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| Display Name | Post: Deadlifts Aren't That Great | |
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BChase Old hand here on IOL Posts 854 |
05-23-20 03:18 PM - Post#898383
CT throwing some heat on T-Nation today https://www.t-nation.com/training/unpopular-op inion-deadlifts-arent-tha t-great I like articles like this. We all have those certain exercises that you just don't get. For me its: Bent Press 1 hand swing or hand 2 hand swings Kettlebell Floor Press Bent over barbell rows |
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Dan John Carpal tunnel from posting! Posts 12292 
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05-23-20 03:44 PM - Post#898385
I agree on everything you listed. I never really deadlifted. As an O lifter, it is just "more." I tried to get my snatch up with Snatch Grip DLs and I think it made me really strong as snatch grip DLs...
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iPood Grand Pooh-Bah Posts 2360 |
05-23-20 03:46 PM - Post#898386
CT throwing some heat on T-Nation today https://www.t-nation.com/training/unpopular-op inion-deadlifts-arent-tha t-great I like articles like this. We all have those certain exercises that you just don't get. For me its: Bent Press 1 hand swing or hand 2 hand swings Kettlebell Floor Press Bent over barbell rows I love pulling from the floor, but I kind of agree with Thib on this. Power cleans and snatch grip deadlifts are way more than enough for me. I would even dare to suggest that heavy double KB cleans could cover all my needs and then some.
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Browser IOL rocks! Posts 507 
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05-23-20 03:55 PM - Post#898387
I totally agree that the deadlift sucks if done for the sake of something else. There are better exercises if your goal is muscle mass or athletic performance or general fitness. About the only reason to train it is for it’s own sake, for competition or just because it’s cool to have a big pull. Otherwise it takes much more than it gives.
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tom6112 Old hand here on IOL Posts 846 |
05-23-20 05:02 PM - Post#898390
I love deadlifts and always do them. But I do other types of pulls. I am someone with non lifters body Short torso and long limbs. I like to do a lot of different movements but always deadlift once a week |
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Adam S IOL rocks! Posts 629 
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05-23-20 05:09 PM - Post#898391
The deadlift is great for a few things, among them self-knowledge. I can think of three lessons that I learned from deadlifting. After taking first in the deadlift in my first (and only) powerlifting meet as a 129 pound lifter in the 132-pound class, I learned that hip injuries can take a long time to heal. Then, several years later, after working up to my all time best deadlift in the gym (400 at the same bodyweight), I learned that elbow nerve entrapment injuries take a REALLY long time to heal and sometimes require surgery (mine did). Then, as an old man, I learned that even light deadlifting can reveal how bad your scoliosis has gotten. Having learned what I can from the lift, I don't do it anymore.
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iPood Grand Pooh-Bah Posts 2360 |
05-23-20 05:17 PM - Post#898392
I totally agree that the deadlift sucks if done for the sake of something else. There are better exercises if your goal is muscle mass or athletic performance or general fitness. About the only reason to train it is for it’s own sake, for competition or just because it’s cool to have a big pull. Otherwise it takes much more than it gives. And I would also add another heresy: incline bench gives me WAY more than any other press (including flat bench and overhead).
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Dan John Carpal tunnel from posting! Posts 12292
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05-23-20 05:38 PM - Post#898393
As a youth, I stated that...at MY age!!!...all I would need is Incline Bench Press and Squat Snatch. I still think that is pretty good.
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iPood Grand Pooh-Bah Posts 2360 |
05-23-20 05:49 PM - Post#898394
As a youth, I stated that...at MY age!!!...all I would need is Incline Bench Press and Squat Snatch. I still think that is pretty good. That, plus loaded carries. I might try this as soon as lockdown is over and gyms reopen.
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Jordan D Old hand here on IOL Posts 771 
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05-23-20 06:22 PM - Post#898396
I love deadlifts. I’m horrible at them, and they exacerbate old back injuries on occasion, but nothing makes me feel springier and more athletic than a deadlift cycle with no squats. Beats me why. |
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DanMartin Shomer Shabbos Posts 20705 
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05-23-20 06:52 PM - Post#898397
I deadlifted once a week for years. It was always my Thursday or Friday lift so I had the weekend to recover. If you aren't pursuing a big total in powertlifting, then there is no need to lift more than double bodyweight and even then, not that often. I still prefer the power clean over the deadlift, but most folks don't want to put the time in to learn the lift.
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ohiojosh Getting the hang of it Posts 47 |
05-23-20 07:18 PM - Post#898398
A bad deadlift rep injured my back and caused major sciatic pain that I've lived with for about 3 years. I was careless and pop, that did it. Very stupid on my part. Since then I've been doing trap bar deadlifts, and have really grown to love them. I do them using the same technique I used pulling conventional deadlifts as opposed to the more squatty style you sometimes see. They certainly seem to be a bit more forgiving, plus you can really load them up and go heavy which is great. I know even Jim Wendler has moved to mostly deadlifting with the trap bar and squatting with the safety bar. |
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vegpedlr Old hand here on IOL Posts 1179 
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05-23-20 07:55 PM - Post#898400
The DL and KB swings taught me how to feel the hinge movement as different from the squat. A little time with in a MTB skills clinic taught me how that hinging strength is useful. The DL gives me good crossover value while saving my legs for running and cycling. Squats beat up my legs if I’m not careful. |
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Matt_T At home here Posts 379 |
05-23-20 08:41 PM - Post#898403
I love deadlifts. I’m horrible at them, and they exacerbate old back injuries on occasion, but nothing makes me feel springier and more athletic than a deadlift cycle with no squats. Beats me why. Word. I'm not horrible at them but still , word. |
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BrianBinVA Carpal tunnel from posting! Posts 5140 
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05-23-20 11:19 PM - Post#898404
As a youth, I stated that...at MY age!!!...all I would need is Incline Bench Press and Squat Snatch. I still think that is pretty good. I've always thought the snatch-grip DL and the incline bench was the secret sauce PTTP variant. At least it was for me. Till I stopped doing it, naturally. Throw in a warmup of some two-hand swings, goblet squats and one-kb carries (Cook drill) and you are gold. |
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Gunvald in love with... Posts 4442 
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05-24-20 02:35 AM - Post#898407
I started to do deadlifts regularly a few months ago and I like the exercise. I will however never go over 120kg / 265 lbs working weight, and I dont dare to max out. Too scared of all the deadlift stories and how they ended. I also want to be able and deadlift for the rest of my life.. even when I'm 80.
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RupertC Master trainer Posts 1479 
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05-24-20 06:49 AM - Post#898410
Lots of people on here recommended the Tactical Barbell book. One of the big take-homes from the book for me was the idea that you can maintain a respectable deadlift while only training it one session a month. I have tested this on myself (N=1) and found it to be true. If I've ever left it more than a month, then not so much...
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BChase Old hand here on IOL Posts 854 |
05-24-20 07:33 AM - Post#898411
I used to love incline press. My shoulder cracks every time I do them so that's not in the arsenal anymore. I barbell deadlifted in 4-5 years. Got to almost 2x, that was good enough. |
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Roger Clarvin Settling in pretty good Posts 72 
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05-24-20 08:14 AM - Post#898413
To what extent would this apply to someone doing deadlifts in the context of ES, where you are: -keeping the weights light/easy/crisp, which would seem to address two of the concerns--that DLs are generally draining and that the negative is often sloppy -also probably doing a bunch of swings, which would seem to address the issue that DLs lack the loaded stretch -hitting the DL for maybe ten workouts and then rotating through other hinge alternatives (some of which might involve a full front squat and therefore be more well rounded--clean and snatch)? I dunno, it seems like it's not a criticism of deadlifts per se but rather: deadlifts done too heavy--ie, poorly--and too much--ie, to the exclusion of other stuff. And to that extent, I guess I agree. |
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Ricky01 Old hand here on IOL Posts 709 |
05-24-20 08:14 AM - Post#898414
My favourite exercise all through rugby (that and push press)....maintaining two times bodyweight for reps by the time the season ended told me I was fit and well and uninjured. In the end it contributed to herniated disc (ironically in the off season)....I was all prime movers and no stabalisers. Now I think an abikirt to pick up things (kids, shopping, garden pots etc) day to day often needs to be taught to people and is vitally important. Richard |
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Jordan D Old hand here on IOL Posts 771
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05-24-20 09:15 AM - Post#898415
To what extent would this apply to someone doing deadlifts in the context of ES, where you are: -keeping the weights light/easy/crisp, which would seem to address two of the concerns--that DLs are generally draining and that the negative is often sloppy -also probably doing a bunch of swings, which would seem to address the issue that DLs lack the loaded stretch -hitting the DL for maybe ten workouts and then rotating through other hinge alternatives (some of which might involve a full front squat and therefore be more well rounded--clean and snatch)? I dunno, it seems like it's not a criticism of deadlifts per se but rather: deadlifts done too heavy--ie, poorly--and too much--ie, to the exclusion of other stuff. And to that extent, I guess I agree. I think this is it. ES-style deadlifts don’t feel like deadlifts after two weeks. They feel like snappy, heavy swings. Somewhat similar for the 1-2-3-1-2-3 pyramid style workouts at reasonable weights. These take nothing out of me. These make me feel stronger. I think a lot of Internet peoples just haven’t figured out that long-term sub maximal training is a thing.
I still prefer the power clean over the deadlift, but most folks don't want to put the time in to learn the lift. Agreed. |
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vegpedlr Old hand here on IOL Posts 1179
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05-24-20 10:17 AM - Post#898419
I . I think a lot of Internet peoples just haven’t figured out that long-term sub maximal training is a thing. Wait, wha?! No pain no gain, bro. |
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Adam S IOL rocks! Posts 629
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05-24-20 10:44 AM - Post#898420
Great thread: As an alternative to barbell deadlifts, trap bar deads are great. Of course, trap bar deadlifts seem to be a very different exercise, but that's not a bad thing. I have found them much easier on the back, though sometimes my knees squawk a bit from them. A lot of bodybuilders don't deadlift from the floor, but prefer rack deads from knee height or lower. This is also a more forgiving approach. People have mentioned incline presses. I recall that Bill Starr sung the praises of that exercise in The Strongest Shall Survive and in some of his Iron Man columns. I find the barbell version tough on my shoulders, and the fixed incline benches in most commercial gyms seem too steep. I prefer to use dumbbells on an adjustable incline bench. The dumbbells allow for more natural movement and you can adjust movement path and hand orientation based on whatever is hurting that day. The adjustable bench similarly allows you to fine tune the exercise better. The only problem is getting the dumbbells into position. I try to keep my reps on inclines above 8, so that I am forced to use reasonable weights and don't have to use dumbbells that are heavy enough to frighten me. A workout of trap bar deads, incline dumbbell presses, and maybe either chins or chest supported rows would cover the body nicely if you want a consolidated routine. Maybe finish with face pulls or Ys (cable, band, or whatever) and a superset or two of triceps and biceps ("beach work"). Of course, some of us like a lot more variety and bodypart specialization, and with the gyms closed now in a lot of places, this (for me at least) is a not-now, if ever, idea.
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DanMartin Shomer Shabbos Posts 20705
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05-24-20 11:18 AM - Post#898421
Great thread: As an alternative to barbell deadlifts, trap bar deads are great. Of course, trap bar deadlifts seem to be a very different exercise, but that's not a bad thing. I have found them much easier on the back, though sometimes my knees squawk a bit from them. A lot of bodybuilders don't deadlift from the floor, but prefer rack deads from knee height or lower. This is also a more forgiving approach. People have mentioned incline presses. I recall that Bill Starr sung the praises of that exercise in The Strongest Shall Survive and in some of his Iron Man columns. I find the barbell version tough on my shoulders, and the fixed incline benches in most commercial gyms seem too steep. I prefer to use dumbbells on an adjustable incline bench. The dumbbells allow for more natural movement and you can adjust movement path and hand orientation based on whatever is hurting that day. The adjustable bench similarly allows you to fine tune the exercise better. The only problem is getting the dumbbells into position. I try to keep my reps on inclines above 8, so that I am forced to use reasonable weights and don't have to use dumbbells that are heavy enough to frighten me. A workout of trap bar deads, incline dumbbell presses, and maybe either chins or chest supported rows would cover the body nicely if you want a consolidated routine. Maybe finish with face pulls or Ys (cable, band, or whatever) and a superset or two of triceps and biceps ("beach work"). Of course, some of us like a lot more variety and bodypart specialization, and with the gyms closed now in a lot of places, this (for me at least) is a not-now, if ever, idea. The incline press, especially with dumbbells is just about the most perfect exercise, IMO. There are a lot of ya buts though. The type of incline bench made all the difference. The common seated incline bench always seemed to cause my back some issues. I would end up all scrunched. Especially if I was using a barbell. Dumbbells were a little better and keeping the bench at a rather low incline (30 degrees) worked. All of that said, the best, for me, was a full length "standing" incline bench. My Dad made me one at it was grand. It was 60 degrees and my whole body fit on it, even my head! Once my partners handed me the dumbbells it was off to the races.
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Brian Hassler IOL rocks! Posts 616 |
05-24-20 11:19 AM - Post#898422
They seemed to work okay for Allyson Felix. |
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DanMartin Shomer Shabbos Posts 20705
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05-24-20 11:29 AM - Post#898424
I want to add, if I was given an either/or, the deadlift would be on my short list of keepers. Regardless of the persuasive nature of the article, a lot of good quality of muscle and a butt load of practical strength has been gained from using the deadlift correctly. The deadlift, and this is just my opinion, is an exercise that works best when not taken to the limit. Obviously that doesn't apply to powerlifting meets, but most who deadlift never step on a platform.
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vegpedlr Old hand here on IOL Posts 1179
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05-24-20 11:41 AM - Post#898425
A workout of trap bar deads, incline dumbbell presses, and maybe either chins or chest supported rows would cover the body nicely if you want a consolidated routine. Maybe finish with face pulls or Ys (cable, band, or whatever) and a superset or two of triceps and biceps ("beach work"). If I trained in a commercial gym, this would be in my ES rotation. I’ve done somewhat similar in the past and liked it. Low incline DB beach is great. I’ve just now put some time into the trap bar DL and I like it. |
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Adam S IOL rocks! Posts 629
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05-24-20 12:13 PM - Post#898428
A workout of trap bar deads, incline dumbbell presses, and maybe either chins or chest supported rows would cover the body nicely if you want a consolidated routine. Maybe finish with face pulls or Ys (cable, band, or whatever) and a superset or two of triceps and biceps ("beach work"). If I trained in a commercial gym, this would be in my ES rotation. I’ve done somewhat similar in the past and liked it. Low incline DB beach is great. I’ve just now put some time into the trap bar DL and I like it. I agree with both you and Dan about the low incline. Like Dan, I try to stay around 30 degrees. I'll go higher sometimes, but 30 (or even less) is my go-to. Sometimes, I'd start fairly high, and lower it each set to work from shoulder down to pecs, and to take advantage of the mechanical advantage of a lower incline as I fatigue.
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AronLZ At home here Posts 214 
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05-24-20 02:25 PM - Post#898430
I did Dead lifts for about half a year when I was a Junior in High school, tried them again for a few months in my late 20's. I have always hated them, I'm 6'1'' with a longer waist so this exercise just never felt good. I do SLDL or Romanian dead lifts now, great exercise and feels natural to my structure. Dead lifts are certianlly great if you are a: Strongman/woman or power lifter but they are useless for bodybuilding IMO. |
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tom6112 Old hand here on IOL Posts 846 |
05-24-20 02:32 PM - Post#898431
I am not going to apologize i love deadlifts At 59 I do them once a week. Yesterday I cleaned out my basement which involved a lot of deadlifts but no squats or bench pressing |
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Brian Hassler IOL rocks! Posts 616 |
05-24-20 02:36 PM - Post#898432
...a butt load of practical strength has been gained from using the deadlift correctly. I don't know if that was intentional, but I loved it. |
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Jordan Derksen At home here Posts 392 
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05-25-20 10:15 AM - Post#898463
I always found the olympic lifts made me better at deadlifting than deadlifting did. I'm working in snatch and clean and jerk again now that it's warm enough to lift on my platform in my shop. Now that I have this whole new perspective of movements instead of exercises it has become obvious how complete those 2 lifts are. It nails down hinge, squat, and pull. One could argue for press as well. It's funny if you pull it apart, in my experience the quick lifts also made me better at squatting than just squatting did. Really if you look at it, once you get to a decent level of proficiency the lifts are heavy enough to be light enough to 'easy strength' the hinge and squat movement. Frequent practice at sub-maximal loads of those movement patterns with the power dynamic thrown in. I'm trying a new thing now. I've done olympic lifts with no deadlifts, not even lift specific ones. It worked better. Now I'm trying olympic lifts with no extra squats. After reading up on a few top level lifters who would never squat more than they could clean (or max 110%) I realized that placing a big emphasis on my squat when I was competing probably held me back in the long run. My legs were always tired. If I could do it over again, better to keep the goal the goal and limit the squat as an accessory. I worried about it too much. It'll be a fun experiment. |
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Neander Carpal tunnel from posting! Posts 7755 
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05-25-20 05:09 PM - Post#898487
The deadlift is great for a few things, among them self-knowledge. That's a great point. They can tell you a lot about the whys behind your lifting on any given day. About your ego and about what drives you to want to lift that day. I hope I never have to drop them completely from my lifting, but there's a crap ton of ways to implement the regular deadlift, and I'm sure we all know those ways. Sure, there's other lifts and exercises to choose from, but nothing else matches the beautiful simplicity of just picking a bar up from the floor and standing up with it, and how alive that can make you feel. Some people write off lighter deadlifts as useless. As usual, it all depends on what it is exactly you're trying to achieve when you lift that day.
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Silverback61 Grand Pooh-Bah Posts 1834 
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05-28-20 07:27 PM - Post#898587
I Totally Disagree with "Thib" - Deadlifts are one of the few exercises worth doing.
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AAnnunz Uncle Al Posts 24932 
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05-28-20 08:13 PM - Post#898589
From a biography found on https://www.greatestphysiques.com/male-physiques/christ ian-thibaudeau/ "After years of hard work and effort, Christian managed to build a strong and well-built physique. He also learned a number of new techniques which he gradually incorporated into his routine. "One of these exercises was the dead lift. He knew how useful the dead lift could be for bodybuilding, but he also knew that it was a popular movement for Olympic lifts. It was this knowledge that led him down the path to Olympic competitions." Hmmmm.
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Old Miler Grand Pooh-Bah Posts 1744 |
05-29-20 04:42 PM - Post#898608
I'm not aiming for competition, just trying to get back to 2.0x BW with easy strength, but I love deadlifts. However knackered I feel before lifting, I feel better after. |
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Upside Starting to like posting Posts 185 |
05-29-20 04:50 PM - Post#898610
AAnnunz- Hmmmmm indeed. Sometimes I guess a guy just has deadlines to meet. |
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Silverback61 Grand Pooh-Bah Posts 1834
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05-29-20 07:53 PM - Post#898613
From a biography found on https://www.greatestphysiques.com/male-physiques/christ ian-thibaudeau/ "After years of hard work and effort, Christian managed to build a strong and well-built physique. He also learned a number of new techniques which he gradually incorporated into his routine. "One of these exercises was the dead lift. He knew how useful the dead lift could be for bodybuilding, but he also knew that it was a popular movement for Olympic lifts. It was this knowledge that led him down the path to Olympic competitions." Hmmmm. Interesting find. Just another reason to not waste time on T Nation.
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Mike L Getting the hang of it Posts 43 
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05-30-20 09:34 AM - Post#898624
I "like" deadlifts, but I rarely do them anymore so I think that is something. I've stripped away a lot. I think deadlifts and single leg deadlifts are a bit of skill building movements. There's a lot to learn, understand how to move the body, how to get the timing down. Translates to life movements of picking things up. But once I learned it, the benefits diminished pretty quickly. Got to 2x body weight and ... sort of hmmmm... why do more? Now I do it as a sort of tune up just to see if I'm moving well. Single leg deadlifts are the same but more skill. Check for balance, left/right issue, mobility. Once I got to certain weight...not worth it. I'd even say get ups are the same. Once I learned the skill and moved better, I don't want that weight wobbling precariously over my head. |
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Pepper At home here Posts 296 |
05-30-20 04:05 PM - Post#898633
Deadlifts are in the top-three lifts that have had the quickest carryover to my sport and life. The other are chin ups and carries. But I am 6'5, so they are, well, different for me. |
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Old Miler Grand Pooh-Bah Posts 1744 |
05-30-20 05:40 PM - Post#898635
Got to 2x body weight and ... sort of hmmmm... why do more? This seems to be the common theme: anyone can get to 2xBW with application, and can benefit in other areas from getting to it. It's all I ever aspired to, got there for a couple of years, working my way back there now. |
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DanMartin Shomer Shabbos Posts 20705
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05-30-20 07:19 PM - Post#898636
I'm going to find a picture of me deadlifting.
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DanMartin Shomer Shabbos Posts 20705
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05-30-20 07:38 PM - Post#898637
 I have no idea why the picture is sideways. Clicking the attachment has it right.
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blkjss Grand Pooh-Bah Posts 2265 |
06-02-20 09:55 AM - Post#898697
I switched to Rack Pull and Snatch Grip Rack Pull since Dan and the others agreed on full range DL is not necessary. I have started doing RDL now, starting light,a and it feels good.
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iPood Grand Pooh-Bah Posts 2360 |
06-02-20 10:25 AM - Post#898700
I switched to Rack Pull and Snatch Grip Rack Pull since Dan and the others agreed on full range DL is not necessary. I have started doing RDL now, starting light,a and it feels good. Trust me, give snatch grip RDLs a try. You won't regret it.
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BrianBinVA Carpal tunnel from posting! Posts 5140
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06-02-20 02:15 PM - Post#898707
I switched to Rack Pull and Snatch Grip Rack Pull since Dan and the others agreed on full range DL is not necessary. I have started doing RDL now, starting light,a and it feels good. Trust me, give snatch grip RDLs a try. You won't regret it. Yep. Snatch grip DL/RDL is my DL variant of choice (and the only barbell lift I do) |
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Eric R At home here Posts 264 |
06-02-20 03:01 PM - Post#898708
Not the same thing, but I wanted to set a goal of hitting 315lbs*15 on the SLDL before my 40th birthday last year. I set up a long cycle and achieved it a week early. I literally got no development from it but I felt like I was beaten to a pulp for 3 days after that. Deads stink. |
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Adam S IOL rocks! Posts 629
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06-02-20 04:10 PM - Post#898709
When I was training for a powerlifting meet, every time I would get in the rack to squat, our team coach would say "Big Legs. Big Legs." I always assumed he was being ironic.
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Vicki Carpal tunnel from posting! Posts 8196 
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06-02-20 08:50 PM - Post#898719
One-hand alternating KB DL is what I am finding useful now. It is good for this old lady.
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Andy Mitchell Factus non verbis Posts 5269 
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06-02-20 09:51 PM - Post#898720
I can never really understand why a person can write about an exercise being generally worthless . But I also understand like with the calf raise, one can lift a lot of weight due to the advantage of good leverage. It doesn’t make it a poor exercise but to do the calf raise often will (like the dead-lift) end in tears. The big three is great and the dead-lift IMO is A great exercise and the easiest to master. These days I’m doing the SLDL
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Andy Mitchell Factus non verbis Posts 5269
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06-02-20 09:53 PM - Post#898721
Some need to understand that a Proper workout is not a team event.
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Andy Mitchell Factus non verbis Posts 5269
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06-02-20 09:55 PM - Post#898722
And only DM could Deadlift that off a wall Bravo.
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tom6112 Old hand here on IOL Posts 846 |
06-02-20 10:05 PM - Post#898723
The deadlift is always my main lift I do use variations. But some type every week |
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Silverback61 Grand Pooh-Bah Posts 1834
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06-02-20 10:31 PM - Post#898724
The Deadlift is King. That is All.
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Neander Carpal tunnel from posting! Posts 7755
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06-03-20 01:49 AM - Post#898729
And only DM could Deadlift that off a wall Bravo. Yeah!!!  Thanks for sharing the photo, Dan! I reread that article and you know what? I am anxious to hit some reg deadlifts tomorrow. It figures, eh.
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Kiwi5 At home here Posts 264 |
06-04-20 01:55 PM - Post#898777
I stopped deadlifting (in my home gym) months ago. With a GPP goal of 'Task Completion', high rep back squats (Super Squats) done once weekly has given me the greatest increase in all areas strength than any other program I've tried. Deadlifts up to 140kg for a solid triple last year...happybwith that. Did next to nothing for my GPP goals. I do 'real life' deadlifts, mostly sub maximal items. All the work gear became lighter after high rep back squats. Old school. I do RDLs, but light and higher reps. If I'm ever out of the physical work world, I might do some light deadlifting. Having rediscovered the low bar back squat at high reps (15-30), I have to wonder why people waste time with heavy DL. Unless competing, high rep squats will provide....everything. RIP DL. Wise man that Christian Thibaudeau. Note: I rotate back squats with dead stop Zerchers. Another superior GPP lift when compared to the DL. And..a squat highly regarded by the honourable Grand Chairman Von Tsatsouline. |
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BrianBinVA Carpal tunnel from posting! Posts 5140
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06-04-20 02:33 PM - Post#898779
I stopped deadlifting (in my home gym) months ago. With a GPP goal of 'Task Completion', high rep back squats (Super Squats) done once weekly has given me the greatest increase in all areas strength than any other program I've tried. Deadlifts up to 140kg for a solid triple last year...happybwith that. Did next to nothing for my GPP goals. I do 'real life' deadlifts, mostly sub maximal items. All the work gear became lighter after high rep back squats. Old school. I do RDLs, but light and higher reps. If I'm ever out of the physical work world, I might do some light deadlifting. Having rediscovered the low bar back squat at high reps (15-30), I have to wonder why people waste time with heavy DL. Unless competing, high rep squats will provide....everything. RIP DL. Wise man that Christian Thibaudeau. Note: I rotate back squats with dead stop Zerchers. Another superior GPP lift when compared to the DL. And..a squat highly regarded by the honourable Grand Chairman Von Tsatsouline. I won't say deadlifts are the be-all and end-all, but for many goals, for many people (especially people who either do not want to gain weight, or want to lose weight) they are vastly superior to squats of any kind, and especially squats done for high reps. Just depends on what you want... |
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DanMartin Shomer Shabbos Posts 20705
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06-04-20 06:13 PM - Post#898781
Squats will get you big and strong, deadlifts will get you strong.
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Andy Mitchell Factus non verbis Posts 5269
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06-04-20 08:17 PM - Post#898783
Some once stated that with danger presents opportunity I think that describes the benefits of the squat, the dead-lift and press nicely.
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Kiwi5 At home here Posts 264 |
06-04-20 08:41 PM - Post#898785
I was and am amazed at how 'swole' I became after completing the first 6 week cycle of super squats. I was asked if I was taking steroids. Just so simple, one session per week along accessory dips, dumbell pullovers, rows/chins and RDLs, never pushed those and my gains have been substantial. For a 53 year old, I only wish I knew about Super Squats earlier. BTW, when i rotate out to Zerchers, i go back to low reps. I tried High Rep Zerchers and...never again. Having said all that, I do like the rack pull and trap bar DL. I'm just going to occasionally train them, and do so lighter than I used to. |
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Jim James Settling in pretty good Posts 97 |
06-05-20 01:14 AM - Post#898790
I've posted here questioning if deadlifts were worth it for me. No matter how low I keep the reps, I will tweak my back and have to take a few weeks off and start over at a low weight. For a while I thought I had solved the issue by pulling nothing but singles (and doing my damndest to get tight and pull without flexion in the back) but it still managed to tweak it. Then I went to singles deadlifts off blocks (only a 3-4 inches off the ground) and still got a tweak. When I go back to a proper gym, I'm going to do just trap bar deadlifts with the elevated handle. For a 47 y/o with long femurs that doesn't compete in powerlifting and has a history of tweaking his back, I don't think the deadlift is for me. |
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Jim James Settling in pretty good Posts 97 |
06-05-20 01:16 AM - Post#898791
I BTW, when i rotate out to Zerchers, i go back to low reps. I tried High Rep Zerchers and...never again. I love the Zercher squat (out of the rack. Never done a true Zercher off the floor). What happened when you did high reps? |
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scottiebeans Settling in pretty good Posts 85 |
06-05-20 09:48 AM - Post#898802
Today's T-Nation had an article "9 Exercises For A Complete Back". Nine back exercises and not one was a deadlift. It's like they've become the Planet Fitness of strength. So sad.
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Browser IOL rocks! Posts 507
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06-05-20 09:51 AM - Post#898803
I've posted here questioning if deadlifts were worth it for me. No matter how low I keep the reps, I will tweak my back and have to take a few weeks off and start over at a low weight. For a while I thought I had solved the issue by pulling nothing but singles (and doing my damndest to get tight and pull without flexion in the back) but it still managed to tweak it. Then I went to singles deadlifts off blocks (only a 3-4 inches off the ground) and still got a tweak. When I go back to a proper gym, I'm going to do just trap bar deadlifts with the elevated handle. For a 47 y/o with long femurs that doesn't compete in powerlifting and has a history of tweaking his back, I don't think the deadlift is for me. Man, we sound very similar. I have always hated deadlifts. But I looooove squatting and benching. There is nothing worse than having a cycle going well only to wake up one morning with a knackered lower back. Well there is one thing worse...to be in the top 3 after squat and bench only to end up 7th or 8th because your deadlift sucks. There is one big squatter and bencher in my fed who only pulls heavy at meets and doesn't even really train deadlifts. I am seriously thinking of trying this.
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Kiwi5 At home here Posts 264 |
06-06-20 12:11 AM - Post#898817
I had not read "Super Squats", so for my first session of 20 reps, I went with the Zercher- almost impossible to breathe, biceps were sore for days.. "Super Squats" recommend back squats for high reps, I found out the hard way! I keep my Zerchers in the 2-5 rep range. |
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BChase Old hand here on IOL Posts 854 |
06-06-20 08:28 AM - Post#898824
That's thinking outside the box! Zerchers for sets of 20? One time, I did a set of 20 with double 55 lb. kettlebells just to get out of my comfort zone. As you might have expected, the rhomboids gave out before the legs. The only safe way to do the program is with it on your back. Has any. done GOMAD while doing Super Squats? |
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Adam S IOL rocks! Posts 629
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06-06-20 11:30 AM - Post#898828
I didn't drink any milk while on the program, but did gain some weight. I would not want to stand behind someone who is drinking a gallon of milk a day while they attempt a heavy set of 20 squats.
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Kiwi5 At home here Posts 264 |
06-06-20 09:13 PM - Post#898839
I find the RDL a very good alternative to the standard DL. I never push it, but it really hammers home the hinge. And, another great lift that transfers to my job where we lift all sorts of gear, carpets, furniture...etc. |
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Jordan D Old hand here on IOL Posts 771
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06-07-20 08:29 AM - Post#898847
I have a long torso and a history of back problems. Conventional deadlifts are mostly fine, at submax weights and with a belt. RDLs, however, are not a training movement for me at all. They’re the active pursuit of injury. Just seeing those three letters makes me cringe. |
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Kiwi5 At home here Posts 264 |
06-07-20 06:04 PM - Post#898856
Interesting, RDLs must surely fall under the same 'rules' as most classic lifts. Exceed capabilities...potential for injury increases. Took me a few weeks to find my groove but they feel great now. Very good transfer to our work as I mentioned. |
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iPood Grand Pooh-Bah Posts 2360 |
06-08-20 01:23 AM - Post#898871
Interesting, RDLs must surely fall under the same 'rules' as most classic lifts. Exceed capabilities...potential for injury increases. Took me a few weeks to find my groove but they feel great now. Very good transfer to our work as I mentioned. The only downside to doing RDLs is the severe muscle soreness that can last a couple of days. I love it!
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Kiwi5 At home here Posts 264 |
06-08-20 05:03 PM - Post#898906
I'm shifting to using my trap bar for RDls and rows as part of the mandatory variety thing, light weights, and moderate rep range- Dan John mentions 8 reps in some of his programmes. So I'll try that. I'm really enjoying moving away from 5's and under. Plus....lovin' 'the swole'. |
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AAnnunz Uncle Al Posts 24932
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06-09-20 09:18 AM - Post#898944
Interesting, RDLs must surely fall under the same 'rules' as most classic lifts. Exceed capabilities...potential for injury increases. Took me a few weeks to find my groove but they feel great now. Very good transfer to our work as I mentioned. I'm with Jordan on this one. I can pull double bodyweight off the floor for 10+ reps with no fear of injury, but when I do the same number of RDLs with just my bodyweight on the bar, I get paranoid because I know even a slight break in form could tweak my lumbars. First it was good mornings, then stiff legs, and now RDLs. Old age sucks.
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iPood Grand Pooh-Bah Posts 2360 |
06-09-20 11:07 AM - Post#898952
I'm with Jordan on this one. I can pull double bodyweight off the floor for 10+ reps with no fear of injury, but when I do the same number of RDLs with just my bodyweight on the bar, I get paranoid because I know even a slight break in form could tweak my lumbars. First it was good mornings, then stiff legs, and now RDLs. Old age sucks. Does that happen doing KB swings?
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AAnnunz Uncle Al Posts 24932
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06-09-20 12:10 PM - Post#898955
I'm with Jordan on this one. I can pull double bodyweight off the floor for 10+ reps with no fear of injury, but when I do the same number of RDLs with just my bodyweight on the bar, I get paranoid because I know even a slight break in form could tweak my lumbars. First it was good mornings, then stiff legs, and now RDLs. Old age sucks. Does that happen doing KB swings? Only if my back is already trashed from something I'd done a day or two before or my arthritis is flaring up.
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iPood Grand Pooh-Bah Posts 2360 |
06-09-20 12:18 PM - Post#898956
Only if my back is already trashed from something I'd done a day or two before or my arthritis is flaring up. So it's not a flexibility issue. Hmmmm... Anyway, deadlifts are awesome.
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BChase Old hand here on IOL Posts 854 |
06-09-20 01:05 PM - Post#898957
Only if my back is already trashed from something I'd done a day or two before or my arthritis is flaring up. So it's not a flexibility issue. Hmmmm... Anyway, deadlifts are awesome. What about pistols? |
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iPood Grand Pooh-Bah Posts 2360 |
06-09-20 01:08 PM - Post#898958
What about pistols? 
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Ricky01 Old hand here on IOL Posts 709 |
06-09-20 04:29 PM - Post#898960
I'm not a fan of pistols - loaded flexion of the spine eith a balance component. I like that I can do them, but after managing I started asking why?! Anyway, off topic, sorry. Richard |
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AAnnunz Uncle Al Posts 24932
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06-10-20 08:37 AM - Post#898985
Only if my back is already trashed from something I'd done a day or two before or my arthritis is flaring up. So it's not a flexibility issue. Hmmmm... Anyway, deadlifts are awesome. What about pistols? Glock 17 for home defense. Smith & Wesson M&P for concealed carry.
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DanMartin Shomer Shabbos Posts 20705
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06-10-20 09:01 AM - Post#898986
The change in my "hinge" work over the years has been interesting. First it was deadlifts, then power cleans, then deadlifts and power cleans. Now it is swings. Are my hips, thighs and lower back as strong as when I was doing just deadlifts and power cleans? Hardly. But I'm moving good and my chronic back pain, well, it seems to be okay with swings.
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BrianBinVA Carpal tunnel from posting! Posts 5140
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06-10-20 09:27 AM - Post#898990
Only if my back is already trashed from something I'd done a day or two before or my arthritis is flaring up. So it's not a flexibility issue. Hmmmm... Anyway, deadlifts are awesome. What about pistols? Glock 17 for home defense. Smith & Wesson M&P for concealed carry. Nice choices, Al. I've always thought that the 17/19 is about all the handgun anyone needs, ammo is available anywhere, and they are great for beginners through experts. I've got a 19, myself. I've also got a long-running soft spot for the S&W 686/66, although that is not nearly as good a choice as one of the Glocks for most people. And any snubbie S&W .38 for concealed carry. Not that I can do that since I left the Commonwealth to move to DC, but still... |
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Kiwi5 At home here Posts 264 |
06-10-20 12:34 PM - Post#898996
I had to sell my handguns when Jacinda and her mob decided to punish all NZ sport shooters..oh well at least we can still go hunting. |
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Old Miler Grand Pooh-Bah Posts 1744 |
06-10-20 02:35 PM - Post#899000
I had to sell my handguns when Jacinda and her mob decided to punish all NZ sport shooters..oh well at least we can still go hunting. Home Defence doesn't usually occur to us as necessary in the UK, the worst risks here usually being double-glazing salesmen. But I have a tourist-trash Samurai Sword set (fake, no real edge) bought in Japan 35 years ago and if ever I have to confront a burglar in the night then I reckon that will scare the pants off them....and beheading or bludgeoning is more of a full-body, compound movement than just shooting someone...has to be good, right? |
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Kiwi5 At home here Posts 264 |
06-10-20 05:05 PM - Post#899005
In NZ, firearms can only be used for sporting purposes, self defense use is verboten! But my 8kg club bell....sledgehammer... |
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Steve Rogers Carpal tunnel from posting! Posts 6158 
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06-10-20 05:46 PM - Post#899008
I had to sell my handguns when Jacinda and her mob decided to punish all NZ sport shooters..oh well at least we can still go hunting. Home Defence doesn't usually occur to us as necessary in the UK, the worst risks here usually being double-glazing salesmen. But I have a tourist-trash Samurai Sword set (fake, no real edge) bought in Japan 35 years ago and if ever I have to confront a burglar in the night then I reckon that will scare the pants off them....and beheading or bludgeoning is more of a full-body, compound movement than just shooting someone...has to be good, right? Home defense isn't often needed in the USA either but it's best to be prepared. I don't currently have any firearms either but do have a nice collection of knives, swords, and staves which would do in a pinch. (Gibbs' Rule #9: Never go anywhere without a knife.) However, with the epidemic of unrest spreading around the world firearms are becoming more attractive. Taking out an intruder with one of these would doubtless be a more full body compound movement than shooting them, but what if it isn't a single attacker but a gang of rioters? A firearm would increase chances of success.
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Neander Carpal tunnel from posting! Posts 7755
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06-10-20 06:35 PM - Post#899009
Old age sucks. It's all downhill . . . But still, it's fun to figure out how to roll with the punches.
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Neander Carpal tunnel from posting! Posts 7755
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06-11-20 12:33 AM - Post#899021
Side arm curl.
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AAnnunz Uncle Al Posts 24932
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06-11-20 08:45 AM - Post#899034
Side arm curl. Specificity reigns, of course, but I highly recommend 12, 22, and 44 beer mug curls for overload in the off season.
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vegpedlr Old hand here on IOL Posts 1179
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06-11-20 12:28 PM - Post#899050
Specificity reigns, of course, but I highly recommend 12, 22, and 44 beer mug curls for overload in the off season. I stick to the 16, and progressi the volume by adding reps. |
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