Stuart McGill Speaking in a CBC News Article -
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Display Name Post: Stuart McGill Speaking in a CBC News Article        (Topic#37571)
Neander
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Total Posts: 7700
02-08-21 02:32 AM - Post#907585    



I did not see this till tonight. Not necessarily a setup for discussion, but honestly, you never can tell where a post will go, which is in itself a thing that never ceases to fascinate me.

https://www.cbc.ca/life/wellness/online-w orkouts-for-seniors-and-h ow-to-pick-the-right-one- for-you-1...

Here's another one of his, linked to in the article above:

https://www.cbc.ca/life/wellness/how-to-c hange-your-fitness-routin e-to-stay-strong-and-mobi le-as-you...

This type of article is of course not aimed at us, the superhuman, all knowing and extremely experienced-with-exercise types. Articles like these are wonderful when you're looking for something to direct your non-training friends, relatives, loved ones and house pets to once they express interest in starting to exercise.

I do like that second one a lot.

Good Stuff!
If you're not sweating you need to find another gear.





Edited by Neander on 02-08-21 03:19 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
jamej
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Total Posts: 494
02-08-21 10:56 AM - Post#907594    



As a senior myself, I will summarize what my fellow seniors should pay special attention to when pursuing pursuing strength, fitness, and sports: (1) Ligament and tendon health might be our most serious impediment to progress. It takes a very long time to get ligaments and tendons healthy and strong. (2) Weak hands, wrists, and feet (3) flexibility.
Our muscular strength should be trained like anybody else.
 
Upwind
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Total Posts: 351
Stuart McGill Speaking in a CBC News Article
02-08-21 04:40 PM - Post#907605    



From the second link:
"Many people have back pain because they are an office worker training like an NHL hockey player, when they should be focusing on addressing the physical stresses from prolonged sitting, then build fitness for resilience."

And this:
"Recovery: More exercise isn't better"

I don't know if I would have listened to messages like these years ago, but I know I never saw them in the training materials I read. Think 70s and 80s Weider publications.

I live about 90 minutes south of the Canadian border, and my cable system has 3 Canadian channels. I enjoy watching their news, and I read a few newspapers and magazines from up there. The tone, like in the links above, always seems refreshingly moderate. Thanks for posting them.

Edited by Upwind on 02-08-21 04:56 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
h&t
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Total Posts: 317
Re: Stuart McGill Speaking in a CBC News Article
02-09-21 08:18 AM - Post#907624    



Upwind, yes, we're awesome, sorry for sending all that snow down your way, the Great White North, you know.

The posted articles are just common sense really.

I have love hate relationship with McGill.
I read all his books, including the first one (for professionals). It helped me with lower back pain. He should be given Nobel prize for popularizing his 3 main exercises, mainly the bird dog. Now only lazy people don't show them on youtube w/o mentioning McGill.

OTOH, he is extremely $$$ focused. This is overarching problem with modern medicine (he's not an MD though) - everyone's interested in $$$, but very few actually care about the patient.

Another major problem is that he's done a lot of research (some of it was disputed), but now he's telling people how to train, which he is not qualified to do.
He advocated limited mobility, which may be great for very narrow focused high level sport performance, but is terrible for anyone else. E.g. and I loosely quote - competitive powerlifters are so inflexible they go around in flip flops to avoid bending over to put their shoes on.
Of course, the problem might be the reader, i.e. me, trying to read more staff than I should :)


 
AusDaz
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Total Posts: 3543
Re: Stuart McGill Speaking in a CBC News Article
02-09-21 05:47 PM - Post#907640    



  • h&t Said:

He advocated limited mobility, which may be great for very narrow focused high level sport performance, but is terrible for anyone else.



Who would win a street fight out of Stuart McGill and the “Yoga’s a cure for cancer” crowd?

Seriously, I’m sure there’s a happy medium here. You need enough flexibility for what you do but is loads more always better?
 
h&t
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Total Posts: 317
Re: Stuart McGill Speaking in a CBC News Article
02-09-21 07:22 PM - Post#907643    



  • AusDaz Said:

Seriously, I’m sure there’s a happy medium here. You need enough flexibility for what you do but is loads more always better?




Exactly.


 
Chris Rice
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Total Posts: 574
02-10-21 01:01 PM - Post#907654    



How many people do you know personally who have changed their flexibility dramatically once they became middle aged adults? In my experience most people seem to have a sort of set point beyond which they can only make fairly small changes.
 
WxHerk
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Total Posts: 222
02-10-21 01:08 PM - Post#907655    



  • Chris Rice Said:
How many people do you know personally who have changed their flexibility dramatically once they became middle aged adults? In my experience most people seem to have a sort of set point beyond which they can only make fairly small changes.



I'm 57 and still thinking I can one day touch my toes....

Charlie Brown is older than I am and still thinking that Lucy's gonna let him kick that football!!
Just my 2¢


 
Mr. Kent
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Total Posts: 434
02-10-21 01:12 PM - Post#907657    



  • Chris Rice Said:
How many people do you know personally who have changed their flexibility dramatically once they became middle aged adults? In my experience most people seem to have a sort of set point beyond which they can only make fairly small changes.



Most people would say this about strength also.

My thinking is that all of these qualities (strength, flexibility, agility, etc) tend to get set early-ish in life depending on activity levels and movement patterns when we're young. Can any or all of them be improved? I think so, but the investment of resources becomes more expensive as one ages. Take for example the recovery and dedication it takes to build muscle tissue when you're 20 as opposed to 50.

Actually, the more I think about this isn't Dan's book Intervention about this very topic?
my training log: What Mr. Kent is Doing Now


 
h&t
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Total Posts: 317
02-10-21 02:22 PM - Post#907659    



I was quite flexible in my teen years (wrestling, track&field later). After decades of sitting at a desk I became stiff as a corpse. I wish I knew I had to pay attention to this many years ago. Some people (few) have opposite problem.


 
Ricky01
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Total Posts: 644
02-10-21 03:25 PM - Post#907660    



I have found (and this is not to say it applies to everyone nor is it groundbreaking stuff), that due to sitting/inactivity etc we are weak in our anterior chain in a lengthened position eg and weak in our posterior chain in a fully constructed position.

An example of this is hip extension (standing up straight after sitting).

The focus when we have issues like this is to stretch things - an example is stretching the pec/delt tie in b/c we think our pecs are tight. No amount of stretching is really going to improve our posture etc unless we have the strength in the opposing muscles to pull us into good body positions.

Anyway....was that starting to sound rant like?? Apologies.

Richard
 
AusDaz
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Total Posts: 3543
02-10-21 05:13 PM - Post#907662    



  • Ricky01 Said:
I have found (and this is not to say it applies to everyone nor is it groundbreaking stuff), that due to sitting/inactivity etc we are weak in our anterior chain in a lengthened position eg and weak in our posterior chain in a fully constructed position.

An example of this is hip extension (standing up straight after sitting).

The focus when we have issues like this is to stretch things - an example is stretching the pec/delt tie in b/c we think our pecs are tight. No amount of stretching is really going to improve our posture etc unless we have the strength in the opposing muscles to pull us into good body positions.

Anyway....was that starting to sound rant like?? Apologies.

Richard



Yes! And maybe what’s really important is the change in relative tone/strength between two opposing muscle groups. I rarely stretch my pecs now but I do a lot of work on TRX I’s/Y’s/T’s, etc that I find loosens up my pecs far more effectively. I do stretch my hammies but always combined with lying hip bridges to loosen off my hip flexors. It’s the relative balance that seems to me to be critical.

That might be the bit (of Janda?) I missed for about 3 decades - stretch what’s tight AND strengthen what’s weak.
 
AusDaz
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Total Posts: 3543
02-10-21 05:16 PM - Post#907663    



And just for Neander - I’ll post this too:
https://youtu.be/qcnnI6HD6DU
 
Brian Hassler
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Total Posts: 482
02-11-21 11:44 AM - Post#907683    



  • Ricky01 Said:
No amount of stretching is really going to improve our posture etc unless we have the strength in the opposing muscles to pull us into good body positions.




This idea is something that has persisted for a long time, but if someone is having to "pull" themselves into good posture, they're doing it wrong. The whole point of good posture is that it's efficient, which means it should require minimal muscle activity to maintain.

That's not to say there aren't benefits to balancing oneself out strength-wise, and likely the reciprocal inhibition of strengthening weak muscles will help the antagonists to relax over time. But the whole idea of efforting ourselves into better posture and thinking we have to maintain that effort indefinitely just doesn't work out over time.
 
DanMartin
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Total Posts: 20436
02-11-21 11:51 AM - Post#907684    



Stretch what's tight, strengthen what's loose and work on getting up off the floor.

There endeth the lesson.
Mark it Zero.


 
Jordan D
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Total Posts: 481
02-11-21 03:09 PM - Post#907687    



The great Kit Laughlin said it best: "The body is not malicious." It adapts to whichever stimuli you present it with, and you're presenting those stimuli all day every day of your life, even when sleeping. However your body functions right now, whatever it looks like, it's perfectly adapted to the life you've lived.

It takes a great deal of hubris (of which I myself am righteously guilty) to believe that 2 minutes of stretching each day will overcome 23 hours and 58 minutes of poor posture and movement...compounded over decades.

For anyone interested, Kit's Stretch Therapy programs are pretty amazing: https://stretchtherapy.net/ I think he's among the most brilliant folks in the health/fitness sphere, though few people have ever heard of him. If you want to see older people acquiring real flexibility, that's the place to look.
 
Ricky01
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Total Posts: 644
Stuart McGill Speaking in a CBC News Article
02-11-21 03:57 PM - Post#907692    



  • Brian Hassler Said:


This idea is something that has persisted for a long time, but if someone is having to "pull" themselves into good posture, they're doing it wrong. The whole point of good posture is that it's efficient, which means it should require minimal muscle activity to maintain.

That's not to say there aren't benefits to balancing oneself out strength-wise, and likely the reciprocal inhibition of strengthening weak muscles will help the antagonists to relax over time. But the whole idea of efforting ourselves into better posture and thinking we have to maintain that effort indefinitely just doesn't work out over time.



I agree that posture should be efficient. In Original Strength, we say that posture is a reflex. We also work on trying to develop reflexive stength.

Now, ideally this would (and should improve) with time spent allowing the body to do what it is supposed to do - ala resets/natural movement patterns/basic physical competencies....but in some cases this reflexive strength needs built especially if we spend a huge amount of time inadvertently making it worse with daily sitting/working habits (desks, cars etc).

At no time woukd I advise people to go around forcing their shoulders back in order to appear like they have good posture - this was not at all what I meant.

Richard


Edited by Ricky01 on 02-11-21 03:58 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
Neander
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Total Posts: 7700
Stuart McGill Speaking in a CBC News Article
02-11-21 05:53 PM - Post#907693    



  • AusDaz Said:
And just for Neander - I’ll post this too:
https://youtu.be/qcnnI6HD6DU




I can't believe how flexible my jaw and lips are when laughing uncontrollably!
Good laugh genetics are a blessing.

  • Quoting:
The posted articles are just common sense really.



And that in itself is uncommon

  • Quoting:

Stretch what's tight, strengthen what's loose and work on getting up off the floor.



Sometimes it's the real obvious stuff that gets a bit forgotten once older age starts kicking in.
Sauntering in! I'm gonna go with that image, 'cause hey, after all I am Canadian, eh!
If you're not sweating you need to find another gear.





Edited by Neander on 02-11-21 06:02 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
DanMartin
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Total Posts: 20436
Re: Stuart McGill Speaking in a CBC News Article
02-11-21 06:04 PM - Post#907694    



  • Neander Said:
  • AusDaz Said:
And just for Neander - I’ll post this too:
https://youtu.be/qcnnI6HD6DU




I can't believe how flexible my jaw and lips are when laughing uncontrollably!
Good laugh genetics are a blessing.

  • Quoting:
The posted articles are just common sense really.



And that in itself is uncommon

  • Quoting:

Stretch what's tight, strengthen what's loose and work on getting up off the floor.



Sometimes it's the real obvious stuff that gets a bit forgotten once older age starts kicking in.
Sauntering in! I'm gonna go with that image, 'cause hey, after all I am Canadian, eh!



A left coast Canadian.
Mark it Zero.


 
h&t
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Total Posts: 317
Stuart McGill Speaking in a CBC News Article
02-11-21 09:06 PM - Post#907696    



Yes but how does one know what's tight and what's loose? Serious question and this is the crux of my original issue with McGill.
I don't need to do splits, but I'd like to be able to do basic staff and more for a couple more decades.




Edited by h&t on 02-11-21 09:07 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
Ricky01
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Total Posts: 644
Re: Stuart McGill Speaking in a CBC News Article
02-12-21 02:18 AM - Post#907698    



  • h&t Said:
Yes but how does one know what's tight and what's loose? Serious question and this is the crux of my original issue with McGill.
I don't need to do splits, but I'd like to be able to do basic staff and more for a couple more decades.



Its a great question. In many (but again, not all) cases I would imagine looking at daily sitting/standing/moving habits. What I mean is being aware of us sitting eg rounded shouldered.

This might let me think that chances are my upper back being in that position for prolonged period will possibly be weakened whilst the front of my shoulders (pec, delt tie in area) being shortened for prolonged period will possibly be tighter.

There are a lot of things that come up from person to person, but we are all different.

Richard
 
Jordan D
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Total Posts: 481
02-12-21 08:56 AM - Post#907701    



I found that when I started doing OS, my body quickly told me what was tight and what needed work.
 
Ricky01
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Total Posts: 644
02-12-21 09:12 AM - Post#907702    



  • Jordan D Said:
I found that when I started doing OS, my body quickly told me what was tight and what needed work.



Amen....it allows us to explore our own movement and begin a conversation with ourselves.

Richard
 
Sean S
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Total Posts: 23
Re: Stuart McGill Speaking in a CBC News Article
02-12-21 10:09 AM - Post#907707    



  • h&t Said:
Yes but how does one know what's tight and what's loose? Serious question and this is the crux of my original issue with McGill.
I don't need to do splits, but I'd like to be able to do basic staff and more for a couple more decades.


I have studied almost all of McGill's stuff including his Ultimate Back Health text book and I see where you are coming from. I think he is on target most of the time, but you really have to study the nuances of what he is saying. The biggest thing I have learned from his writing is that not everyone's back pain is due to the same cause, so the right treatment or maintenance is different for everyone. I think that message gets lost in translation or isn't communicated clearly in some of his individual articles.
Personally, doing some gentle spinal mobility work has made me feel much better. As long as I don't force excessive range of motion in the lumbar spine, my back feels better most of the time. He does spent a lot of time arguing against stretching so I think it could be helpful if he talked a little more about how and when stretching might be helpful for certain conditions.
 
h&t
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Total Posts: 317
Re: Stuart McGill Speaking in a CBC News Article
02-12-21 09:52 PM - Post#907742    



  • Sean S Said:
He does spent a lot of time arguing against stretching so I think it could be helpful if he talked a little more about how and when stretching might be helpful for certain conditions.



Agreed. Initially I thought he's saying spine flexion is bad, really really bad. Now that I do some stretching for lower back, I am better.
Call me stupid, but this is the way I read him and heard him.

I assume OS stands for overhead squats.
Well I strongly disagree. I can contort myself into almost any exercise/position. ccrow made a great point a decade ago (miss him), that it's easier to get into some positions with the help of the barbell.
The question is at what price (compensations)? and how is it good for me? It's not, but we like to lift and that'w why we're here, innit?


 
Sean S
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Total Posts: 23
02-13-21 10:17 AM - Post#907751    



It seems that much of his avoiding flexion is for those with a history of disc herniations.
My self diagnosis, using his books and resources, is facet joint arthritis which actually seems to be relieved by some gentle spinal flexion or movement. As long as I avoid heavily loaded flexion or the very end range of motion, some gentle flexion/extension cycles make everything feel better.
I think some here may be using OS for Original Strength.
 
Jordan D
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Total Posts: 481
02-13-21 10:35 AM - Post#907755    



I meant Original Strength, yes.

I have a lurid history of herniated disks and facet joint strains, sprains, and tears, and Dr. McGill’s stuff, while intellectually interesting, never did jack shit for me.

You know what did? Conventional deadlifts.

Starting Strength style. Easy Strength and Marty Gallagher trained. Eliminated decades of chronic pain, prescriptions, and doctors scratching their heads.

I think most people placebo themselves into long-term back pain. Me included.
 
Ricky01
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Total Posts: 644
02-13-21 10:44 AM - Post#907756    



  • Sean S Said:
It seems that much of his avoiding flexion is for those with a history of disc herniations.
My self diagnosis, using his books and resources, is facet joint arthritis which actually seems to be relieved by some gentle spinal flexion or movement. As long as I avoid heavily loaded flexion or the very end range of motion, some gentle flexion/extension cycles make everything feel better.
I think some here may be using OS for Original Strength.



After my disc herniation, OS turned my 3.5 years of crippling pain around. Allowing my body to move as it is supposed to relaxed me into moving freely (and stop relying on my spinal erectors to stabalise my entire core haha).

After I moved better I discovered that strengthening all my glute muscles is often neglected but vitally important.

Richard
 
DanMartin
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Total Posts: 20436
02-13-21 12:47 PM - Post#907765    



I have/had multiple disc herniation's. Walking and the McGill Big 3 made a huge difference. That said, it took awhile.

I don't do them that often now, but I do do the DMPM and it seems to be doing the trick.

The heaviest lifting or should I say the heaviest load my spine has to manage now is two 24kg kettlebells. YMMV
Mark it Zero.


 
Old Miler
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Total Posts: 1591
02-13-21 03:55 PM - Post#907772    



My back was always my "weak spot" as a runner -couple of times a season it would stiffen up chronically for weeks, and it would seize up in races. I suspect I herniated a disk skiing over some bumps badly.

I did two good things that helped along the way:

(1) a six-month course becoming a sports massage therapist in my late 20s, involving a ton of hands on practice on each other. This taught me that most aches and pains have been building up for weeks before they become "a problem", and to manage at an early stage.

(2) finding you guys 10 years ago and doing my first Easy Strength cycle.

Back trouble has been minimal since then, and really easily managed.

Interesting that the UK NHS says very clearly that the ONLY scientifically validated treatment for back pain is "more movement".
 
Jordan D
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Total Posts: 481
02-13-21 05:38 PM - Post#907773    



Barbell Medicine produces the best content on lifting and pain, in my opinion. The doctors talk about the medical side of it, but their resident Viking, Alan Thrall, makes the greatest videos:

https://youtu.be/riq-DfDDimc

https://youtu.be/Ase4bsmoBec
 
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