12-12-04 12:24 PM - Post#57851    

[This is a compilation of several threads on hormonal issues for archival purposes.]

I got a note from Georgie this morning with a question about testosterone in women, specifically the lab results numbers I noted in the Ageless Growth thread that was incomplete. It's an important issue to many of us since we're aging and since most of us know next to nothing about hormone testing.

Testosterone is measured as total testosterone, and then broken into free testosterone and bioavailable testosterone. The references ranges for women are then broken down into premenopausal and postmenopausal, and further into with or without estrogen therapy, as the hormones are inter-related and hopefully in a healthy balance.

Hormones are made in several glands, which also makes it hard to pinpoint a problem. In my case, a daily low DHEA supplementation (.25mg) has made a tremendous difference in bringing down excessive adrenaline rushes, also connected to my messed up estrogen/testosterone ratio.

When you get lab tests back, you'll be given "in range" numbers, along with "out of range" numbers and reference numbers. Apparently labs sometimes differ in range-number treatment, so it's important to use your specific lab's guidance.

Here are a couple of links to get you started on your research. Maybe we should make an IOL push to get some bloodwork in January after things settle down!

Testosterone lab test overview pages

Hormone reference ranges

Male hormone reference material from Life Extension

Testosterone in women

Female hormone reference material from Life Extension

Re: Hormone testing
12-12-04 03:25 PM - Post#57852    

Just got mine done. I'm now waiting for the results.

It don't matter

Re: Hormone testing
12-12-04 05:43 PM - Post#57853    

How much does it cost with the lab work and all, I have health insurance, but I don't know how much of the lab work it will cover.
Me and my lifting partner were talking about doing this just the other day.

Re: Hormone testing
12-12-04 06:34 PM - Post#57854    

At 44 and steadily working out the past 3 years, this is of concern to me. The thread about Ageless Growth has me curious and I intend to do more research into it.
I very much need to get my bloodwork in for the basics and get a general physical. I cant recall the last time I had this done...

Dave

Re: Hormone testing
12-15-04 01:39 PM - Post#57855    

We talked about this before -- maybe someone else has the link to online hormone testing labs?

It isn't allowed in California and a few other states -- New York, maybe? -- but in most states you can have the lab work ordered by hormone testing operations and go to your local lab to get the blood drawn and sent to them.

I know Tom Incledon does this type of thing (a few here have gotten his help on this), but I don't know the cost. There are other places, too, and I remember links... if anyone can help...

http://www.thomasincledon.com/

Female Hormone Issues
05-18-05 02:38 PM - Post#104697    

AB asked me a question a couple of weeks ago that took me so long to get back to her, I'm sure she'd forgotten even asking. It made me realize we should have a collection of easy hormone FAQs at out fingertips, so let's start making notes here.

Hormones begin dropping by around age 35, about 15 years before the average menopause, so it's really something for us all to be aware of. Things to look for include unusual moodiness, more difficult menstrual cycles, memory loss, depression, low sex drive, difficulty sleeping, weight gain (or failure of proven weight loss programs), low energy, anxiety, migraines... the list goes on, too. It's tough stuff.

Most GYN docs don't test for hormones at such young ages. You'll have to ask for hormone testing -- insist, maybe, depending on the doc, in which case it's time to search out a new doctor, and as long as you're doing that you may as well find a local hormone specialist rather than the OB doc you're probably seeing out of habit. At any rate, a hormone panel is the place to start because it may spell out the answers and eliminate some of the trial and error that makes up hormone balancing.

Not that you won't have your share of that, though. Hormones work together in the body, and bumping one up effects another. Bodyfat effects hormones, as does exercise and stress. That's good, because the healthier you get the more stable your hormones, but it still takes a lot of tweaking to get things right. Worse yet, our natural hormone levels continue changing throughout our lives, so what's fixed this year won't necessarily stay fixed. Offsetting that, once you've been through the process, you'll have a good idea what's going on and can tweak as you go along. Remember, this is as individual as it gets; what works for you won't work for your sister or your mother without personalized adjustments.

For that reason, if you decide to optomize your hormones, test one hormone at a time and leave all others stable. This takes a couple of months per trial, and that may include increasing or decreasing that hormone for another couple of months, so seriously, just balancing estogen could take six months to a year, before you start on progesterone, for instance. That's one reason for getting the blood panel done first so you start with the hormone that's the most out of balance.

Another way to get started is to determine the biggest physical complaint and start with the hormone most likely to address it. A woman who had a healthy sex drive and finds it gone should go directly to testosterone first (a whole 'nother bucket of worms, mentioning testosterone to women, who have mostly been brought up to think of it as the bad side of macho). On the other hand, increasing depression for no apparent reason is an indicator of low estrogen and often a low dose of estrogen will bump a woman right back to normal, while at the same time offering other benefits.

Now, all this is assuming the rest of your life is in order. If your marriage is falling apart, your kids are in trouble, your job's on the line and there's never enough money in the bank, forget about hormones and address the life problems first, because no amount of hormone intake will fix what ails you.

Unless, of course, your life problems are a direct result of your increasing moodiness and nobody can get along with you, in which case a dose of estrogen will fix you up by tomorrow.

Naturally there's much controversy over hormone replacement. One that's sure to come up is the study that was discontinued a couple of years ago, however there were particular elements to that study that should be mentioned: The hormones used were synthetic ingredients made from mare's urine. If the tests were done using natural hormones, most researchers believe the outcome would have been different. The lesson to that story is to make sure the doc prescribes natural hormones.

A brief overview to get us started:

Estrogen
Depression, moodiness, memory loss, low energy, migraines, PMS, sleep problems, poor sex drive, vaginal dryness, skin tone, premature aging

Progesterone
Anxiety, migraines, PMS, osteoporosis, sleep problems

Pregnenolone
PMS, memory loss, depression, low energy

Testosterone
Poor sex drive, lack of muscle or difficulty gaining muscle, osteoporosis, excess weight, skin tone, premature aging

DHEA
Depression, memory loss, low energy, excess weight, poor sex drive, premature aging, lack of muscle or difficulty gaining muscle

Thyroid
Lack of energy, PMS, premature aging, fuzzy thinking, excess weight

Melatonin
Sleep problems, memory loss, osteoporosis, premature aging

HGH (Human Growth hormone)
Lack of muscle or difficulty gaining muscle, anxiety, low energy, excess weight, osteoporosis, memory loss, sleep problems, depression, skin tone, premature aging

Re: Female Hormone Issues
05-18-05 02:44 PM - Post#104698    

Thanks Laree:-)

Obsessed is a word the lazy use to describe the dedicated!!!

Re: Female Hormone Issues
05-18-05 02:46 PM - Post#104699    

Better late than never?

I still don't know if I answered your question, though.

Re: Female Hormone Issues
05-18-05 03:03 PM - Post#104700    

Yes you did answer it......that sums it up really good..:-)

Obsessed is a word the lazy use to describe the dedicated!!!

Re: Female Hormone Issues
05-19-05 02:22 AM - Post#104701    

Thanx Laree
Subeer

Life's a rock 'n roll Means you keep rocking and rolling, no matter what, no matter how much; while people feel that you have to smash into the rocks and roll into a ditch...

Re: Female Hormone Issues
05-19-05 12:05 PM - Post#104702    

Life Extension has covered the men's hormone issues completely in this link Don B posted:

http://www.lef.org/protocols/prtcl-130.shtml

Hormone Replacement Study
02-01-06 01:56 PM - Post#181705    

Some of you will remember a conversation we had when a major women's hormone replacement study was halted and hundreds of thousands of women went off their estrogen prescriptions. At the time, a few of us said the study itself was flawed. Here's the latest thinking, which fits our scenario.

http://www.worldhealth.net/p/study-says-pivotal-hormone-therapy-trial-was-flawed-2006-01-25.html

Re: Hormone Replacement Study
02-02-06 10:06 PM - Post#181706    

Thanks for the link.

Menopause and Hormones, Taking Another Look
07-11-07 09:33 PM - Post#322774    

So, did you see the news about the flawed interpretation of the Women's Health Initiative, that study of estrogen and progestin that was halted a few years ago due to increases in heart attacks among the participants?

Sales of estrogen dropped 30% after the the 2002 announcement, which more or less means about 30% of women who would have had menopause symptom relief and/or heart and bone protection canceled out after hearing the errant news.

Apparently women who begin taking estrogen at a younger age (say, 50 instead of 60 and above) do indeed gain heart protection from the hormones. It was the women who began at older ages who had increased heart issues from estrogen.

Here's the Wall Street Journal report on How NIH Misread the Hormone Study in 2002.

07-11-07 10:30 PM - Post#322807    

Wasn't that mostly all about Premarin?

07-12-07 01:06 AM - Post#322855    

Those health studies will drive you crazy, or worse as in this case, the way one study says this at a certain point in time and another says just the opposite a few years later on the very same subject matter! That's pretty sad!!

Age: 59

07-12-07 07:42 AM - Post#322894    

There was a thread here a few weeks ago about the overall value of medical studies. In addition to experimenter bias and general incompetence, we now have to worry about flawed interpretations as well.

08-16-07 12:31 PM - Post#338129    

Re-bump de bump: Bioidentical hormones: estrogen is good. No, it's bad. No, it's good.(The SkepDoc)

08-17-07 01:32 PM - Post#338615    

This is a very touchy and emotional subject for us horse people. Though, I sit here sweating out a hot flash, I still couldn't bring myself to use a controversial product like Premarin. I bet people wouldn't use it if it was extracted from cats and dogs. Horses were the back bone to this nation. What a kick in the tail. Read on:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/default.aspx?id=3995076&p1=0

Menopause and Hormones, Taking Another Look
08-17-07 01:46 PM - Post#338626    

Judy was scared off estrogen by the breast cancer risk.

Be strong. Be in shape. Be a man among men, regardless of your age or circumstances.

Menopause and Hormones, Taking Another Look
08-17-07 01:59 PM - Post#338631    

Yo, Lynn! I'm glad this brought you out of the woodwork. :~)

PS: As a woman who used to take bio-identical hormones, I'm one of those who didn't know anything about Premarin -- never really thought about how the mare's urine came to be, er, collected, and then what happened to the foals then or the mares later.

Re: Menopause and Hormones, Taking Another Look
08-18-07 02:21 PM - Post#338996    

Unfortunately, due to previous C surgery, my better half was placed on Prem for 25 years, and all it got her was 2 incidents of B-C. With all her scars, she is still the best thing that happened to me. Don't let anyone talk you into taking prem.
There are other alternatives.

It's not just football. It's Steeler football.

08-22-07 08:12 AM - Post#340430    

Hi Laree,

I've come out of the woodwork again to share this tidbit with you:
http://fathappens.com/news/view_n6a6fd0012e 43c77526b9eaff10297368/
It's about time some thought was given to this subject. I'm not opposed to taking a low dose of HRT & am still waiting to hear from my Dr about my levels and candidacy for HRT. Just no horse piss pills! Have a great day.

Menopause and Hormones, Taking Another Look
08-22-07 12:04 PM - Post#340500    

"Menopause can make you fat"

Yeah, I heard that one. :~(

I took estrace for 10 years following a hysterectomy (full: took the ovaries in addition to the uterus), and took a low dose of testosterone for some of that time. Women who have no ovaries make little testosterone; small amounts of estrogen come from other places, testosterone next to zero. Came off a year ago. Holler if you have any questions, about the experience I mean... not the medical aspects of which I'm mostly clueless.

05-18-09 01:10 PM - Post#552929    

Here's a list of the thyroid blood tests and what they mean.

06-16-09 02:26 PM - Post#560370    

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31384724/ns/health -aging

Recent news

06-17-09 12:47 PM - Post#560668    

Snipped:

"The American Medical Association says there's no scientific proof to back up claims of anti-aging hormones."

Maybeso.. but people know how they feel, and they feel better on hormones if their own hormones are on the decline and if the hormonal balance is worked up patiently.

06-17-09 12:55 PM - Post#560671    

Suffice it to say that lots of professionals disagree with the AMA on this one.

http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/006293.html

jej

06-17-09 01:26 PM - Post#560675    

There are two totally different forces at work here. There are the fad of anti-aging clinics that are making unsubstantiated claims about hGH, prescribing hGH with test and usually hair plugs and fake tans to people who can't handle aging.

There are other doctors that are unusually committed to the health and well being of their patients and willing to sort out these extremely complex and mercurial issues to those ends.

How do you tell which you're dealing with? Look around in the waiting room, if there are a lot of old guys in tank tops, red light!

The most important test a lifter has to pass is the test of time. -Jon Cole

06-19-09 09:33 AM - Post#561138    

Umm who would you expect to be most concerned about aging... 20 year olds... or 50 year olds??? Maybe that why the waiting room is full of old guys... just a guess...

06-20-09 12:58 PM - Post#561428    

Did you guys see this one?

Past research shows that a high level of insulin, the hormone primarily secreted after eating, is related to low testosterone levels

http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/553310? sc=mwhn/.

Another important point in there is timing hormonal blood tests, ie morning results will be different from afternoon. At the very least, don't compare tests taken at opposite ends of the day.

06-15-10 11:31 AM - Post#629601    

From Merv via a different thread:

• AussieMerv Said:

06-15-10 12:31 PM - Post#629613    

Women wear patch's for E and other hormones as they age and body changing...

So, if a man is married (or not) to one that is in that situation...Is it going to be something that could change his levels also??? More E crossing the membranes when in hot embrace???

It is a wild card I know but one to be looked at if it is in your house hold...

Any thoughts on that one Laree?

Not personal but from your depth of knowledge, would be nice to read...

I just read where they are still going to use Mares (horse) for E...Sow would be better in my thoughts since the swine is closer than horse in other stuff, as in heart valve...

The cycle women body builders do has to be very important, to what lowers E and ups T...
I would think???

Gary

"I live, I lift, I ache, I am." - "I don't mean to be rude, but...junk is for jerks" "No pain, no gain' isn’t a nursery rhyme, and 'only the strong survive" ...Etc... Had to put in this quote... Current Quote "Eat better, train harder, be tougher, think surer and rest morer." ~ Draper Dave Draper **** Age 73 Semper Fi... GAB

Hormone testing -- Hormone Replacement
06-15-10 01:43 PM - Post#629625    

The situation with insulin is interesting...Many have messed up using it, and not needing it...

The old news has some interest for history sake of how things change and medical industry has flip flopped over the years...

Same with body building...Nothing new there...

If you look at what Arnold said to his friends to be able to beat them (bad info, the industry and sell, sell, sell) It is something that still happens daily at the health food stores selling supplements LOL...

So what is the real truth, well it is like all that sell a product and have a lack of ethics...

Medical industry is similar imho...Pills and more pills...

This is a good location to run it down...Rouges like Mike Mentzer is one view...Many others out there also...

I think it is good to compare at various times of the day/week etc...Gives you a complete picture, just how complicated it is...

Need to really read and read and read...Then you might be more confused if you are not a rational type...LOL

Gary

• Laree Said:

"I live, I lift, I ache, I am." - "I don't mean to be rude, but...junk is for jerks" "No pain, no gain' isn’t a nursery rhyme, and 'only the strong survive" ...Etc... Had to put in this quote... Current Quote "Eat better, train harder, be tougher, think surer and rest morer." ~ Draper Dave Draper **** Age 73 Semper Fi... GAB

06-16-10 10:22 AM - Post#629745    

Thought I would add this here...

GABA discussion and saliva for hormone testing...

http://www.davedraper.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?fid/4/tid/24490/pid/6 29740/post/629740/#629740

GAB

"I live, I lift, I ache, I am." - "I don't mean to be rude, but...junk is for jerks" "No pain, no gain' isn’t a nursery rhyme, and 'only the strong survive" ...Etc... Had to put in this quote... Current Quote "Eat better, train harder, be tougher, think surer and rest morer." ~ Draper Dave Draper **** Age 73 Semper Fi... GAB

06-20-10 12:04 PM - Post#630346    

The Cortisol level in ones body is another wild card...

It is one I have been reading on since this thread came up and others, dealing with t-e, and problems...

I believe if trying to really come up with the secret to the issue, is the female side of equasion and what they are doing to make the body over and how long they are able to exist (life span)...

To me they are the ones who should be called freaks and not the guys who just get a little bit bigger...

Makes them into a 3rd species almost When I see the end result of breeding horse to donkey and coming up with the Mule/Jenny, is where I am coming from, regarding that thought...Unable to reproduce

Women have been using hormones for years and years to regulate their systems...With doctors approval and research...Huge industry...

Time to do it for the male also...IMHO

Female has lagged in our society for various rights since time immemorial, but because of the emotional problems they go through monthly for so many years, the medical community has done the right thing for them...

Similar problem for males it seems in the latter years of life...Pretty obvious, to one who does any research on the subject...

Interesting to say the least...

Regards,
GAB

"I live, I lift, I ache, I am." - "I don't mean to be rude, but...junk is for jerks" "No pain, no gain' isn’t a nursery rhyme, and 'only the strong survive" ...Etc... Had to put in this quote... Current Quote "Eat better, train harder, be tougher, think surer and rest morer." ~ Draper Dave Draper **** Age 73 Semper Fi... GAB

06-20-10 01:18 PM - Post#630358    

Here is a culprit...Cortisol...

• Quoting:

Been mentioned on another thread...
GABA

• Quoting:

This one also...

• Quoting:

Something to think about...

Regards,
GAB-A for life...

"I live, I lift, I ache, I am." - "I don't mean to be rude, but...junk is for jerks" "No pain, no gain' isn’t a nursery rhyme, and 'only the strong survive" ...Etc... Had to put in this quote... Current Quote "Eat better, train harder, be tougher, think surer and rest morer." ~ Draper Dave Draper **** Age 73 Semper Fi... GAB

07-05-10 03:20 AM - Post#632757    

i advocate getting the body to work as it is designed to do.

we were all born with different hormone levels that are natural to us.

diet, exercise, stress, sleep, etc. all impact our health. once we get our bodies working the way they were designed, our hormone levels will adjust to what they were designed to be.

i have a naturally low testosterone level. when i look at all the telltale signs, i have always had a low testosterone level. (THANK GOD).

so i dont think it would be healthy for me to try to take testosterone to get me to the level of a guy who has naturally high levels. each of us was designed to operate with our own specific levels.

07-06-10 12:25 PM - Post#632983    

I have upper high T levels which sometimes makes me goofy. (nuts)

It don't matter

Hormone testing -- Hormone Replacement
07-07-10 06:57 AM - Post#633098    

• Quoting:

That is not true in general. Exercise can raise or lower cortisol. Adding light exercise for an untrained person may lower cortisol, but overtraining will surely raise it.

As for the rest of that post, GABA, melantonin, neurotransmitters - powerful stuff but you are tinkering with a delicately balanced system, unintended outcomes are a real possibility.

The most important test a lifter has to pass is the test of time. -Jon Cole

Edited by ccrow on 07-07-10 06:59 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

07-11-10 07:10 PM - Post#633837    

"I have upper high T levels which sometimes makes me goofy. (nuts)"

That doesn't mean you're a bad person cajinjohn!

07-11-10 07:42 PM - Post#633848    

Exercise can be a real tough, stressful situation...
I can remember the USMC basic training...I have a feeling some cortisol was in my system at times LOL
****
This is some late information that was posted by Don...
Has a lot to do with his problem, it would be similar for others I have a feeling...Tell your Dr. all, don't hold back...

Genetics and enviromental complications...

• Quoting:

"I live, I lift, I ache, I am." - "I don't mean to be rude, but...junk is for jerks" "No pain, no gain' isn’t a nursery rhyme, and 'only the strong survive" ...Etc... Had to put in this quote... Current Quote "Eat better, train harder, be tougher, think surer and rest morer." ~ Draper Dave Draper **** Age 73 Semper Fi... GAB

07-15-10 11:52 AM - Post#634681    

Went yesterday to LabCorp and had about 7 vials of blood drawn for testing Hormones etc...Do that every few years...

I belong to Kaiser and they don't always do the tests I want done...So it is an out of the pocket item...

Should get results in a few weeks...

Life Extension, is one I belong to, they have a lot of info about what should be tested now, as you age...Kaiser does not agree with them...No surprise there...

Gary

"I live, I lift, I ache, I am." - "I don't mean to be rude, but...junk is for jerks" "No pain, no gain' isn’t a nursery rhyme, and 'only the strong survive" ...Etc... Had to put in this quote... Current Quote "Eat better, train harder, be tougher, think surer and rest morer." ~ Draper Dave Draper **** Age 73 Semper Fi... GAB

12-28-11 01:59 PM - Post#717942    

bump

Just curious, are there any gentlemen here doing TRT ? I was recently diagnosed with low T by 2 urologists, and both want me to get pellets inserted. I'm not convinced that pellets are the way to go though. This can be very confusing and frustrating.

12-30-11 09:21 AM - Post#718092    

We've discussed TRT, but I don't remember any threads associated with pellets. Some of the guys have tried topical testosterone and two have done well with estrogen blockers / aromatase inhibitors. Those threads have been archived, so you can search them out if you'd like.

Be strong. Be in shape. Be a man among men, regardless of your age or circumstances.

01-07-12 07:11 PM - Post#719163    

Hi. Me again . Long time . A few years ago I came down with leukemic lymphoma and prostate cancer at the same time . Many of you here on IOL prayed for me . The lymphoma is gone . All normal .No treatment . I thought the prostate cancer was gone also , but the doctor said it came back. So, Lupron shots . Blocks testosterone big time . Causes weak bones , hair loss, strength goes south , belly fat and so on . I am lifting as much as I can to keep what I have left. I don't think I need the Lupron as my PSA is 0.1 - 0.2. Any advise for old Farmer Don? Just turned 74 .

01-08-12 12:42 PM - Post#719203    

Wow, you've been through the ringer, Don!

Will your doc set up regular PSA testing, maybe monthly for a while so you can try to wean off the Lupron and see how it goes? That seems like your most important issue, trying to get back some amount of testosterone... safely...

01-11-12 09:15 PM - Post#719772    

Scheduled for another PSA soon. Some of the side effects of Lupron have been going away I believe because of prayer. The doc. says the low PSA is due to the "great" effect of the treatment . The low hemoglobin actually improved (went up) today and I am no longer anemic. I am not sure how I can convince him and show proof that I am healed and don't need Lupron. We will see .

Thanks

01-11-12 09:32 PM - Post#719774    

All the best with this Don. I agree with Laree, you've had a rough time of it.

"Aging without intense opposition is forbidden" ~ DD My Training Log Year-end Challenge 07-12 "EVERY DAY IS A WHOLE BODY DAY" ~ DJ "EVERYTHING IS LIGHT AFTER LIFTING SEVERAL TONS OF IRON" ~ DD "The best way to never worry about getting into shape is to never get out of shape" ~ Zabo

08-22-13 10:05 AM - Post#780633    

If this question has been answered already I apologise:

My wife, who is 51, has rheumatoid arthritis and is going through menopause.

She is loosing her eyebrows [which were once very thick and dark]
She does not pluck them at all.

Is there any treatment that would help for this such as "Androforte" for women?

She already takes a battery of vitamins including ACE.
She takes meds for the artritis, but her doctors say they should not effect her eyebrows.

Any advice would be appreciated.
Thank you
Dan