01-29-07 06:05 PM - Post#260697    

Thanks for mentioning the therapeutic draw option, Laree. I'll have to check into that. Not being able to donate is hard - especially when they have the drives at work and I see the posters and get the emails.

** Betsy **

Raising HDL
02-28-07 12:02 PM - Post#269835    

The statistics on the benefit of lowering LDL (bad cholesterol) are sometimes ambiguous; but raising HDL (good cholesterol) seems to be a clear winner. If you get your HDL up to a certain level, heart disease is very rare - very high HDL is actually referred to as "longevity syndrome!"

Unfortunately there seems to be much less info on raising HDL than there is on lowering LDL. Came across this today:

• Mike Roussell Said:

Small improvements but worth noting. Niacin and some drugs may improve HDL too, but I'm not aware of anything that promises huge gains. If someone figures out a way to make bigger improvements, it will be big news...

Mike Roussell's web site is

http://www.muscleandcuts.com

The most important test a lifter has to pass is the test of time. -Jon Cole

Edited by ccrow on 02-28-07 12:03 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

Raising HDL
02-28-07 12:05 PM - Post#269839    

Wow, an excuse to dring, as if I needed one!

Thanks for the tips. I am trying niacin right now.

Not sure how much though, I am just doing 250mg once a day for a while.

My total is 129, but my hdl is only 32. Genetics truly suck!

some info says it's not effective unless you take 1500-2500mg per day.

Start date 10-5-09: 215 lbs current weight: 187 lbs, 15 weeks in Goal: 175 lbs

Edited by gman on 02-28-07 12:12 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

02-28-07 12:27 PM - Post#269850    

My HDL remained steady at 37 (was told it should be 40+) while I lost weight -- I wasn't drinking.

I read a similar report & it mentioned that for some folks 2 drinks was too much... not everyone reacts the same, but the standard recommendations seem to be excess-fat loss, plenty of exercise (roughly about 90 minutes per day, 5 or 6 days a week), & eating plenty of veggies (just like mom used to say... darn it).

2009 Motto: Thinking Positive, Being Positive "Start out easy & don't compete against anyone but yourself." -- Steve Reeves "...work up to the number of repetitions that you feel necessary to do the trick. Don't hold yourself down to any hidebound number of repetitions." -- George F. Jowett "Weight training is successful when you perservere." -- Mike Dayton

02-28-07 12:33 PM - Post#269852    

Yeah, I do all that stuff and it isn't helping one bit on the HDL. It has really helped my LDL and triglycerides though.

Just gotta keep on going though.

Start date 10-5-09: 215 lbs current weight: 187 lbs, 15 weeks in Goal: 175 lbs

02-28-07 12:52 PM - Post#269865    

I have heard the same thing - higher doses for niacin, and flushing gets to be a nuisance.

The most important test a lifter has to pass is the test of time. -Jon Cole

Raising HDL
02-28-07 12:54 PM - Post#269868    

Same here... I dropped LDL considerably & my triglycerides plummeted to very-decent levels, but my HDL remained the same.

If you figure out how to raise HDL, then please tell us... I'm interested too.

P.S.: I just remembered that one report I read stated that some folks have HDL in the 30's & that's fine for them (again, not all folks need the exact same thing as we're all wrapped-up in different packages)

2009 Motto: Thinking Positive, Being Positive "Start out easy & don't compete against anyone but yourself." -- Steve Reeves "...work up to the number of repetitions that you feel necessary to do the trick. Don't hold yourself down to any hidebound number of repetitions." -- George F. Jowett "Weight training is successful when you perservere." -- Mike Dayton

Edited by Marooned Mike on 02-28-07 12:57 PM. Reason for edit: spelling -- oops again

02-28-07 01:01 PM - Post#269876    

That's basically what my doc said. He said if my hdl were low, coupled with high triglycerides, then he would be worried.

Start date 10-5-09: 215 lbs current weight: 187 lbs, 15 weeks in Goal: 175 lbs

02-28-07 01:03 PM - Post#269878    

Here are some related links ...

http://www.postgradmed.com/issues/2000/12_00/saf eer.htm

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/reprint/354/4/417 .pdf

http://www.circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/104/ 2/e7

http://dr-razavi.blogspot.com/2006/12/new-hdl-raisi ng-medication-stopped.html

Doctors and pharmacos don't mind vitamins, as long as it's prescription

The most important test a lifter has to pass is the test of time. -Jon Cole

02-28-07 01:12 PM - Post#269885    

Interesting stuff cc

One thing I saw in the first link related to cutting fat too much.

I have drastically reduced all fat, including the healthy kinds, so that could be contributing to my low HDL.

Start date 10-5-09: 215 lbs current weight: 187 lbs, 15 weeks in Goal: 175 lbs

02-28-07 01:23 PM - Post#269890    

• gman Said:

Maybe its just me, but when I went from a junk diet with lots of junk fat to an extremely low fat diet, my HDL remained about the same. Low, but unchanged. BTW, when I added good fats back in my diet, my HDL remained about the same. There are plenty of other reasons to eat good fats. For me, this is not one of them.

jej

02-28-07 02:20 PM - Post#269914    

• ccrow Said:

Much higher doses -- and as Jeff will attest, when you get to the therapeutic levels (~2,500 mg), it's time for a doc to monitor you for organ health.

Flushing can be mellowed a whole lot by either taking the niacin about 20 minutes after eating or by taking it with an aspirin if aspirin is in your daily regime.

02-28-07 02:22 PM - Post#269915    

Also drinking a lot of water with it.

It don't matter

02-28-07 02:28 PM - Post#269919    

• Laree Said:

Yup. MD had me at 2500mg/day when liver function showed impairment. That was at age 52, 175-180#, excellent liver function to date. Its serious stuff.
jej

02-28-07 02:57 PM - Post#269928    

Here's a link to an article that was published in the New England Journal of Medicine which cites the original study. One factor that I haven't seen discussed before is a low carb / low GI diet. They also concluded that a high carb / high GI diet had the opposite effect (i.e. to lower HDL).
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1323303

Here's an accurate summary of the other study that lists niacin, alcohol, etc.
http://www.jhu.edu/~gazette/2005/26sep05 /26good.html

"The world is best viewed through the ears of a horse." Author Unknown

02-28-07 06:18 PM - Post#270009    

Nuts.
CB

02-28-07 07:41 PM - Post#270039    

My HDL is 85. I'm never gonna die, huh?

For he today that sheds his blood with mine, shall forever be my brother.

02-28-07 07:45 PM - Post#270041    

• TomP Said:

Just watch out for trucks.
CB

02-28-07 10:43 PM - Post#270164    

Why do you mention flushing with Niacin....sorry but does that make you loose a lot of water?

Art

02-28-07 10:44 PM - Post#270166    

OOOPs. or do you mean the red flushing you get with it...tingling skin, heat effect..that sort of thing.
Art

02-28-07 11:18 PM - Post#270181    

Question? At 25 should I be checking my cholesterol?

Doing a little something is always better than doing a lot of nothing! If you can't do it. Work harder! Live,Learn,Lift

02-28-07 11:33 PM - Post#270191    

• John C Said:

Depends who you listen to.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db= PubMed&list_uids=9791 635&dopt=Abstract

If you get a comprehensive physical, you'll get tested.

jej

02-28-07 11:48 PM - Post#270196    

I was able to get my HDL to just about the max with niacin. I take both non-flushing and regular. My liver enzymes get checked and, although they are a little high, they are not near the danger zone.

Judge John "You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves." - Abraham Lincoln "I live, I lift, I ache, I am." - Dave Draper "Moderation assures mediocrity -- nice, safe. Mediocrity is for the mediocre -- simple, okay. The intense rule; the mediocre follow." - Dave Draper Every day innocent plants are killed by vegetarians. Help stop the slaughter. EAT MEAT!

02-28-07 11:50 PM - Post#270197    

Also, I take the regular after dinner and the slower digestion helps most of the time but sometimes I still get flushed (yes, Art, it's reddening, heat and uncomfortable). Aspirin doesn't do anything for me.

Judge John "You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves." - Abraham Lincoln "I live, I lift, I ache, I am." - Dave Draper "Moderation assures mediocrity -- nice, safe. Mediocrity is for the mediocre -- simple, okay. The intense rule; the mediocre follow." - Dave Draper Every day innocent plants are killed by vegetarians. Help stop the slaughter. EAT MEAT!

03-01-07 05:13 AM - Post#270218    

how much niacin are you taking JJ?

Start date 10-5-09: 215 lbs current weight: 187 lbs, 15 weeks in Goal: 175 lbs

03-01-07 09:30 AM - Post#270261    

• John C Said:

It can't hurt as part of a yearly physical. Heart trouble at a young age is rare but artherosclerosis does start to develop early. It just doesn't usually cause problems for years.

The most important test a lifter has to pass is the test of time. -Jon Cole

03-01-07 11:18 AM - Post#270308    

• Betsy M Said:

Again, for SOME people, not all -- this is just one more example of how each of us need to sort out our own personal solution. Dave, of course, has eaten low carb/low GI for decades. His HDL has been in the mid-30s every time I've seen his lab results.

03-01-07 05:50 PM - Post#270517    

You're absolutely right, Laree. These studies generalize results and they won't apply to everyone. They should be viewed as guidelines and incorporated or not, depending on other personal factors.

I don't know if you saw my analogy, but it's like saying if Bill Gates is in a room with 40 other people the average net worth of each person is One Billion Dollars. Technically true when you consider the entire group, but it may not be true as to any of the 40 individuals.

"The world is best viewed through the ears of a horse." Author Unknown

03-01-07 05:56 PM - Post#270519    

• John C Said:

I'd suggest that at your age you get a full workup and keep this as your baseline to refer back to as you get older. Something I wish I would have done when I was your age.

-- JMac's Web Design

03-01-07 07:46 PM - Post#270544    

• John C Said:

Do it!

"When [defeat] comes, I won't even notice. I'll be too busy looking good."

Cholesterol: Longer cardio increases HDL
05-30-07 12:08 PM - Post#305563    

Aerobic activity modestly increases HDL-cholesterol levels

May 29, 2007 Michael O'Riordan Tokyo, Japan - Hitting the treadmill or the bike trails or donning roller blades can modestly increase HDL-cholesterol levels, according to the results of a new study. While not entirely surprising, the finding that regular aerobic exercise increases HDL-cholesterol levels emerges from a new meta-analysis, with investigators also showing that exercise duration per session is the most important element of an exercise program.

You do have to register to see the article, but registration is free and easy enough.

Note the comment about duration over intensity; that'll mess with our heads a little, won't it? You may remember that's what our doc Nichols told me ages ago. I haven't talked with him in a while, and thought perhaps he had shifted over to enthusiasm for intervals, but maybe not.

Get on those bikes, guys. lol.

05-30-07 12:38 PM - Post#305571    

40 minutes/3.7 times a week. Minimum of 8 weeks to see tangible results.

Mark it Zero.

Cholesterol: Longer cardio increases HDL
05-30-07 01:30 PM - Post#305593    

(First off let me say that I couldn't read the article as I don't sign up for stuff even if it's free.)

I am somewhat worried by anyone who prescribes XX minutes of aerobic exercise as part of a long term fitness plan. By definition the body becomes more efficient via repeated aerobic exercise. That means to get the same fitness results the intensity or duration must be continually increased. Continually increasing the weights with lifting is possible, continually increasing aerobic exercise is not. If you are doing it to simply burn calories I understand. If you are doing if for XX minutes for a certain result then you will be getting diminishing returns.

When I couple that with the fact that someone is trying to "control" cholestrol levels with aerobics I'm even more wary. I still have yet to see definitive studies that high cholesterol levels are bad. It appears to me the inflammation is the real risk but since cholesterol is always present at inflamed points (it's the body's response to inflammation) it has been tagged as bad. The fact that the multi-billion dollar statin industry show miniscule positive results (mostly only in "high risk" cases) seems to exonerate cholesterol as well. Several studies have proven that low cholesterol levels are dangerous, as cholesterol is required in all cell membranes.

I lift, therefore I am.

Re: Cholesterol: Longer cardio increases HDL
05-30-07 01:31 PM - Post#305596    

• Laree Said:

Laree: Your comment about intervals is interesting and raises a question that I've been wondering about. Despite the popularity of intervals among fitness coaches and trainers for fat loss, and the stories that high-intensity intervals boost VO2 max better (or at least quicker) than long slow aerobics, I have never seen anything showing that intervals have an equally beneficial effect on blood lipids and overall cardiovascular health as longer-duration aerobics. Maybe that's a difficult thing to study, but I have wondered about that.

Why are you squatting in the curl rack?

05-30-07 01:57 PM - Post#305614    

• DanMartin Said:

Told ya so.

As you get older it is harder to have heroes, but it is sort of necessary. Ernest Hemingway

Re: Cholesterol: Longer cardio increases HDL
05-30-07 02:02 PM - Post#305615    

• Dark Ferrous Metal Said:

Then what are you doing here?

Of all the things ive lost,I miss my mind the most. http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJournals .html?Owner=jamie%28IRL%29

Re: Cholesterol: Longer cardio increases HDL
05-30-07 02:12 PM - Post#305624    

Annoying people mostly....

I lift, therefore I am.

05-30-07 02:16 PM - Post#305627    

Laree I have been on the treadmill a lot lately and all it has done is make me tired and screwed up my leg WO.

It don't matter

05-30-07 02:41 PM - Post#305636    

This report was purely a compilation of HDL studies, not about general fitness, so perhaps the aerobic efficiency argument isn't relative.

I couldn't agree more about the lack of understanding of cholesterol levels. But still, raising HDL is always good.

As far as I know. :~)

Cholesterol: Longer cardio increases HDL
05-30-07 02:45 PM - Post#305639    

Some low-intensity indoor aerobic stuff at the end of a workout seems to make me less sore from the lifting the next day. Maybe it's the blood flow or something.
You guys are pretty scientific sometimes!
What the he** is HDL?

Life's too short to worry about longevity.

Edited by Neander on 05-30-07 02:47 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

Re: Cholesterol: Longer cardio increases HDL
05-30-07 02:52 PM - Post#305641    

• Dark Ferrous Metal Said:

You'd have to be around here a long time and be an ultra P.I.A. to acheive that status. You're not even close

Getting stronger every day.

05-30-07 02:54 PM - Post#305643    

It's all about having goals.

Life's too short to worry about longevity.

05-30-07 02:55 PM - Post#305644    

I had a full medical yesterday, first one in 2 years. Was basically very pleased, almost everything has improved since the last time and all my likely percentages of getting this-and-that were down. Doctor was well pleased with my activity levels and diet. Just one fly in the ointment, HDL cholesterol, way down. It was low last time and now it's dropped more. I can't understand it, my diet is pretty clean, I rarely drink and my health is improving in every other department.
Maybe I'll give up breathing for a couple of weeks, see if that helps!!

brad Still coughing.

Re: Cholesterol: Longer cardio increases HDL
05-30-07 02:56 PM - Post#305646    

• Neander Said:

high- density lipoproteins aka good cholesterol in contrast to LDL, low-density lipoproteins aka bad cholesterol.

Getting stronger every day.

05-30-07 03:20 PM - Post#305655    

Thanks for that.
It's pretty confusing to someone who doesn't know these terms. Better bone-up on the basics of this stuff.

Life's too short to worry about longevity.

05-30-07 05:06 PM - Post#305708    

• DanMartin Said:

Not 3 or 4 times a week, but 3.7. Getting kinda specific aren't they? Suppose I did 42 minutes/3.515 times a week. Same results?

For he today that sheds his blood with mine, shall forever be my brother.

05-30-07 05:15 PM - Post#305712    

• TomP Said:

There was mention that for every 10 minute workout increase, there was a measurable increase in the HDL.

But, there was no mention as to intensity of effort.

Mark it Zero.

05-30-07 05:19 PM - Post#305716    

This is good info, even though it sounds like it's one of those dreaded "meta-analysis" things Thanks for posting Laree.

I am not surprised that it turns out longer workouts raise HDL more. Longer usually means more total calories burned, and I think the ins and outs of cholesterol metabolism will favor whatever burns more calories.

There can be no doubt that high HDL is good! Below a certain level, the risk of heart disease skyrockets; above a certain level, and it practically never happens.

Now as for high LDL cholesterol, there is a LOT of conflicting info out there, but not enough to explain away the statistical correlation between high LDL and heart disease. Wouldn't bunch my undies if I was a little high, but still not something I'd disregard.

The most important test a lifter has to pass is the test of time. -Jon Cole

05-30-07 05:23 PM - Post#305719    

• ccrow Said:

The quality/density of both types of cholesterol also come into play.

Mark it Zero.

05-30-07 05:48 PM - Post#305723    

Cholesterol is still such a wild card and has been demonized to the point that the only thing people are concerned about is "numbers." 50% of all heart attack patients have "normal" cholesterol numbers.

Mark it Zero.