrow
Total Posts: 10055
Signature: The most important test a lifter has to pass
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old hand
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I figure vitamin C, E, and garlic should probably be added to the list. I wonder if there is a point at which the anticoagulant effect can be too much for day to day, that is, a risk if you're in an accident or something.
The most important test a lifter has to pass
is the test of time.
-Jon Cole
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Gregthebody
Total Posts: 2949
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When I had surgery I had to discontinue my 1 daily aspirin for 5 days. The MD never mentioned any supplements,
Greg
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pointcove
Total Posts: 1136
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Quote:
Gregthebody said:
When I had surgery I had to discontinue my 1 daily aspirin for 5 days. The MD never mentioned any supplements,
Greg
Greg, that is the main reason I brought it up. I don't think many realize that a lot of the supplements affect blood clotting like it happened with me.
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