04-01-08 01:03 PM - Post#427146    

I think there is a lot of confusion with stabilization. When someone says that, say, the rotator cuff muscles stabilize the shoulder joint during bench presses, they don't mean that they make you bench in a nice straight line. They aren't saying they are like the stabilizer on an airplane. They are said to be stabilizers of the shoulder joint because they hold the joint together - keep it from tearing itself apart - while the prime movers actually make the weight go up and down.

So if someone is doing squats on a swiss ball and telling you they are doing it to work on their stabilizers, just do me a favor and push them off. It's annoying.

Working on an unstable surface may (MAY) be of some use, but it seems to me it is mostly in training the neurological system to make corrections and maintain fluid movement.

Doing squats standing on a ball does not make squats a "FUNCTIONAL EXERCISE" squats on the floor are more already a functional exercise as long as you do them right, not some oddball esoteric mutation such as sissy squats.

Doing squats on a ball is not "EXTREME CORE TRAINING" you'll never generate any major tension standing on a ball, at least not for long.

Doing squats on a ball is not "WORKING TEH STABILIZER MUSCLES" either, although it may be working on an aspect of stabilization that seals and circus performers (and nobody else) needs.

So if you see someone squatting on a ball, just push them right off, and bounce the ball off their pointed head. I'm not joking now, really do that.

The most important test a lifter has to pass is the test of time. -Jon Cole

04-01-08 01:12 PM - Post#427152    

Not surprisingly (for anybody who has read my posts in the past you will know why), I give the above commentary two thumbs up!!!

"It is not an uncommon experience for people to talk and argue a great deal about something without anybody bothering to define precisely what it is." - Ross J.S. Hoffman I would like to see the truth clearly before it is too late. - Sartre We must begin by a definition, although definition involves a mental effort and therefore repels. - Hilaire Belloc

04-01-08 01:20 PM - Post#427159    

I do some work on a BOSU (BOth Sides Up) with the purpose of increasing stability and balance, and like it. I'd never stand on a stability ball, however.

BOSU looks like this:



I don't look like that doing it, however.

04-01-08 02:08 PM - Post#427186    

Wouldn't lunges improve stability and balance more - and provide actual muscular benefits - vs. standing on a ball/BOSU/et.al.?

"It is not an uncommon experience for people to talk and argue a great deal about something without anybody bothering to define precisely what it is." - Ross J.S. Hoffman I would like to see the truth clearly before it is too late. - Sartre We must begin by a definition, although definition involves a mental effort and therefore repels. - Hilaire Belloc

04-01-08 02:12 PM - Post#427190    

I agree with Byron

It's like when someone tells me they are working their core and do only crunches. I tell them you are only doing a 1/4 of the work for core and that is being generous.

There is a test (game) that was passed to me and it says that airforce pilots are being trained using the same method to test and improve their skills. The idea is to move around a mouse and not let any outside moving objects touch your mouse pointer. Now it says that pilots can do this "game" for over 2 min. They said if you last 18 sec it is considered exceptional. I lasted almost 21.578 sec. I work with a mouse every day, all day and sometimes on weekends so yeah, I'm good with a mouse. I don't think I could fly a plane.

Here's the link if interested.

Air Force Test

aka SAVAGE/JDIDAN/Dan the Protein Man You can't choose your parents however you can choose your lifestyle Earn your supplements The most important stack you can do are big plates.- Sweatn

04-01-08 02:13 PM - Post#427192    

How about lunges onto or off of the BOSU ball?
More and better wouldn't you say?

04-01-08 02:25 PM - Post#427200    

I've always thought yoga is a great way to improve balance and stability--from balance-specific poses to even the warriors, triangle, etc.

Kristy

www.cannonpowerworks.com

04-01-08 02:31 PM - Post#427205    

• Steve C Said:

The BOSU seems to do some things to wake up the ankle in particular that nothing else does, but you won't hear many trainers telling women they are working on their ankles. They'll "think this mainiac is trying to build a set of cankles on me" and stop payment on their check.

Couple reasons I love lunges. For one thing, they are just an excellent exercise; you can build a great deal of strength and muscle in the hips and thighs with lunges. On top of that, they let you get this work in without adding much to the lower back's dance card. This is a huge advantage, if you're low back has had all it can take from cleans, snatches, RDLs, and squats, but you still want more hip and thigh work, unilateral work fills the bill.

Also, lunges put you in a position that you wind up in all the time in sports. In fact, you wind up in a lunge-like position more than a squat-like position, probably. So it will develop this strength in a FUNCTIONAL manner, i.e., in a way similar to which it is expressed in real life - the nervous system learns to stabilize in this important position, the stabilizers gain strength specific to this position, etc.

Lunges also involve learning to dissipate some momentum and decelerate, if you're doing standard lunges or walking lunges. That is, the forward leg and hip has to deal with not only the weight but the weight in motion. This is valuable but in my opinion is not always appropriate if the base isn't there. For this reason I believe that reverse lunges, scissor squats, Bulgarian split squats, and step ups are more accessible before someone starts doing full on lunges.

The most important test a lifter has to pass is the test of time. -Jon Cole

04-01-08 02:31 PM - Post#427206    

I have found that learning to squat (body weight only) for 5 reps on a BOSU ball with the flat side up does seem to activate some muscles that then make squatting on a stable surface easier.

I've tried this myself and found it to be true. I had it explained to me but I don't remember what the explanation was.

/sk

04-01-08 02:33 PM - Post#427209    

• brucedl Said:

An outstanding way to wrench a knee.

"It is not an uncommon experience for people to talk and argue a great deal about something without anybody bothering to define precisely what it is." - Ross J.S. Hoffman I would like to see the truth clearly before it is too late. - Sartre We must begin by a definition, although definition involves a mental effort and therefore repels. - Hilaire Belloc

04-01-08 03:14 PM - Post#427228    

I do a variety of things on the BOSU -- barefoot, by the way -- and I do a variety of lunges and single-leg work on the floor. Lack of balance on my right side (the dominate side) was one of the eye-opening lessons from my past couple months of back-to-basics rehab work.

I literally fell down a few times from lack of balance on the right and lack of strength on the left when I switched to single-leg exercises.

I'd be willing to bet the majority of IOL readers would discover the same thing, but you won't see it as long as you do things with both legs together or even one leg after another, as in squatting with a bar, walking or taking the stairs.

As an example, my office is upstairs. I used to race up and down them, one leg then the other. Now I go up left leg leading, basically a bunch of left leg step-ups, and come down right leg leading in a bunch of right leg step-downs. It is hugely different, hopefully effective, and demonstrates how much imbalance is masked when doing things normally.

Why Stand On A Ball?
04-01-08 03:22 PM - Post#427237    

I love squats on the BOSU. Speed squats, sets of ten. Think surf board balance. I was very shaky at first but once I got the hang of them..........I highly recommend this exercise for stability and balance........flat side up......let a little air out at first to make it easier if you have trouble.

Yours in Iron, Tom "....'cause she knowed he had a Mercury......" Steve Miller "Your work is to discover your world and then with all your heart give yourself to it." Buddha

Edited by TKervin on 04-01-08 03:24 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

Why Stand On A Ball?
04-01-08 03:25 PM - Post#427240    

Lift for strength.

Do some off-road mountain biking for balance and cardio.

Do some one limb work for stability.

And now the gym will be free of the bouncy balls

(just picking on you ball lovers... )

"It is not an uncommon experience for people to talk and argue a great deal about something without anybody bothering to define precisely what it is." - Ross J.S. Hoffman I would like to see the truth clearly before it is too late. - Sartre We must begin by a definition, although definition involves a mental effort and therefore repels. - Hilaire Belloc

04-01-08 03:26 PM - Post#427241    

Cool stuff, say you had a friend who was right into the stability ball, and despite various attempts to get him right out of it, he still insists that its the way to go. Whats the best(simplest?) way of explaining that its not? what sort of evidence can you come back with to counter the "its hitting the stabilizers more" "its core training" etc? Hypothetically speaking of course

04-01-08 03:32 PM - Post#427247    

• Kristy Said:

based on my limited 1 class experience last night, I'd have to agree, Kristy. I was seriously balance and stability-challenged last night. i look forward to that improving over the next few weeks. altho i don't know if i'll ever be able to do that one-leg stand while holding the toe of the other foot stretched out pose. what is that? crane on crack?

BEAST MODE. NOW.

04-01-08 03:33 PM - Post#427249    

Yoga and Pilates both work stability and balance quite well without the danger.

"It is not an uncommon experience for people to talk and argue a great deal about something without anybody bothering to define precisely what it is." - Ross J.S. Hoffman I would like to see the truth clearly before it is too late. - Sartre We must begin by a definition, although definition involves a mental effort and therefore repels. - Hilaire Belloc

04-01-08 03:38 PM - Post#427257    

Barbell lunges, squats, DL, Clean&Press, ect, etc, etc are all core exercises IMO.

I do weighted situps because I can, not for any real reason.

04-01-08 03:39 PM - Post#427258    

• fraser Said:

Honestly, unless they are doing something dangerous (like squatting on a ball) just smile and say, "OK, whatever you say" and let them be.

There is an acquaintance at the gym. He stands on some sort of wood block that has, in the middle, a springy part...thus the wood rocks back and forth unless you balance it perfectly which nobody ever does. And he does a plate shoulder press...he has been using a 25 pound plate for the past 15 months....where he takes the plate and lifts it overhead. All the while he does this with his eyes closed....eyes closed while rocking back and forth, I can only assume he is practicing a combination of transcendental meditation and log rolling?

"It is not an uncommon experience for people to talk and argue a great deal about something without anybody bothering to define precisely what it is." - Ross J.S. Hoffman I would like to see the truth clearly before it is too late. - Sartre We must begin by a definition, although definition involves a mental effort and therefore repels. - Hilaire Belloc

04-01-08 03:41 PM - Post#427259    

• In reply to:

If he could chew gum at the same time, THEN I'd be impressed!

"I got it from my momma"

Why Stand On A Ball?
04-01-08 03:46 PM - Post#427261    

I know the Olympic Ski Team used or is using BOSU balls and all but, to me, it looks sorta like a gimmick to sell product!! Hey, it worked though, it's a hot item for sure!! ;>)

Age: 59

04-01-08 04:08 PM - Post#427271    

The Bosu Leg Raise is really friendly on my aging lower back.
CB

04-01-08 04:39 PM - Post#427282    

BOsu for some FOF for me.

FOF = feet on floor

I'd fall off for sure.

mcartworks.com Est. 1960

04-01-08 04:46 PM - Post#427285    

I tried doing crunches on a ball, and found I could do about a gazillion of them, so I figured it couldn't be very good for that. lol

Anything that requires coordination is beyond my capabilities, including yoga. I did a beginners yoga class once, and it was the hardest thing I have ever tried. I sweated like a pig, and about died trying to get into the positions. I guess I am an inflexible dude. hehehe

Start date 10-5-09: 215 lbs current weight: 187 lbs, 15 weeks in Goal: 175 lbs

04-01-08 04:50 PM - Post#427291    

• In reply to:

Can I be so bold as to say "most men are"? Or will that cause a big ruckus???? In all seriousness, from my experience at my gym, and, well, at home, men don't stretch and it bugs the $hit outta me! I don't know how anyone CAN'T stretch; it feels sooooo good!!!! And it is so good for you!!!! I can't go a day without stretching. Did I mention that I love to stretch?

"I got it from my momma"

04-01-08 04:52 PM - Post#427293    

I used to sit on a ball at work; that was my chair. People would try to sit on it and couldn't even do that; that's how bad some people's balance is. Sad.

"I got it from my momma"

04-01-08 04:54 PM - Post#427295    

• jordoll Said:

It won't cause a big ruckus but it is absolutely incorrect, at least with hip flexibility.

In cycling men are able to obtain a far more aerodynamic position due to greater hip flexibility vs. women.

As one who has never stretched in my life, I still (even after breaking my hip) have more hip flexibility than anybody I know.

"It is not an uncommon experience for people to talk and argue a great deal about something without anybody bothering to define precisely what it is." - Ross J.S. Hoffman I would like to see the truth clearly before it is too late. - Sartre We must begin by a definition, although definition involves a mental effort and therefore repels. - Hilaire Belloc

04-01-08 04:58 PM - Post#427296    

I would seriously like to know the number of men here that:
a.) consider themselves flexible (we'll make it easy: can you touch your toes w/o bending the knees?)
b.) stretch on a daily basis-full body

"I got it from my momma"

04-01-08 05:01 PM - Post#427298    

a) most times, depending upon back pain
b) after most workouts.

Still Lots to Learn ------------------------- ----------------- Life's short, take lots of pictures. ------------------------- ----------------- It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small. - Neil Armstrong

04-01-08 05:04 PM - Post#427299    

no and no

04-01-08 05:11 PM - Post#427303    

I don't stretch much at all. After I finish a workout, I either think about stretching and say (I don't think so!) or do a touch my toes kinda thang or squat ATG and stay in that position for 30 seconds or so. I always, however, hang as long as I can from a Parallel Grip Bar and let my vertebrae relax out. I also pick up a 15 or 20 lb. DB between my feet to get more stretch! I have no problem at all with flexibility though!! ;>)

Age: 59

Why Stand On A Ball?
04-01-08 05:15 PM - Post#427305    

• jordoll Said:

If I was a little more flexible, I might start stretching, but there's no point right now! lol

Start date 10-5-09: 215 lbs current weight: 187 lbs, 15 weeks in Goal: 175 lbs

Edited by gman on 04-01-08 05:15 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

04-01-08 05:17 PM - Post#427307    

I do plate pullovers on a stability ball. I like the squirming part the best.

For he today that sheds his blood with mine, shall forever be my brother.

04-01-08 05:24 PM - Post#427312    

• jordoll Said:

(A)yes but only because you made the test easy, I am still tight in a lot of places

(B)no, not daily whole body, but partial body at least 3 times a week, kicking and screaming the whole way.

I'd be interested in hearing the women's answers too...

The most important test a lifter has to pass is the test of time. -Jon Cole

04-01-08 05:26 PM - Post#427313    

• In reply to:

04-01-08 05:28 PM - Post#427315    

• jordoll Said:

a: I can touch my hands flat on the floor with my legs straight as an arrow.
b: Nope, I never stretch. I do however practice full range of motion weight training.

BTW, I never use those silly looking balls either:)

Cliff

04-01-08 05:29 PM - Post#427317    

• TomP Said:

Heavy Deadlifts from the floor while on a BOSU ball seems like it would be a great core exercise

Start date 10-5-09: 215 lbs current weight: 187 lbs, 15 weeks in Goal: 175 lbs

04-01-08 05:30 PM - Post#427318    

a) usually altho by other standards i'm so NOT flexible

b) never on a daily basis. i stretch when i feel tight or after a run

BEAST MODE. NOW.

04-01-08 05:31 PM - Post#427320    

• In reply to:

04-01-08 05:35 PM - Post#427322    

• Steve C Said:

Interesting, Steve! I didn't know that.

Why Stand On A Ball?
04-01-08 05:40 PM - Post#427324    

• Laree Said:

I don't know if men have greater hip flexibility or women do. I do know that men are able to get far more aerodynamic than women, as evidenced by Time Trial positioning, and stem/handlebar to saddle differentials for racing.

At 6' most male racers are able to have a lower stem/handlebar height than most 5'6" women racers. Hence they are riding more horizontally...and thus more aerodynamically.

Much of this has to do not only with flexibility but also with power in a flexible position. It is great to touch your toes (I can palm the floor standing on a 6" box), but can one pull weight from that position? In cycling there is your optimal aero position but also your optimal power position. FOr most they are drastically different. For those who can achieve power in an aero position, that is a huge advantage.

"It is not an uncommon experience for people to talk and argue a great deal about something without anybody bothering to define precisely what it is." - Ross J.S. Hoffman I would like to see the truth clearly before it is too late. - Sartre We must begin by a definition, although definition involves a mental effort and therefore repels. - Hilaire Belloc

Edited by Steve C on 04-01-08 05:41 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

04-01-08 07:42 PM - Post#427358    

I like MBT shoes, they are great for walking on all hard surfaces. Many 'forgotten' muscles are forced to work.

(MBT=massai barefoot technology)

pixie

Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.

04-01-08 08:15 PM - Post#427362    

• gman Said:

I have no idea who's joking any longer. But I will say this: Pushups off an upside down BOSU (flat side up) will leave an ordinary trainee shaking like a leaf. Core City.

04-01-08 08:30 PM - Post#427365    

• ccrow Said:

A. Yes
B. No, not daily whole body, but partial body every day, some days whole body.

04-01-08 08:38 PM - Post#427368    

• Laree Said:

Now that I could definitely see as having value.

"It is not an uncommon experience for people to talk and argue a great deal about something without anybody bothering to define precisely what it is." - Ross J.S. Hoffman I would like to see the truth clearly before it is too late. - Sartre We must begin by a definition, although definition involves a mental effort and therefore repels. - Hilaire Belloc

04-01-08 09:26 PM - Post#427384    

• Laree Said:

Those are tough, I have tried them. I also like doing pushups with my hands on a 3lb medicine ball.

Start date 10-5-09: 215 lbs current weight: 187 lbs, 15 weeks in Goal: 175 lbs

04-01-08 09:45 PM - Post#427395    

Luv ya Byron.

Nice legs-shame about the face

04-02-08 02:22 AM - Post#427427    

• In reply to:

steve it sounds like hes doing some kind of proprioreceptor training??


Proprioception (pronounced /ˌproʊpriːəˈsɛpʃən/ PRO-pree-o-SEP-shun); from Latin proprius, meaning "one's own" and perception) is the sense of the relative position of neighbouring parts of the body. Unlike the six exteroceptive senses (sight, taste, smell, touch, hearing, and balance) by which we perceive the outside world, and interoceptive senses, by which we perceive the pain and the stretching of internal organs, proprioception is a third distinct sensory modality that provides feedback solely on the status of the body internally. It is the sense that indicates whether the body is moving with required effort, as well as where the various parts of the body are located in relation to each other.


it was interesting in one of my classes last year as we covered this and had to do a few tests and I came to the conclusion that being older my proprioreception was not as good as some of the younger students. It may be something that needs training as well?? and will help also with overall balance - something to ponder.

some the tests included walking along a line on the ground with eyes closed, trying to stand on an uneven surface with eyes closed then doing various things with eyes closed and head tilted back like balancing on one leg etc

Jenny Life is like a hot bath. It feels good while you’re in it, but the longer you stay in, the more wrinkled you get facebook

04-02-08 07:05 AM - Post#427449    

I failed at one of those tests. It was called a field sobriety test. It cost me a lot of money, but it did get me to quit drinking.

04-02-08 08:33 AM - Post#427466    

Steve, that is amazing info, thanks.

a) no, however it may be a biomechanical thing? I can SLDL lower then without using weight. I do have a slight bend in the knee for SLDL however I tried it last night with legs completely straight and I was able to go lower than no weight. funny how this came up today.

b) more often, minimum once a week.

You should have done a poll Nancy, that would have been cool to see.

aka SAVAGE/JDIDAN/Dan the Protein Man You can't choose your parents however you can choose your lifestyle Earn your supplements The most important stack you can do are big plates.- Sweatn

04-02-08 11:08 AM - Post#427554    

• Jenny NZ Said:

Well I'll be. Thanks for this. I still like my explanation that he was performing a combination Transcendental Meditation / Log Rolling maneuver.

"It is not an uncommon experience for people to talk and argue a great deal about something without anybody bothering to define precisely what it is." - Ross J.S. Hoffman I would like to see the truth clearly before it is too late. - Sartre We must begin by a definition, although definition involves a mental effort and therefore repels. - Hilaire Belloc