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MrDave100
Getting the hang of it
Posts 35
MrDave100 		05-16-20 10:57 AM - Post#898115    

I'm getting ready to try MMS next month and I've been browsing through the workouts and the addendum on complexes to ensure I have everything I need or know what to do. My question is what's the difference between a Clean and a Power Clean? Thanks for answering in advance.

BTW Dan, I read the other day where some internet keyboard jockey said the "Everyone knows that Goblet Squats are done barefoot." I didn't know that and as the inventor of the exercise, you probably didn't either. You're welcome!!
iPood
Grand Pooh-Bah
Posts 2360
iPood 		05-16-20 11:12 AM - Post#898118    

Power clean vs. Clean:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cTzN6gPnme0

In short: doing power cleans, you catch the bar at the quarter squat position (that's the lowest you can go).

Doing full cleans you can catch the bar doing a deep front squat if necessary.

My favorite? Doing a power clean using the least amount of knee flexion, brief pause, then a deep breath followed by an ass to grass front squat.
"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness
and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums.
It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable.
Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow.
Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't."
Dan Martin

MrDave100
Getting the hang of it
Posts 35
MrDave100 		05-16-20 12:11 PM - Post#898123    

Okay, so this is what I should strive for?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKRiW9Yt3Ps

Thanks iPood.
iPood
Grand Pooh-Bah
Posts 2360
iPood 		05-16-20 01:30 PM - Post#898127    

  • MrDave100 Said:
Okay, so this is what I should strive for?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKRiW9Yt3Ps

Thanks iPood.



My personal recommendation would be this:

- Learn to power clean from the hang position.

- When you are comfortable doing hang power cleans, do them from the floor.

- And once you have spent enough time doing power cleans, try the full clean.

You can also do high pulls from the floor between the hang power clean and the power clean phase.

And you can test the waters doing hang full cleans between power cleans and full cleans.
"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness
and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums.
It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable.
Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow.
Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't."
Dan Martin

Justin Jordan
Old hand here on IOL
Posts 854
Justin Jordan 		05-16-20 01:58 PM - Post#898128    

As part of that complex, it actually probably doesn't matter - you've got to then press the weight overhead, so the weight is going to be fairly light for a clean.

You COULD do a full squat clean for this, but there's no real point. That said, doing a squat clean is not (for most people) an intuitive way to do the exercise. The power clean is probably the default setting for non olympic lifters.

What you may be asking is whether to do a power clear (from the floor) versus a hang clean (from above the knees).
Justin Jordan
Old hand here on IOL
Posts 854
Justin Jordan 		05-16-20 02:00 PM - Post#898129    

(Well, I say then press - there's front squats in between, working from memory, but the point is that of all the exercises that comprise the complex, the press is likely to be the one deciding the weight for most people. Not me, oddly, but most people.)
MrDave100
Getting the hang of it
Posts 35
MrDave100 		05-16-20 08:28 PM - Post#898134    

Thanks for the responses, the hang power clean appears the way to go until I get stronger and better skilled at Cleans.
DanMartin
Shomer Shabbos
Posts 20705
DanMartin 		05-17-20 10:35 AM - Post#898146    

  • MrDave100 Said:
Thanks for the responses, the hang power clean appears the way to go until I get stronger and better skilled at Cleans.



Excellent!
Mark it Zero.

Brian Hassler
IOL rocks!
Posts 616
Brian Hassler 		05-17-20 11:05 AM - Post#898150    





  • iPood Said:

In short: doing power cleans, you catch the bar at the quarter squat position (that's the lowest you can go).

Doing full cleans you can catch the bar doing a deep front squat if necessary.




That's a funny way to word it, as if there are universal rules about what people "can" do, or it's not a real Power Clean. I think the power clean is just a way for people to do cleans without the technical requirements of competition or using super heavy weights. Crossfit has to have rules about everything, because Crossfit.

The Crossfit guys seem to be doing mostly a power clean with a slow-ish deadlift on the front and a squat on the end. They seem to catch the bar in a power clean position and then deliberately drop into a squat, as opposed to the competition guys who are squatting all the way to get under a heavy bar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HyWjAk7fhY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=md7Qj-5QxTY

As far as hang cleans, I'm reminded that Dan will often have people deadlift from two inches below the knee, so rather than starting from an inch or two above the knee, it might be beneficial to start below the knee to get some extra juice in the hinge movement.

Dan John
Carpal tunnel from posting!
Posts 12292
Dan John 		05-17-20 12:47 PM - Post#898155    

One is allowed to do Goblet Squats (original post) with anything or nothing on the foot.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you

Justin Jordan
Old hand here on IOL
Posts 854
Justin Jordan 		05-17-20 01:19 PM - Post#898156    

  • Brian Hassler Said:






The Crossfit guys seem to be doing mostly a power clean with a slow-ish deadlift on the front and a squat on the end. They seem to catch the bar in a power clean position and then deliberately drop into a squat, as opposed to the competition guys who are squatting all the way to get under a heavy bar.






That's because Crossfitters are (often) doing cargo cult cleans. It's the appearance of a full clean without understanding what a full clean is meant to do.

Brian Hassler
IOL rocks!
Posts 616
Brian Hassler 		05-17-20 01:35 PM - Post#898157    

  • Dan John Said:
One is allowed to do Goblet Squats (original post) with anything or nothing on the foot.



I always do them with a combat boot on one foot, and nothing on the other. You know, to make it functional.
North
Getting the hang of it
Posts 34
North 		05-17-20 03:16 PM - Post#898159    

  • Dan John Said:
One is allowed to do Goblet Squats (original post) with anything or nothing on the foot.



But is is a real goblet squat?

Above question is asked tongue in cheek.
PatrickR
Settling in pretty good
Posts 90
PatrickR 		05-17-20 04:19 PM - Post#898161    

  • Brian Hassler Said:

I always do them with a combat boot on one foot, and nothing on the other. You know, to make it functional.



Is it only functional then? With two combat boots (one on each foot) and camo pants you could even make it a "tactical goblet squat".
Old Miler
Grand Pooh-Bah
Posts 1744
Old Miler 		05-17-20 06:09 PM - Post#898166    

  • PatrickR Said:
  • Brian Hassler Said:

I always do them with a combat boot on one foot, and nothing on the other. You know, to make it functional.



Is it only functional then? With two combat boots (one on each foot) and camo pants you could even make it a "tactical goblet squat".



Don't wash for a week, scream really loud as you brace your abs = Viking Goblet Squat.

Stark naked in the dark, no noise = Ninja Goblet Squat.
GeoffreyLevens
At home here
Posts 357
GeoffreyLevens 		05-18-20 11:08 AM - Post#898193    

  • Justin Jordan Said:
That's because Crossfitters are (often) doing cargo cult cleans. It's the appearance of a full clean without understanding what a full clean is meant to do.


I love that "cargo cult cleans". Perfect!
North
Getting the hang of it
Posts 34
North 		05-18-20 03:50 PM - Post#898206    

  • PatrickR Said:
  • Brian Hassler Said:

I always do them with a combat boot on one foot, and nothing on the other. You know, to make it functional.



Is it only functional then? With two combat boots (one on each foot) and camo pants you could even make it a "tactical goblet squat".



Very much appreciate the clarification regarding where the combat boots should be worn.
Pepper
At home here
Posts 296
Pepper 		05-21-20 03:48 PM - Post#898305    

  • Justin Jordan Said:

That's because Crossfitters are (often) doing cargo cult cleans. It's the appearance of a full clean without understanding what a full clean is meant to do.




Hi Justin, that is really interesting. Would you mind elaborating on this?
Justin Jordan
Old hand here on IOL
Posts 854
Justin Jordan 		05-21-20 08:36 PM - Post#898317    

  • Pepper Said:
  • Justin Jordan Said:

That's because Crossfitters are (often) doing cargo cult cleans. It's the appearance of a full clean without understanding what a full clean is meant to do.




Hi Justin, that is really interesting. Would you mind elaborating on this?



So in a full squat clean, the squat is there so that you don't have to lift the bar as high - it allows you clean more weight.

What you see in people who do Crossfit - not high level competitors - is this thing where they're essentially doing a power clean and then dropping into a squat.

This COULD be a power clean to front squat combo but in context it's clear a lot of them are doing in an attempt at a squat clean.

It seems like this is them getting the message that a clean is 'supposed' to end in a squat, but not really why this is so, and they end up kiiiiinda mimicking it.

So cargo cult, because there's a superficial understanding of what something looks like, but not why you do it.

Again, you won't see high level competitors doing this, but it's super common amongst regular people.
Leo M
At home here
Posts 357
Leo M 		05-22-20 09:24 AM - Post#898333    

Which, for my clients, I have no problem with them using that technique as practice to learning a squat clean; we did tons of reps like that in my O-lift cert.

But I agree with your larger point, the front squat (and overhead squat for the snatch) at some point become a necessity due to the load, rather than an attachment to the power versions of the lifts.

Leo
ATC Fitness

Dan John
Carpal tunnel from posting!
Posts 12292
Dan John 		05-22-20 11:04 AM - Post#898338    

Cargo Cult.

I love it...loved those books, too.

But: I am using this term.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you

DanMartin
Shomer Shabbos
Posts 20705
DanMartin 		05-22-20 11:42 AM - Post#898341    

Five "lifts" made a difference in my training life: Squat, Bench Press, Deadlift, Pull-Up and Power Clean.

The first four allowed me to finally gain strength and weight. The power clean tied it all together.
Mark it Zero.

iPood
Grand Pooh-Bah
Posts 2360
iPood 		05-22-20 12:43 PM - Post#898343    

  • DanMartin Said:
Five "lifts" made a difference in my training life: Squat, Bench Press, Deadlift, Pull-Up and Power Clean.

The first four allowed me to finally gain strength and weight. The power clean tied it all together.



I would add push press. Or, better still, power clean and push press.
"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness
and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums.
It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable.
Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow.
Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't."
Dan Martin

Justin Jordan
Old hand here on IOL
Posts 854
Justin Jordan 		05-22-20 02:05 PM - Post#898346    

  • Leo M Said:
Which, for my clients, I have no problem with them using that technique as practice to learning a squat clean; we did tons of reps like that in my O-lift cert.

But I agree with your larger point, the front squat (and overhead squat for the snatch) at some point become a necessity due to the load, rather than an attachment to the power versions of the lifts.

Leo




And I mean straight up - if you asked me to do a squat clean right now, I'd likely do the same thing. So I'm not knocking it - but I've seen people (via fitness youtube) do it for years.



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